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Mineral boost trick (works in 1.5!) - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
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WeedRa
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany815 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-14 22:00:37
August 14 2012 21:59 GMT
#181
On August 15 2012 06:57 LavaLava wrote:
Oh my god, what if we could beat the 1 second supply block before the first depot finishes?


You just save the money for an earlier factory or don't I get your points its meaningless?
Soze
Profile Joined October 2011
9 Posts
August 14 2012 22:00 GMT
#182
You can use the same technique with the command center rallies.
c0ldfusion
Profile Joined October 2010
United States8293 Posts
August 14 2012 22:01 GMT
#183
On August 15 2012 07:00 Soze wrote:
You can use the same technique with the command center rallies.


Good idea. Gives it that initial kick.
1st_Panzer_Div.
Profile Joined November 2010
United States621 Posts
August 14 2012 22:01 GMT
#184
On August 15 2012 06:55 castlewise wrote:
Everyone says this is "impossible to fix" but it seems like you could just make units stop at each waypoint for 0 seconds. Then you get acceleration/deceleration on either side of the waypoint and this trick doesn't work anymore. Would adding deceleration/acceleration at waypoints break some other part of the game?



Yes. Scouting workers especially, but as people brought up, basically everything would be affected. Just remove woker acceleration/decleration when they are gathering resources.
Manager, Team RIP ZeeZ
Aerisky
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States12129 Posts
August 14 2012 22:02 GMT
#185
What? 24% for each SCV? Imagine if someone just spend all the spamming energy on getting those workers to mine faster for the first few minutes....I thought units slowed down at the waypoints but it seems not to be the case. Is this a bug with 1.5 or has this been true for a while? Interesting...
Jim while Johnny had had had had had had had; had had had had the better effect on the teacher.
BigJoe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States210 Posts
August 14 2012 22:03 GMT
#186
On August 15 2012 06:55 castlewise wrote:
Everyone says this is "impossible to fix" but it seems like you could just make units stop at each waypoint for 0 seconds. Then you get acceleration/deceleration on either side of the waypoint and this trick doesn't work anymore. Would adding deceleration/acceleration at waypoints break some other part of the game?



Scouting for noobs would be very frustating seeing as how many of them que waypoints around main etc..
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
August 14 2012 22:04 GMT
#187
how has nobody figured this out for so long...including myself shame shame
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
TitleRug
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States651 Posts
August 14 2012 22:05 GMT
#188
On August 15 2012 06:52 TheWisp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 06:51 Moonling wrote:
Somebody may have said this already, but this works on mules....

Sadly even with the trick, a MULE can never gather for 10 full trips. Mostlikely it will only gather 30 more mineral but wasted ( rather than not gathered )

Actually it is possible now with this trick. It took me five or more tries, but I finally got a MULE to get all 10 trips barely. You have to do the trick when it moves towards the minerals and than also when it moves to the orbital command. It only works on close mineral patches as far as I can tell.
coLCruncher fighting!
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10382 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-14 22:05:50
August 14 2012 22:05 GMT
#189
I'm actually hoping they get rid of this, i don't want us to have to be forced/pressured to put that much effort at the beginning ^^;;

and it may mess with build orders once all the pros start doing this...
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
thezanursic
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
5504 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-14 22:12:12
August 14 2012 22:06 GMT
#190
REPOST: because I edited with further information assuming you 1 raxx expand I calculated that with minor error if you micro 6 workers you can put down an extra raxx at 3:35 when the CC is supposed to go down (If 5 workers are micro'd perfectly and 6 with minor error) 192M extra if 6 and 160M if 5 at 3:35 (no errors) 3:35 IS THE 1 RAXX CC TIMING!!!

TERRAN:

12 supply= 1:30 = 5 worker micro= 100

When the first supply depot is finished you usually have 80 minerals if you micro at least 4 workers you have 150 and you can put down your raxx 6-7 FUKING SECONDS SOONER!!!

Now further more a Terran usually scouts at 2:05 14 supply so nothing to do before that you have at least 2 minutes to only micro and build a supply/raxx that's 100 minerals for 5 SCVs and 120 for 6 (I'm assuming this is about how much could be managed) and your CC is down at 3:35 now let's assume that you scout your opponent on the last try (or you don't have to micro it much only patrol which doesn't occupy APM)

3:35 that is around the time CC should go down. Soo assuming that you don't micro each SCV will bring in 140 minerals by the time. If SCVs are micro'd they would bring in about 172 minerals. Soo let's assume that we can only gain 28 extra minerals for each SCV (errors) and we do that for 5 SCVs you receive a bonus of 140 if you do that for 6 you get an extra of 168 now.

168 minerals is an extra raxx you could theoretically pull of the same build order, but add another raxx a couple of seconds before expanding or right just so the first marine starts after the CC (If you did it with more or you wouldn't account my errors.

Soo if you were really good you could have put down a CC and a raxx both at 3:35 and still be even with the other guy doing the same build order (You could put it down earlier, but everything would need to be recalculated because of the mining time lost)

One more question: Did you ever imagine 6 pooling with an extra set of lings well now you can with an extractor trick (you do have 1 spare larva right? I'm not zerg and I don't plan to calculate or study this I'm just giving theoretical possibilties)!

If I made a big a error please correct and comment.


PEOPLE THIS IS FUCKING HUGE DON'T MAKE IT OUT TO BE NOTHING. 2 RAXX CC (CC and raxx are simulatinous) IS NOW = NO MICRO 1 RAXX CC


Ohh and can we ask a pro to actually try this trick (I only want to know how many workers he can micro in the first 3:00-4:00 minutes!
http://i45.tinypic.com/9j2cdc.jpg Let it be so!
TheWisp
Profile Joined July 2012
45 Posts
August 14 2012 22:08 GMT
#191
On August 15 2012 07:05 TitleRug wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 06:52 TheWisp wrote:
On August 15 2012 06:51 Moonling wrote:
Somebody may have said this already, but this works on mules....

Sadly even with the trick, a MULE can never gather for 10 full trips. Mostlikely it will only gather 30 more mineral but wasted ( rather than not gathered )

Actually it is possible now with this trick. It took me five or more tries, but I finally got a MULE to get all 10 trips barely. You have to do the trick when it moves towards the minerals and than also when it moves to the orbital command. It only works on close mineral patches as far as I can tell.

By the time the player has Mule, it doesn't really matter anymore. Any slight mistake is far bigger than this advantage.
but first depo / rax timing is too important
TitleRug
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States651 Posts
August 14 2012 22:11 GMT
#192
On August 15 2012 07:08 TheWisp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 07:05 TitleRug wrote:
On August 15 2012 06:52 TheWisp wrote:
On August 15 2012 06:51 Moonling wrote:
Somebody may have said this already, but this works on mules....

Sadly even with the trick, a MULE can never gather for 10 full trips. Mostlikely it will only gather 30 more mineral but wasted ( rather than not gathered )

Actually it is possible now with this trick. It took me five or more tries, but I finally got a MULE to get all 10 trips barely. You have to do the trick when it moves towards the minerals and than also when it moves to the orbital command. It only works on close mineral patches as far as I can tell.

By the time the player has Mule, it doesn't really matter anymore. Any slight mistake is far bigger than this advantage.
but first depo / rax timing is too important

Yeah it's only 30 minerals for an absurd amount of APM just one MULE. One mistake and the 30 minerals are gone. I agree that it's probably not worth the effort.
coLCruncher fighting!
Soze
Profile Joined October 2011
9 Posts
August 14 2012 22:11 GMT
#193
On August 15 2012 07:01 c0ldfusion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 07:00 Soze wrote:
You can use the same technique with the command center rallies.


Good idea. Gives it that initial kick.

Less apm required as well. I can only imagine this trick being useful before you start double stacking.
BigJoe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States210 Posts
August 14 2012 22:12 GMT
#194
I wonder how this would change gas first openings if you micro'd your workers for gas
TheWisp
Profile Joined July 2012
45 Posts
August 14 2012 22:12 GMT
#195
On August 15 2012 07:06 thezanursic wrote:
REPOST: because I edited with further information assuming you 1 raxx expand I calculated that with minor error if you micro 6 workers you can put down an extra raxx at 3:35 when the CC is supposed to go down (If 5 workers are micro'd perfectly and 6 with minor error) 192M extra if 6 and 160M if 5 at 3:35 (no errors) 3:35 IS THE 1 RAXX CC TIMING!!!

TERRAN:

12 supply= 1:30 = 5 worker micro= 100

When the first supply depot is finished you usually have 80 minerals if you micro at least 4 workers you have 150 and you can put down your raxx 6-7 FUKING SECONDS SOONER!!!

Now further more a Terran usually scouts at 2:05 14 supply so nothing to do before that you have at least 2 minutes to only micro and build a supply/raxx that's 100 minerals for 5 SCVs and 120 for 6 (I'm assuming this is about how much could be managed) and your CC is down at 3:35 now let's assume that you scout your opponent on the last try (or you don't have to micro it much only patrol which doesn't occupy APM)

3:35 that is around the time CC should go down. Soo assuming that you don't micro each SCV will bring in 140 minerals by the time. If SCVs are micro'd they would bring in about 172 minerals. Soo let's assume that we can only gain 28 extra minerals for each SCV (errors) and we do that for 5 SCVs you receive a bonus of 140 if you do that for 6 you get an extra of 168 now.

168 minerals is an extra raxx you could theoretically pull of the same build order, but add another raxx a couple of seconds before expanding or right just so the first marine starts after the CC (If you did it with more or you wouldn't account my errors.

Soo if you were really good you could have put down a CC and a raxx both at 3:35 and still be even with the other guy doing the same build order (You could put it down earlier, but everything would need to be recalculated because of the mining time lost)

If I made a big a error please correct and comment.


PEOPLE THIS IS FUCKING HUGE DON'T MAKE IT OUT TO BE NOTHING. 2 RAXX CC (CC and raxx are simulatinous) IS NOW = NO MICRO 1 RAXX CC


Someone mind making a test under slowest speed for minimum mistake?
TheWisp
Profile Joined July 2012
45 Posts
August 14 2012 22:13 GMT
#196
On August 15 2012 07:12 BigJoe wrote:
I wonder how this would change gas first openings if you micro'd your workers for gas

It works on gas as well as mineral.
but since 3 workers saturate the gas, why bother microing it ?
Reborn8u
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1761 Posts
August 14 2012 22:14 GMT
#197
Does this work for protoss? I'm wondering if you could 2 gate without delaying gas or cyber.
:)
Cocoba
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada352 Posts
August 14 2012 22:14 GMT
#198
I definitely don't think this is useless as some others have posted about it. If this doesn't get patched, every pro will start doing this as if they don't they will fall pretty behind compared to their opponent. By doing this trick, it's like having an extra worker in the early game and when you only have 6 to begin with, it makes up a huge percentage of your overall income.
:D
BigJoe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States210 Posts
August 14 2012 22:14 GMT
#199
On August 15 2012 07:13 TheWisp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 07:12 BigJoe wrote:
I wonder how this would change gas first openings if you micro'd your workers for gas

It works on gas as well as mineral.
but since 3 workers saturate the gas, why bother microing it ?

You could increase mineral income if you get same gas income with less workers perhaps?
Fearlezz
Profile Joined April 2010
Croatia176 Posts
August 14 2012 22:14 GMT
#200
I hope Blizzard leaves this alone. It gives the players with apm to spare something meaningful to do for the first minute or two instead of boxing workers for no reason. It also has nice risk/reward ratio (lost more than gained/rax down 2 sec sooner) and is very apm/micro intensive so I can't see how this is bad, in my opinion it just adds to the game.
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