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On August 23 2012 23:12 zidaneshead wrote:
Now that I think about it more perhaps this could backfire on them. There's so much money in the foreign scene now and it seems like there's no desire on KeSPA's part to give it's players a piece of that pie except for maybe MLG. Moreover, there's a ton of new Korean players coming into the SC2 scene and unless KeSPA starts lifting some of their restrictions it might mean less interest from these new players in joining a KeSPA team, new players who could turn out to be stars in the future.
You can be sure that right now MLG is not happy with KeSPA either.
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On August 23 2012 23:08 Empirimancer wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:06 nokz88 wrote:
Somehow, someway KeSPA gets more support and less flak in TeamLiquid, a foreign forum, than in Korea itself. Go figure.
It doesn't get shadier than this folks. Why are some of you defending this asshole move? Kespa is a Korean organization. Korean means good. Therefore Kespa is a good organization. It's koreophilia.
What? where are those people? Anyone who has been around since BW days knows better.
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On August 23 2012 23:12 zidaneshead wrote:
Now that I think about it more perhaps this could backfire on them. There's so much money in the foreign scene now and it seems like there's no desire on KeSPA's part to give it's players a piece of that pie except for maybe MLG. Moreover, there's a ton of new Korean players coming into the SC2 scene and unless KeSPA starts lifting some of their restrictions it might mean less interest from these new players in joining a KeSPA team, new players who could turn out to be stars in the future.
Yes, this. I really hope the GSL stays the best league and hope that the current SC2 teams remain relevant. Because of the exclusive partnership with the MLG the Kespa koreans can't even go to any foreign tournament besides the MLG, which is hilarious.
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On August 23 2012 23:14 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:04 Saechiis wrote:On August 23 2012 22:47 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 22:41 achan1058 wrote:On August 23 2012 22:40 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 22:36 achan1058 wrote:On August 23 2012 22:35 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 22:16 Rustug wrote:On August 23 2012 21:57 floor exercise wrote:On August 23 2012 21:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:
[quote]
true, but really I need to know why KeSPA declined its teams from participating I'm sure its not something unreasonable, They've pulled crazy shit before but this is completely random. It all comes down to money. Kespa players are hot commodities, they would certainly increase viewership of gom domestically and around the world. That means more money for Gom, and for what, using another organisations players that they have built and supported for a decade. It's easy for Gom to appeal to the fans and cry victim like this, but we really don't know the arrangement or if Kespa is expected to just hand over their stars, which is their only real valuable asset, for nothing Domestically yes, internationally it's already doing pretty good. This is a domestic "turf war", can't tell who's the good guy and who is the bad guy. But IMO if Blizzard doesn't step in quick, it will be bad for SC in Korea as a whole. Yes, Blizzard, the company that won't even make LAN mode for tournaments is going to try to step in? I think they would be out of their depths. Yes, they created the game and has the license for it, but they don't know the e-sports scene in Korea. Actually, the lack of LAN is why they could step in. Imagine OSL finals, Flash vs MVP say. After the 1st game, Flash's account was suddenly banned. Really? You think Blizzard would risk the entire Korean market by pulling a stunt like that? Look, some of us hardcore SC2 fans might get upset because Kespa players won't be playing in GSL this season. But let's face it, we are a small minority. Blizzard would be stupid to try to step in like this. I would think they would want to step in, though not in the manner I described. They don't want KeSPA to get too much power, since it takes away power from them. They don't have many options anyway. The two things they can do is come up with some slap-on-the-wrist PR statement or deny Kespa the right to run SC2 tournaments. Nobody would care about the former, and they would be digging their own grave as far as Korean market is concerned with the latter. It's mind boggling that GOM (and possibly Blizzard) basically want to pressure the teams to have players compete in their tournaments. Well it's not mind boggling, it's understandable from a business / power play perspective, but that is much more of a dick move than Kespa teams simply deciding that they can't fit another individual league into their schedule at this point in time. "can't fit it into their schedule" is a PR way of saying "we're going to start our own league and keep the current players to ourselves". Why would you think this? It's pretty obvious to me that they can't actually fit Code A qualifiers and Code A into their schedule right now, in the middle of dual-game Proleague + OSL. They're already involved in WCS and WCG too. And obviously they're going to keep the players to "themselves", they employ all the players.
i find it hard to believe that they cant let each of there palyers play one game at gom every couple weeks
the GSL schedule is already so stretched out that it should be easy to plan around it
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http://esports.gamechosun.co.kr/
Err... apparently there's a big project in the works, and KeSPA doesn't want to pull their players out of the tournament mid-season.
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On August 23 2012 23:09 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Yeah, a couple of bad referee decisions in 10 years of tournaments (that's ten friggin' years for you) means the entire association is vile and rotten to the core. Clearly.
You mean things like the free agent bullshit, the treatment of gom, the ridiculously stupid rules on not typing GG instead of ww/korean version are a good sign of the company? Keep in mind that those referee decisions happened in like 2008/2009 iirc, and I didn't watch bw before early 2007 so I can't comment earlier.
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On August 23 2012 23:09 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:06 nokz88 wrote:
Somehow, someway KeSPA gets more support and less flak in TeamLiquid, a foreign forum, than in Korea itself. Go figure.
It doesn't get shadier than this folks. Why are some of you defending this asshole move? What's the reaction in the Korean community about this?
Major uproar going on in PlayXP and DCInside SC2 Gallery.
Dunno about PGR21 though, I can't view it with my blackberry. ;_;
Last time I checked Fomos, they're now full LoL so they don't give jackshit about SC2.
Most of them are just shouting ㅅㅂ 개스파/FUCKING DOGSPA
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I especially love GOM's "We're really disappointed that KESPA are being a bunch of assholes" press release. I haven't seen a business release a statement like in forever, and I think it's long overdue. And of course Blizzard is looking to get involved, they just signed a damn business agreement based on KESPA not being jerks. I wouldn't be surprised if something in the contract stated "KESPA and E-sports federation (or whatever they're called now) players will make their best efforts to play in each other's league systems." If KESPA is simply withdrawing, especially after the showing of some of their players in WCS Korea, then Blizzard is going to take one massive shit on someone's head.
I mean, of course GOM's pissed. MC, MVP, Nestea, and DRG are playing OGN league, only for KESPA to pull out at the last second? Shady ass shit man. Shady ass shit.
Oh, and I love the KESPA defenders that pop up in every thread, somehow surprised that KESPA is always getting flak. It's almost always stemming from their almost inhumane treatment of players. Always. Then the hate branches from there.
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On August 23 2012 23:14 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:11 setzer wrote:On August 23 2012 23:04 boxman22 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:03 setzer wrote:On August 23 2012 22:42 boxman22 wrote:On August 23 2012 22:15 monkybone wrote:On August 23 2012 22:01 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 21:59 monkybone wrote:On August 23 2012 21:57 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 21:49 monkybone wrote:
[quote]
No, GSL has always been about featuring the best players in the world. Kespa is destroying the integrity of the GSL with this behavior. Use your brain. All Kespa has is their players, who have enormous expectations. Why the fuck would Kespa even risk losing the hype around its players if they thought they needed 1 more week or 1 more year?? Use your brain. How does that contradict what I said? You're saying Kespa not allowing it's players fucks up the GSL because some of the best players won't participate. I'm saying Kespa players aren't ready, despite kicking ass at WCS I'm sure everyone will agree the GSL players played like shit. That makes no sense at all. If they can beat them at WCS they can beat them in code A. Just glancing through day 1 of the open bracket, looking at some famous kespa player results: Wooki 0-2 고재흠 Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Only 1 kespa player, Flash, was able to beat a top Code B/Code A player. It's not as though Kespa players winning against GSL players is a common thing Recent, more relevant results, prove you wrong. Not in the slightest. None of those players played. Then maybe you should revise your statement and not say "kespa players aren't winning with regularity" when most KeSPA players are in GM league, beating notable GSL players, winning games in the ACTUAL WCS TOURNAMENT that wasn't played a month ago like thos statistics, and overall are regarded as equals by the GSL players. He meant TOP KeSPA player (the player actually have fame in Korea and are important as power play chips) are not transitioning as well. Lower level player can do as good as they do in WCS but it doesn't translate into bargain power for KeSPA, because there is no difference between them and people who already in GOM.
Jaedong had a very strong showing in WCS.
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On August 23 2012 23:14 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:11 setzer wrote:On August 23 2012 23:04 boxman22 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:03 setzer wrote:On August 23 2012 22:42 boxman22 wrote:On August 23 2012 22:15 monkybone wrote:On August 23 2012 22:01 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 21:59 monkybone wrote:On August 23 2012 21:57 Condor Hero wrote:On August 23 2012 21:49 monkybone wrote:
[quote]
No, GSL has always been about featuring the best players in the world. Kespa is destroying the integrity of the GSL with this behavior. Use your brain. All Kespa has is their players, who have enormous expectations. Why the fuck would Kespa even risk losing the hype around its players if they thought they needed 1 more week or 1 more year?? Use your brain. How does that contradict what I said? You're saying Kespa not allowing it's players fucks up the GSL because some of the best players won't participate. I'm saying Kespa players aren't ready, despite kicking ass at WCS I'm sure everyone will agree the GSL players played like shit. That makes no sense at all. If they can beat them at WCS they can beat them in code A. Just glancing through day 1 of the open bracket, looking at some famous kespa player results: Wooki 0-2 고재흠 Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet Only 1 kespa player, Flash, was able to beat a top Code B/Code A player. It's not as though Kespa players winning against GSL players is a common thing Recent, more relevant results, prove you wrong. Not in the slightest. None of those players played. Then maybe you should revise your statement and not say "kespa players aren't winning with regularity" when most KeSPA players are in GM league, beating notable GSL players, winning games in the ACTUAL WCS TOURNAMENT that wasn't played a month ago like thos statistics, and overall are regarded as equals by the GSL players. He meant TOP KeSPA player (the player actually have fame in Korea and are important as power play chips) are not transitioning as well. Lower level player can do as good as they do in WCS but it doesn't translate into bargain power for KeSPA, because there is no difference between them and people who already in GOM.
Flying, Hoejja and Wookie are not top KeSPA BW players and have little to no fame. If his point was anything other than to say "KeSPA players are crap" he wouldn't have used month old statistics that hold no relevancy to today.
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On August 23 2012 23:16 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:09 Salazarz wrote:On August 23 2012 23:08 bo1b wrote:
It's actually mind boggling how far people are going to defend kespa as some sort of good guy, anyone remember leta getting dq'd?
Having said that people jumping the gun before any real information has been released is equally questionable. Yeah, a couple of bad referee decisions in 10 years of tournaments (that's ten friggin' years for you) means the entire association is vile and rotten to the core. Clearly. You mean things like the free agent bullshit, the treatment of gom, the ridiculously stupid rules on not typing GG instead of ww/korean version are a good sign of the company? Keep in mind that those referee decisions happened in like 2008/2009 iirc, and I didn't watch bw before early 2007 so I can't comment earlier.
Exactly those those things.... They messed up and then rectified mistakes... and did not let them happen again.. Sounds like what a good organisation does.... except the GOM part thats just LOLOLOL
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Go Blizzard Go!! Show Kespa who's boss.
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Are kespa players now playing in SC2 tournaments?
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On August 23 2012 23:04 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 22:47 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 22:41 achan1058 wrote:On August 23 2012 22:40 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 22:36 achan1058 wrote:On August 23 2012 22:35 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 22:16 Rustug wrote:On August 23 2012 21:57 floor exercise wrote:On August 23 2012 21:54 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 23 2012 21:49 monkybone wrote:
[quote]
No, GSL has always been about featuring the best players in the world. Kespa is destroying the integrity of the GSL with this behavior. true, but really I need to know why KeSPA declined its teams from participating I'm sure its not something unreasonable, They've pulled crazy shit before but this is completely random. It all comes down to money. Kespa players are hot commodities, they would certainly increase viewership of gom domestically and around the world. That means more money for Gom, and for what, using another organisations players that they have built and supported for a decade. It's easy for Gom to appeal to the fans and cry victim like this, but we really don't know the arrangement or if Kespa is expected to just hand over their stars, which is their only real valuable asset, for nothing Domestically yes, internationally it's already doing pretty good. This is a domestic "turf war", can't tell who's the good guy and who is the bad guy. But IMO if Blizzard doesn't step in quick, it will be bad for SC in Korea as a whole. Yes, Blizzard, the company that won't even make LAN mode for tournaments is going to try to step in? I think they would be out of their depths. Yes, they created the game and has the license for it, but they don't know the e-sports scene in Korea. Actually, the lack of LAN is why they could step in. Imagine OSL finals, Flash vs MVP say. After the 1st game, Flash's account was suddenly banned. Really? You think Blizzard would risk the entire Korean market by pulling a stunt like that? Look, some of us hardcore SC2 fans might get upset because Kespa players won't be playing in GSL this season. But let's face it, we are a small minority. Blizzard would be stupid to try to step in like this. I would think they would want to step in, though not in the manner I described. They don't want KeSPA to get too much power, since it takes away power from them. They don't have many options anyway. The two things they can do is come up with some slap-on-the-wrist PR statement or deny Kespa the right to run SC2 tournaments. Nobody would care about the former, and they would be digging their own grave as far as Korean market is concerned with the latter. It's mind boggling that GOM (and possibly Blizzard) basically want to pressure the teams to have players compete in their tournaments. Well it's not mind boggling, it's understandable from a business / power play perspective, but that is much more of a dick move than Kespa teams simply deciding that they can't fit another individual league into their schedule at this point in time. "can't fit it into their schedule" is a PR way of saying "we're going to start our own league and keep the current players to ourselves". To me it seems like it's KeSPa backing out on agreements here, trying to get the same monopoly they had in BW by denying Blizzard ownership and blocking GOM by witholding their players from non-KeSPa league participation. It's only logical for GOM and Blizzard to frown upon such a selfish goal, especially since it isn't in the players' best interest at all, nor the fans' for that matter.
But MSL/OSL were the other two individual leagues and were around for far longer than GOMTV.
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opterown
Australia54749 Posts
On August 23 2012 23:16 supernovamaniac wrote:http://esports.gamechosun.co.kr/ Err... apparently there's a big project in the works, and KeSPA doesn't want to pull their players out of the tournament mid-season.
well this is interesting. wonder what it is?
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So basically:
GomTV lets their players play in the "KeSPA"-Tournaments. No problem here.
But KeSPA doesn't allow their players to even try out for GSL? I have _no_ idea why the hell would anyone say this is even remoty "good". The BW Legends stepped up their game SO much and i would have loved to see them compete at a GSL format.
Fuck this shit, why the hell would KeSPA do that, i'm really getting mad now.
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On August 23 2012 23:16 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:09 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 23 2012 23:06 nokz88 wrote:
Somehow, someway KeSPA gets more support and less flak in TeamLiquid, a foreign forum, than in Korea itself. Go figure.
It doesn't get shadier than this folks. Why are some of you defending this asshole move? What's the reaction in the Korean community about this? Major uproar going on in PlayXP and DCInside SC2 Gallery. Dunno about PGR21 though, I can't view it with my blackberry. ;_; Last time I checked Fomos, they're now full LoL so they don't give jackshit about SC2. Most of them are just shouting ㅅㅂ 개스파/FUCKING DOGSPA
Thanks! 
I know scredditors are pretty upset about this too.
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On August 23 2012 23:19 Mauldo wrote:
I especially love GOM's "We're really disappointed that KESPA are being a bunch of assholes" press release. I haven't seen a business release a statement like in forever, and I think it's long overdue. And of course Blizzard is looking to get involved, they just signed a damn business agreement based on KESPA not being jerks. I wouldn't be surprised if something in the contract stated "KESPA and E-sports federation (or whatever they're called now) players will make their best efforts to play in each other's league systems." If KESPA is simply withdrawing, especially after the showing of some of their players in WCS Korea, then Blizzard is going to take one massive shit on someone's head.
I mean, of course GOM's pissed. MC, MVP, Nestea, and DRG are playing OGN league, only for KESPA to pull out at the last second? Shady ass shit man. Shady ass shit.
Oh, and I love the KESPA defenders that pop up in every thread, somehow surprised that KESPA is always getting flak. It's almost always stemming from their almost inhumane treatment of players. Always. Then the hate branches from there.
I'll never forget that reckrul blog on how badly players are treated in kespa team houses. People seem to think that because people like flash get paid a huge amount that everyone gets paid equally, and that makes it okay for a training partner to practice like 14 hours a day and then do the dishes.
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On August 23 2012 23:16 supernovamaniac wrote:http://esports.gamechosun.co.kr/ Err... apparently there's a big project in the works, and KeSPA doesn't want to pull their players out of the tournament mid-season.
What does that mean... so they are building their league and don't want their player to participate in other league in the mean time? Their player can participate in GSL only when OSL is not doing something or planning something or thinking of planning something? What's the difference.
Unless they are sending players to a secret base for 2 months for this "big project", how does that interfere with GSL?
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On August 23 2012 23:16 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:14 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 23:04 Saechiis wrote:On August 23 2012 22:47 Talin wrote:On August 23 2012 22:41 achan1058 wrote:On August 23 2012 22:40 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 22:36 achan1058 wrote:On August 23 2012 22:35 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 22:16 Rustug wrote:On August 23 2012 21:57 floor exercise wrote:
[quote]
It all comes down to money. Kespa players are hot commodities, they would certainly increase viewership of gom domestically and around the world. That means more money for Gom, and for what, using another organisations players that they have built and supported for a decade.
It's easy for Gom to appeal to the fans and cry victim like this, but we really don't know the arrangement or if Kespa is expected to just hand over their stars, which is their only real valuable asset, for nothing Domestically yes, internationally it's already doing pretty good. This is a domestic "turf war", can't tell who's the good guy and who is the bad guy. But IMO if Blizzard doesn't step in quick, it will be bad for SC in Korea as a whole. Yes, Blizzard, the company that won't even make LAN mode for tournaments is going to try to step in? I think they would be out of their depths. Yes, they created the game and has the license for it, but they don't know the e-sports scene in Korea. Actually, the lack of LAN is why they could step in. Imagine OSL finals, Flash vs MVP say. After the 1st game, Flash's account was suddenly banned. Really? You think Blizzard would risk the entire Korean market by pulling a stunt like that? Look, some of us hardcore SC2 fans might get upset because Kespa players won't be playing in GSL this season. But let's face it, we are a small minority. Blizzard would be stupid to try to step in like this. I would think they would want to step in, though not in the manner I described. They don't want KeSPA to get too much power, since it takes away power from them. They don't have many options anyway. The two things they can do is come up with some slap-on-the-wrist PR statement or deny Kespa the right to run SC2 tournaments. Nobody would care about the former, and they would be digging their own grave as far as Korean market is concerned with the latter. It's mind boggling that GOM (and possibly Blizzard) basically want to pressure the teams to have players compete in their tournaments. Well it's not mind boggling, it's understandable from a business / power play perspective, but that is much more of a dick move than Kespa teams simply deciding that they can't fit another individual league into their schedule at this point in time. "can't fit it into their schedule" is a PR way of saying "we're going to start our own league and keep the current players to ourselves". Why would you think this? It's pretty obvious to me that they can't actually fit Code A qualifiers and Code A into their schedule right now, in the middle of dual-game Proleague + OSL. They're already involved in WCS and WCG too. And obviously they're going to keep the players to "themselves", they employ all the players. i find it hard to believe that they cant let each of there palyers play one game at gom every couple weeks the GSL schedule is already so stretched out that it should be easy to plan around it
It's not just showing up and playing. No progamer is just going to show up on the matchday and play without intensive preparation - being destroyed like that would hurt their image, their team's image, it would disappoint the fans, it would be disappointing even for the regular GSL viewers.
If a player commits to an individual league (and qualifies), he HAS to spend a shitload of time preparing to at least play competitively and show good games. During that time he won't be able to help his teammates, his mindset wouldn't be on Proleague, and obviously the sheer amount of time would be devoted elsewhere.
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