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On August 14 2012 11:05 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 11:04 VPCursed wrote:
can people calm the fuck down and wait for beta to launch? Everyone seems to be jumping the gun on balance atm.. we don't know how things will play out when professionals get their hands on the game It's not a balance issue, at all. It's the direction they're patently trying to take this game in a design sense. More risk-free no-rush expansion plays? -Check More a-movable armies - Check
On August 14 2012 11:07 dLG)Bananenbaum wrote:
i just dont get why warhounds have a AUTOMATIC spell again.
this is even worse then pheonix attacking automatic while moving.
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Their intension with mech play in HOTS is to make a less micro-intenssive style for terran, they have stated this on multiple occations. There is no news here.
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Would be nice to see good players using the new units or at least the players trying to play properly. I get that they want to show the new units in action but we've seen what they do in other videos. What they should be showing is how the new units work as part of proper strategies and compositions. Really unimpressed.
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I really don't like the design of HoTS TvP currently, mostly regarding
A) Oracles: They simply break the flow of mining far too much, and seem to be a weak substitute for a real harassment unit. Far too powerful in the early game.
B) Mothership Core: I really dislike the extremely early Recall usage, because it allows a Protoss to do early damage and simply flee with little to no consequences. If anything, this will encourage use of Bio even more because Terrans are forced to use Bio to face against the early Protoss rushes efficiently and quickly, rather than going for Mech.
C) Terran Mech: It simply makes any Protoss ground army melt in seconds, which is ridiculous. Regardless of the Protoss in the video, positioning doesn't play the biggest role when the Mech will evaporate any ground unit in three seconds, even Archons.
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On August 14 2012 11:04 VPCursed wrote:
can people calm the fuck down and wait for beta to launch? Everyone seems to be jumping the gun on balance atm.. we don't know how things will play out when professionals get their hands on the game
People aren't really complaining about balance, they are complaining about how terribly designed it looks and pros playing it won't change that.
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I don't understand the 1A argument at all..... you don't just 1 A.. there is a'lot of planning and tactical play that goes into builds and how you use your units.. its not so cut and dry as 1A....... ppl just don't understand the game at a high level
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Is this the first time David Kim lost a Battle Report?
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On August 14 2012 11:11 VPCursed wrote:
I don't understand the 1A argument at all..... you don't just 1 A.. there is a'lot of planning and tactical play that goes into builds and how you use your units.. its not so cut and dry as 1A.....
Yes, mech as it stands, careful repositioning of siege lines, the difficulty of getting there etc etc. Speedy hellions zipping around the place. New mech doesn't look like a continuation of that noble tradition, in any way.
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The thing I dont like about the Tempest is that I dont even see it, because of the range :D
Talking about watching as a spectator ofcourse
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I'm confused... Can the Tempest not attack air? Don't think I saw them fire at the vikings once.
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Things I don't like:
-Mothership core range. How does it have longer range than a siege tank? A seige tank is ment to siege/micro up/force you to attack. Mothership core does enough dps that it can kill a few tanks getting in rank before they can be effective. This is ridiculous.
-The tempest range is just dumb. 'hey you just beat the crap out of me in a fight, but as im retreating my 5 tempests will still kill a bunch of units for free'... It's almost like the tempests are so terrible becasue they are so far out of the battle that it makes less ground army "beef if you will" to last longer vs Terran Mech.
-The 22 range or whatever is so dumb, you want to promote Terran Mech in this game, but you give Protoss a unit to hit seige tanks (terran defense/macro style) can be killed from so far away. I feel like Tempests would be perfect if they had like 10-11 range TOPS.
-I feel like too much of Terran now, TvP/TvZ will be relied on vikings taking out the broods/tempests without getting stormed/fungaled. If you make too many vikings its the same problem, then they are worthless and enemy has advantage because you have all this crap supply of vikings.
-Why would I waste time killing rocks to cover up a path when I could just make 1 ebay+2 supply depots to cover it/allow me to pass when I control the depots? That won't be that useful for Terran in my opinion. I don't know maybe I'm missing it.
-I really don't like how Blizzard is making Terran into "hey you either HAVE TO go Bio or Mech". I'd like to see the true power of Terran be a strong combo. However I'm just not seeing it. Maybe if they would allow something like Hellions (in walker form) to be healed by medics or something. I mean there's still a person in there. You might think thats crazy but how can Marauder's get healed by Hellion walker form not? WarHounds look really fucking cost effective, its scary. Not sure why you would ever making Thors again. Might be cool to bring back that "hero thor" idea again because I can't see a reason to get them besides vs muta....
I know its alpha, I know things will change, but this is the current state we are talking about. I just image Terran finally being able to have a nice mid map, spread of mech defense with mines, turrets, tanks, hounds, some hellion...and the Tempest just auto attacks from the protoss natural to take it out... Not giving them any money if that makes it out of beta.
durdur we can't think of any ideas, lets just make units with longer range... i hate it
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i set my hopes on the widowmine to save mech play but i doubt it :[
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
What the fuck is this protoss doing
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I wish entombed is not casted automatically on all mineral patches. maybe a click for each patch so that at least it would require some form of micro...
I love how Protoss has a new (hopefully would be part of standard) opening though instead of just gate-core or ffe...
And I wonder, what if you had units on the location where the collapsible rock debris would collapse? would the unit get crushed?
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On August 14 2012 11:08 Warpath wrote:This report made carriers look like they'd be pretty good. Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 11:05 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 14 2012 11:04 VPCursed wrote:
can people calm the fuck down and wait for beta to launch? Everyone seems to be jumping the gun on balance atm.. we don't know how things will play out when professionals get their hands on the game It's not a balance issue, at all. It's the direction they're patently trying to take this game in a design sense. More risk-free no-rush expansion plays? -Check More a-movable armies - Check um.. what exactly are you arguing with this? We've wanted safe expansion play -> large macro game...
No one wants that... large macro games can be great but it's because we don't necessarily get there every game. Early pressure and early wins must remain viable for a healthy metagame and spectating experience.
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Some thoughts
- Map was horrible. The ice one was actually kinda passable, this one is just bad.
- Mech ball actually looks really ugly aesthetically. Seeing those battle hellions, warhounds and tanks clunking around all clumped. Would be nice to see players actually spread out their units rather than a-move them. If there were a way to make Terran have to spread out mech units that would be nice
- Some of the graphics for the projectiles need to be reworked, it looked really really messy, especially when there are 10 Haywire missiles going on at the same time.
- Collapsible rock towers are really dumb and add nothing whatsoever to the game.
- I don't understand why can't they just make Widow mines into Spider mines built from factories and controllable. The time lag from when it's attached is just really boring to watch.
- David Kim actually lost? Wtf?
As far as balance goes, we'll have to wait till the game is out before commenting I guess, but so far was kinda disappointed by this one. The ZvP and TvZ previews were better IMO.
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I'm really worried about Mass Recall - run units in which would normally be absolute suicide - Mass recall - Kill alot of things at no expense but Chrono energy.
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On August 14 2012 11:12 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 11:11 VPCursed wrote:
I don't understand the 1A argument at all..... you don't just 1 A.. there is a'lot of planning and tactical play that goes into builds and how you use your units.. its not so cut and dry as 1A..... Yes, mech as it stands, careful repositioning of siege lines, the difficulty of getting there etc etc. Speedy hellions zipping around the place. New mech doesn't look like a continuation of that noble tradition, in any way.
well the problem was tanks are fucking dead instantly if zealots get to them or immortals... terran needed a proper support unit... god forbid toss needs to find proper positioning to engage a terran army now.
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Why is the warhound still so ugly is my only question
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I really wish that blizzard would not put anymore rocks, or anything ridiculously broken into the game. The oracle, although not an offensive unit, being able to block all of the minerals like that is ridiculously broken. I like that it has the cloak ability like the arbiters, but the mineral guarding seems like too much. the core itself, seems like another broken part, the recall is fine, but I feel like the recall ability should be given to the oracle, and the range on that "purify" ability seems to be too much. The tempest, having that much range speaks for itself. Take out the thor, give warhound the ability to hit air and ground, the battle hellions seem sort of meh, and the widow mines are a bit too powerful. The widow mines should be part of the hellions, instead of a unit. Zerg seems to be fine. Basically, I wish dustin browder would stop trying to make starcraft into command and conquer. They're dumbing down the game.
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EPT
