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On August 23 2012 03:31 OrbitalPlane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 03:17 Xeris wrote:On August 23 2012 03:15 OrbitalPlane wrote:On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote:
Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way." These are two different points. First one i specially say its not their fault. Why would they turn such an offer down? You know there are ppl like Jinro who turn down their Coda A invitation because they think they are not good enough. In my opinion that's not the players problem to think about how fair the inviteing process is. Exactly that's the reason why i emphasised it's NOT their fault. Second one. I don't say these players should not be invited. If they use the methode you explained then i say i don't like the methode MLG uses to invite the players. This is not directed towards the players and i don't see how it insults them. If those players would be idra, incontrol etc i would ask the same questions and i would also say that i don't like the methode MLG used. I don't see how the players could be personal offended by my words.
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena
Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
I think i stated that in every single last post i made. I think the best option would have been to give more seeds to the highest finisher in the open bracket. If the now invited players are good enough they will qualify through the open bracket and gain their seed that way. But there are also some other solutions that were at least better than the current one. I'm sure they invited places 17-32 in the arena before inviting binski and Caliber.... most likely people in 17-32 turned it down because... shocker ... it's expensive to go to an MLG. did you read my post? i didn't use the word ARENA i used the word OPEN BRACKET. this will be my last post on this matter btw. Seems like i wasted my time there. Nobody cares here anyway. On a side note: You know i won't be happy if those players get slaughtered 0:5 in their group. I am always happy if foreigners/underdogs take game of koreans. But a lot of ppl will then say that their invites were not justified. If they qualify through the open bracket they at least achieve that. Even if they get slaughted after that they already achieved something! I think the way it is now these games won't be on the main stage and they will get less exposure than they would if they qualified for it. You will see hero TaeJa on the stage. The local scene doesn't get a lot of attention. Did you know that Socke the guy who had several amazing runs at MLG (e.g being the only player defeating DRG and being one game away from beeing first in his group in one of the last MLG) didn't had a single stage match yet? But this is a different topic. And you could also argue about how much sense it makes to have 2 tournaments at the same time...
You have the group play format completely wrong.
There is already eight "OPEN BRACKET" players that enter the group stage. The only way you could increase this without making it messy and dumb is to make it 16 which would be a logistical mess.
You can't go "0:5" in a group because each group is a double elimination bracket.
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Bisutopia19300 Posts
On August 23 2012 03:29 DarkSworn wrote:
could someone please tell me who the f is saviorsc2 in this roster? not in sc i already know the real Ma Bonjwa
Already posted in this thread. Read through it before acting all rage like. (Hint: page 2)
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On August 23 2012 03:19 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 03:09 ohampatu wrote:On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote:
Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena
Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money The best method? Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names. Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers. Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint. Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
People don't tune into MLG to watch Qxc, binski, or Gix go 0-5 in groupstage, hate to break it to you.
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On August 23 2012 03:47 xrapture wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 03:19 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:09 ohampatu wrote:On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote:
Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena
Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money The best method? Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names. Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers. Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint. Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers. People don't tune into MLG to watch Qxc, binski, or Gix go 0-5 in groupstage, hate to break it to you.
Hate to break it to you. Group stage doesn't work like that anymore. No, but people will start watching if one of them makes a decent run. It is not like that won't broadcast the big name matches in the open bracket. Sorry, I don't think thousands of people are going to be tuning out just because 3 out of the 24 invited spots are going to Binsiki, Gix and Caliber.
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Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well
Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
Super... they have a team, but there are probably 100 better players from EU... looks like MLG just wants to save money.
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On August 23 2012 03:49 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 03:47 xrapture wrote:On August 23 2012 03:19 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:09 ohampatu wrote:On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote:
Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena
Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money The best method? Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names. Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers. Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint. Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers. People don't tune into MLG to watch Qxc, binski, or Gix go 0-5 in groupstage, hate to break it to you. Hate to break it to you. Group stage doesn't work like that anymore.
yeah , i'll go 0-2, not 0-5 silly
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On August 23 2012 03:52 SeggsyLori wrote:Show nested quote +Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well
Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion Super... they have a team, but there are probably 100 better players from EU... looks like MLG just wants to save money.
And Assembly, Dreamhack don't invite All Koreans either when there are 100 better players in Korea. Hell, they should let MVP play in WCS Germany...
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I was disappointed like everyone else once I realize there was no Kespa players. Just look at it on the bright side, there's more room for American players to make a splash and make a name for themselves ! America fighting ~ :D
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On August 23 2012 03:44 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 03:37 ragz_gt wrote:On August 23 2012 03:29 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:25 ragz_gt wrote:On August 23 2012 03:19 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:09 ohampatu wrote:On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote:
Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena
Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money The best method? Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names. Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers. Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint. Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers. GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA ) So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND??? Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested: On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:
It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse. Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding? Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light. And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer
And then 4 from
Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. + Show Spoiler +BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map
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Lol who the hell are those invites? If MLG's plan to promote NA players is to throw them into a pack of wolves, then it won't go well. Day 1 looks like a total bore, especially if MLG ends up paywalling the matches between two good players.
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On August 23 2012 04:00 ragz_gt wrote:
BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
This is wrong .________.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Summer/Qualifier/Invite/America
He got walkover-ed or forfeited R1 in winners to TubbyTheFat but he made it to the end of the losers bracket and just missed qualifying by going 1-2 to Illusion.
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On August 23 2012 04:00 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 03:44 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:37 ragz_gt wrote:On August 23 2012 03:29 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:25 ragz_gt wrote:On August 23 2012 03:19 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:09 ohampatu wrote:On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote:
Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena
Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money The best method? Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names. Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers. Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint. Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers. GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA ) So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND??? Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested: On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:
It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse. Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding? Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light. And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited? They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket: MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
giX was 1 round away from qualifying for Arena, seriously do you just not give 2 fucks about looking stuff up before insulting people?
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On August 23 2012 04:05 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 04:00 ragz_gt wrote:On August 23 2012 03:44 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:37 ragz_gt wrote:On August 23 2012 03:29 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:25 ragz_gt wrote:On August 23 2012 03:19 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:09 ohampatu wrote:On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote:
Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena
Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money The best method? Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names. Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers. Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint. Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers. GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA ) So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND??? Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested: On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:
It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse. Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding? Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light. And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited? They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket: MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to. giX was 1 round away from qualifying for Arena, seriously do you just not give 2 fucks about looking stuff up before insulting people?
On August 23 2012 04:05 Ursadon-n-Pals wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 04:00 ragz_gt wrote:
BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to. This is wrong .________. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_MLG_Pro_Circuit/Summer/Qualifier/Invite/AmericaHe got walkover-ed or forfeited R1 in winners to TubbyTheFat but he made it to the end of the losers bracket and just missed qualifying by going 1-2 to Illusion.
I stand corrected, lower bracket was closed as default for me for some reason so my search fails horribly. But point stand, as clearly the seed is not suppose to base on those who failed to move forward in regional qualifier.
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On August 23 2012 04:04 setzer wrote:
Lol who the hell are those invites? If MLG's plan to promote NA players is to throw them into a pack of wolves, then it won't go well. Day 1 looks like a total bore, especially if MLG ends up paywalling the matches between two good players.
They are the next highest qualifiers from the Summer Season who could go (or were already registered) to the Championship.
Judging by the schedule, it looks like it'll be the MLG Open Bracket and WCS Losers Bracket that will be paywalled (but possibly half the group matches won't be shown at all?)
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How did those invites get decided? Was it point seeding after the KESPA players couldn't come?
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On August 23 2012 04:00 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 03:44 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:37 ragz_gt wrote:On August 23 2012 03:29 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:25 ragz_gt wrote:On August 23 2012 03:19 vthree wrote:On August 23 2012 03:09 ohampatu wrote:On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote:
Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena
Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money The best method? Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names. Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers. Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint. Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers. GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA ) So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND??? Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested: On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote:
It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse. Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding? Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light. And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited? They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket: MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
ROFL. giX missed the WB matches and went to LB where he fought through everyone and was 1 match alway from making Arena. And guess who he beat on the way? Heart!!! The no brainer invite.
And the problem is the term 'best' player from open bracket. For the first few, there is probably universal agreement (MKP, Leenock,), it becomes a little muddy after that. With MLGs method, it is very clear cut.
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On August 23 2012 04:04 setzer wrote:
Lol who the hell are those invites? If MLG's plan to promote NA players is to throw them into a pack of wolves, then it won't go well. Day 1 looks like a total bore, especially if MLG ends up paywalling the matches between two good players.
These invites are people who did better than Idra, SeleCT, Huk in the NA Invite Qualifiers for Arena.
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EPT
