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491 Posts
On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand.
Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter.
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On August 23 2012 23:15 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:12 zidaneshead wrote:
Now that I think about it more perhaps this could backfire on them. There's so much money in the foreign scene now and it seems like there's no desire on KeSPA's part to give it's players a piece of that pie except for maybe MLG. Moreover, there's a ton of new Korean players coming into the SC2 scene and unless KeSPA starts lifting some of their restrictions it might mean less interest from these new players in joining a KeSPA team, new players who could turn out to be stars in the future. You can be sure that right now MLG is not happy with KeSPA either.
Wasn't this to be expected? Look there were several people including myself giving guys like Sundance the warning signs and to make sure he has an ironclad deal.
They were never the easiest guys to deal with.
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On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter.
Yeah good luck on that.
You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights.
Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options.
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On August 23 2012 23:19 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:14 ragz_gt wrote:On August 23 2012 23:11 setzer wrote:On August 23 2012 23:04 boxman22 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:03 setzer wrote:On August 23 2012 22:42 boxman22 wrote:On August 23 2012 22:15 monkybone wrote:On August 23 2012 22:01 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 21:59 monkybone wrote:On August 23 2012 21:57 Condor Hero wrote:
[quote]
Use your brain.
All Kespa has is their players, who have enormous expectations.
Why the fuck would Kespa even risk losing the hype around its players if they thought they needed 1 more week or 1 more year??
Use your brain. How does that contradict what I said? You're saying Kespa not allowing it's players fucks up the GSL because some of the best players won't participate. I'm saying Kespa players aren't ready, despite kicking ass at WCS I'm sure everyone will agree the GSL players played like shit. That makes no sense at all. If they can beat them at WCS they can beat them in code A. Just glancing through day 1 of the open bracket, looking at some famous kespa player results: Wooki 0-2 고재흠 Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Only 1 kespa player, Flash, was able to beat a top Code B/Code A player. It's not as though Kespa players winning against GSL players is a common thing Recent, more relevant results, prove you wrong. Not in the slightest. None of those players played. Then maybe you should revise your statement and not say "kespa players aren't winning with regularity" when most KeSPA players are in GM league, beating notable GSL players, winning games in the ACTUAL WCS TOURNAMENT that wasn't played a month ago like thos statistics, and overall are regarded as equals by the GSL players. He meant TOP KeSPA player (the player actually have fame in Korea and are important as power play chips) are not transitioning as well. Lower level player can do as good as they do in WCS but it doesn't translate into bargain power for KeSPA, because there is no difference between them and people who already in GOM. Flying, Hoejja and Wookie are not top KeSPA BW players and have little to no fame. If his point was anything other than to say "KeSPA players are crap" he wouldn't have used month old statistics that hold no relevancy to today.
No I wasn't saying kespa players can't win, that is for sure. But I'm saying expecting ALL the kespa players to be at a Code A/Code S level is completely untrue. Probably 3 would get to code S, the other 4 in WCS would make Code A, maybe, and possibly 1 other Kespa player has gotten good enough to make Code A. There wouldn't be this MASSIVE influx of Kespa players or anything.
We have no other data to go on. Saying kespa players are GM means absolutely nothing. Have you heard of nightend lately?
Edit: Also since when are month old statistics unusable lol
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If the best players will play in their tournament what's the f*ing problem? Kespa knows what's best.
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http://www.gamechosun.co.kr/article/view.php?no=92017
협회 측에서 그래텍에 통보한 이유는 "선수들의 일정 조정이 어려운 상황"이었다. 비시즌이라고는 하지만 포스트시즌 일정도 있고, 현재 협회에서 준비중인 거대 프로젝트로 인해 쉽사리 선수들의 출전을 결정지을 수 없었다는 것이다.
"KeSPA told GOMTV: "It was difficult to adjust the player's schedules." Though the season will be over after this weekend, KeSPA needs to schedule Proleague post-season matches, along with the huge project that they are working on. Thus, they decided to not allow their players in participating this upcoming GSL"
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Clicked quote instead of edit -_-
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On August 23 2012 23:27 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:16 bo1b wrote:On August 23 2012 23:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Yeah, a couple of bad referee decisions in 10 years of tournaments (that's ten friggin' years for you) means the entire association is vile and rotten to the core. Clearly. You mean things like the free agent bullshit, the treatment of gom, the ridiculously stupid rules on not typing GG instead of ww/korean version are a good sign of the company? Keep in mind that those referee decisions happened in like 2008/2009 iirc, and I didn't watch bw before early 2007 so I can't comment earlier. Show me a single company of that scope, especially in a field as new and undeveloped as e-sports is / was that doesn't make similarly stupid mistakes now and then. Take your time, you might need to look for a while. Of course there are things that KeSPA could have done better. But the same can be said about GOM, Blizzard, MLG, Google, any corporate entity out there. The fact is, they brought us tons of amazing content - FREE - and created the most talented teams and players to have ever touched an RTS. What could have or should have happened in the past, and whether things could have been better or not is really a moot point. They are obviously interested in preserving their own interests, but you have to remember that KeSPA interests are 100% tied to e-sports and competitive Starcraft in particular. They invested so much into Starcraft infrastructure and teams, they can't just switch to LoL or call it quits, it's literally their lifeline. Whether the decisions they make are good or not remains to be seen, but it's not like they are out to 'hurt esports', and given the amount of experience they have with running e-sports show, if it came to a 'fight' between GOM and KeSPA, KeSPA really are the ones who can do it better, like it or not. GOM teams are still losing players left and right because they can't survive on what little crumbs they get for god's sake - don't you think that might be at least somewhat related to their management?
The point is that it shouldn't come to a fight between kespa and gom, and that kespa seems to be pushing one is whats bad. Keep in mind I did say that we should wait for kespa's announcement/project.
And please stop confusing gom and kespa, ones a broad casting station and the other is a conglomerate of teams.
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On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights.
they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact
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On August 23 2012 23:28 a9arnn wrote:
It's happening all over again :O
Definitely not. Blizzard will prevent it this time, i'm quite sure. I'd bet they sponsored most of the GSL's quite a bit so the GSL is something that's precious to them.
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Man, even though I don't believe more than 2or3 Kespa player would have a chance to qualify, it's still sad not to see them not be able to try it.
Seens kinda like the old east-west-coast-drama-thingy to me.
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On August 23 2012 23:27 MVTaylor wrote:
@Salazarz On my phone so I can't quote, message too large and no scroll ability in reply box.
The essence though is that it isn't kespa teams limiting themselves it's kespa denying players the right to enter to strengthen leagues they have more control over, all be it with some really awful reasoning given instead. GOM don't own their players and yet they still make every effort to reshuffle games and groups to allow players to go and compete in other tournaments. They have given done foreigners housing in Korea, seeded then directly in to leagues to give fans what they want while also providing great foreigner vs Korea moments such as the World Championship last year and the Blizzard Cup. Meanwhile in recent years the only similar thing from kespa was eight players going to an mlg only for none to attend the next one.
I can see we're never going to agree about this but I am all for supporting gom and the good will they have built up with the foreign community compared to paying a fiver to listen to doa and moletrap cast osl.
PS: While we're at it entry to every gom event is free so there is no difference there
Dude, you don't KNOW why KeSPA are doing what they are. The only thing we DO know is that KeSPA players are not playing at their 100% in SC2 yet, not even close to it, and they have PL playoffs just about to start, as well as the first ever SC2 OSL.
KeSPA never had 'great foreigner vs Korea' moments because, umm... well, I'm sure someone as knowledgeable about KeSPA as you are would know why. 'In recent years', KeSPA was the only organization in the world where BW was played seriously, and they still haven't even transitioned to SC2 fully. Seriously, what's so hard to understand about that? They still play Broodwar on top of SC2, they are still basically beginners in SC2. What's the big deal?
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Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL
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On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options.
KeSPA cannot make the same arguments towards IP rights on SC2 as they did for BW, that is certain. They have agreed to Blizzard's demands regarding IP rights, otherwise they wouldn't even be allowed to currently host anything SC2 related.
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On August 23 2012 23:31 supernovamaniac wrote:http://www.gamechosun.co.kr/article/view.php?no=92017협회 측에서 그래텍에 통보한 이유는 "선수들의 일정 조정이 어려운 상황"이었다. 비시즌이라고는 하지만 포스트시즌 일정도 있고, 현재 협회에서 준비중인 거대 프로젝트로 인해 쉽사리 선수들의 출전을 결정지을 수 없었다는 것이다. "KeSPA told GOMTV: "It was difficult to adjust the player's schedules." Though the season will be over after this weekend, KeSPA needs to schedule Proleague post-season matches, along with the huge project that they are working on. Thus, they decided to not allow their players in participating this upcoming GSL"
So in laymen terms:
"We know we promised to work together, and several of our players have expressed interest in participating in your league. But we now have our own plans so screw you. And no, you may not know what we planned yet."
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On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote:
First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact
Want to bet?
You should read my edit before.
Blizzard is relying on KeSPA. If they don't have KeSPA in Korea they'll get shunned and even if what you said were true SC2 would get even more buried because SC2 isn't the only title KeSPA has under it's library of games.
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More importantly, do people wish that blizzard could make them play?
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On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote:
Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL
No inferring that Kespa can't ban them from playing
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On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote:
Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL
The players want to play, all that needs to be done is "make" Kespa to allow the players to do what they want in this matter.
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EPT
