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On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote: Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL
I think people are saying that Blizz can make Kespa not stop them from playing. (Whether they actually play or not is next question).
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On August 23 2012 23:35 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:31 supernovamaniac wrote:http://www.gamechosun.co.kr/article/view.php?no=92017협회 측에서 그래텍에 통보한 이유는 "선수들의 일정 조정이 어려운 상황"이었다. 비시즌이라고는 하지만 포스트시즌 일정도 있고, 현재 협회에서 준비중인 거대 프로젝트로 인해 쉽사리 선수들의 출전을 결정지을 수 없었다는 것이다. "KeSPA told GOMTV: "It was difficult to adjust the player's schedules." Though the season will be over after this weekend, KeSPA needs to schedule Proleague post-season matches, along with the huge project that they are working on. Thus, they decided to not allow their players in participating this upcoming GSL" So in laymen terms: "We know we promised to work together, and several of our players have expressed interest in participating in your league. But we now have our own plans so screw you. And no, you may not know what we planned yet."
It's the same shit we've seen before with the GOM Classic. They don't want to stretch their players thin and they want more time for training.
As Violet said before he passed away. It's all about the wins.
They NEED to WIN.
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On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote: Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL I think what they're saying is Blizzard can make them NOT play. At all.
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On August 23 2012 23:36 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote: Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL The players want to play, all that needs to be done is "make" Kespa to allow the players to do what they want in this matter. Players follow the will of the team. The teams ARE KeSPA
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On August 23 2012 23:31 supernovamaniac wrote:http://www.gamechosun.co.kr/article/view.php?no=92017협회 측에서 그래텍에 통보한 이유는 "선수들의 일정 조정이 어려운 상황"이었다. 비시즌이라고는 하지만 포스트시즌 일정도 있고, 현재 협회에서 준비중인 거대 프로젝트로 인해 쉽사리 선수들의 출전을 결정지을 수 없었다는 것이다. "KeSPA told GOMTV: "It was difficult to adjust the player's schedules." Though the season will be over after this weekend, KeSPA needs to schedule Proleague post-season matches, along with the huge project that they are working on. Thus, they decided to not allow their players in participating this upcoming GSL"
Well that sounds familiar.
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On August 23 2012 23:35 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote: It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote: First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Want to bet? You should read my edit before. Blizzard is relying on KeSPA. If they don't have KeSPA in Korea they'll get shunned and even if what you said were true SC2 would get even more buried because SC2 isn't the only title KeSPA has under it's library of games. so what if KesPA doesnt paly sC2? they still have gom and the entire rest of thre freaking world
and since alot of the kroean feedback regarding this is negative theyve pretty much got Korea too
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Familiar and KESPA legit I guess :p.
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On August 23 2012 23:36 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote: Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL I think people are saying that Blizz can make Kespa not stop them from playing. (Whether they actually play or not is next question).
KeSPA are the teams. -__-
There is no player union. The player's don't have much of a say.
When the GOM Classic was running alongside the MSL/OSL/PL players did complain about being tired and teams did eventually drop out.
MSL is no longer around so OSL/PL should be no problem with the amount of games right?
KeSPA's always ran things like this.
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On August 23 2012 23:27 MVTaylor wrote: @Salazarz On my phone so I can't quote, message too large and no scroll ability in reply box.
The essence though is that it isn't kespa teams limiting themselves it's kespa denying players the right to enter to strengthen leagues they have more control over, all be it with some really awful reasoning given instead.
The problem with this line of reasoning is that it assumes that individual kespa players normally get to decide such things for themselves, and are suddenly being denied the right to do that. Whereas it's actually normal for the teams (and Kespa as the association of teams+broadcasters) to make such decisions, not the players.
A Kespa team simply won't tell a player to go do whatever he wants and play in any league he wants. That's NEVER going to happen. In order for Kespa players to be able to play in the GSL, the team has to come to the players and say "ok, GSL is now in our schedule, here's the schedule by which we're going to work the next month" or something of the sort.
I'm not saying that the Kespa's interests as a team association didn't play a role in the decision, but there are definitely more practical issues as well. The important thing to realize is that these players actually belong to the teams and the way they spend their time and what they spend it on is also organized by the teams.
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On August 23 2012 23:37 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:36 JustPassingBy wrote:On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote: Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL The players want to play, all that needs to be done is "make" Kespa to allow the players to do what they want in this matter. Players follow the will of the team. The teams ARE KeSPA
Maybe stuff like this is why Stork and Boxer wanted a player's union.
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On August 23 2012 23:24 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:21 Pimpmuckl wrote: So basically: GomTV lets their players play in the "KeSPA"-Tournaments. No problem here. But KeSPA doesn't allow their players to even try out for GSL? I have _no_ idea why the hell would anyone say this is even remoty "good". The BW Legends stepped up their game SO much and i would have loved to see them compete at a GSL format.
Fuck this shit, why the hell would KeSPA do that, i'm really getting mad now. Because everyone is going crazy for Kespa players and no one gives a shit about Gom players. It's really that simple. There's nowhere that follows SC2 that isn't going crazy for Kespa players in the past few months. The only way a Gom player gets mentioned is if he loses to a Kespa player. So why would they just hand them out? They are in huge demand, a competitor simply says "okay same game give us your players" what would anyone say to that?
Probably the dumbest post of the thread.
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Makes me wonder if they couldn't postpone the tournament for a week or two, so that mlg and spl could finish up.
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On August 23 2012 23:39 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:35 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote: It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote: First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Want to bet? You should read my edit before. Blizzard is relying on KeSPA. If they don't have KeSPA in Korea they'll get shunned and even if what you said were true SC2 would get even more buried because SC2 isn't the only title KeSPA has under it's library of games. so what if KesPA doesnt paly sC2? they still have gom and the entire rest of thre freaking world and since alot of the kroean feedback regarding this is negative theyve pretty much got Korea too
Nope.
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On August 23 2012 23:41 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:36 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote: Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL I think people are saying that Blizz can make Kespa not stop them from playing. (Whether they actually play or not is next question). KeSPA are the teams. -__- There is no player union. The player's don't have much of a say. When the GOM Classic was running alongside the MSL/OSL/PL players did complain about being tired and teams did eventually drop out. MSL is no longer around so OSL/PL should be no problem with the amount of games right? KeSPA's always ran things like this. Problem is that schedules are already set for this season. For next season of Proleague they can probably schedule it different so some ppl can do shit like MLG.
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On August 23 2012 23:41 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:36 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 23 2012 23:33 ShadeR wrote: Are people seriously inferring that Blizzard can MAKE them play??? LOL I think people are saying that Blizz can make Kespa not stop them from playing. (Whether they actually play or not is next question). KeSPA are the teams. -__- There is no player union. The player's don't have much of a say. When the GOM Classic was running alongside the MSL/OSL/PL players did complain about being tired and teams did eventually drop out. MSL is no longer around so OSL/PL should be no problem with the amount of games right? KeSPA's always ran things like this.
This is what's saddening that the players don't have a say nor do the team coaches.
KeSPA still able to dictate when and where players are able to go despite signing agreements with GOM and Blizzard to unify and grow the Esports brand.
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On August 23 2012 18:03 Noam wrote: KeSPA and OGN are not stupid, GOM is their competitor and they don't want to give them their greatest asset - the broodwar stars.
I fear the day where OSL and GSL are on at the same time and I'll need to decide which one to watch.
OSL will be free 720p (most likely?) with Moletrap & DoA and the best KeSPA and best GOM players. GSL will be free 240p with Tastosis and Wolfdor and the best GOM players.
Not an easy decision.
With Moletrap and DoA casting, I think it'll be much easier to choose GSL.
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opterown
Australia54649 Posts
On August 23 2012 23:42 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:39 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:35 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote: It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote: First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Want to bet? You should read my edit before. Blizzard is relying on KeSPA. If they don't have KeSPA in Korea they'll get shunned and even if what you said were true SC2 would get even more buried because SC2 isn't the only title KeSPA has under it's library of games. so what if KesPA doesnt paly sC2? they still have gom and the entire rest of thre freaking world and since alot of the kroean feedback regarding this is negative theyve pretty much got Korea too Nope. isn't the feedback on korean forums generally negative atm? even on pro-BW sites
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On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote: It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote: First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. Blizzard is counting on KeSPA to give the game more exposure in Korea. Their options are limited whereas KeSPA. Well, they have plenty of options. Blisard can deny them the right to run any tournament. Kespa can still do whatever BS they want, just without any broadcasting and such, and hence, zero profits.
On August 23 2012 23:31 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:29 StarStruck wrote:On August 23 2012 23:28 naastyOne wrote:On August 23 2012 23:23 StarStruck wrote:As if Blizzard should have a say on the matter. Here's the thing they need to understand and guys like MLG. KeSPA sticks to it's own schedule. They were up in arms about the GOM Classic prior as they thought it was too much with the PL/OSL/MSL. On August 23 2012 23:22 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote: It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Leta broke the rules, so Leta got DQ'd. It was a dumbass rule indeed but how was that worse than GSL taking Nani's Code S spot or backing out of their MLG obligations by changing the wording? Yeah, let's just nitpick at each individual thing we don't agree with. -_- On August 23 2012 23:22 TheButtonmen wrote: First MLG, now GSL.
I won't be watching OGN, I've got no desire to support Kespa if they are going back to their old isolastionic ways and there is plenty of competition for my eye balls. They want to continue being the Premiere League in Korea. They have the network and they want to push their brand. Considering everyone needs Blizard approval to run SC2 tournaments, Blizard kinda has a lot of weight, to throw in the metter. Yeah good luck on that. You've already seen what happened when Blizzard tried to argue the IP rights. they dont have to argue anything, if they press a button KeSPA cant paly SC2 thats a fact Not just that. Considering Korea is, supposed to take US IP pretty seriously, the entire idea that goverment institution can infringe copyright just like that, wwould do terrible damage to Korea`s international relations.
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This is, I think, why the great commander Stork talked a bit about player unions. Because under KeSPA's system, the players don't have the right to determine for themselves (nor do teams on players' behalf) what tournaments they enter and will play in. (I'm not sure even the eSports Federation has quite this kind of a lock on player actions.)
Unlike Gom, which just provides the tournament but does not control the teams or players, KeSPA owns the teams and the players and can make sweeping decisions for them, despite their wishes. Gom can say "We don't want this player or this team" in their tournament, but they can't say "This player will not be allowed to play in any tournament. Any tournament that lets this player into their bracket will never see MVP, DRG, MKP, Nestea, or MC in any of their tournaments ever." KeSPA, on the other hand, has that power because of how they are structured.
Whether or not the PLAYERS feel they are ready, KeSPA's decision on it (for whatever reason, legitimate or not) effectively prevents any of their players from doing so. It also prevents Flash or Jaedong from trying to get into NASL, IEM, HSC, IPL, etc. MLG is the only authorised foreign event they can go to, and that is also subject to KeSPA's decisions regarding scheduling or "readiness" to compete.
As far as GSL Season 4 goes, I wouldn't get too much up in arms. There are some reasons for making that decision. But going forward, it will be a little tougher to understand.
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On August 23 2012 23:41 DrakeFZX3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:24 floor exercise wrote:On August 23 2012 23:21 Pimpmuckl wrote: So basically: GomTV lets their players play in the "KeSPA"-Tournaments. No problem here. But KeSPA doesn't allow their players to even try out for GSL? I have _no_ idea why the hell would anyone say this is even remoty "good". The BW Legends stepped up their game SO much and i would have loved to see them compete at a GSL format.
Fuck this shit, why the hell would KeSPA do that, i'm really getting mad now. Because everyone is going crazy for Kespa players and no one gives a shit about Gom players. It's really that simple. There's nowhere that follows SC2 that isn't going crazy for Kespa players in the past few months. The only way a Gom player gets mentioned is if he loses to a Kespa player. So why would they just hand them out? They are in huge demand, a competitor simply says "okay same game give us your players" what would anyone say to that? Probably the dumbest post of the thread.
People do go ape shit for guys like MC, DRG, MKP with all the exposure they receive and wins.
At the last MLG with the KeSPA tournament people were pretty infatuated with the new kids on the block and when given the stage you could see a difference between your run of the mill Korean and them. They're performers. They understand that and likewise they give the crowd what they want.
This is nothing really new to them either.
Other than that yeah what floor said is really off the mark lol.
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