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It looks like you could do the same trick when returning minerals to the CC as well, as the scv decelerates before dropping them off. Can somebody verify if it works both ways?
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On August 15 2012 07:12 TheWisp wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 07:06 thezanursic wrote:
REPOST: because I edited with further information assuming you 1 raxx expand I calculated that with minor error if you micro 6 workers you can put down an extra raxx at 3:35 when the CC is supposed to go down (If 5 workers are micro'd perfectly and 6 with minor error) 192M extra if 6 and 160M if 5 at 3:35 (no errors) 3:35 IS THE 1 RAXX CC TIMING!!!
TERRAN:
12 supply= 1:30 = 5 worker micro= 100
When the first supply depot is finished you usually have 80 minerals if you micro at least 4 workers you have 150 and you can put down your raxx 6-7 FUKING SECONDS SOONER!!!
Now further more a Terran usually scouts at 2:05 14 supply so nothing to do before that you have at least 2 minutes to only micro and build a supply/raxx that's 100 minerals for 5 SCVs and 120 for 6 (I'm assuming this is about how much could be managed) and your CC is down at 3:35 now let's assume that you scout your opponent on the last try (or you don't have to micro it much only patrol which doesn't occupy APM)
3:35 that is around the time CC should go down. Soo assuming that you don't micro each SCV will bring in 140 minerals by the time. If SCVs are micro'd they would bring in about 172 minerals. Soo let's assume that we can only gain 28 extra minerals for each SCV (errors) and we do that for 5 SCVs you receive a bonus of 140 if you do that for 6 you get an extra of 168 now.
168 minerals is an extra raxx you could theoretically pull of the same build order, but add another raxx a couple of seconds before expanding or right just so the first marine starts after the CC (If you did it with more or you wouldn't account my errors.
Soo if you were really good you could have put down a CC and a raxx both at 3:35 and still be even with the other guy doing the same build order (You could put it down earlier, but everything would need to be recalculated because of the mining time lost)
If I made a big a error please correct and comment.
PEOPLE THIS IS FUCKING HUGE DON'T MAKE IT OUT TO BE NOTHING. 2 RAXX CC (CC and raxx are simulatinous) IS NOW = NO MICRO 1 RAXX CC Someone mind making a test under slowest speed for minimum mistake?
No on minimum speed you could micro a lot more. We need someone on Fastest to try to maximize the amount of workers someone with high APM can micro. It would be useful if everybody goes and tries it and posts how many they can maintain in the first 3-4 mins. I would do it personally, but my computer with SC2 is in repairs and I personally am a pretty high APM player 250ish (Actual APM not reffering to Blizzard time)
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On August 15 2012 06:14 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:01 Mairou wrote:
People who think this feature is good because it can increase the possible skill gap between amateur and pro are wrong. This is not good way to add skill to the game.
First of all most people will never even know about this and Blizzard would never make this official game feature because its based on glitch. Secondly for spectators this would be like invisible war, because no one can actually see who is microing their workers better.
Microing your workers to close mineral patch is enough to do in early game. Later on you can deny enemy mining from close mineral patch with your scouting worker. It's much more efficient way to get ahead in economy, but even in code S most of the players don't do that yet. But that kind of feature is good way to add skill to the game and there should be more features like that. I can't remember any popular game which offered the ability to gain advantages with small glitches like that. Not a single one. (Q3, CS, SCBW just off the top of my head. In fact, sometimes glitches create way better mechanics than actual design because, well.. no one thought about it before.)
EDIT: I'm sorry 
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On August 15 2012 07:17 Arctura42 wrote:
Guys...what about mules?
Works with mules too ofc, everything works the same with actions set before it arrives, example: SCV with action to mine before it arives, SCV to build rax before it arrives etc, as OP stated, you can do this trick for building too, example: tell SCV to go to location while it's going the SHIFT + build rax at the location it's suposed to arrive to. Normally the SCV would deaccelerate before building, with this trick it will place the rax down right away.
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On August 15 2012 07:18 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 07:12 TheWisp wrote:On August 15 2012 07:06 thezanursic wrote:
REPOST: because I edited with further information assuming you 1 raxx expand I calculated that with minor error if you micro 6 workers you can put down an extra raxx at 3:35 when the CC is supposed to go down (If 5 workers are micro'd perfectly and 6 with minor error) 192M extra if 6 and 160M if 5 at 3:35 (no errors) 3:35 IS THE 1 RAXX CC TIMING!!!
TERRAN:
12 supply= 1:30 = 5 worker micro= 100
When the first supply depot is finished you usually have 80 minerals if you micro at least 4 workers you have 150 and you can put down your raxx 6-7 FUKING SECONDS SOONER!!!
Now further more a Terran usually scouts at 2:05 14 supply so nothing to do before that you have at least 2 minutes to only micro and build a supply/raxx that's 100 minerals for 5 SCVs and 120 for 6 (I'm assuming this is about how much could be managed) and your CC is down at 3:35 now let's assume that you scout your opponent on the last try (or you don't have to micro it much only patrol which doesn't occupy APM)
3:35 that is around the time CC should go down. Soo assuming that you don't micro each SCV will bring in 140 minerals by the time. If SCVs are micro'd they would bring in about 172 minerals. Soo let's assume that we can only gain 28 extra minerals for each SCV (errors) and we do that for 5 SCVs you receive a bonus of 140 if you do that for 6 you get an extra of 168 now.
168 minerals is an extra raxx you could theoretically pull of the same build order, but add another raxx a couple of seconds before expanding or right just so the first marine starts after the CC (If you did it with more or you wouldn't account my errors.
Soo if you were really good you could have put down a CC and a raxx both at 3:35 and still be even with the other guy doing the same build order (You could put it down earlier, but everything would need to be recalculated because of the mining time lost)
If I made a big a error please correct and comment.
PEOPLE THIS IS FUCKING HUGE DON'T MAKE IT OUT TO BE NOTHING. 2 RAXX CC (CC and raxx are simulatinous) IS NOW = NO MICRO 1 RAXX CC Someone mind making a test under slowest speed for minimum mistake? No on minimum speed you could micro a lot more. We need someone on Fastest to try to maximize the amount of workers someone with high APM can micro. It would be useful if everybody goes and tries it and posts how many they can maintain in the first 3-4 mins. I would do it personally, but my computer with SC2 is in repairs and I personally am a pretty high APM player 250ish (Actual APM not reffering to Blizzard time)
Just POC, to be honest i don't believe it can spare me a rax at 3 min...
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This is a really cool discovery but IMO there is no reason to get too excited about it. Blizzard will probably just patch this so that it no longer affects mining efficiency. Although this trick works differently from the old "sockfolding", I think their point of view will probably be the same - that it should be "fixed."
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On August 15 2012 07:19 Martyrc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:14 r.Evo wrote:On August 15 2012 06:01 Mairou wrote:
People who think this feature is good because it can increase the possible skill gap between amateur and pro are wrong. This is not good way to add skill to the game.
First of all most people will never even know about this and Blizzard would never make this official game feature because its based on glitch. Secondly for spectators this would be like invisible war, because no one can actually see who is microing their workers better.
Microing your workers to close mineral patch is enough to do in early game. Later on you can deny enemy mining from close mineral patch with your scouting worker. It's much more efficient way to get ahead in economy, but even in code S most of the players don't do that yet. But that kind of feature is good way to add skill to the game and there should be more features like that. I can't remember any popular game which offered the ability to gain advantages with small glitches like that. Not a single one. (Q3, CS, SCBW just off the top of my head. In fact, sometimes glitches create way better mechanics than actual design because, well.. no one thought about it before.) Tribes....
All the games he mentioned had glitches that eventually became standard in play. He was being sarcastic.
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If they fix this, I really hope they fix the mining AI too. It drives me CRAZY when I have to fight the AI to mine efficiently. I set up mining pairs on close mineral patches, they make 2 or so trips and then the ai moves one of them to a further but empty patch. Why does the AI make my mining less efficient?
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I tried this and I couldn't get very far with just one SCV. In two minutes, I returned 80 minerals on the same mineral patch. It probably makes more of a distance on mineral patches that are further from the CC (I experimented on the close patches on Daybreak). That said, I think that this method would screw up any mineral stacking, which is also pretty damn beneficial. I know that I won't be able to both mineral stack AND do this shift queue trick effectively. It comes down to the map a bit, because mineral patches that are further away make more of a difference, whereas doing this on close patches could screw up a 2 SCV stack and ultimately be worse.
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I only see posts about scvs, does this work for all three races?
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On August 15 2012 06:14 r.Evo wrote:
I can't remember any popular game which offered the ability to gain advantages with small glitches like that. Not a single one.
I wonder how you would classify BW mutalisk stacking 
edit: Oh I see what you did there well played
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I don't know if they'll bother, but this could be easily fixed without breaking anything else. Simply measure the distance between the shift-clicked waypoints and apply deceleration towards the first waypoint if the second is within the normal deceleration distance.
In other words:
"SCV: to A, then Zee! No need to slow, just go go go!"
But SCV, a union man, was wise to boss-man's wiley plan
"Before I start, how far apart," the worker said, "Are A and Zed?"
"They're pretty close," the boss confessed.
"At A I'll take my scheduled rest!"
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Nice stuff! Already tried this
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Thats a sick find but dont get too excited about it, its too apm heavy to make a huge difference
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ok guys i am challenging you all:
who can beat my barracks timing?
http://drop.sc/238828
very early 1:34, nearly 1:33
no worker cutting of course, just mineral stacking and the new mineral boost.
i think 1:33 is possible.
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Will bw pros make it viable?
Also, if it works with protoss, will we see rebirth of 4 gate? Build isnt too apm heavy until the engage, it opens some window....
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On August 15 2012 07:32 astor wrote:
Will bw pros make it viable?
Also, if it works with protoss, will we see rebirth of 4 gate? Build isnt too apm heavy until the engage, it opens some window....
No, for 2 reasons:
1: At low level play, no-one has enough APM to use this effectively.
2: The defender has the same advantage, you will have everything faster too.
Also for all those wondering: It should work for Probes and Drones too. I don't see why not. They have the same AI as SCV's as far as mining is concerned.
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On August 15 2012 07:32 astor wrote:
Will bw pros make it viable?
Also, if it works with protoss, will we see rebirth of 4 gate? Build isnt too apm heavy until the engage, it opens some window....
Oh god no, dear lord no
PATCH THIS SHIT ASAP
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On August 15 2012 07:17 Arctura42 wrote:
Guys...what about mules?
wow nice idea. im thinking if u can do it once or twice on the mule and it will return minerals during last trip
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EPT
