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On August 15 2012 06:14 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:01 Mairou wrote:
People who think this feature is good because it can increase the possible skill gap between amateur and pro are wrong. This is not good way to add skill to the game.
First of all most people will never even know about this and Blizzard would never make this official game feature because its based on glitch. Secondly for spectators this would be like invisible war, because no one can actually see who is microing their workers better.
Microing your workers to close mineral patch is enough to do in early game. Later on you can deny enemy mining from close mineral patch with your scouting worker. It's much more efficient way to get ahead in economy, but even in code S most of the players don't do that yet. But that kind of feature is good way to add skill to the game and there should be more features like that. I can't remember any popular game which offered the ability to gain advantages with small glitches like that. Not a single one. (Q3, CS, SCBW just off the top of my head. In fact, sometimes glitches create way better mechanics than actual design because, well.. no one thought about it before.)
The reason LOZ: Orcarina of Time is so legendary is because of all it's amazing glitches that make the game fun in more ways than was every though possible 
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This works on mules aswell , just saying ;D
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to make it even easier you can hold shift while the worker is returning the minerals to queue the move command and then queue the mine command.
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On August 15 2012 06:31 kaokentake wrote:
if you do this PERFECTLY, it will net you maybe 20 extra minerals by the time you are at 14food and doing this becomes a BAD IDEA
i garuntee if you put 12workers on your minerals, and TRIED to do this you would end up with maybe 101% of the income over TWO MINUTES while spending 100% of your apm on this
so thats like... 5 extra minerals over 2 minutes
and if you put 16 workers on minerals, likely your income would go DOWN
and most games reach 16 workers around the time shortly after the first barracks is thrown down\
this is impossible to fix
but minimal at best (20 mineral increase for a PRO who is pro at doing this)
i see no problem
even a buffed 6pool isnt a problem with this. and its impossible to fix anyway
TERRAN:
12 supply= 1:30 = 5 worker micro= 100
When the first supply depot is finished you usually have 80 minerals if you micro at least 4 workers you have 150 and you can put down your raxx 6-7 FUKING SECONDS SOONER!!!
Now further more a Terran usually scouts at 2:05 14 supply so nothing to do before that you have at least 2 minutes to only micro and build a supply/raxx that's 100 minerals for 5 SCVs and 120 for 6 (I'm assuming this is about how much could be managed) and your CC is down at 3:35 now let's assume that you scout your opponent on the last try (or you don't have to micro it much only patrol which doesn't occupy APM)
3:35 that is around the time CC should go down. Soo assuming that you don't micro each SCV will bring in 140 minerals by the time. If SCVs are micro'd they would bring in about 172 minerals. Soo let's assume that we can only gain 28 extra minerals for each SCV (errors) and we do that for 5 SCVs you receive a bonus of 140 if you do that for 6 you get an extra of 168 now.
168 minerals is an extra raxx you could theoretically pull of the same build order, but add another raxx a couple of seconds before expanding or right just so the first marine starts after the CC (If you did it with more or you wouldn't account my errors.
Soo if you were really good you could have put down a CC and a raxx both at 3:35 and still be even with the other guy doing the same build order (You could put it down earlier, but everything would need to be recalculated because of the mining time lost)
If I made a big a error please correct and comment.
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Has this technique been by any pro gamer in a real match yet?
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This is awesome Finally I have something to do early-early game ;p
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On August 15 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:31 kaokentake wrote:
if you do this PERFECTLY, it will net you maybe 20 extra minerals by the time you are at 14food and doing this becomes a BAD IDEA
i garuntee if you put 12workers on your minerals, and TRIED to do this you would end up with maybe 101% of the income over TWO MINUTES while spending 100% of your apm on this
so thats like... 5 extra minerals over 2 minutes
and if you put 16 workers on minerals, likely your income would go DOWN
and most games reach 16 workers around the time shortly after the first barracks is thrown down\
this is impossible to fix
but minimal at best (20 mineral increase for a PRO who is pro at doing this)
i see no problem
even a buffed 6pool isnt a problem with this. and its impossible to fix anyway TERRAN: 12 supply= 1:30 = 5 worker micro= 100 When the first supply depot is finished you usually have 80 minerals if you micro at least 4 workers you have 150 and you can put down your raxx 6-7 FUKING SECONDS SOONER!!!
This is exactly the kind of data I was looking for Thank you for testing this out, that is a HUGE difference. I like to time when my rax goes down to see how well I'm stacking my workers. It usually goes down 1:38-1:41 so if I can get earlier than that I will be VERY happy.
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The real question on everyone's mind, is how many seconds can we shave off a 6 pool?
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My question is, can you shift queue the scv to the mineral and then shift click next to the CC, then CC, and then again on the mineral to reduce the delay while delivering? Or while turning around it doesn't cause any delay?
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Somebody may have said this already, but this works on mules....
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On August 15 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:31 kaokentake wrote:
if you do this PERFECTLY, it will net you maybe 20 extra minerals by the time you are at 14food and doing this becomes a BAD IDEA
i garuntee if you put 12workers on your minerals, and TRIED to do this you would end up with maybe 101% of the income over TWO MINUTES while spending 100% of your apm on this
so thats like... 5 extra minerals over 2 minutes
and if you put 16 workers on minerals, likely your income would go DOWN
and most games reach 16 workers around the time shortly after the first barracks is thrown down\
this is impossible to fix
but minimal at best (20 mineral increase for a PRO who is pro at doing this)
i see no problem
even a buffed 6pool isnt a problem with this. and its impossible to fix anyway TERRAN: 12 supply= 1:30 = 5 worker micro= 100 When the first supply depot is finished you usually have 80 minerals if you micro at least 4 workers you have 150 and you can put down your raxx 6-7 FUKING SECONDS SOONER!!!
This is game changing. Right now pros who scout a terran base do it knowing that the first marine pops out at about 3:11. If this gains popularity it wil completely change the early game.
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On August 15 2012 06:51 Moonling wrote:
Somebody may have said this already, but this works on mules....
Sadly even with the trick, a MULE can never gather for 10 full trips. Mostlikely it will only gather 30 more mineral but wasted ( rather than not gathered )
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Everyone says this is "impossible to fix" but it seems like you could just make units stop at each waypoint for 0 seconds. Then you get acceleration/deceleration on either side of the waypoint and this trick doesn't work anymore. Would adding deceleration/acceleration at waypoints break some other part of the game?
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interesting. Will have to try to use this in my games.
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On August 15 2012 06:55 castlewise wrote:
Everyone says this is "impossible to fix" but it seems like you could just make units stop at each waypoint for 0 seconds. Then you get acceleration/deceleration on either side of the waypoint and this trick doesn't work anymore. Would adding deceleration/acceleration at waypoints break some other part of the game?
like, dropship waypoints.
Oh, waypoint blink won't work anymore then...
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On August 15 2012 06:49 BigJoe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote:On August 15 2012 06:31 kaokentake wrote:
if you do this PERFECTLY, it will net you maybe 20 extra minerals by the time you are at 14food and doing this becomes a BAD IDEA
i garuntee if you put 12workers on your minerals, and TRIED to do this you would end up with maybe 101% of the income over TWO MINUTES while spending 100% of your apm on this
so thats like... 5 extra minerals over 2 minutes
and if you put 16 workers on minerals, likely your income would go DOWN
and most games reach 16 workers around the time shortly after the first barracks is thrown down\
this is impossible to fix
but minimal at best (20 mineral increase for a PRO who is pro at doing this)
i see no problem
even a buffed 6pool isnt a problem with this. and its impossible to fix anyway TERRAN: 12 supply= 1:30 = 5 worker micro= 100 When the first supply depot is finished you usually have 80 minerals if you micro at least 4 workers you have 150 and you can put down your raxx 6-7 FUKING SECONDS SOONER!!! This is exactly the kind of data I was looking for Thank you for testing this out, that is a HUGE difference. I like to time when my rax goes down to see how well I'm stacking my workers. It usually goes down 1:38-1:41 so if I can get earlier than that I will be VERY happy.
Oh my god, what if we could beat the 1 second supply block before the first depot finishes?
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On August 15 2012 06:55 castlewise wrote:
Everyone says this is "impossible to fix" but it seems like you could just make units stop at each waypoint for 0 seconds. Then you get acceleration/deceleration on either side of the waypoint and this trick doesn't work anymore. Would adding deceleration/acceleration at waypoints break some other part of the game?
that doesn't seem like a good option, they could instead make SCVs not decelerate toward minerals, and then just take slightly longer to mine a patch.
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On August 15 2012 06:50 Flood1993 wrote:
My question is, can you shift queue the scv to the mineral and then shift click next to the CC, then CC, and then again on the mineral to reduce the delay while delivering? Or while turning around it doesn't cause any delay?
I quote myself, I am right now trying to do it and it seems doable, but if not perfectly queued, the drone will go to mine again without returning the minerals.
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United States4126 Posts
Knowing blizzard, they're going to patch this quickly like they did to sockfolding.
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On August 15 2012 06:57 LavaLava wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 06:49 BigJoe wrote:On August 15 2012 06:42 thezanursic wrote:On August 15 2012 06:31 kaokentake wrote:
if you do this PERFECTLY, it will net you maybe 20 extra minerals by the time you are at 14food and doing this becomes a BAD IDEA
i garuntee if you put 12workers on your minerals, and TRIED to do this you would end up with maybe 101% of the income over TWO MINUTES while spending 100% of your apm on this
so thats like... 5 extra minerals over 2 minutes
and if you put 16 workers on minerals, likely your income would go DOWN
and most games reach 16 workers around the time shortly after the first barracks is thrown down\
this is impossible to fix
but minimal at best (20 mineral increase for a PRO who is pro at doing this)
i see no problem
even a buffed 6pool isnt a problem with this. and its impossible to fix anyway TERRAN: 12 supply= 1:30 = 5 worker micro= 100 When the first supply depot is finished you usually have 80 minerals if you micro at least 4 workers you have 150 and you can put down your raxx 6-7 FUKING SECONDS SOONER!!! This is exactly the kind of data I was looking for Thank you for testing this out, that is a HUGE difference. I like to time when my rax goes down to see how well I'm stacking my workers. It usually goes down 1:38-1:41 so if I can get earlier than that I will be VERY happy. Oh my god, what if we could beat the 1 second supply block before the first depot finishes?
mineral stack + mineral boost + get to build position faster (see OP)
it's definitely possible
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EPT
