StarCraft II at the Summer Championship will be broadcast on majorleaguegaming.com on four live streams this weekend, August 24-26! The action kicks off at 5pm ET/11pm CEST and will run straight through Sunday. The top players from the MLG Summer Season will be joined by a massive Open Bracket full of talented competitors, all looking for their share of fame and $76,000 in prize money.
The following is the full lineup of players, for both Group Play and the Open Bracket. Because of scheduling challenges that would place undue stress on the players, we regret to announce that KeSPA pros will not be appearing at the Summer Championship in Raleigh. MLG’s partnership with KeSPA is ongoing, and we are continuing to work together in order to strengthen eSports and the relationship between Korean and Western StarCraft II. KeSPA players will be participating in future MLG events, and we will be bringing you further details about this and other joint initiatives over the coming months.
Will Taeja triumph again, or will MarineKing make Raleigh his third victory? Will this be Stephano’s time to nab an MLG Championship, after so many close calls? Will a relative unknown storm through round after round on a run for the record books! Watch this weekend and find out for yourself! The Red and Blue streams are free in standard definition. To get the two Premium streams, watch all streams in ad-free HD, and get DVR functionality and near-instant access to VOD, upgrade your experience with an HD Pass.
The MLG Summer Championship isn't the only StarCraft II event happening in Raleigh. The North America Finals of the WCS will be taking place at the same time; many players--including Huk, Idra, Nony and more--will be competing in both. Get full WCS info, including the lineup and schedule, and get hyped for a double dose of world-class StarCraft II!
Sure MKP is going? Guy plays like OSL on Weds? And DeMuslim as of yet hasn't left England, even though i guess he could comfertably leave tomorrow and be ok to play Friday xD
Group Stage annoys me with the calibre of players though But still i look forward to it
Same with Thorzain come to think of it, he has his UP&DOWN matches to play after MLG? He will be playing Tuesday (i think)
WTH are there players seeded in groups that i have never heard of? Nothing against them (they are probably all good players) but they will gert slaughtered by the top players. So much talent in the openbracket. Such a shame that the left seeds were not given to the highest open bracket finishers. They would deserve them because they would have earned them by defeating a lof of good players in the open bracket. Rapes incoming! i predict 0:5 for several players in the group.
Can see that kespa takes this partnership seriously. Would have been quite difficult for them to delay osl by one week so their players could attend this.
On August 23 2012 00:30 OrbitalPlane wrote: WTH are there players seeded in groups that i have never heard of? Nothing against them they are probably all good players but they well gert slaughtered by the top players. So much talent in the openbracket. Such a shame that the left seeds were not given to the highest open bracket finishers. They would deserve them because they earned them by defeating a lof of good players in the open bracket.
The seeds came from their performance at the Arena, I believe.
Is there any information about how the seeds are determined, because I see some seeded players of who - at least to my knowledge - did not perform awfully well in the championships.
On August 23 2012 00:30 OrbitalPlane wrote: WTH are there players seeded in groups that i have never heard of? Nothing against them they are probably all good players but they well gert slaughtered by the top players. So much talent in the openbracket. Such a shame that the left seeds were not given to the highest open bracket finishers. They would deserve them because they earned them by defeating a lof of good players in the open bracket.
The seeds came from their performance at the Arena, I believe.
The basis of their seedings for pool play now indeed.
Because of scheduling challenges that would place undue stress on the players, we regret to announce that KeSPA pros will not be appearing at the Summer Championship in Raleigh.
On August 23 2012 00:29 m0ck wrote: Seed 3 & 5 and 4 & 6 together. Why?
By any logic, 3 & 6 and 4 & 5 should be in the same groups. This is an disadvantage to seed 3 compared to seed 4. It makes no sense.
It doesn't necessary have to be that way. As long as the sum of the seeds in each group is the same, it's still mathematically fair to everyone...
Well, except that the sums aren't the same. So yeah, someone messed up since it just doesn't make any sense. A simple 1-8-9-16-17-23 type grouping would've worked perfectly since the number of players in each group is even.
On August 23 2012 00:29 m0ck wrote: Seed 3 & 5 and 4 & 6 together. Why?
By any logic, 3 & 6 and 4 & 5 should be in the same groups. This is an disadvantage to seed 3 compared to seed 4. It makes no sense.
I don't understand it either. Maybe they wanted the Oz/Stephano storyline or something. I guess it is a mistake but who knows.
Yeh think they done it on purpose. The way it should be done is 1 2 3 4, seed 1 in each group then you fill in the rest, in numerical order. So Taeja should of been grouped with Stephano.
On August 23 2012 00:30 OrbitalPlane wrote: WTH are there players seeded in groups that i have never heard of? Nothing against them they are probably all good players but they well gert slaughtered by the top players. So much talent in the openbracket. Such a shame that the left seeds were not given to the highest open bracket finishers. They would deserve them because they earned them by defeating a lof of good players in the open bracket.
The seeds came from their performance at the Arena, I believe.
No look here:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=356282 Top 16 are from arena. (i am ok with that they went through kind of a qualifier and all are at least decent on the pro level) 8 are invites. they were supposed to be given to kespa players.
On August 23 2012 00:29 m0ck wrote: Seed 3 & 5 and 4 & 6 together. Why?
By any logic, 3 & 6 and 4 & 5 should be in the same groups. This is an disadvantage to seed 3 compared to seed 4. It makes no sense.
It doesn't necessary have to be that way. As long as the sum of the seeds in each group is the same, it's still mathematically fair to everyone...
Well, except that the sums aren't the same. So yeah, someone messed up since it just doesn't make any sense. A simple 1-8-9-16-17-23 type grouping would've worked perfectly since the number of players in each group is even.
I guess you could be right, but it seems to me that the more important distribution must be in the top. For the third seed, playing seed 5 or 6 might make a big difference, while playing seed 17 or 18 is more likely less important.
On August 23 2012 00:32 Lunares wrote: Can see that kespa takes this partnership seriously. Would have been quite difficult for them to delay osl by one week so their players could attend this.
Can see that MLG takes this partnership seriously. Would have been quite difficult for them to delay Raleigh by one week so Kespa players could attend.
On August 23 2012 00:32 Lunares wrote: Can see that kespa takes this partnership seriously. Would have been quite difficult for them to delay osl by one week so their players could attend this.
Proleague is in its final week of regular season too. But I'm with you, really wish they would adjust their schedule and send a few players.
Someone should tell Sundance the solution against korean domination is NOT seeding NA players to group stage, especially when they are sub-50% winrate TLPD.
On August 23 2012 00:32 Lunares wrote: Can see that kespa takes this partnership seriously. Would have been quite difficult for them to delay osl by one week so their players could attend this.
I think its more because of the last games before the playoffs for proleague are played in that weekend.
Guess I won't be watching the matches as the lineup isn't as stellar as previous MLGs, but it'll be interesting to follow nonetheless. I hope for a Taeja/MKP vs Stephano/Leenock final.
On August 23 2012 00:29 m0ck wrote: Seed 3 & 5 and 4 & 6 together. Why?
By any logic, 3 & 6 and 4 & 5 should be in the same groups. This is an disadvantage to seed 3 compared to seed 4. It makes no sense.
I don't understand it either. Maybe they wanted the Oz/Stephano storyline or something. I guess it is a mistake but who knows.
7-8 and 5-6 are placed radomly among the groups with 1-2 and 3-4, respectively.
From the tourney format page on MLG's site:
Seeding 1. All Group Play Players will be randomized into one of four Groups according to the following guidelines: Group A must consist of the #1 Seed and a Player seeded #7-8. Group B must consist of the #2 Seed and a Player seeded #7-8. Group C must consist of the #3 Seed and a Player seeded #5-6. Group D must consist of the #4 Seed and a Player seeded #5-6. All Groups must consist of a Player seeded #9-12, a Player seeded #13-16, a Player seeded #17-20, and a Player seeded #21-24.
Why is this not on the calendar? In the past they have had a special page just for MLG as well, is it just late this time or is there some falling out between MLG and TL.net? Or am I just readin to much in to it?
On August 23 2012 00:54 OminouS wrote: Why is this not on the calendar? In the past they have had a special page just for MLG as well, is it just late this time or is there some falling out between MLG and TL.net? Or am I just readin to much in to it?
As far as I know that page is paid advertisment and apparently MLG decided not to promote the Championship like this on TL. I could be totally wrong though, i have no idea.
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
Seeding 1. All Group Play Players will be randomized into one of four Groups according to the following guidelines: Group A must consist of the #1 Seed and a Player seeded #7-8. Group B must consist of the #2 Seed and a Player seeded #7-8. Group C must consist of the #3 Seed and a Player seeded #5-6. Group D must consist of the #4 Seed and a Player seeded #5-6. All Groups must consist of a Player seeded #9-12, a Player seeded #13-16, a Player seeded #17-20, and a Player seeded #21-24.
Also wtf is the seeding. Why is it not normal? Like why did they switch stephano and losira, binski and qxc as well? I haven't checked through all the seeds but even with just those two it's done incorrectly if they wanted it to be like a normal tournament... Edit: Sorry didn't notice the earlier post. Probably should have just read all the comments first -_-
Group A is sick. Why do HerO and Taeja always have to go up against each other? Stephano vs Oz rematch should be good too, hopefully Oz can dominate him again.
Obviously KeSPA players can't come, since this weekend is the final round. ACE and KT are already out, but I guess they couldn't make it work.
It's not just the fact it's final round. The breaks between seasons are very short and we have to consider the OSL as well. Their schedules are pretty jarring as is.
Why are Caliber, Gix and Binski seeded? How does this seeding work? I´m just curious because these 3 guys didn´t participate at the MLG Summer Arena and they didn´t place very high in previous MLG events. Were these guys randomly picked or is there some sort of system behind these seeds?
And also, GoOdy fighting! I´m very optimistic that he´s gonna surprise a lot of people with great results and amazing games.
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
Who cares how they got there. The end result is the player list is extremely underwhelming, and the games will for sure be crap. I'm not happy in the least to find out that this is what I paid for a HD pass for.
Damn this was really disappointing, I had been looking forward to MLG for a long time since I feel the WCS is lacking in quality. But imho there are a lot of players from the open brackets that should have been seeded instead of several of these group seeds. I really, really hope that they surprise me and convince me that they are better (and more deserving of a chance in groups) than people like huk, thorzain, heart, thestc, demuslim, marineking, leenock and asd to mention a few. Crossing my fingers that group play delivers and I (we) dont have to wait until sunday for quality competition.
On August 23 2012 01:13 sitromit wrote: Who cares how they got there. The end result is the player list is extremely underwhelming, and the games will for sure be crap. I'm not happy in the least to find out that this is what I paid for a HD pass for.
This made me laugh. Why not read up on who's gonna be there before buying then? It's not like this is completely new, it's just a list so people are reminded of who'll be playing. "The games will for sure be crap". Yes, certainly.
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
I don't think this is hard to figure out. Obviously they were holding the 8 invites for Kespa players. When that fell through last minute, they just took people that were in Arena but not Top 16. That is why Grubby, Illusion, Sheth, etc is there. Since it was last minute, a lot of those players probably couldn't make it so they went to the NA qualifiers for Arena which was Binski, Gix, Caliber.
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
MLG wanted the KESPA players to be there. MLG goofed on scheduling the Summer Championship for the same dates as the last games of Proleague. So to cover it up, they instead invite players who were going to be there, and bump their rankings based on some weird method(you could say arena, but leenock should be there before binski, caliber, or gix as he was technically qualified for arena, but couldn't make it).
To be honest..maybe i'm spoiled by the amazing list of great players for the MLG championships but this list looks quite lacklustre. Usually there's those usualy 10-12 Code S players, and 10-12 code A players which is lacking this time aroun The usual call ups aren't there (DRG, MC), No kespa players And the only notable korean sigh up to watch is probably FXOasd, Leenock and MKP compared to a good 5-6 koreans
It's too bad MLG is caught up right int he perfect mix of storms with WCG, WCS, OSL or else we'd see alot more players.
@Pinski ,vthree I understand the situation very well. That's why i suggested on page 1 to give the remaining seeds to the highest open bracket finishers.
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
MLG Arena players 17-32 are not given free trips to MLG -- so very few/none of them accepted their invites. Then MLG goes down the list of the next highest people (I.e. binski / caliber who were both 1 round away from Arena) and they got invited. Since they were going to be at MLG anyway, they got the seeds.
I don't get what's so hard to understand, there's no reason for you to be a massive dick.
I'll agree the lineup is abit light on Europeans, but other than those it's pretty solid as far as Koreans go. Taeja Hero Ryung First Oz Violet Leenock MKP, plenty of talent to go around.
Only players I'm actually disappointed not attending are MC and Sase.
WTF, First and Losira in same group, same with hero taeja.. IDK why yall are derping about this, no MC/DRG? We got Taeja, ryung, Alicia, Stephano, hero, losira, first. Open bracket will be really fun to watch: Heart, killer,Thorzain, huk, puck,fitzy, minigun, trimaster
Lineup isn't bad, but I'm admittedly disappointed we won't see any KeSPA players there (how ironic I'm saying that when I was so wary when this deal was announced).
I'll still watch (it'd be silly not to as it IS still a good lineup), but yeah - not quite as hyped as I was before I read this thread.
The top 16 seeded players are good, but MLG will have to explain how they chose the 8 invited players... It makes no sense. Also, Stephano and Hero got screwed
Man, thats a killer open bracket, not just in terms of talent but in terms of community names. I don't think anyone expects MaximusBlack to take it versus MKP or whathaveyou, but its definitely nice to see his MLG appearance wasn't a oneoff, and he's trying again. Flo being in there is good, I hope she goes at least a few good rounds. NonY being back on the scene after what seems like forever can only be good. ThorZaiN, DeMusliM, IdrA, Suppy, InControl and HuK making a showing is also fantastic.
Also, I'm really happy to see LookNoHands and Crank in there, those guys are fantastic.
On August 23 2012 01:45 Thurken wrote: The top 16 seeded players are good, but MLG will have to explain how they chose the 8 invited players... It makes no sense. Also, Stephano and Hero got screwed
They actually dont have to explain anything... and how did hero and stephano get screwed? If they wanna win the tournament, they gotta go through the best players anyways.
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
MLG Arena players 17-32 are not given free trips to MLG -- so very few/none of them accepted their invites. Then MLG goes down the list of the next highest people (I.e. binski / caliber who were both 1 round away from Arena) and they got invited. Since they were going to be at MLG anyway, they got the seeds.
This is a explanation that makes sense to some extent but you don't link a source either. Is this your assumption or did you hear that from MLG? In the sources i trust they still state that there are 8 invited players. They are also a lot of other scenarios that seem possible to me. I guess the Kespa players would not have payed for their flight tickets on their own. As a result you can also argue that MLG could have flown in some good foreigners. But this is not the point i was making. I am just saying that this seems to be the worst sulotion and i listed some ideas in further posts that are better imho.
I don't get what's so hard to understand, there's no reason for you to be a massive dick.
Like i posted before its nothing personal against players from LighT. Did I get personal or insult you? Or is it normal for you to call random ppl out to be a massive dick?
On August 23 2012 01:45 Thurken wrote: The top 16 seeded players are good, but MLG will have to explain how they chose the 8 invited players... It makes no sense. Also, Stephano and Hero got screwed
They actually dont have to explain anything... and how did hero and stephano get screwed? If they wanna win the tournament, they gotta go through the best players anyways.
Ofc, it was a way of saying thing. Meaning that I'd really like to know how and why they chose those players.
The most disappointing about this is that Groups A-C have already determined the Championship Bracket.. Ryung should smash Group A being so many Terrans closely followed by Taeja and Alicia should smash group B at place himself at a nice round in the next round
the problem here is the rain in this tournament is nice but it would be soo cool have the other rain ^^ btw i would even say roro, effort and co could make easy top3 xD perhaps they scared they are not good enough yet
On August 23 2012 01:51 CoR wrote: we jhave to tell the kespa guys they can make alot of name and money here, guys like roro reality skt1.rain are SO good
That's not the issue. I'm sure they wanted to come, but it's super crucial games in PL for every single team except Ace and KT, and Ace can't go anyway.
MLG conflicts with the last matchday of Proleague I think (or at least that's what I read). So Kespa players not going to MLG is probably for the best.
Although feel free to invite any of the ACE players. =P
Why is Qxc in this? He went 0:4 in the Summer Arena. On which system were those seeds determined? edit: nvm, not apparently all spots are Summer Arena seeds.
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
MLG Arena players 17-32 are not given free trips to MLG -- so very few/none of them accepted their invites. Then MLG goes down the list of the next highest people (I.e. binski / caliber who were both 1 round away from Arena) and they got invited. Since they were going to be at MLG anyway, they got the seeds.
This is a explanation that makes sense to some extent but you don't link a source either. Is this your assumption or did you hear that from MLG? In the sources i trust they still state that there are 8 invited players. They are also a lot of other scenarios that seem possible to me. I guess the Kespa players would not have payed for their flight tickets on their own. As a result you can also argue that MLG could have flown in some good foreigners. But this is not the point i was making. I am just saying that this seems to be the worst sulotion and i listed some ideas in further posts that are better imho.
I don't get what's so hard to understand, there's no reason for you to be a massive dick.
Like i posted before its nothing personal against players from LighT. Did I get personal or insult you? Or is it normal for you to call random ppl out to be a massive dick?
Well, your raffle comment was kind of insulting. Yes, there are other ways to handle the extra spots but MLG chose this one. If you ask 10 diifferent people, they would have 10 different 'fair' solutions...
On August 23 2012 02:00 Talin wrote: MLG conflicts with the last matchday of Proleague I think (or at least that's what I read). So Kespa players not going to MLG is probably for the best.
Although feel free to invite any of the ACE players. =P
And have their invites turned down as ACE doesn't care about anything but Korea considering who their major sponsor is.
On August 23 2012 01:51 CoR wrote: we jhave to tell the kespa guys they can make alot of name and money here, guys like roro reality skt1.rain are SO good
That's not the issue. I'm sure they wanted to come, but it's super crucial games in PL for every single team except Ace and KT, and Ace can't go anyway.
And for us foreign fans, MLG might be a huge event. But PL is much more important to the Kespa players.
On August 23 2012 00:32 Kiyo. wrote: Whelp, now we know why it hasn't been hyped.
I don't understand, why are people sad about this? This is a fucking sick line up..
I dunno man, only 3 Europeans. So it will basically only be Korean vs Korean, American vs American and Koreans stomping Americans.
Well, sadly not everybody is part of a team who is wealthy enough to send you overseas to compete in a tournament. Even though you yourself might be better than a couple of players on that team. :-/
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
MLG Arena players 17-32 are not given free trips to MLG -- so very few/none of them accepted their invites. Then MLG goes down the list of the next highest people (I.e. binski / caliber who were both 1 round away from Arena) and they got invited. Since they were going to be at MLG anyway, they got the seeds.
This is a explanation that makes sense to some extent but you don't link a source either. Is this your assumption or did you hear that from MLG? In the sources i trust they still state that there are 8 invited players. They are also a lot of other scenarios that seem possible to me. I guess the Kespa players would not have payed for their flight tickets on their own. As a result you can also argue that MLG could have flown in some good foreigners. But this is not the point i was making. I am just saying that this seems to be the worst sulotion and i listed some ideas in further posts that are better imho.
I don't get what's so hard to understand, there's no reason for you to be a massive dick.
Like i posted before its nothing personal against players from LighT. Did I get personal or insult you? Or is it normal for you to call random ppl out to be a massive dick?
Well, your raffle comment was kind of insulting.
The raffle idea was a exaggeration. I think (at least i hope) most people don't believe that i expect this to really happen. I don't see this insulting Xeris so.
Yes, there are other ways to handle the extra spots but MLG chose this one. If you ask 10 diifferent people, they would have 10 different 'fair' solutions...
This is true. I just expressed my opinion that i think it was the worst solution. If you think it was the best solution you can throw in some arguments and we can have a nice discussion. Or we just agree on that we have different opinions depending that matter.
On August 23 2012 02:00 Talin wrote: MLG conflicts with the last matchday of Proleague I think (or at least that's what I read). So Kespa players not going to MLG is probably for the best.
Although feel free to invite any of the ACE players. =P
And have their invites turned down as ACE doesn't care about anything but Korea considering who their major sponsor is.
And the fact they have to stay on Korean soil, since they are you know, Korean army.
Revival fighting! Decent lineup, interesting groups, EU hugely underrepresented which may make the NA vs KR play turn out somewhat imbalanced, hoping for some upsets though. TT for no proper WCS coverage .. methinks it would be better to not backpack WCS onto a Major for better exposure.
On August 23 2012 02:10 Makro wrote: i'm ready for this, the group A with taeja and seed will be insane, and the one with stephano and oz too, i hope that stephy will be first
I think you misread it or I am missing a joke, Seed is not at MLG. Or he plays in every group which would be quite insane.
I have never heard of either Gix, Binski or Caliber and I watch SC2 every day... Should be a fun tournament but you have to wonder how they managed to get into the groups.
Seed sure has a lot of matches to play, ok jk that was bad it's weird not seeing some of the big names in group stage and instead seeing some new players...! i like it though!
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
MLG Arena players 17-32 are not given free trips to MLG -- so very few/none of them accepted their invites. Then MLG goes down the list of the next highest people (I.e. binski / caliber who were both 1 round away from Arena) and they got invited. Since they were going to be at MLG anyway, they got the seeds.
This is a explanation that makes sense to some extent but you don't link a source either. Is this your assumption or did you hear that from MLG? In the sources i trust they still state that there are 8 invited players. They are also a lot of other scenarios that seem possible to me. I guess the Kespa players would not have payed for their flight tickets on their own. As a result you can also argue that MLG could have flown in some good foreigners. But this is not the point i was making. I am just saying that this seems to be the worst sulotion and i listed some ideas in further posts that are better imho.
I don't get what's so hard to understand, there's no reason for you to be a massive dick.
Like i posted before its nothing personal against players from LighT. Did I get personal or insult you? Or is it normal for you to call random ppl out to be a massive dick?
MLG pays for the flights for the top 16 of Arena. 17-32 earn high seeds in open bracket but don't have their flights paid for - this is common knowledge. There were to be 8 invited players (people assume they were to be KeSPA pros), it doesn't really matter who they were, but for whatever reason the players they wanted to invite didn't come.
So the next step is to invite people from qualifiers, using an objective method. Look at Liquipedia to see the rankings from the Arena qualifiers, then say it doesn't make sense.
Think about it logically... they need to fill the groups, they have to use some kind of objective method to do it. What are the chances a European will fly to MLG on <1 week notice? Probably 0. What are the chances that an NA player will come to MLG, probably 100% since they're coming anyway. You're not even thinking about this - and insulting the people that are in pool play just because you don't know them and it seems "random" to you even though it's not random at all.
On August 23 2012 00:20 Nimic wrote: Well, that's a bit disappointing. This MLG went from "must watch" to "might watch".
Agree. There is no much to watch.
The line-up is ok, I guess. It's just that the other tournaments going on right now and tournaments that are about to start, especially in Korea, have much stronger line-ups.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
Seems a bit Korean heavy. Each MLG there are less NA at the higher levels. I usually switch off after Championship Sunday becomes all Korean. Hopefully Stephano can go all the way to the finals so I keep my eyes on it. In other news- the Blizz WC should be awesome!
Oh man dat invite list?! o_O No wonder MLG didn't do any hyping like anaheim. I should have known MLG never holds back hype if something big is going down, so no hype should have been warning sign. I'm disappointed now, but MKP will keep me watching this tourney still.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
So because someone lost to someone who lost to someone who is considered good, they are good as well? The law never fails.
The funniest thing (or not) is that the top seeds of MLG Summer Arena (TaeJa, Alicia, Stephano, HerO, etc) will maybe have to face the open bracket winners (great players so) while the worse seeded players (seed 3 and 4 of each group : Daisy, GoOdy, PuMa) will maybe face the invited players (Binski, Caliber, etc). I hope it will be not the case but I have a doubt.
On August 23 2012 02:35 tranmillitary wrote: that group B looks like the group of death... while group D looks like child's play.
I'm calling it... A korean Terran will win this MLG.
Careful with those risky predictions bro, you might hurt yourself.
LOL. If MVP was here, my prediction would be 100 percent right. Taeja/MKP/MVP are the 3 best Terran's in the world right now. Alive might come out and go beast mode again, but we shall see.
On August 23 2012 02:35 tranmillitary wrote: that group B looks like the group of death... while group D looks like child's play.
I'm calling it... A korean Terran will win this MLG.
Careful with those risky predictions bro, you might hurt yourself.
LOL. If MVP was here, my prediction would be 100 percent right. Taeja/MKP/MVP are the 3 best Terran's in the world right now. Alive might come out and go beast mode again, but we shall see.
I want MKP to fucking CRUSH this tournament. I want Manner Mules and Manner CC's EVERY GAME.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
So because someone lost to someone who lost to someone who is considered good, they are good as well? The law never fails.
Not at all, but they got through multiple weaker opponents before losing to opponents (Who also got through multiple weaker opponents) who were ultimately stopped by absolute beasts.
I'm not arguing that they're top class foreigner hopes, but they put in a good account of themselves at the last MLG and I'm all for giving players their fair chance.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
So because someone lost to someone who lost to someone who is considered good, they are good as well? The law never fails.
Not at all, but they got through multiple weaker opponents before losing to opponents (Who also got through multiple weaker opponents) who were ultimately stopped by absolute beasts.
I'm not arguing that they're top class foreigner hopes, but they put in a good account of themselves at the last MLG and I'm all for giving players their fair chance.
The fair chance is called the open bracket, not being seeded into the pools.
I'm optimistic despite the hero and taeja being in the same group but MKP? I don't see it. Not saying its absolutely impossible just that I think he is overrated, a good player but not mind boggling and amazing, and I would be supremely disappointed if it did. and before I get anyone saying he's the most amazing player ever, I am not impressed and that's my valid OPINION. DEAL.
MLG pays for the flights for the top 16 of Arena. 17-32 earn high seeds in open bracket but don't have their flights paid for - this is common knowledge.
There were to be 8 invited players (people assume they were to be KeSPA pros), it doesn't really matter who they were, but for whatever reason the players they wanted to invite didn't come.
Did you even read the OP? They announced that the Kespa pros will not apear. This is not an assumption.
So the next step is to invite people from qualifiers, using an objective method. Look at Liquipedia to see the rankings from the Arena qualifiers, then say it doesn't make sense.
Yes this is one objective method to do it. But this is not the only one. I don't see were they said they use this one. And the only thing i said is that i don't like the methode and i explained why.
Think about it logically... they need to fill the groups, they have to use some kind of objective method to do it. What are the chances a European will fly to MLG on <1 week notice? Probably 0. What are the chances that an NA player will come to MLG, probably 100% since they're coming anyway.
This is one way to do it but you could have also increased the qualifing seeds from open bracket. This is just one objective method beneath many
- and insulting the people that are in pool play just because you don't know them and it seems "random" to you even though it's not random at all.
Can you quote me insulting players pls? i said that: To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way. Is this insulting to you?
On August 23 2012 02:46 Irre wrote: why exactly is a player named Gix and a player named Binski seeded into groups but multiple MLG Champion MKP is in the open bracket? what?
my thoughts exactly. will not be watching this mlg.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
So because someone lost to someone who lost to someone who is considered good, they are good as well? The law never fails.
Not at all, but they got through multiple weaker opponents before losing to opponents (Who also got through multiple weaker opponents) who were ultimately stopped by absolute beasts.
I'm not arguing that they're top class foreigner hopes, but they put in a good account of themselves at the last MLG and I'm all for giving players their fair chance.
The fair chance is called the open bracket, not being seeded into the pools.
MLG has chosen to reward these players for their previous good showing. They took advantage of their fair chance last time and proved to be reasonable competitors by MLG's standards.
Is it so hard to be happy that some unknowns, whose play you're probably not familiar with, are being given an opportunity to play bigger games and maybe in the process bring a little more to the table than seeing the same old names play each other over and over? If they play well, they bring a lot of dark horse excitement to a tournament where otherwise the fans have generally preconceived ideas of what to expect.
If they don't play well, the better players in the open bracket and the better players in the pools will swiftly show them the door, and you won't have to worry about it.
Nobody loses here, we as fans, and them as players, only stand to gain.
On August 23 2012 02:46 Irre wrote: why exactly is a player named Gix and a player named Binski seeded into groups but multiple MLG Champion MKP is in the open bracket? what?
They played in the last MLG, and earned seeds, by whatever standards MLG have used to determine those seeds (IE, presumably not stupid reasons). MKP didn't play in the last MLG at all, and its unrealistic to expect a tournament to carry over a seed from two tournaments ago.
Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
Not that excited for this. Plus this is a busy weekend for me as is. I may watch championship sunday, or selected matches if they're two players I like.
On August 23 2012 02:35 tranmillitary wrote: that group B looks like the group of death... while group D looks like child's play.
I'm calling it... A korean Terran will win this MLG.
Careful with those risky predictions bro, you might hurt yourself.
LOL. If MVP was here, my prediction would be 100 percent right. Taeja/MKP/MVP are the 3 best Terran's in the world right now. Alive might come out and go beast mode again, but we shall see.
I want MKP to fucking CRUSH this tournament. I want Manner Mules and Manner CC's EVERY GAME.
Hero is gonna Manner Nexus the **** out of him (assuming they meet).
On August 23 2012 02:35 tranmillitary wrote: that group B looks like the group of death... while group D looks like child's play.
I'm calling it... A korean Terran will win this MLG.
Careful with those risky predictions bro, you might hurt yourself.
LOL. If MVP was here, my prediction would be 100 percent right. Taeja/MKP/MVP are the 3 best Terran's in the world right now. Alive might come out and go beast mode again, but we shall see.
Or Alicia will finally not choke in the finals. Well he beat MKP pretty bad last time, and now there is no DRG to stop him. Still a stephano though.
On August 23 2012 02:46 Irre wrote: why exactly is a player named Gix and a player named Binski seeded into groups but multiple MLG Champion MKP is in the open bracket? what?
my thoughts exactly. will not be watching this mlg.
On August 23 2012 02:46 Irre wrote: why exactly is a player named Gix and a player named Binski seeded into groups but multiple MLG Champion MKP is in the open bracket? what?
my thoughts exactly. will not be watching this mlg.
Weakest open bracket since 2010? :S Always a great show tho, so it won't really matter, but I have to say that the lack of ''famous'' players in the open bracket saddens me
It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Earned or not idc some of these players shouldn't be in group stages like Binski, Goody, Gix, Sasquatch, an Caliber, especially when theres players like SeleCT, IdrA, Huk, JYP, DeMuslim, MKP, Heart, and Thorzain are in open bracket. It defeats the purpose of even having groups when lower skill players like that are pretty much automatically put a lot futher placement wise by default in the final rankings over those with higher skill just because of bad groups.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Why is nobody talking about the fact that Desrow may be the biggest sleeper in this tournament.
I can see him crushing the open bracket and then meeting Taeja in the finals. It would be a toss-up between these two players to take down the championship in my opinion, but I may have to give the edge to chief Panda because his PvT is godlike.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
so they should be seeded ahead of multiple MLG winners like MKP? rofl
I hope the top seeded player will face first the invited players and not the open bracket winners since the open bracket winners are likely to be way stronger..
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Waiting so long to announce them put more of a spotlight on them, not less.
I think the Kespa players would have come if the PL standings weren't so insane, because only 2 ro 3 teams would have meaningful games. It just didn't work out that way so they had to bail.
On August 23 2012 03:07 Catatonic wrote: Earned or not idc some of these players shouldn't be in group stages like Binski, Goody, Gix, Sasquatch, an Caliber, especially when theres players like SeleCT, IdrA, Huk, JYP, DeMuslim, MKP, Heart, and Thorzain are in open bracket. It defeats the purpose of even having groups when lower skill players like that are pretty much automatically put a lot futher placement wise by default in the final rankings over those with higher skill just because of bad groups.
Lol, if you just said MKP, Heart, TZ. It would have been better. You do realize that these 'no-names' all did better than SeleCT, Idra, Huk in the NA Invite-Only Qualifiers right?
Why even have qualifiers and open brackets? Just invite all the 'skill' players and be done with it. Hell, why even have the tournament. It is obvious that Taeja is the most 'skilled' player in the world right now so just give him the trophy.
Well, (as a north american) MLG just went from my favorite event by far, to well, my favorite by a small margin (depends on how this MLG goes could be more or less).
Also I'm assuming that the reason they didn't have any hype was because they were still trying to work things out with the Kespa Pros and they didn't want to say they were coming when there was a chance they weren't, which in this case was a good thing.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
These are two different points. First one i specially say its not their fault. Why would they turn such an offer down? You know there are ppl like Jinro who turn down their Coda A invitation because they think they are not good enough. In my opinion that's not the players problem to think about how fair the inviteing process is. Exactly that's the reason why i emphasised it's NOT their fault. Second one. I don't say these players should not be invited. If they use the methode you explained then i say i don't like the methode MLG uses to invite the players. This is not directed towards the players and i don't see how it insults them. If those players would be idra, incontrol etc i would ask the same questions and i would also say that i don't like the methode MLG used. I don't see how the players could be personal offended by my words.
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
I think i stated that in every single last post i made. I think the best option would have been to give more seeds to the highest finishers in the open bracket. If the now invited players are good enough they will qualify through the open bracket and gain their seed that way. But there are also some other solutions that were at least better than the current one.
Looking at this bracket system i really like what MLG has done.
I think promoting a bunch of NA players due to non-shows from Koreans is also a great idea, even though they may get owned.
I think to make MLG more successful I think it is a good idea to have the 'top 8 players' and they have invites for the top 4 ranked (based on MLG results) from NA and EU. Plus the Kespa players which couldn't play this time unfortunately.
This way you make sure you get the top players from everywhere, while perhaps having slightly less Korean domination.
I will be following this event closely regardless though. I hope another random NA / EU amazing performance will occur again like with Grubby / Scarlett / Goody previously.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
These are two different points. First one i specially say its not their fault. Why would they turn such an offer down? You know there are ppl like Jinro who turn down their Coda A invitation because they think they are not good enough. In my opinion that's not the players problem to think about how fair the inviteing process is. Exactly that's the reason why i emphasised it's NOT their fault. Second one. I don't say these players should not be invited. If they use the methode you explained then i say i don't like the methode MLG uses to invite the players. This is not directed towards the players and i don't see how it insults them. If those players would be idra, incontrol etc i would ask the same questions and i would also say that i don't like the methode MLG used. I don't see how the players could be personal offended by my words.
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
I think i stated that in every single last post i made. I think the best option would have been to give more seeds to the highest finisher in the open bracket. If the now invited players are good enough they will qualify through the open bracket and gain their seed that way. But there are also some other solutions that were at least better than the current one.
I'm sure they invited places 17-32 in the arena before inviting binski and Caliber.... most likely people in 17-32 turned it down because... shocker ... it's expensive to go to an MLG.
glad to see the information released 2 fucking days before the event, great heads up MLG, awesome marketing strategy, hell hire me so I can give you guys a few pointers.
Normally I would watch. But there will be too many events at the same time. I'd probably go with the events that have Kespa players in them and go to sleep during MLG / watch some VODs later.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano or Naniwa vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
On August 23 2012 03:14 Proseat wrote: I hope a Liquid player will win it this time. It's been a while.
Yeah, almost a month. Realistcally both Hero and Taeja have good chances, with TaeJa being probably the overall favorite. Hero's vs Terran looked strong and the Zerg line-up is not terribly strong this MLG and if his PvP has one of the better days he can certainly go far.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
These are two different points. First one i specially say its not their fault. Why would they turn such an offer down? You know there are ppl like Jinro who turn down their Coda A invitation because they think they are not good enough. In my opinion that's not the players problem to think about how fair the inviteing process is. Exactly that's the reason why i emphasised it's NOT their fault. Second one. I don't say these players should not be invited. If they use the methode you explained then i say i don't like the methode MLG uses to invite the players. This is not directed towards the players and i don't see how it insults them. If those players would be idra, incontrol etc i would ask the same questions and i would also say that i don't like the methode MLG used. I don't see how the players could be personal offended by my words.
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
I think i stated that in every single last post i made. I think the best option would have been to give more seeds to the highest finisher in the open bracket. If the now invited players are good enough they will qualify through the open bracket and gain their seed that way. But there are also some other solutions that were at least better than the current one.
I'm sure they invited places 17-32 in the arena before inviting binski and Caliber.... most likely people in 17-32 turned it down because... shocker ... it's expensive to go to an MLG.
did you read my post? i didn't use the word ARENA i used the word OPEN BRACKET. this will be my last post on this matter btw. Seems like i wasted my time there.
On a side note: You know i won't be happy if those players get slaughtered 0:5 in their group. I am always happy if foreigners/underdogs take game of koreans. But a lot of ppl will then say that their invites were not justified. If they qualify through the open bracket they at least achieve that. Even if they get slaughted after that they already achieved something! I think the way it is now these games won't be on the main stage and they will get less exposure than they would if they qualified for it. You will see hero TaeJa on the stage. The local scene doesn't get a lot of attention. Did you know that Socke the guy who had several amazing runs at MLG (e.g being the only player defeating DRG and being one game away from beeing first in his group in one of the last MLG) didn't had a single stage match yet? But this is a different topic. And you could also argue about how much sense it makes to have 2 tournaments at the same time...
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
On August 23 2012 03:32 lowreezy08 wrote: please mlg, spend some of my 30$ gold pass for marketing strategies thx.
It's the opposite in this case I'm afraid. MLG knows how to market and hype based on anaheim. If they have something big, they will hype it on twitter and everywhere till people are sick of their hype. Here, was just a case of hiding the facts as long as possible about the 8 mystery players. Most assumed it would be Kespa and that would be correct as MLG stated that was the plan. They hid the bad news about them not coming as long as possible because now spectator and hd passes are sold. The bait and switch is complete.
They knew they had nothing to hype cause that invite list is underwhelming to say the least, so there was no point in spending a single cent on marketing this like anaheim. In fact, it was good use of marketing money, cause they saved some budget instead of spending it needlessly when it wasn't justified.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe they thought the risk to reward was good enough for them.
But yeah, atm we have to worst group stage seeds one could possibly have for an event.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
These are two different points. First one i specially say its not their fault. Why would they turn such an offer down? You know there are ppl like Jinro who turn down their Coda A invitation because they think they are not good enough. In my opinion that's not the players problem to think about how fair the inviteing process is. Exactly that's the reason why i emphasised it's NOT their fault. Second one. I don't say these players should not be invited. If they use the methode you explained then i say i don't like the methode MLG uses to invite the players. This is not directed towards the players and i don't see how it insults them. If those players would be idra, incontrol etc i would ask the same questions and i would also say that i don't like the methode MLG used. I don't see how the players could be personal offended by my words.
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
I think i stated that in every single last post i made. I think the best option would have been to give more seeds to the highest finisher in the open bracket. If the now invited players are good enough they will qualify through the open bracket and gain their seed that way. But there are also some other solutions that were at least better than the current one.
I'm sure they invited places 17-32 in the arena before inviting binski and Caliber.... most likely people in 17-32 turned it down because... shocker ... it's expensive to go to an MLG.
did you read my post? i didn't use the word ARENA i used the word OPEN BRACKET. this will be my last post on this matter btw. Seems like i wasted my time there. Nobody cares here anyway.
On a side note: You know i won't be happy if those players get slaughtered 0:5 in their group. I am always happy if foreigners/underdogs take game of koreans. But a lot of ppl will then say that their invites were not justified. If they qualify through the open bracket they at least achieve that. Even if they get slaughted after that they already achieved something! I think the way it is now these games won't be on the main stage and they will get less exposure than they would if they qualified for it. You will see hero TaeJa on the stage. The local scene doesn't get a lot of attention. Did you know that Socke the guy who had several amazing runs at MLG (e.g being the only player defeating DRG and being one game away from beeing first in his group in one of the last MLG) didn't had a single stage match yet? But this is a different topic. And you could also argue about how much sense it makes to have 2 tournaments at the same time...
You have the group play format completely wrong.
There is already eight "OPEN BRACKET" players that enter the group stage. The only way you could increase this without making it messy and dumb is to make it 16 which would be a logistical mess.
You can't go "0:5" in a group because each group is a double elimination bracket.
On August 23 2012 03:29 DarkSworn wrote: could someone please tell me who the f is saviorsc2 in this roster? not in sc i already know the real Ma Bonjwa
Already posted in this thread. Read through it before acting all rage like. (Hint: page 2)
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
People don't tune into MLG to watch Qxc, binski, or Gix go 0-5 in groupstage, hate to break it to you.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
People don't tune into MLG to watch Qxc, binski, or Gix go 0-5 in groupstage, hate to break it to you.
Hate to break it to you. Group stage doesn't work like that anymore. No, but people will start watching if one of them makes a decent run. It is not like that won't broadcast the big name matches in the open bracket. Sorry, I don't think thousands of people are going to be tuning out just because 3 out of the 24 invited spots are going to Binsiki, Gix and Caliber.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
People don't tune into MLG to watch Qxc, binski, or Gix go 0-5 in groupstage, hate to break it to you.
Hate to break it to you. Group stage doesn't work like that anymore.
I was disappointed like everyone else once I realize there was no Kespa players. Just look at it on the bright side, there's more room for American players to make a splash and make a name for themselves ! America fighting ~ :D
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. + Show Spoiler +
BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map
stand corrected, Lower bracket doesn't show up for me for some reason) into something it clearly was not meant to.
Lol who the hell are those invites? If MLG's plan to promote NA players is to throw them into a pack of wolves, then it won't go well. Day 1 looks like a total bore, especially if MLG ends up paywalling the matches between two good players.
On August 23 2012 04:00 ragz_gt wrote: BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
He got walkover-ed or forfeited R1 in winners to TubbyTheFat but he made it to the end of the losers bracket and just missed qualifying by going 1-2 to Illusion.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
giX was 1 round away from qualifying for Arena, seriously do you just not give 2 fucks about looking stuff up before insulting people?
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
giX was 1 round away from qualifying for Arena, seriously do you just not give 2 fucks about looking stuff up before insulting people?
On August 23 2012 04:00 ragz_gt wrote: BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
He got walkover-ed or forfeited R1 in winners to TubbyTheFat but he made it to the end of the losers bracket and just missed qualifying by going 1-2 to Illusion.
I stand corrected, lower bracket was closed as default for me for some reason so my search fails horribly. But point stand, as clearly the seed is not suppose to base on those who failed to move forward in regional qualifier.
On August 23 2012 04:04 setzer wrote: Lol who the hell are those invites? If MLG's plan to promote NA players is to throw them into a pack of wolves, then it won't go well. Day 1 looks like a total bore, especially if MLG ends up paywalling the matches between two good players.
They are the next highest qualifiers from the Summer Season who could go (or were already registered) to the Championship.
Judging by the schedule, it looks like it'll be the MLG Open Bracket and WCS Losers Bracket that will be paywalled (but possibly half the group matches won't be shown at all?)
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
ROFL. giX missed the WB matches and went to LB where he fought through everyone and was 1 match alway from making Arena. And guess who he beat on the way? Heart!!! The no brainer invite.
And the problem is the term 'best' player from open bracket. For the first few, there is probably universal agreement (MKP, Leenock,), it becomes a little muddy after that. With MLGs method, it is very clear cut.
On August 23 2012 04:04 setzer wrote: Lol who the hell are those invites? If MLG's plan to promote NA players is to throw them into a pack of wolves, then it won't go well. Day 1 looks like a total bore, especially if MLG ends up paywalling the matches between two good players.
These invites are people who did better than Idra, SeleCT, Huk in the NA Invite Qualifiers for Arena.
On August 23 2012 04:06 Dexington wrote: How did those invites get decided? Was it point seeding after the KESPA players couldn't come?
At first, I thought that's what it was, but it doesn't fit. It appears to be Summer qualifier result (Arena ranking taking priority of course, but only five of the bottom Arena finishers are attending).
GL to everyone playing.....Excited to see how some of the newer/ lesser known players will fair in the tourney.... alongside out old favorites and longstanding pros.
The amound of negativity in this thread is alarming.... [cant we just all get along and play SCII]
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
ROFL. giX missed the WB matches and went to LB where he fought through everyone and was 1 match alway from making Arena. And guess who he beat on the way? Heart!!! The no brainer invite.
They still seeded someone who lost in losers bracket of a NA only qualifier into the groupstage of one of the most prestigious tournaments in the world (at least before this lineup, which is their weakest in over 1.5 years). That's a "no brainer" invite? Someone who has a sub 50% winrate over the past 5 months with losses to pokebunny, trimaster, and drewbie. Yea ok.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
These are two different points. First one i specially say its not their fault. Why would they turn such an offer down? You know there are ppl like Jinro who turn down their Coda A invitation because they think they are not good enough. In my opinion that's not the players problem to think about how fair the inviteing process is. Exactly that's the reason why i emphasised it's NOT their fault. Second one. I don't say these players should not be invited. If they use the methode you explained then i say i don't like the methode MLG uses to invite the players. This is not directed towards the players and i don't see how it insults them. If those players would be idra, incontrol etc i would ask the same questions and i would also say that i don't like the methode MLG used. I don't see how the players could be personal offended by my words.
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
I think i stated that in every single last post i made. I think the best option would have been to give more seeds to the highest finisher in the open bracket. If the now invited players are good enough they will qualify through the open bracket and gain their seed that way. But there are also some other solutions that were at least better than the current one.
I'm sure they invited places 17-32 in the arena before inviting binski and Caliber.... most likely people in 17-32 turned it down because... shocker ... it's expensive to go to an MLG.
did you read my post? i didn't use the word ARENA i used the word OPEN BRACKET. this will be my last post on this matter btw. Seems like i wasted my time there. Nobody cares here anyway.
On a side note: You know i won't be happy if those players get slaughtered 0:5 in their group. I am always happy if foreigners/underdogs take game of koreans. But a lot of ppl will then say that their invites were not justified. If they qualify through the open bracket they at least achieve that. Even if they get slaughted after that they already achieved something! I think the way it is now these games won't be on the main stage and they will get less exposure than they would if they qualified for it. You will see hero TaeJa on the stage. The local scene doesn't get a lot of attention. Did you know that Socke the guy who had several amazing runs at MLG (e.g being the only player defeating DRG and being one game away from beeing first in his group in one of the last MLG) didn't had a single stage match yet? But this is a different topic. And you could also argue about how much sense it makes to have 2 tournaments at the same time...
You have the group play format completely wrong.
There is already eight "OPEN BRACKET" players that enter the group stage. The only way you could increase this without making it messy and dumb is to make it 16 which would be a logistical mess.
You have 16 addional players and only 8 addional seeds? Seems like an easy task not a logistical mess. Did you know that in the past the players did already play out all games? Example: it was not 28-32 place, they played for the 28th, 29th place etc. Wasn't impossible then isn't impossible now.
from a stream-viewers perspective, this could be the first time in almost two years that IEM has a better event than MLG.... besides the 3AM start, anyway
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
ROFL. giX missed the WB matches and went to LB where he fought through everyone and was 1 match alway from making Arena. And guess who he beat on the way? Heart!!! The no brainer invite.
They still seeded someone who lost in losers bracket of a NA only qualifier into the groupstage of one of the most prestigious tournaments in the world (at least before this lineup, which is their weakest in over 1.5 years). That's a "no brainer" invite? Someone who has a sub 50% winrate over the past 5 months with losses to pokebunny, trimaster, and drewbie. Yea ok.
Yeah, please read what I was responding to. He said Heart was a no brainer invite...
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
ROFL. giX missed the WB matches and went to LB where he fought through everyone and was 1 match alway from making Arena. And guess who he beat on the way? Heart!!! The no brainer invite.
And the problem is the term 'best' player from open bracket. For the first few, there is probably universal agreement (MKP, Leenock,), it becomes a little muddy after that. With MLGs method, it is very clear cut.
Agreed... this seems to be the most democratic way of determining seedings.
inb4 idra complains that wcs and mlg are running at the same time and why he was eliminated in both. sad kespa players can't go, I am sure they could have at least sent players from KT, don't see much hope for the future of this partnership.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
ROFL. giX missed the WB matches and went to LB where he fought through everyone and was 1 match alway from making Arena. And guess who he beat on the way? Heart!!! The no brainer invite.
And the problem is the term 'best' player from open bracket. For the first few, there is probably universal agreement (MKP, Leenock,), it becomes a little muddy after that. With MLGs method, it is very clear cut.
See above correction re giX. How is inviting people who failed to move on to arena in a qualifier as seed for actual tournament group a good solution?
BTW, both MKP already qualified for Arena with his MLG spring champ result. And giX, Caliber, binski, obviously did not qualify for the Arena. What's the reasoning of choosing someone who failed to qualify as basis of seed over someone who already qualified?
The goal is not to make it "clear cut", is to get it right, or as close to as possible. You can make a arbitrary qualification that's "clear cut", but it's pretty worthless when it says giX, Caliber, binski is a better seed than ThorZaiN or Heart. It's like saying Juan Pierre is a better baseball player than Ryan Braun because he have a better average.
Group D looks so boring Its been a while since I have seen such a weak group in a serious tournament. All the NA seeds will get destroyed so hard and nobody will care.
On August 23 2012 04:17 Waxangel wrote: from a stream-viewers perspective, this could be the first time in almost two years that IEM has a better event than MLG.... besides the 3AM start, anyway
that is definitely true. But i have to say the IEM Cologne line up was really sick this time! A lot better than it used to be.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
ROFL. giX missed the WB matches and went to LB where he fought through everyone and was 1 match alway from making Arena. And guess who he beat on the way? Heart!!! The no brainer invite.
And the problem is the term 'best' player from open bracket. For the first few, there is probably universal agreement (MKP, Leenock,), it becomes a little muddy after that. With MLGs method, it is very clear cut.
Agreed... this seems to be the most democratic way of determining seedings.
The funny thing is that due to NA getting fewer spots in the Arena due to poor performance in recent seasons, it actually has an advantage when the tiebreaker goes past the Arena results, since 7th-9th in NA Invite Qualifier > 10th in EU or KR Invite Qualifier (but in order to get that far, there were several EU and KR players from the Arena who couldn't make it).
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
These are two different points. First one i specially say its not their fault. Why would they turn such an offer down? You know there are ppl like Jinro who turn down their Coda A invitation because they think they are not good enough. In my opinion that's not the players problem to think about how fair the inviteing process is. Exactly that's the reason why i emphasised it's NOT their fault. Second one. I don't say these players should not be invited. If they use the methode you explained then i say i don't like the methode MLG uses to invite the players. This is not directed towards the players and i don't see how it insults them. If those players would be idra, incontrol etc i would ask the same questions and i would also say that i don't like the methode MLG used. I don't see how the players could be personal offended by my words.
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
I think i stated that in every single last post i made. I think the best option would have been to give more seeds to the highest finisher in the open bracket. If the now invited players are good enough they will qualify through the open bracket and gain their seed that way. But there are also some other solutions that were at least better than the current one.
I'm sure they invited places 17-32 in the arena before inviting binski and Caliber.... most likely people in 17-32 turned it down because... shocker ... it's expensive to go to an MLG.
did you read my post? i didn't use the word ARENA i used the word OPEN BRACKET. this will be my last post on this matter btw. Seems like i wasted my time there. Nobody cares here anyway.
On a side note: You know i won't be happy if those players get slaughtered 0:5 in their group. I am always happy if foreigners/underdogs take game of koreans. But a lot of ppl will then say that their invites were not justified. If they qualify through the open bracket they at least achieve that. Even if they get slaughted after that they already achieved something! I think the way it is now these games won't be on the main stage and they will get less exposure than they would if they qualified for it. You will see hero TaeJa on the stage. The local scene doesn't get a lot of attention. Did you know that Socke the guy who had several amazing runs at MLG (e.g being the only player defeating DRG and being one game away from beeing first in his group in one of the last MLG) didn't had a single stage match yet? But this is a different topic. And you could also argue about how much sense it makes to have 2 tournaments at the same time...
You have the group play format completely wrong.
There is already eight "OPEN BRACKET" players that enter the group stage. The only way you could increase this without making it messy and dumb is to make it 16 which would be a logistical mess.
You have 16 addional players and only 8 addional seeds? Seems like an easy task not a logistical mess. Did you know that in the past the players did already play out all games? Example: it was not 28-32 place, they played for the 28th, 29th place etc. Wasn't impossible then isn't impossible now.
Yes, you could have put the LB winners in groups and the LB finals loser to championship LB. However, you have a scenario where both the WB winner and LB winner are put in the same spot and people will claim that is 'unfair'. Please they have to run WCS NA at the same time so logistics MIT not be as easy as it seems.
I don't know about this .. Groups seeds seem pretty fucked up, looks like random order, no advantage of being 5th over 6th, 12th is better than 9-10-11th...
Still going to watch it but this might be pretty boring if the open bracket doesn't give some surprises and eliminates leenock/mkp/crank during the first rounds ..
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
The best method?
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
ROFL. giX missed the WB matches and went to LB where he fought through everyone and was 1 match alway from making Arena. And guess who he beat on the way? Heart!!! The no brainer invite.
See above correction re giX. How is inviting people who failed to move on to arena in a qualifier as seed for actual tournament group a good solution?
BTW, both MKP already qualified for Arena with his MLG spring champ result. And giX, Caliber, binski, obviously did not qualify for the Arena. What's the reasoning of choosing someone who failed to qualify as basis of seed over someone who already qualified?
We don't know that MKP wasn't offered a spot. Apparently, these extra Group Play invites don't come with travel covered (see earlier comments from Xeris), and that has a big impact on the ability of those outside of NA to attaend.
Well, these spots were meant for 8 kespa players, so they were never intended to be based off seeds of their qualifier, they were their to invite the big names. Now we realize that the big names they originally wanted couldn't come. In my head, it only makes logical sense to invite the equivalent of what Kespa would have brought. Big high caliber players/names.
Instead they took the seeding method, which is a viable option and makes sense based off their seeds, but the bad one. Those 8 spots were worth about 20k watchers.
Your players aren't gonna bring 20k watchers, see my point. Not trying to bash, just using the logics from a business standpoint and fan standpoint.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
ROFL. giX missed the WB matches and went to LB where he fought through everyone and was 1 match alway from making Arena. And guess who he beat on the way? Heart!!! The no brainer invite.
See above correction re giX. How is inviting people who failed to move on to arena in a qualifier as seed for actual tournament group a good solution?
BTW, both MKP already qualified for Arena with his MLG spring champ result. And giX, Caliber, binski, obviously did not qualify for the Arena. What's the reasoning of choosing someone who failed to qualify as basis of seed over someone who already qualified?
We don't know that MKP wasn't offered a spot. Apparently, these extra Group Play invites don't come with travel covered (see earlier comments from Xeris), and that has a big impact on the ability of those outside of NA to attaend.
He is in the open bracket (so is Leenock, who qualified for Arena after MKP dropped out, and his spot was taken by Grubby). I'm sure if he was offered a spot he would accept.
Actually, if they just wanted viewers, they should just have Idra vs Stephano. Kind of funny that GSL gets shiat on for inviting big name foreigners to draw more viewers. And MLG gets shiat for giving spots to 'no names' who did well in the qualifiers.
GSL for inviting big name player who are bad. MLG for giving spots to 'no names' who are bad. Solution, invite better players, for both case. (There was not much outrage for GSL seed to NaNiwa / Polt / viOLet / ThorZaIN besides the standard "against any seed" crowd, as opposite to seed to Huk / IdrA )
So there are 3 non-arena seeds. Who would get them? MKP, Leenock AND???
Nonono.... they ALREADY messed up by this time, as my earlier post suggested:
On August 23 2012 03:07 ragz_gt wrote: It's not like MLG doesn't know they messed up royally, which is why they hid the invites for as long as possible (and a couple extra days anyway). The question is why they reserved 8 seeds for KeSPA player they obviously expected to get when it's even more obviously not going to happen. It's like reserve a 8 seats at a restaurant without confirming and hope 8 people you know would just show up. Except 100x worse.
Why would they just randomly reserve 8 spot BEFORE they can confirm they can GET 8 people worthy of seeding?
Maybe Kespa did promise to send players and backed out? Players withdraw from events all the time. Leenock withdraw from Arena. Like you said, they were already in a bad spot. And any invites would have been seen in a negative light.
And you said 'invite better players'. So whom would you have invited?
They could just bite the bullet and promote best player from open bracket:
MKP Leenock ThorZain Heart are no brainer And then 4 from Killer Select, theSTC, the 8 current seeds, Someone from EG or Root etc
The point is to make best of a bad situation, not by try to make a bad situation unsalvageable by trying to stuff their "North American Invite-Only Qualifier" (which is where the current seeds are based on apparently. BTW: Gix actually lost in the first round, or forfeited, in that, so his seed is based on him being invited to a qualifier and not win a single map) into something it clearly was not meant to.
ROFL. giX missed the WB matches and went to LB where he fought through everyone and was 1 match alway from making Arena. And guess who he beat on the way? Heart!!! The no brainer invite.
See above correction re giX. How is inviting people who failed to move on to arena in a qualifier as seed for actual tournament group a good solution?
BTW, both MKP already qualified for Arena with his MLG spring champ result. And giX, Caliber, binski, obviously did not qualify for the Arena. What's the reasoning of choosing someone who failed to qualify as basis of seed over someone who already qualified?
We don't know that MKP wasn't offered a spot. Apparently, these extra Group Play invites don't come with travel covered (see earlier comments from Xeris), and that has a big impact on the ability of those outside of NA to attaend.
He is in the pool play. I'm sure if he was offered a spot he would accept.
Whoops. Guess he's just paying the price for skipping out on Arena to focus on WCS KR preliminaries.
On August 23 2012 02:53 Xeris wrote: Saying "its not their fault they're invited" is like an insult. At least it appears to me to be an insult in that you're saying they shouldn't be invited because it's "not the right way."
These are two different points. First one i specially say its not their fault. Why would they turn such an offer down? You know there are ppl like Jinro who turn down their Coda A invitation because they think they are not good enough. In my opinion that's not the players problem to think about how fair the inviteing process is. Exactly that's the reason why i emphasised it's NOT their fault. Second one. I don't say these players should not be invited. If they use the methode you explained then i say i don't like the methode MLG uses to invite the players. This is not directed towards the players and i don't see how it insults them. If those players would be idra, incontrol etc i would ask the same questions and i would also say that i don't like the methode MLG used. I don't see how the players could be personal offended by my words.
What, to you, would be the right way?
It seems like the best method of inviting players is based on performance in your events. Therefore:
Invite 17-32 place at Arena Invite the next highest people on the list from the Arena qualifiers
It seems like MLG followed the most objective criteria. What way would be better in your opinion? Not like MLG can just afford to fly in random invites, they don't have infinite money
I think i stated that in every single last post i made. I think the best option would have been to give more seeds to the highest finisher in the open bracket. If the now invited players are good enough they will qualify through the open bracket and gain their seed that way. But there are also some other solutions that were at least better than the current one.
I'm sure they invited places 17-32 in the arena before inviting binski and Caliber.... most likely people in 17-32 turned it down because... shocker ... it's expensive to go to an MLG.
did you read my post? i didn't use the word ARENA i used the word OPEN BRACKET. this will be my last post on this matter btw. Seems like i wasted my time there. Nobody cares here anyway.
On a side note: You know i won't be happy if those players get slaughtered 0:5 in their group. I am always happy if foreigners/underdogs take game of koreans. But a lot of ppl will then say that their invites were not justified. If they qualify through the open bracket they at least achieve that. Even if they get slaughted after that they already achieved something! I think the way it is now these games won't be on the main stage and they will get less exposure than they would if they qualified for it. You will see hero TaeJa on the stage. The local scene doesn't get a lot of attention. Did you know that Socke the guy who had several amazing runs at MLG (e.g being the only player defeating DRG and being one game away from beeing first in his group in one of the last MLG) didn't had a single stage match yet? But this is a different topic. And you could also argue about how much sense it makes to have 2 tournaments at the same time...
You have the group play format completely wrong.
There is already eight "OPEN BRACKET" players that enter the group stage. The only way you could increase this without making it messy and dumb is to make it 16 which would be a logistical mess.
You have 16 addional players and only 8 addional seeds? Seems like an easy task not a logistical mess. Did you know that in the past the players did already play out all games? Example: it was not 28-32 place, they played for the 28th, 29th place etc. Wasn't impossible then isn't impossible now.
Well, let's use our brains and think this through shall we? Currently there are 6 players in a group out of a total of 8. Two more will join from the open bracket.
Since each group is a double elimination bracket and not a round robin, it is most logical that the highest seed in that group will play the lowest seed. The two open bracket qualifiers would have the lowest seeds. This means 1 would play 8, 2 would play 7, and so on.
You see that on Friday, Group WR1 as well as the open bracket (OWR1) is played at the same time. On Saturday, you see that there are 2 more Group WR1 played. This is after OWR6. The 8 winners of OWR6 will enter the groups. This would mean that on Friday, matches 3 v 6 and 4 v 5 would probably be played while 1 v 8 and 2 v 7 would probably be played on Saturday.
If 16 players came from the open bracket, that would mean 4 players enter each group from the open bracket. That is half the group. Seeds 5-8. That means none of the matches in the Groups can be played until the open bracket is finished. This means on Saturday, ALL the group brackets must be finished which would cause a time restraint as well as SIGNIFICANTLY less content for MLG to show.
The way the seeds worked is smarter than you think. There is no good solution to the KeSPA players not showing up. This is just made with what they had. It is okay to be disappointed but let MLG do their thing.
And just another FYI, most consolation matches in the past (29th, 30th, etc) were done by rock paper scissors and coin flips because unless that placing gave a larger prize, no one cared. In that scenario the tournament can also continue while the matches are being played because they are not waiting for 29th or 30th place.
On August 23 2012 04:16 OrbitalPlane wrote: [You have 16 addional players and only 8 addional seeds? Seems like an easy task not a logistical mess. Did you know that in the past the players did already play out all games? Example: it was not 28-32 place, they played for the 28th, 29th place etc. Wasn't impossible then isn't impossible now.
Yes, you could have put the LB winners in groups and the LB finals loser to championship LB. However, you have a scenario where both the WB winner and LB winner are put in the same spot and people will claim that is 'unfair'. Please they have to run WCS NA at the same time so logistics MIT not be as easy as it seems.
It's really not that complicated. There are 8 open brackets. The winner of each final advances. The looser of the final plays the last guy remaining in the looserbracket. Winners of those advance, loosers get in the championchip bracket.
This is not difficult hard to understand, it's not difficult to organize and it's not unfair to anyone.
Edit: @Ursadon-n-Pals You definitely have some good points there. But i think with some adjustments they could still do it.It's not like they were showing every group match anway. There are also a lot of good open bracket matches that could be shown. But i see and agree that the schedule would need a lot of work.
On August 23 2012 04:16 OrbitalPlane wrote: [You have 16 addional players and only 8 addional seeds? Seems like an easy task not a logistical mess. Did you know that in the past the players did already play out all games? Example: it was not 28-32 place, they played for the 28th, 29th place etc. Wasn't impossible then isn't impossible now.
Yes, you could have put the LB winners in groups and the LB finals loser to championship LB. However, you have a scenario where both the WB winner and LB winner are put in the same spot and people will claim that is 'unfair'. Please they have to run WCS NA at the same time so logistics MIT not be as easy as it seems.
It's really not that complicated. There are 8 open brackets. The winner of each final advances. The looser of the final plays the last guy remaining in the looserbracket. Winners of those advance, loosers get in the championchip bracket.
This is not difficult hard to understand, it's not difficult to organize and it's not unfair to anyone.
That would also require a re-work of the schedule, as the current schedule has the Open Loser's Bracket finishing up around the same time as the first two Group Play finals.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
so they should be seeded ahead of multiple MLG winners like MKP? rofl
Yes, because they actually played in the last MLG event, and MKP didn't. If you're awarding seeds based on performances in the last event and qualifiers, why would you seed a player who didn't participate in those?
Does MKP deserve a seed for his skill level? Yes. But that isn't the only pre-requisite for awarding a seed in this instance.
I, personally, am glad that MLG aren't pushing these seeds into worthless places - Players who can practically be relied upon to make it through an open bracket.
I don't think anyone seriously expects that MKP can't make it into pool play from where he is. Why does it matter if he's seeded or not? If anything this only means we get more games from MKP to watch, while some "no names" who have shown GENUINE PROMISE in previous MLG events, have been given a chance to start out on a main stage where they can prove to themselves and others that they deserve those seeds.
Stuff like this stops the scene from being an incestuous mess where MKP, MVP, MMA, DRG and Stephano are the only players invited to anything ever. Its a good thing. Treat it like one.
so these groups.... mlg seems to of dug itself a massive hole. firstly, seeding is partially randomised? 2 liquid players in the groups, forced in to a possible teamkill situation, what the shit mlg? it took you 2 years to get rid of extended series and then you do stuff like this.
secondly, everyone praised the double bracket situation at the arena to build the hype, the finals 'meant' something more because it wasnt a double BoX, but now because players from opposite brackets didnt play each other, you dont actually know who finished in what position, so youre seeding in the top 8 from that but you dont actually know your own top 8.... not smart.
thirdly, why are all 3 of the replacement players american? after the 32 at the arena have been asked about attendance why have you just taken 3 americans? you yourselves accept the american scene is by far the weakest, by offering less seeds in to the arena from the NA qualifier, and yet when it comes to the championship you just invite 3 extra americans? bit of a dick move.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
so they should be seeded ahead of multiple MLG winners like MKP? rofl
Yes, because they actually played in the last MLG event, and MKP didn't. If you're awarding seeds based on performances in the last event and qualifiers, why would you seed a player who didn't participate in those?
Does MKP deserve a seed for his skill level? Yes. But that isn't the only pre-requisite for awarding a seed in this instance.
I, personally, am glad that MLG aren't pushing these seeds into worthless places - Players who can practically be relied upon to make it through an open bracket.
I don't think anyone seriously expects that MKP can't make it into pool play from where he is. Why does it matter if he's seeded or not? If anything this only means we get more games from MKP to watch, while some "no names" who have shown GENUINE PROMISE in previous MLG events, have been given a chance to start out on a main stage where they can prove to themselves and others that they deserve those seeds.
Stuff like this stops the scene from being an incestuous mess where MKP, MVP, MMA, DRG and Stephano are the only players invited to anything ever. Its a good thing. Treat it like one.
as i just stated in my post, which obviously you havent read yet. the 3 americans tacked on the end didnt play in the arena, they failed to qualify. they are infact the 3 next in line purely of the american qualifier, not 1 from each. and certainly the 3 weakest choices. at best theyve failed to select 1 from each qualifier to make things "fair" at worst they intentionally picked the 3 weakest players they could, purely to bolster the american numbers present.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
so they should be seeded ahead of multiple MLG winners like MKP? rofl
Yes, because they actually played in the last MLG event, and MKP didn't. If you're awarding seeds based on performances in the last event and qualifiers, why would you seed a player who didn't participate in those?
Does MKP deserve a seed for his skill level? Yes. But that isn't the only pre-requisite for awarding a seed in this instance.
I, personally, am glad that MLG aren't pushing these seeds into worthless places - Players who can practically be relied upon to make it through an open bracket.
I don't think anyone seriously expects that MKP can't make it into pool play from where he is. Why does it matter if he's seeded or not? If anything this only means we get more games from MKP to watch, while some "no names" who have shown GENUINE PROMISE in previous MLG events, have been given a chance to start out on a main stage where they can prove to themselves and others that they deserve those seeds.
Stuff like this stops the scene from being an incestuous mess where MKP, MVP, MMA, DRG and Stephano are the only players invited to anything ever. Its a good thing. Treat it like one.
No, they didn't play in the last MLG event (Arena) because they failed to qualify in the Regional Qualifier. MKP actually qualified for the Arena but chose not to go due to GSL / WCS. So apparently the logic is someone who didn't qualify >>> someone who qualified and forfeited.
I'm sure MKP (and Leenock) can do fine whereever they are. But the fact that they chose who they chose for the Seed means less deserving player can make into group play.
And this is exactly why I didn't like that MLG change the format to give free seeds! Seriously MLG you got the arena where people can actually qualify and you would have avoided this mess. I got no idea how most of these people even got there seed
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
so they should be seeded ahead of multiple MLG winners like MKP? rofl
Yes, because they actually played in the last MLG event, and MKP didn't. If you're awarding seeds based on performances in the last event and qualifiers, why would you seed a player who didn't participate in those?
Does MKP deserve a seed for his skill level? Yes. But that isn't the only pre-requisite for awarding a seed in this instance.
I, personally, am glad that MLG aren't pushing these seeds into worthless places - Players who can practically be relied upon to make it through an open bracket.
I don't think anyone seriously expects that MKP can't make it into pool play from where he is. Why does it matter if he's seeded or not? If anything this only means we get more games from MKP to watch, while some "no names" who have shown GENUINE PROMISE in previous MLG events, have been given a chance to start out on a main stage where they can prove to themselves and others that they deserve those seeds.
Stuff like this stops the scene from being an incestuous mess where MKP, MVP, MMA, DRG and Stephano are the only players invited to anything ever. Its a good thing. Treat it like one.
No, they didn't play in the last MLG event (Arena) because they failed to qualify in the Regional Qualifier. MKP actually qualified for the Arena but chose not to go due to GSL / WCS. So apparently the logic is someone who didn't qualify >>> someone who qualified and forfeited.
On August 23 2012 04:48 turdburgler wrote: so these groups. mlg seems to of dug itself a massive hole. firstly, seeding is partially randomised? 2 liquid players in the groups, forced in to a possible teamkill situation, what the shit mlg? it took you 2 years to get rid of extended series and then you do stuff like this.
secondly, everyone praised the double bracket situation at the arena to build the hype, the finals 'meant' something more because it wasnt a double BoX, but now because players from opposite brackets didnt play each other, you dont actually know who finished in what position, so youre seeding in the top 8 from that but you dont actually know your own top 8.... not smart.
thirdly, why are all 3 of the replacement players american? after the 32 at the arena have been asked about attendance why have you just taken 3 americans? you yourselves accept the american scene is by far the weakest, by offering less seeds in to the arena from the NA qualifier, and yet when it comes to the championship you just invite 3 extra americans? bit of a dick move.
Extended series is still in, and will likely factor in a couple of times in the Groups and possibly in the Semifinals of the Championship Bracket. It's just that (for example) a match on Friday won't trigger an extended series on Sunday.
By their own rules, the first loser of the NA qualifer (7th place) gets priority over the first losers of the EU and KR qualifiers (10th place), because 7th is better than 10th. There were about 11 players (can't be bothered to double check exact number) who had to decline before it got that far anyway.>_>
On August 23 2012 04:56 jobber123rd wrote: Extended series is still in, and will likely factor in a couple of times in the Groups and possibly in the Semifinals of the Championship Bracket.
Like Pool Play, Group Play placement will determine a player’s starting position in the Championship Bracket. And like the Open Bracket, Group Play match history will not be carried over into the third stage of the Event.
So i am not completely sure what this means. I haven't been thinking it through if there is still the possibility of extended series.
Stop crying everybody, the people that got into the group play are because of their Performance in MLG Arena/ Mlg Online Qualifiers so from all the MLG Arena people, the people that are coming to MLG Summer Championship got the seed, since few people dropped out and decided not to go, it opened up more spots for the other people which means high seeded players from online MLG Qualifiers were able to get a seed into the group play like Binski, Gix, Caliber and so on~
On August 23 2012 05:02 Everize wrote: Stop crying everybody, the people that got into the group play are because of their Performance in MLG Arena/ Mlg Online Qualifiers so from all the MLG Arena people, the people that are coming to MLG Summer Championship got the seed, since few people dropped out and decided not to go, it opened up more spots for the other people which means high seeded players from online MLG Qualifiers were able to get a seed into the group play like Binski, Gix, Caliber and so on~
but if you read what i said. you would know what this isnt the case.
mlg havent updated their site with information reguarding drop outs etc so we have absolutely no idea how they decided who got invited, they havent posted how they worked out seeding between players that werent even in the same bracket, they havent explained their group selection for the championship.
they havent even updated their site about the arena so we cant investigate from that far back either
not to jump on the hate train too much, but they even let shit like this happen
how the fuck do you give a guy a walk over rather than ask the previous knocked out person to play instead in an online cup?
but they dont release the information so we just have this huge mess where it 'feels' like people are invited and seeded at complete random. remember when mlg cut half their staff so they could refocus on 'doing what they did best', running a league. well its not really working out is it.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
so they should be seeded ahead of multiple MLG winners like MKP? rofl
Yes, because they actually played in the last MLG event, and MKP didn't. If you're awarding seeds based on performances in the last event and qualifiers, why would you seed a player who didn't participate in those?
Does MKP deserve a seed for his skill level? Yes. But that isn't the only pre-requisite for awarding a seed in this instance.
I, personally, am glad that MLG aren't pushing these seeds into worthless places - Players who can practically be relied upon to make it through an open bracket.
I don't think anyone seriously expects that MKP can't make it into pool play from where he is. Why does it matter if he's seeded or not? If anything this only means we get more games from MKP to watch, while some "no names" who have shown GENUINE PROMISE in previous MLG events, have been given a chance to start out on a main stage where they can prove to themselves and others that they deserve those seeds.
Stuff like this stops the scene from being an incestuous mess where MKP, MVP, MMA, DRG and Stephano are the only players invited to anything ever. Its a good thing. Treat it like one.
No, they didn't play in the last MLG event (Arena) because they failed to qualify in the Regional Qualifier. MKP actually qualified for the Arena but chose not to go due to GSL / WCS. So apparently the logic is someone who didn't qualify >>> someone who qualified and forfeited.
I'm sure MKP (and Leenock) can do fine whereever they are. But the fact that they chose who they chose for the Seed means less deserving player can make into group play.
Yep. For all that, MKP hasn't posted a result in the Summer season, and by MLG rules, that puts him behind everyone else who has done so -- even those who got taken out in the Open qualifiers (such as nadaviking).
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
so they should be seeded ahead of multiple MLG winners like MKP? rofl
Yes, because they actually played in the last MLG event, and MKP didn't. If you're awarding seeds based on performances in the last event and qualifiers, why would you seed a player who didn't participate in those?
Does MKP deserve a seed for his skill level? Yes. But that isn't the only pre-requisite for awarding a seed in this instance.
I, personally, am glad that MLG aren't pushing these seeds into worthless places - Players who can practically be relied upon to make it through an open bracket.
I don't think anyone seriously expects that MKP can't make it into pool play from where he is. Why does it matter if he's seeded or not? If anything this only means we get more games from MKP to watch, while some "no names" who have shown GENUINE PROMISE in previous MLG events, have been given a chance to start out on a main stage where they can prove to themselves and others that they deserve those seeds.
Stuff like this stops the scene from being an incestuous mess where MKP, MVP, MMA, DRG and Stephano are the only players invited to anything ever. Its a good thing. Treat it like one.
No, they didn't play in the last MLG event (Arena) because they failed to qualify in the Regional Qualifier. MKP actually qualified for the Arena but chose not to go due to GSL / WCS. So apparently the logic is someone who didn't qualify >>> someone who qualified and forfeited.
I'm sure MKP (and Leenock) can do fine whereever they are. But the fact that they chose who they chose for the Seed means less deserving player can make into group play.
Yep. For all that, MKP hasn't posted a result in the Summer season, and by MLG rules, that puts him behind everyone else who has done so -- even those who got taken out in the Open qualifiers (such as nadaviking).
This is what doesn't make sense. MKP qualified for summer arena, but had to forfeit. People who played in qualifiers, but didn't qualify for summer arena, gained seeding points. However, MKP who was already qualified had no reason to play in any qualifier, so therefore had 0 opportunity to gain any seeding points. Therefore, he gets 0 seeding points for actually qualifying, but then forfeiting.
On August 23 2012 04:56 jobber123rd wrote: Extended series is still in, and will likely factor in a couple of times in the Groups and possibly in the Semifinals of the Championship Bracket.
Like Pool Play, Group Play placement will determine a player’s starting position in the Championship Bracket. And like the Open Bracket, Group Play match history will not be carried over into the third stage of the Event.
So i am not completely sure what this means. I haven't been thinking it through if there is still the possibility of extended series.
It means that if A > B in the Open bracket, it won't turn their meeting in the Championship Losers Bracket into an extended series. However, if C > D in Championship Winners R1 and D comes back through the LB to play C in the semifinal, then that will be an extended series (as will the case of a semifinal where the WB and LB players haven't met, and the LB player wins the initial Bo3).
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
so they should be seeded ahead of multiple MLG winners like MKP? rofl
Yes, because they actually played in the last MLG event, and MKP didn't. If you're awarding seeds based on performances in the last event and qualifiers, why would you seed a player who didn't participate in those?
Does MKP deserve a seed for his skill level? Yes. But that isn't the only pre-requisite for awarding a seed in this instance.
I, personally, am glad that MLG aren't pushing these seeds into worthless places - Players who can practically be relied upon to make it through an open bracket.
I don't think anyone seriously expects that MKP can't make it into pool play from where he is. Why does it matter if he's seeded or not? If anything this only means we get more games from MKP to watch, while some "no names" who have shown GENUINE PROMISE in previous MLG events, have been given a chance to start out on a main stage where they can prove to themselves and others that they deserve those seeds.
Stuff like this stops the scene from being an incestuous mess where MKP, MVP, MMA, DRG and Stephano are the only players invited to anything ever. Its a good thing. Treat it like one.
No, they didn't play in the last MLG event (Arena) because they failed to qualify in the Regional Qualifier. MKP actually qualified for the Arena but chose not to go due to GSL / WCS. So apparently the logic is someone who didn't qualify >>> someone who qualified and forfeited.
I'm sure MKP (and Leenock) can do fine whereever they are. But the fact that they chose who they chose for the Seed means less deserving player can make into group play.
Yep. For all that, MKP hasn't posted a result in the Summer season, and by MLG rules, that puts him behind everyone else who has done so -- even those who got taken out in the Open qualifiers (such as nadaviking).
What rules? Weren't these seeds originally for invites, for the Kespa players? Did the kespa players play in the Summer Arena?
So when the high profile players they were planning to invite don't show up, what does MLG do? Do they find equally high profile players, or at least as close as they can get, and give them the invites instead? No, they give the invite seeds to a bunch of no-names who couldn't even make it through the weakest region of their arena qualifiers. Yeah, that makes so much sense.
Mah it's shady but who cares about ladder. The seeding is based on NA Qualifier, which I don't agree with, but have absolutely nothing to do with his ladder performance.
On August 23 2012 02:05 SeggsyLori wrote: Binski, Caliber, Sasquash, Gix? Never heared of them WTF!??!?!
Binski and Caliber are on LighT and both really great players, im expecting them to do really well Sasquash is in the CoL academy and Gix is on Legion
these 4 players are really good up and comers that can really hold there own. Dont doubt them. Im sure there going to show there true talent here
i'll give you Gix, and possibly Sasquash, but Caliber and Binski will fall at the first non NA pro
Last MLG, Caliber was knocked out by Hawke, who went 2:1 against Monster, and Monster had an amazing run that tournament. Binski was knocked out by Illusion, who is flat out really good.
so they should be seeded ahead of multiple MLG winners like MKP? rofl
Yes, because they actually played in the last MLG event, and MKP didn't. If you're awarding seeds based on performances in the last event and qualifiers, why would you seed a player who didn't participate in those?
Does MKP deserve a seed for his skill level? Yes. But that isn't the only pre-requisite for awarding a seed in this instance.
I, personally, am glad that MLG aren't pushing these seeds into worthless places - Players who can practically be relied upon to make it through an open bracket.
I don't think anyone seriously expects that MKP can't make it into pool play from where he is. Why does it matter if he's seeded or not? If anything this only means we get more games from MKP to watch, while some "no names" who have shown GENUINE PROMISE in previous MLG events, have been given a chance to start out on a main stage where they can prove to themselves and others that they deserve those seeds.
Stuff like this stops the scene from being an incestuous mess where MKP, MVP, MMA, DRG and Stephano are the only players invited to anything ever. Its a good thing. Treat it like one.
No, they didn't play in the last MLG event (Arena) because they failed to qualify in the Regional Qualifier. MKP actually qualified for the Arena but chose not to go due to GSL / WCS. So apparently the logic is someone who didn't qualify >>> someone who qualified and forfeited.
I'm sure MKP (and Leenock) can do fine whereever they are. But the fact that they chose who they chose for the Seed means less deserving player can make into group play.
Yep. For all that, MKP hasn't posted a result in the Summer season, and by MLG rules, that puts him behind everyone else who has done so -- even those who got taken out in the Open qualifiers (such as nadaviking).
What rules? Weren't these seeds originally for invites, for the Kespa players? Did the kespa players play in the Summer Arena?
So when the high profile players they were planning to invite don't show up, what does MLG do? Do they find equally high profile players, or as close as they can get, and give them the invites instead? No, they give the invite seeds to a bunch of no-names who couldn't even make it through the weakest region of their arena qualifiers. Yeah, that makes so much sense.
The rules for seeding non-Arena players. Of course, they were going to break their own procedure to allow for the KeSPA players (and, in fact, the new Group Play format seems tailor-made to accomodate the extra eight players, but that's just my opinion).
2. The Top 24 Summer Arena Players will start in Group Play and be seeded #1-24 based on the Summer Arena Standings. If Summer Arena Consolation Matches were played they will be used to break ties. Ties that can’t be broken by Consolation Matches will be broken by MLG Rank and then randomly. 3. Players will be seeded #1-208 for the Open Bracket based on the following criteria in this order: Summer Arena Standings, Summer Invite-Only Online Qualifier Standings, Summer Open Online Qualifier Standings, and MLG Rank. If Summer Arena or Summer Invite-Only Online Qualifier Consolation Matches were played, they may be used to break ties. Ties may also be broken using the next available criterion or randomly. Players who didn’t participate in the Summer Arena, didn’t participate in a Summer Invite-Only Online Qualifier, failed to finish in the top 32 of a Summer Open Online Qualifier, and have no MLG Rank will be seeded randomly.
Mah it's shady but who cares about ladder. The seeding is based on NA Qualifier, which I don't agree with, but have absolutely nothing to do with his ladder performance.
Most of those games are 1 or 2 minutes long. Thats messed up. Some kind of drop hack?
Mah it's shady but who cares about ladder. The seeding is based on NA Qualifier, which I don't agree with, but have absolutely nothing to do with his ladder performance.
Most of those games are 1 or 2 minutes long. Thats messed up. Some kind of drop hack?
It's probably just they know each other and he asked the other guy to boost his points. at high GM it's normal to keep run into same person 5+ time in a row, especially during odd hours. I remember seeing MKP run into JKS like 7-8 time in a row on stream.
So the 1-8 seeds from MLG Summer Arena will obviously face strong guys from the Open Bracket like MKP and seeds 9-16 will face the NA guys from the NA qualifier, ahah, seems fair!
Sorry for the people who don't know me/are disappointed I'm in the group stages I didn't expect it but I've been trying my best since finishing high school and moving to the compLexity house for the summer so I hope I can put forward a good result to prove I'm worth the spot. It's also incredibly likely I'll just go out quickly depending on who I play, but I'll try my best!
On August 23 2012 05:45 ASasquatch wrote: Sorry for the people who don't know me/are disappointed I'm in the group stages I didn't expect it but I've been trying my best since finishing high school and moving to the compLexity house for the summer so I hope I can put forward a good result to prove I'm worth the spot. It's also incredibly likely I'll just go out quickly depending on who I play, but I'll try my best!
It's not your fault man. You were given an opportunity and you took it. No one's going to give you shit for trying to pursue your career and passion. We are mad with MLG.
Anyway, good luck! Your group is definitely doable lol.
On August 23 2012 05:45 ASasquatch wrote: Sorry for the people who don't know me/are disappointed I'm in the group stages I didn't expect it but I've been trying my best since finishing high school and moving to the compLexity house for the summer so I hope I can put forward a good result to prove I'm worth the spot. It's also incredibly likely I'll just go out quickly depending on who I play, but I'll try my best!
I don't think people are mainly talking about you, if I recall correctly, you did decently at Arena and earned your spot more than people who got far in the qualifiers. Nothing against those guys obviously, if they produce good matches I couln't care less about how they got there.
On August 23 2012 03:10 Starcraft2Viewer wrote: Why is nobody talking about the fact that Desrow may be the biggest sleeper in this tournament.
I can see him crushing the open bracket and then meeting Taeja in the finals. It would be a toss-up between these two players to take down the championship in my opinion, but I may have to give the edge to chief Panda because his PvT is godlike.
On August 23 2012 05:45 ASasquatch wrote: Sorry for the people who don't know me/are disappointed I'm in the group stages I didn't expect it but I've been trying my best since finishing high school and moving to the compLexity house for the summer so I hope I can put forward a good result to prove I'm worth the spot. It's also incredibly likely I'll just go out quickly depending on who I play, but I'll try my best!
It's not your fault man. You were given an opportunity and you took it. No one's going to give you shit for trying to pursue your career and passion. We are mad with MLG.
Anyway, good luck! Your group is definitely doable lol.
Yeah, we will definitely be root for you. And now you are in group, you should definitely make top 8! (no pressure or anything lol)
On August 23 2012 05:10 monx wrote: I just hope WCS will get proper coverage and hype since the prize pool is hot (24k for 1st place)
Half the players will be out before the stream begins. The Blue stream will begin with Winners Round 4, and Premium 2 starts with Losers Round 3 (losers get eliminated in 13th-16th).
On August 23 2012 05:37 makizmaidrug wrote: So few Liquid players Where are HayprO, Ret, Zenio and TLO ?
better question, where the fuck is MLG to clarify all these questions we have, "here's our player list, now go fuck yourselves after spending your money on our tournament over and over and over".
On August 23 2012 05:45 ASasquatch wrote: Sorry for the people who don't know me/are disappointed I'm in the group stages I didn't expect it but I've been trying my best since finishing high school and moving to the compLexity house for the summer so I hope I can put forward a good result to prove I'm worth the spot. It's also incredibly likely I'll just go out quickly depending on who I play, but I'll try my best!
players dont make the choices, it would be stupid to blame you for mlg picking names out of a hat
On August 23 2012 05:45 ASasquatch wrote: Sorry for the people who don't know me/are disappointed I'm in the group stages I didn't expect it but I've been trying my best since finishing high school and moving to the compLexity house for the summer so I hope I can put forward a good result to prove I'm worth the spot. It's also incredibly likely I'll just go out quickly depending on who I play, but I'll try my best!
As others have said, the anger appears to be more at the organization than any particular players. Even so, I don't think anyone is uspet at your inclusion in Groups, as you went to Arena, took a game off of Alicia, and beat Sheth. Your placement at the Arena put you among the next-best qualified players to get into the Groups (regardless of whether or not EU and KR players could have attended the Championship), and nobody can take that away from you.
Good luck in groups! (It appears that your first match will be against Goody).
On August 23 2012 05:45 ASasquatch wrote: Sorry for the people who don't know me/are disappointed I'm in the group stages I didn't expect it but I've been trying my best since finishing high school and moving to the compLexity house for the summer so I hope I can put forward a good result to prove I'm worth the spot. It's also incredibly likely I'll just go out quickly depending on who I play, but I'll try my best!
Don't worry man. Although you're not very established, I've seen your name in couple places and in the Arena, and was one of the few foreigners I recognized. Good luck, here's me hoping that you'll be the next big name!
Just thought of something: given the Group format, the top 8 seeds (top 2 of each group) don't play any matches at all until ~2PM on Saturday. The Friday night Groups WR1 matches, monopolizing the Red Stream and featuring #3 vs. #6 and #4 vs #5 of each group (relative rankings), would have been all KeSPA vs. non-KeSPA (mostly KeSPA vs. GSL) showdowns.
how did they decide who plays in group play? Real curious how gix got in there.. the guy has the zvt meta-game of last year... to say hes decent would be a gross overstatement.
On August 23 2012 06:38 VPCursed wrote: how did they decide who plays in group play?
Take the order of seeds in the Group and label them 1-6. From there, the Group is a standard 8-player Double Elimination tournament*, with #4 vs. #5, #3 vs. #6, etc. The "#7" and "#8" seeds in each group will be coming in from the Open Winners Bracket (#7's will be the four highest surviving OWB players).
*-extended series rule still applies for rematches in Group Play
I will prioritize GW2 over this None of my favorite players present: Sase, Naniwa, ForGG. Also no kespa players. It feel like it's basically Goody+Thor+mid tier GSL+US.
Top 5 will probably be Taeja, Hero, Stephano, Violet and Losira. Not much of a competition for them besides maybe some koreans.
On August 23 2012 04:23 goswser wrote: Remember that once you add in the players from the open bracket these groups will look a lot more intimidating also.
Liquid team kill in the first group stage, no big surprise. Thats not the savior that a good chunk of tl would by a ticket soley to kick in the nuts is it? Other wise looks good.
On August 23 2012 07:13 mrRoflpwn wrote: Wait how did these guys get seeds into groups? I thought it is normally 4 people seeded into each group and 2 from the open bracket into each group.
The group format has changed. There are now eight players per Group. It was to be four from Arena, two KeSPA and two Open Bracket winners, but the KeSPA guys couldn't make it, so they're being replaced by the players with the best Summer Season results (after the top Arena finishers).
On August 23 2012 07:22 Jaaaaasper wrote: Liquid team kill in the first group stage, no big surprise. Thats not the savior that a good chunk of tl would by a ticket soley to kick in the nuts is it? Other wise looks good.
They're not playing each other right away. They'll be on opposite ends of the Group A bracket, and will not play any matches until Saturday afternoon.
On August 23 2012 07:22 Jaaaaasper wrote: Liquid team kill in the first group stage, no big surprise. Thats not the savior that a good chunk of tl would by a ticket soley to kick in the nuts is it? Other wise looks good.
On August 23 2012 04:45 Darpa wrote: Goody sasquatch and caliber all made the groups??? did they win a tournament or something?
Goody qualified for arena and earned his place in the groups at the arena I don't see what's wrong with goody being there.
Sasquatch also qualified for summer arena, so I assume thats likewise how the other North American players made it into groups.
The last players got in because not enough Arena participants were available, and the next ranking criterion is Invite Qualifier finish (which would go to NA before the other regions, because NA's 7th-9th place finishers didn't make it to the Arena, while the "first losers" from the EU and KR Invite qualifiers finished 10th).
The groups are formed from players seeded from the Arena. The Arena's players were seeded by their placement in online qualifiers. That's why they're in the groups.
On August 23 2012 07:33 Larkin wrote: People don't pay attention, do they?
The groups are formed from players seeded from the Arena. The Arena's players were seeded by their placement in online qualifiers. That's why they're in the groups.
On another note, "HotForSundance" top 4.
People don't pay attention, do they?
the seeds are based on nothing, and then within the seeding system the groups are part randomized too.
On August 23 2012 07:33 Larkin wrote: People don't pay attention, do they?
The groups are formed from players seeded from the Arena. The Arena's players were seeded by their placement in online qualifiers. That's why they're in the groups.
On another note, "HotForSundance" top 4.
People don't pay attention, do they?
the seeds are based on nothing, and then within the seeding system the groups are part randomized too.
I wouldn't go that far, but I doubt that most viewers are aware of something like Sasquatch's win over Sheth in LR1 of the Arena, and fewer would have paid attention to the results of the open and inivite qualifiers that determined the seeding for the open bracket (and, as it turns out, three spots in Group Play).
Can't really blame people for that, as there was so much competitive SC2 going on (KeSPA transition, WCS, GSL S3 and GSTL S2 ending, etc.)
I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
A handful of kespa players are already borderline Code S/A level, not "gonna get stomped by NA ladder heroes", and even plenty of others are solid mid-range korean skill.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
So you think non Kespa pros are shitty too it seems. I mean if Kespa pros are beating normal Korean pros so those players like Puzzle, Leenock, and Gumiho must be absolutely terrible and will lose to NA ladder heroes.
the seeding is confusing, i guess its just based solely off arena? but then where did a lot of these unknowns come from. surely could have seeded some better foreign players then this. feel like its going to be a lot of steamrolls during group play, hopefully some better foreigners make it out of open bracket.
On August 23 2012 08:19 KingwAyz wrote: How do the Open Bracket seedings work? MKP at 45?!
1) Arena result (nobody in the Open Bracket has this) 2) Invite Qualifer result 3) Open Qualifier result 4) MLG Rank
Since MKP did not participate in any Summer Season events (had a direct seed to the Arena, but played in the WCS KR preliminaries instead), he's ranked below everyone who attempted the Open Qualifiers in the Summer Season.
Oh man, really hope Leenock owns up the open bracket!
I don't have a strong attachment to anyone in the group stages though. Sort of agree with people noting that this is a weaker lineup than usual. But because of that we might have a closer championship on our hands. Assuming the Taeja bulldozer can be stopped. Wouldn't mind seeing a good showing from Losira, First, Hero, Oz and Ganzi though. Also hoping some of the americans do well though I can't really bet on any of them. Best of luck still!
Pretty meh pools. MKP will just be knocked out by some random foreign zerg, and the only storyline here is how far Stephano will go or whether Taeja will win. No Nestea/Mvp/MMa/DRG/Naniwa etc is Not really sure why they hyped up the mystery invites though...
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Might want to take a look at some of the Wcs Korea results to realise that some kespa players are pretty up there. Or even better, check out the vods, they are free to watch 1 week after the match has been played. But more importantly, kespa players will bring in a LOT of viewers, hence why mlg was so quick to strike up a deal with kespa.
However you are right about people wanting to see foreigner vs Korean, I definitely fall into this category. Funnily enough I always used to barrack for the foreigner, however nowadays I smile every time a Korean destroys a foreigner, especially the ones with too many fan Boys hyping that player up more than they deserve.
On August 23 2012 08:26 ProxyKnoxy wrote: Pretty meh pools. MKP will just be knocked out by some random foreign zerg, and the only storyline here is how far Stephano will go or whether Taeja will win. No Nestea/Mvp/MMa/DRG/Naniwa etc is Not really sure why they hyped up the mystery invites though...
It would have been (mostly) KeSPA vs. GOM again, but in a "premier tournament" and not a qualifier for a qualifier.
Replace the last two rows of players with KeSPA players. Friday night's Red Stream would have been nothing but those guys playing matches against players from rows 3 and 4.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
A handful of kespa players are already borderline Code S/A level, not "gonna get stomped by NA ladder heroes", and even plenty of others are solid mid-range korean skill.
Yes but there are probably 100 non kespa players, that fit in that description. I dont get why these guys get such a special treatment. Its a new game they should have to prove themselves in qualifiers etc just like any other.
Group A - TL team kill again. ridiculous Group B - Sheth said he's most confident at ZvP...too bad he's going up against Korean Ts Group C - If Stephano does bad, everyone will blame EG curse. If he does good, it's expected Group D - ez pz
So I assume the open bracket winners get seeded 25-32 into the "groups" (funny looking groups...). That means the top seeds probably have to play the likes of MKP or Leenock in the winners bracket 1st round rather than the much lower skilled "invited" players. I bet they are thrilled :p
Looking at the #Seeds and how the groups are formed, I am completely clueless as to how these groups were sorted.. Is it random?
I get it as far as 1-2-3-4 each get different groups.
Then #1 seeded group gets 8th, 2# gets 7th, #3 gets 5th and #4 gets 6th
But then #1 gets 11th and #4 gets 12th.. Im by no means any good at math, but everything after 8th seed seems quite arbitrary to me... can anyone explain this to me?
On August 23 2012 09:03 ninjamyst wrote: Group A - TL team kill again. ridiculous Group B - Sheth said he's most confident at ZvP...too bad he's going up against Korean Ts Group C - If Stephano does bad, everyone will blame EG curse. If he does good, it's expected Group D - ez pz
If they go 1-2 in the Group, they will be in separate halves of the Championship and can meet in the Finals (though of course, the road will be harder for the one who doesn't win the group).
My biggest concern for them (and the rest of the top 8 seeds) is that they have no tournament games until 2PM on Saturday (though I guess that might be good for giving players maximum time to adjust to the time zone).
On August 23 2012 09:12 ELA wrote: Looking at the #Seeds and how the groups are formed, I am completely clueless as to how these groups were sorted.. Is it random?
I get it as far as 1-2-3-4 each get different groups.
Then #1 seeded group gets 8th, 2# gets 7th, #3 gets 5th and #4 gets 6th
But then #1 gets 11th and #4 gets 12th.. Im by no means any good at math, but everything after 8th seed seems quite arbitrary to me... can anyone explain this to me?
1-2-3-4 to A-B-C-D obviously 5-6 random to C-D 7-8 random to A-B 9-12 random to A-B-C-D 13-16 random to A-B-C-D 17-20 random to A-B-C-D 21-24 random to A-B-C-D
On August 23 2012 09:03 ninjamyst wrote: Group A - TL team kill again. ridiculous Group B - Sheth said he's most confident at ZvP...too bad he's going up against Korean Ts Group C - If Stephano does bad, everyone will blame EG curse. If he does good, it's expected Group D - ez pz
what about first-losira in group D?b or oz-rain in C? etc
On August 23 2012 09:12 ELA wrote: Looking at the #Seeds and how the groups are formed, I am completely clueless as to how these groups were sorted.. Is it random?
I get it as far as 1-2-3-4 each get different groups.
Then #1 seeded group gets 8th, 2# gets 7th, #3 gets 5th and #4 gets 6th
But then #1 gets 11th and #4 gets 12th.. Im by no means any good at math, but everything after 8th seed seems quite arbitrary to me... can anyone explain this to me?
1-2-3-4 to A-B-C-D obviously 5-6 random to C-D 7-8 random to A-B 9-12 random to A-B-C-D 13-16 random to A-B-C-D 17-20 random to A-B-C-D 21-24 random to A-B-C-D
On August 23 2012 09:38 NrGmonk wrote: Is icecream GoSuicecream?
liquipedia says so
This would be my top 20 from the open bracked: I have to say this is looking pretty stacked. HuK TheStC IdrA MarineKing Killer ThorZaIN Crank SeleCT JYP DeMusliM Heart Leenock Beastyqt SLush TT1 asd Hawk HwangSin suppy ViBE
Sadly only 8 of them will make it out into the groups. The groups could look a lot more scary. =(
This comes up every single MLG. For some reason the MLG system is so archaic that the name you first signed up with for your first MLG is stuck in stone and can never be changed.
This comes up every single MLG. For some reason the MLG system is so archaic that the name you first signed up with for your first MLG is stuck in stone and can never be changed.
its more that you have a user name for the MLG site which isnt tied to your game name, you sign up with a username on the site and they just print off the list and paste it to their announcement page. many players either didnt expect their usernames to be used publicly, or have changed teams. and mlg cant be bothered to have a decent site that keeps track of in game names (which is a service which makes sense since its all tied to the idea of their game battles platform for playing any game you own competitively).
but we all know mlgs site sucks but they cant be bothered to change it
darn, wanted to see some kespa pro's get their asses handed to them, but never mind, still time for that! Seriously though looks good looking forward to watching.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
No they are not! Winning one BO3 means nothing you should know that. How many times have unknown foreigners beat Korean code S players? Are they also better then them now?. Goody better then Nestea and MMA now?. Seriously some of you BW fans need to come down to earth and get a grip on reality.
On August 23 2012 09:38 NrGmonk wrote: Is icecream GoSuicecream?
liquipedia says so
This would be my top 20 from the open bracked: I have to say this is looking pretty stacked. HuK TheStC IdrA MarineKing Killer ThorZaIN Crank SeleCT JYP DeMusliM Heart Leenock Beastyqt SLush TT1 asd Hawk HwangSin suppy ViBE
Sadly only 8 of them will make it out into the groups. The groups could look a lot more scary. =(
unless they all end up in the same bracket... This is who i see making into group play.
Huk has been struggling... barely top 10 in the Canada WCS. Idra could make it with a good draw. Heart/MKP/JYP/Leenock are code S next season again so they should of been seeded any ways. ASD/theSTC are close to code S as well.
There's gonna be upsets, but I'm crossing my fingers MKP makes it through. SC2 rating for the weekend depends on MKP making it through.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
No they are not! Winning one BO3 means nothing you should know that. How many times have unknown foreigners beat Korean code S players? Are they also better then them now?. Goody better then Nestea and MMA now?. Seriously some of you BW fans need to come down to earth and get a grip on reality.
You also need to kind of get a grip. I've never played bw so not much of a fan but to seriously think its random flukes for BW players to take several games off code S players in WCG is stretching it. How many NA players take games off not even Code S but rather just koreans?
For every set an American wins, Koreans win another 100. So calling it flukes is too far. Also fyi, if you're not familiar with goody or the EU scene, he was one of the best TvT's (top 3) in Europe despite the stupid "low apm" comments. Not saying he's better than MMA but he was decent enough to take series off him.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
No they are not! Winning one BO3 means nothing you should know that. How many times have unknown foreigners beat Korean code S players? Are they also better then them now?. Goody better then Nestea and MMA now?. Seriously some of you BW fans need to come down to earth and get a grip on reality.
You also need to kind of get a grip. I've never played bw so not much of a fan but to seriously think its random flukes for BW players to take several games off code S players in WCG is stretching it. How many NA players take games off not even Code S but rather just koreans?
For every set an American wins, Koreans win another 100. So calling it flukes is too far. Also fyi, if you're not familiar with goody or the EU scene, he was one of the best TvT's (top 3) in Europe despite the stupid "low apm" comments. Not saying he's better than MMA but he was decent enough to take series off him.
Its just a fluke atm until we get a larger data set. Any GM or high master player can take a game or 2 of a code S player. It all comes down to luck/maps and there current form(good or bad days). Calling the Kespa players better or equal to there GSL counterparts is hilarious because we got an even larger data set with some unknown foreigner players who got 2-3 wins vs GSL code S players and I for once wouldn't call them better or equal to the GSL code s players. Time will tell we need a much larger set of data before you can start saying stuff like that.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
No they are not! Winning one BO3 means nothing you should know that. How many times have unknown foreigners beat Korean code S players? Are they also better then them now?. Goody better then Nestea and MMA now?. Seriously some of you BW fans need to come down to earth and get a grip on reality.
You also need to kind of get a grip. I've never played bw so not much of a fan but to seriously think its random flukes for BW players to take several games off code S players in WCG is stretching it. How many NA players take games off not even Code S but rather just koreans?
For every set an American wins, Koreans win another 100. So calling it flukes is too far. Also fyi, if you're not familiar with goody or the EU scene, he was one of the best TvT's (top 3) in Europe despite the stupid "low apm" comments. Not saying he's better than MMA but he was decent enough to take series off him.
Its just a fluke atm until we get a larger data set. Any GM or high master player can take a game or 2 of a code S player. It all comes down to luck/maps and there current form(good or bad days). Calling the Kespa players better or equal to there GSL counterparts is hilarious because we got an even larger data set with some unknown foreigner players who got 2-3 wins vs GSL code S players and I for once wouldn't call them better or equal to the GSL code s players. Time will tell we need a much larger set of data before you can start saying stuff like that.
So beating Gumiho, Miya, Leenock, Sc, Happy, Puzzle, Genius, etc in a Bo3 in the same tournament is just a fluke huh.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
No they are not! Winning one BO3 means nothing you should know that. How many times have unknown foreigners beat Korean code S players? Are they also better then them now?. Goody better then Nestea and MMA now?. Seriously some of you BW fans need to come down to earth and get a grip on reality.
You also need to kind of get a grip. I've never played bw so not much of a fan but to seriously think its random flukes for BW players to take several games off code S players in WCG is stretching it. How many NA players take games off not even Code S but rather just koreans?
For every set an American wins, Koreans win another 100. So calling it flukes is too far. Also fyi, if you're not familiar with goody or the EU scene, he was one of the best TvT's (top 3) in Europe despite the stupid "low apm" comments. Not saying he's better than MMA but he was decent enough to take series off him.
Its just a fluke atm until we get a larger data set. Any GM or high master player can take a game or 2 of a code S player. It all comes down to luck/maps and there current form(good or bad days). Calling the Kespa players better or equal to there GSL counterparts is hilarious because we got an even larger data set with some unknown foreigner players who got 2-3 wins vs GSL code S players and I for once wouldn't call them better or equal to the GSL code s players. Time will tell we need a much larger set of data before you can start saying stuff like that.
So beating Gumiho, Miya, Leenock, Sc, Happy, Puzzle, Genius, etc in a Bo3 in the same tournament is just a fluke huh.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
No they are not! Winning one BO3 means nothing you should know that. How many times have unknown foreigners beat Korean code S players? Are they also better then them now?. Goody better then Nestea and MMA now?. Seriously some of you BW fans need to come down to earth and get a grip on reality.
3 of the representatives of Korea for WCS Asia are Kespa players, that's out of 7 of them who were in the tournament...I wouldn't call it a fluke at all.
I have a good grip on reality, all you have to do is look at the liquipedia brackets and see how well they did. It's a lot better than winning one bo3.
On August 23 2012 12:27 RedFive wrote: Aww =( violet was going to be here =( Rest in peace Violet
AZUBU.viOLet (Kim Dong Hwan (김동환)) is alive and well. It's KT.Violet (Woo Jung Ho (우정호)) who passed away.
I know it's not their fault, but I just get so enraged seeing this shit. How can you not tell the difference?? >.< especially at a sensitive time like this
I am assuming that MLG will stick to the format presented here, though with the planned Friday night KeSPA extravaganza gone, who knows what will happen...
Edit: Also note that the exact insertion procedure for the eight OWB players has not been published (the 1-8 labeling has nothing to do with seeding). All that has been posted is that they will be re-seeded 25-32 in the order of their respective Open Bracket seeds.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
No they are not! Winning one BO3 means nothing you should know that. How many times have unknown foreigners beat Korean code S players? Are they also better then them now?. Goody better then Nestea and MMA now?. Seriously some of you BW fans need to come down to earth and get a grip on reality.
3 of the representatives of Korea for WCS Asia are Kespa players, that's out of 7 of them who were in the tournament...I wouldn't call it a fluke at all.
I have a good grip on reality, all you have to do is look at the liquipedia brackets and see how well they did. It's a lot better than winning one bo3.
I tallied the results thus far in Korea WCS and the overall record is 16-9 !! (36-28 in games) in favor of KESPA vs GSL. That's pretty staggering for BO3s. Even excluding the pitiful play of Yugioh, victims include DRG, Leenock, and Gumiho. I personally think the elephant thing with 300 BW players dominating is a load of crap, but GSL code S could certainly have at least half kespa in short order based on current progress. Kespa zergs look extremely strong except versus protoss, and By.Sun looks awesome as well.
I am assuming that MLG will stick to the format presented here, though with the planned Friday night KeSPA extravaganza gone, who knows what will happen...
Edit: Also note that the exact insertion procedure for the eight OWB players has not been published (the 1-8 labeling has nothing to do with seeding). All that has been posted is that they will be re-seeded 25-32 in the order of their respective Open Bracket seeds.
WOW if those brackets are accurate, there should be a shitstorm because the top seeds get screwed by playing the super strong open bracket winners rather than the super weak non-Kespa last second seeds.
When you have more interest in the open bracket than the groups it's a good sign that the seeding has failed. Someone should have looked at MKP in the open, realised how ridiculous it was for him not to be seeded and made an exception.
On August 23 2012 10:48 Thobrik wrote: Where the hell are my swedes?!? Shape up ffs, and we dare to call ourselves little Korea!
im sorry but im afraid almost every progamer in sweden is without a team at this moment ^^;
on a sidenote how were the bottom 4 seeds chosen?
qxc is one of the two Championship entrants who was eliminated in Losers Round 1 of the Summer Arena (Sheth is the other one). The last three players had the best finish in the Invite-Only Online Qualifiers among those who did not play in the Arena. MLG had to reach down that far because 11 of the bottom 16 Arena players could not make it to Raleigh -- including (from round 2) SaSe, SorOf, Cytoplasm, Welmu, and TOP, as well as (from round 1) roof, Tefel, Golden, ReaL, Dream, and Snute.
On August 23 2012 14:43 Sub40APM wrote: MarineKing? Am I missreading the group stages or is he not coming?
Open bracket yo, his seeding got lost cuz he didn't play in qualifiers or summer arena.
Ah. Thanks. Cool, I hope he can tough through so many games. Still kind of strange to see some of the seeded players while poor old MKP has to grind it out.
It's not just koreans missing I feel like it is used to be more filled with europeans. I think that if they want more europeans and more koreans they have to make it more forgiving not to miss a summer arena or whatever. I just feel like the gap between EU and NA has gotten even bigger with names like Idra and HuK not getting the results lately, besides them there isn't much talent to hype I feel. Ofc there is Suppy and maybe Scarlett but if you look at the EU scene I feel they have like dozens of similar up and coming players which in my opinion are much better. I'm disappointed at the lack of players from outside NA, just look at TSL4 for an example wasn't it just Major who qualified from NA into the last 32 players ( I think it was something like 15 koreans, 16 europeans and then Major?). I think the current lineup of players will give MLG less good games, but I hope I am proven wrong.
On August 23 2012 20:31 Petrone wrote: It's not just koreans missing I feel like it is used to be more filled with europeans. I think that if they want more europeans and more koreans they have to make it more forgiving not to miss a summer arena or whatever. I just feel like the gap between EU and NA has gotten even bigger with names like Idra and HuK not getting the results lately, besides them there isn't much talent to hype I feel. Ofc there is Suppy and maybe Scarlett but if you look at the EU scene I feel they have like dozens of similar up and coming players which in my opinion are much better. I'm disappointed at the lack of players from outside NA, just look at TSL4 for an example wasn't it just Major who qualified from NA into the last 32 players ( I think it was something like 15 koreans, 16 europeans and then Major?). I think the current lineup of players will give MLG less good games, but I hope I am proven wrong.
If you look at it from a worldwide persepective, there's WCS (Korea), OSL, Proleague, and Campus Party all drawing attention and talent away from this weekend's MLG (and WCS KR prelims were in direct conflict with Summer Arena), so of course there's going to be a weaker international lineup.
On August 23 2012 19:07 sAsImre wrote: A rather weak line up... not a lot of Code S only two superstars, an awful openbracket, some ppl who'll go 0-5 in groups...
Groups don't work that way anymore. Instead of six-player round-robin Pools, they are eight-player double-elimination mini-tournaments (for lack of a better term). The worst a Group player can do is 0-4.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
No they are not! Winning one BO3 means nothing you should know that. How many times have unknown foreigners beat Korean code S players? Are they also better then them now?. Goody better then Nestea and MMA now?. Seriously some of you BW fans need to come down to earth and get a grip on reality.
3 of the representatives of Korea for WCS Asia are Kespa players, that's out of 7 of them who were in the tournament...I wouldn't call it a fluke at all.
I have a good grip on reality, all you have to do is look at the liquipedia brackets and see how well they did. It's a lot better than winning one bo3.
I mean to be fair people say "kespa talent" but kespa picked the best 6 they have. It all goes downhill from there. If anyone watched the Hero/Roro game today they would realize Kespa still has a little ways to go. I feel like a lot of the problem was massive pressure on the GSL players to win. Only 1 kespa player was able to qualify from the open bracket. Edit: Just glancing through day 1 of the open bracket, looking at some famous kespa player results: Wooki 0-2 고재흠 Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet
Only 1 kespa player, Flash, was able to beat a top Code B/Code A player. It's not as though Kespa players winning against GSL players is a common thing
On August 23 2012 00:21 CoFran wrote: GW2 or this hmmmmmm
I will personally be doing both. Have multiple displays + huge tv :D
I'm so jealous it's not even funny anymore
(And I have an report due for Aug. 27th... Oh god oh god oh god whyyyy T_T )
U can just buy a medium-cost monitor and use it as a secondary. U just need to watch streams/read web and such and play on the main one. Costs are not that high to be honest.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
No they are not! Winning one BO3 means nothing you should know that. How many times have unknown foreigners beat Korean code S players? Are they also better then them now?. Goody better then Nestea and MMA now?. Seriously some of you BW fans need to come down to earth and get a grip on reality.
3 of the representatives of Korea for WCS Asia are Kespa players, that's out of 7 of them who were in the tournament...I wouldn't call it a fluke at all.
I have a good grip on reality, all you have to do is look at the liquipedia brackets and see how well they did. It's a lot better than winning one bo3.
I mean to be fair people say "kespa talent" but kespa picked the best 6 they have. It all goes downhill from there. If anyone watched the Hero/Roro game today they would realize Kespa still has a little ways to go. I feel like a lot of the problem was massive pressure on the GSL players to win. Only 1 kespa player was able to qualify from the open bracket. Edit: Just glancing through day 1 of the open bracket, looking at some famous kespa player results: Wooki 0-2 고재흠 Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet
Only 1 kespa player, Flash, was able to beat a top Code B/Code A player. It's not as though Kespa players winning against GSL players is a common thing
Those results aren't recent at all. If the qualifiers were done today then KeSPA players would have a much higher chance of making it through and this shows by how well they have done in the actual tournament.
On August 23 2012 20:31 Petrone wrote: It's not just koreans missing I feel like it is used to be more filled with europeans. I think that if they want more europeans and more koreans they have to make it more forgiving not to miss a summer arena or whatever. I just feel like the gap between EU and NA has gotten even bigger with names like Idra and HuK not getting the results lately, besides them there isn't much talent to hype I feel. Ofc there is Suppy and maybe Scarlett but if you look at the EU scene I feel they have like dozens of similar up and coming players which in my opinion are much better. I'm disappointed at the lack of players from outside NA, just look at TSL4 for an example wasn't it just Major who qualified from NA into the last 32 players ( I think it was something like 15 koreans, 16 europeans and then Major?). I think the current lineup of players will give MLG less good games, but I hope I am proven wrong.
If you look at it from a worldwide persepective, there's WCS (Korea), OSL, Proleague, and Campus Party all drawing attention and talent away from this weekend's MLG (and WCS KR prelims were in direct conflict with Summer Arena), so of course there's going to be a weaker international lineup.
Hopefully, Dallas will be better in that regard.
I'm not sure, MLG Dallas will take place at the same dates than ESWC in Paris. Otherwise, if the brackets on Liquipedia are correct, the top seeds are totally disadvantaged as I was expecting it yesterday. I hope it will be changed, we can't have Sasquatch-GoOdy in the first round as well as TaeJa-MarineKing or Stephano-Leenock.
On August 23 2012 08:12 Kenpark wrote: I dont get why there should be 8 Kespa players seeded in the first place. I mean it would be fun to see them lose vs some NA ladder heroes, but 8 fucking seeds, paid flight etc. For what ? They arent even top tier. Foreigener vs Korean is what most people wanna see, so imo they should try to bring some more foreign talent.
Someone hasn't been watching WCS Korea, some of the Kespa guys are already better than a lot of GOM players.
No they are not! Winning one BO3 means nothing you should know that. How many times have unknown foreigners beat Korean code S players? Are they also better then them now?. Goody better then Nestea and MMA now?. Seriously some of you BW fans need to come down to earth and get a grip on reality.
3 of the representatives of Korea for WCS Asia are Kespa players, that's out of 7 of them who were in the tournament...I wouldn't call it a fluke at all.
I have a good grip on reality, all you have to do is look at the liquipedia brackets and see how well they did. It's a lot better than winning one bo3.
I mean to be fair people say "kespa talent" but kespa picked the best 6 they have. It all goes downhill from there. If anyone watched the Hero/Roro game today they would realize Kespa still has a little ways to go. I feel like a lot of the problem was massive pressure on the GSL players to win. Only 1 kespa player was able to qualify from the open bracket. Edit: Just glancing through day 1 of the open bracket, looking at some famous kespa player results: Wooki 0-2 고재흠 Hoejja 1-2 Harrier Flying 0-2 Brown Flash 2-0 Brown, Flash 1-2 Sniper Crazy-hydra 1-2 inori Bisu 0-2 Moon Fantasy 0-2 Pet
Only 1 kespa player, Flash, was able to beat a top Code B/Code A player. It's not as though Kespa players winning against GSL players is a common thing
That was so long ago.. their results are much different now. The top Kespa players, like Effort and RoRo, Jaedong and Flash are in the lower levels of Code-S, at the least, at this point. Most of the other Kespa players are also at least somewhere in Code-A, even.
OP, why images? With text I can search for name of players that is interesting to me. With images - I must eye-scan every pixel. Lists done with images it is terrible choice. What do you afraid of, that some will copy text or something?
On August 23 2012 23:44 elagrion wrote: OP, why images? With text I can search for name of players that is interesting to me. With images - I must eye-scan every pixel. Lists done with images it is terrible choice. What do you afraid of, that some will copy text or something?
I dont know if I get the brackets right, but Steph, First, Oz, Taeja etc have to play some open bracket winner (MKP, JYP, TheStc, Heart etc) while Goody plays Sasquatch and Daisy plays Caliber in the first round ??? I know it is double elim, but this is just wrong imo.
I dont know what can be done at this point, but imagine Steph (or any other high caliber high seed) has to play MKP in the 1st round gets send to loser bracket, where he faces Oz or Violet or another Korean from the open bracket.
This cant be right and cant be in the interest of MLG. Higher seeds should obv be an advantage.
In my opinion give Taeja, Hero, Steph, Losira etc a BYE in the 1st round, like IEM did with their group winners. They already proved themselves in the Arena.
And yes I´m a foreigner fanboy and afraid Steph gets an early exit but the point is still valid.
On August 24 2012 00:20 Kenpark wrote: I dont know if I get the brackets right, but Steph, First, Oz, Taeja etc have to play some open bracket winner (MKP, JYP, TheStc, Heart etc) while Goody plays Sasquatch and Daisy plays Caliber in the first round ??? I know it is double elim, but this is just wrong imo.
I dont know what can be done at this point, but imagine Steph (or any other high caliber high seed) has to play MKP in the 1st round gets send to loser bracket, where he faces Oz or Violet or another Korean from the open bracket.
This cant be right and cant be in the interest of MLG. Higher seeds should obv be an advantage.
In my opinion give Taeja, Hero, Steph, Losira etc a BYE in the 1st round, like IEM did with their group winners. They already proved themselves in the Arena.
And yes I´m a foreigner fanboy and afraid Steph gets an early exit but the point is still valid.
Pls tell me I just read the brackets wrong.
Yeah I hope they're not official because yeah, it's badly made.
The first two seeds in a group will play the open bracket winners (likely to be strong koreans). Seed 3/4 in a group get the "easy" NA players (+Grubby).
On August 24 2012 04:55 00Visor wrote: The seeding in the groups is kinda stupid.
The first two seeds in a group will play the open bracket winners (likely to be strong koreans). Seed 3/4 in a group get the "easy" NA players (+Grubby).
While it might not be as an amazing of a lineup as other MLG events and perhaps some strange seeds? Overall Im quite happy with the Lineup and look forward to a weekend full of some nice SC2 action Its not like there are no star players in the pools and the open bracket has some big names in there :D
There are americans in the group stage brackets (qxc and illusion are semi korean bonjwas )
Why are there are americans....
Americans are terrible at the game, save a few.
There were 12 European and Korean players from the bottom half of Arena finishers who were eligible for Group Play (filling the eight spots vacated from the failed KeSPA invites), but 11 of them either could not or did not want to go to Raleigh on short notice at their own expense. The four USA players in the same situation were likely all going to Raleigh anyway, along with the three players who were promoted to Groups from the Invite-Only Online Qualifier results.
On August 24 2012 04:55 00Visor wrote: The seeding in the groups is kinda stupid.
The first two seeds in a group will play the open bracket winners (likely to be strong koreans). Seed 3/4 in a group get the "easy" NA players (+Grubby).
Holy shit, I just realized that. That is shocking, genuinely shocking. I mean, I love Goody, but in Group D you now have Goody vs Sasquatch as one match, while another could very well turn out to be Losira vs MarineKing, or First vs Leenock, etc.
It's genuinely mental. I think Kespa really fucked MLG over here. They should not just stand there and take it, that would be a huge mistake.
On August 24 2012 08:08 Zetter wrote: Perhaps this time Goody will tear up MLG. At least he should be able to defeat Sasquatch. But most likely Daisy will again be his demise.
Well last MLG (Arena), Goody didnt exactly tear up, but it was enough to be second best foreigner. Also, if he beats Sasquatch, he will play First or an open bracket player. (maybe Daisy in losers)
On August 24 2012 04:55 00Visor wrote: The seeding in the groups is kinda stupid.
The first two seeds in a group will play the open bracket winners (likely to be strong koreans). Seed 3/4 in a group get the "easy" NA players (+Grubby).
Holy shit, I just realized that. That is shocking, genuinely shocking. I mean, I love Goody, but in Group D you now have Goody vs Sasquatch as one match, while another could very well turn out to be Losira vs MarineKing, or First vs Leenock, etc.
It's genuinely mental. I think Kespa really fucked MLG over here. They should not just stand there and take it, that would be a huge mistake.
Kepsa may have fudged here, but MLG has fudged as well.
They could have easily invited a different set of 8 people. Instead of inviting seeds from their qualifers
I feel like at this point some Kespa players could make it into the championship bracket from the open bracket. Roro / Sun / JD (hopefully) / Effort / Babbbbby <3. Dunno if they could get far in the championship bracket but if they play consistently and get a little lucky they should be able to make it all the way through opens.
On August 23 2012 00:32 Kiyo. wrote: Whelp, now we know why it hasn't been hyped.
The brackets are moderately interesting though! Anyone can hype anything. xP
It's hard to replace the draw of what would have been the first KeSPA vs. non-KeSPA matches in a serious top-level tournament (as in not qualifiers -- as epic as WCS KR has been, it's a qualifier), just before the OSL's Ro16. From the broadcast schedule, it's clear that they would have filled up the Red Stream with the KeSPA players' Group Play matches on Friday night.
I understand why everyone is whining about the lineup, but i do not think it's MLGs fault. I think the qualified players from Summer Arena all are pretty good, and the reason for the 8 invites is because the KESPA players are hopeless at schedueling. They declined their invites so late that it was too late too invite the rest of the summer arena playres like sortof, Snute cytoplasm and so on, so they had to invite people that were attending anywayt/ living in the US. don't blame MLG, blame KESPA
Games will be cast by Day[9], Apollo, djWheat, TotalBiscuit, Mr Bitter, Rotterdam, Rob Simpson, Tim Frazier (Robin), Axeltoss, Kibbelz, and Adebisi (observer).
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
MLG Arena players 17-32 are not given free trips to MLG -- so very few/none of them accepted their invites. Then MLG goes down the list of the next highest people (I.e. binski / caliber who were both 1 round away from Arena) and they got invited. Since they were going to be at MLG anyway, they got the seeds.
This is a explanation that makes sense to some extent but you don't link a source either. Is this your assumption or did you hear that from MLG? In the sources i trust they still state that there are 8 invited players. They are also a lot of other scenarios that seem possible to me. I guess the Kespa players would not have payed for their flight tickets on their own. As a result you can also argue that MLG could have flown in some good foreigners. But this is not the point i was making. I am just saying that this seems to be the worst sulotion and i listed some ideas in further posts that are better imho.
I don't get what's so hard to understand, there's no reason for you to be a massive dick.
Like i posted before its nothing personal against players from LighT. Did I get personal or insult you? Or is it normal for you to call random ppl out to be a massive dick?
MLG pays for the flights for the top 16 of Arena. 17-32 earn high seeds in open bracket but don't have their flights paid for - this is common knowledge. There were to be 8 invited players (people assume they were to be KeSPA pros), it doesn't really matter who they were, but for whatever reason the players they wanted to invite didn't come.
So the next step is to invite people from qualifiers, using an objective method. Look at Liquipedia to see the rankings from the Arena qualifiers, then say it doesn't make sense.
Think about it logically... they need to fill the groups, they have to use some kind of objective method to do it. What are the chances a European will fly to MLG on <1 week notice? Probably 0. What are the chances that an NA player will come to MLG, probably 100% since they're coming anyway. You're not even thinking about this - and insulting the people that are in pool play just because you don't know them and it seems "random" to you even though it's not random at all.
That's why I call you a dick.
Then by that reasoning... shouldn't MKP be seeded?
He actually qualified for the Arena (unlike some of the seeded players) but was unable to participate due to scheduling and is still participating in the main event according to the OP. Wouldn't it make sense to seed him?
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
MLG Arena players 17-32 are not given free trips to MLG -- so very few/none of them accepted their invites. Then MLG goes down the list of the next highest people (I.e. binski / caliber who were both 1 round away from Arena) and they got invited. Since they were going to be at MLG anyway, they got the seeds.
This is a explanation that makes sense to some extent but you don't link a source either. Is this your assumption or did you hear that from MLG? In the sources i trust they still state that there are 8 invited players. They are also a lot of other scenarios that seem possible to me. I guess the Kespa players would not have payed for their flight tickets on their own. As a result you can also argue that MLG could have flown in some good foreigners. But this is not the point i was making. I am just saying that this seems to be the worst sulotion and i listed some ideas in further posts that are better imho.
I don't get what's so hard to understand, there's no reason for you to be a massive dick.
Like i posted before its nothing personal against players from LighT. Did I get personal or insult you? Or is it normal for you to call random ppl out to be a massive dick?
MLG pays for the flights for the top 16 of Arena. 17-32 earn high seeds in open bracket but don't have their flights paid for - this is common knowledge. There were to be 8 invited players (people assume they were to be KeSPA pros), it doesn't really matter who they were, but for whatever reason the players they wanted to invite didn't come.
So the next step is to invite people from qualifiers, using an objective method. Look at Liquipedia to see the rankings from the Arena qualifiers, then say it doesn't make sense.
Think about it logically... they need to fill the groups, they have to use some kind of objective method to do it. What are the chances a European will fly to MLG on <1 week notice? Probably 0. What are the chances that an NA player will come to MLG, probably 100% since they're coming anyway. You're not even thinking about this - and insulting the people that are in pool play just because you don't know them and it seems "random" to you even though it's not random at all.
That's why I call you a dick.
Then by that reasoning... shouldn't MKP be seeded?
He actually qualified for the Arena (unlike some of the seeded players) but was unable to participate due to scheduling and is still participating in the main event according to the OP. Wouldn't it make sense to seed him?
His qualification for Arena was based on Spring performance. Summer Championship seeds are based on Summer performance. If MLG's rules allowed for the previous season's top 8 to skip all qualification and take Rank 17 in the Championship Open Bracket (behind the bottom 16 from the Arena), then MKP would be in Groups now, but that's not how they're written.
On August 23 2012 00:49 a9arnn wrote: Edit: Cool Binski AND Caliber!!! LighT fighting!!!
sad days for MLG. Sad day for the community that so few ppl even notice that. Never thought that seeding would get out of control like that. I always was against seeding ppl who didn't qualifier for it and don't have any other proof to legitimate seeding them over other open bracket players. What's next? Do we have a raffle at next MLG to get some fans seeded in the groups?
To be clear: i don't have anything against those invited players like Binski and Caliber, and its definitely not their fault that they are invited! I also like that the local players gets supported but this is NOT the right way.
You need to calm down. Maybe do a little research before posting?
binski and Caliber were seeded as they are from their results in the Summer Arena American Invite-Only Qualifier. Caliber was a single game away from qualifying for Summer Arena (losing to Sheth 1-2 in the final round) and binski was 1 round away. giX was in the same position as Caliber.
And just FYI, they all made it farther than HuK.
Can you link me any source for your claims? I read the official announcements. I can't remember reading anything about that. I trust in liquipedia until you give me your sources: Seeds: Top 16 players of 2012 MLG Summer Arena are seeded into Group Play. A further 8 invited players are seeded into Group Play.
If it is true what you are saying it is even more confusing. Why would you seed players who actually not even qualified for the arena. This wouldn't even make sense or be fair in any way. You could take the top 24 players from the arena or smth like that.
MLG Arena players 17-32 are not given free trips to MLG -- so very few/none of them accepted their invites. Then MLG goes down the list of the next highest people (I.e. binski / caliber who were both 1 round away from Arena) and they got invited. Since they were going to be at MLG anyway, they got the seeds.
This is a explanation that makes sense to some extent but you don't link a source either. Is this your assumption or did you hear that from MLG? In the sources i trust they still state that there are 8 invited players. They are also a lot of other scenarios that seem possible to me. I guess the Kespa players would not have payed for their flight tickets on their own. As a result you can also argue that MLG could have flown in some good foreigners. But this is not the point i was making. I am just saying that this seems to be the worst sulotion and i listed some ideas in further posts that are better imho.
I don't get what's so hard to understand, there's no reason for you to be a massive dick.
Like i posted before its nothing personal against players from LighT. Did I get personal or insult you? Or is it normal for you to call random ppl out to be a massive dick?
MLG pays for the flights for the top 16 of Arena. 17-32 earn high seeds in open bracket but don't have their flights paid for - this is common knowledge. There were to be 8 invited players (people assume they were to be KeSPA pros), it doesn't really matter who they were, but for whatever reason the players they wanted to invite didn't come.
So the next step is to invite people from qualifiers, using an objective method. Look at Liquipedia to see the rankings from the Arena qualifiers, then say it doesn't make sense.
Think about it logically... they need to fill the groups, they have to use some kind of objective method to do it. What are the chances a European will fly to MLG on <1 week notice? Probably 0. What are the chances that an NA player will come to MLG, probably 100% since they're coming anyway. You're not even thinking about this - and insulting the people that are in pool play just because you don't know them and it seems "random" to you even though it's not random at all.
That's why I call you a dick.
Then by that reasoning... shouldn't MKP be seeded?
He actually qualified for the Arena (unlike some of the seeded players) but was unable to participate due to scheduling and is still participating in the main event according to the OP. Wouldn't it make sense to seed him?
His qualification for Arena was based on Spring performance. Summer Championship seeds are based on Summer performance. If MLG's rules allowed for the previous season's top 8 to skip all qualification and take Rank 17 in the Championship Open Bracket (behind the bottom 16 from the Arena), then MKP would be in Groups now, but that's not how they're written.
The guys seeded that didn't qualify played the same number of matches in the arena as MKP with the exception that MKP qualified automatically for the arena. If he didn't already have the seed into arena, odds are he would have participated in the qualifiers. So to exclude him because you automatically seeded him into the arena is rather silly.
On August 24 2012 11:20 ThaZenith wrote: Honestly didn't realize this was coming until earlier today. Dunno why, seems like there's no hype around this MLG.
Is anyone else having trouble with the stream? It plays for like 3-4 seconds then freezes.. so I have to refresh, and see commercials over again, just for 3 more seconds of stream
On August 25 2012 06:21 soulglider009 wrote: Is anyone else having trouble with the stream? It plays for like 3-4 seconds then freezes.. so I have to refresh, and see commercials over again, just for 3 more seconds of stream
I was getting the same issues using Chrome, so switched out to Firefox and have had no issues since.
On August 25 2012 05:08 Zandar wrote: We blame Kespa for not coming, but why are so many of the fun to watch Korean GSL zergs missing :/
Nestea, DongRaeGue, July, Symbol
They didn't make the Arena, and it's too expensive for them to come on their own (tt esports secured fund for MKP, so kudos for them). MLG could of invited them but it was not paid seed so not likely either way. And.... July >.<
On August 25 2012 06:21 soulglider009 wrote: Is anyone else having trouble with the stream? It plays for like 3-4 seconds then freezes.. so I have to refresh, and see commercials over again, just for 3 more seconds of stream
I was getting the same issues using Chrome, so switched out to Firefox and have had no issues since.
Same for me, in Chrome and Microsoft explorer it freezes, but in firefox it works fine
Trying to find any info anywhere on who's in and whos out, couldn't watch because America thinks its funny to put MLG on at a really fucking stupid time for European sc2 fans.
On August 25 2012 19:08 Duncaaaaaan wrote: Did Idra lose?
Trying to find any info anywhere on who's in and whos out, couldn't watch because America thinks its funny to put MLG on at a really fucking stupid time for European sc2 fans.
really??? isn't middle of the afternoon on a saturday..
Please don't take this as a complaint, I am wondering if there's been a lot of "next game coming up xy vs zb" over the weekend? I tuned in 4 times total and got the same message, didn't see a single game yet
Worst event so far. No replays, awful games being casted while much better matches are being played, problems with Chrome which they don't want to fix (instead they try to impose using of firefox), and worst quality even for a free stream.
On August 26 2012 18:00 Dimitrije S. wrote: Worst event so far. No replays, awful games being casted while much better matches are being played, problems with Chrome which they don't want to fix (instead they try to impose using of firefox), and worst quality even for a free stream.
On August 26 2012 18:00 Dimitrije S. wrote: Worst event so far. No replays, awful games being casted while much better matches are being played, problems with Chrome which they don't want to fix (instead they try to impose using of firefox), and worst quality even for a free stream.
Its bad, but not the worst event so far.
You are right, i haven't even watched all of them, and i was a little frustrated when i wrote that
On August 26 2012 18:00 Dimitrije S. wrote: Worst event so far. No replays, awful games being casted while much better matches are being played, problems with Chrome which they don't want to fix (instead they try to impose using of firefox), and worst quality even for a free stream.
Can someone give me the direct url for blue stream, i cant switch at the mlg site
it'll just goes grey indiffinately
EDIT: nevermind dual screen solved it, i most say im really disapointed in the system from mlg this time arround , havnt been able to enjoy much sofar this weekend.
I haven't bee watching, but finding out that a TvT final is possible (and I darned well hope Taeja beats First) is amusing given all the chatter about "Terran underpowered, QQ etc. Don't base it only on Taeja" and seeing the arguments both ways. I'm not saying these aren't exceptional terrans, just that it'll just be more amusing salt to the wounds of those terrans if their arguments continue to be foiled by terrans getting good results. XD They will be running out of legs to stand on, they'll have to start getting prosthetic additions.
On October 23 2012 10:04 IcookTacos wrote: I looked at MLG's website and couldn't find MKP's name anywhere on the list. Can anyone inform me about weather MKP is still competing in MLG or not?
On October 23 2012 10:04 IcookTacos wrote: I looked at MLG's website and couldn't find MKP's name anywhere on the list. Can anyone inform me about weather MKP is still competing in MLG or not?
Thanks in advance!
You necroed an old thread from last MLG. I have no idea if MKP is going since he didn't qualify for pool play and MLG doesn't release the list for open bracket players this far in advance to my knowledge.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BrvNM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cTJXf.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0Liq7.png)
But still i look forward to it 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I4KOz.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JpT2a.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/75044832.png/)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BQFd4.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j0W0C.jpg)
Xenocider
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PmvGT.png)
