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I think most people here on TL are the ones who are really biased as well.
I though the article was pretty good and the main point they were trying to make that there is a good side, the "Pro Gaming", and then there is the bad side, which are the people who simply "Must play", the reason they portrayed MKP as an "addict" was mainly "that he couldn't stop playing" which they pointed out in the article, because he was always playing video games, and probably wasn't doing the mandatory amount of exercise.
There is a really cool side of competitive gaming which is e-sports, but we should also remember that there are people who kind of are addicted to it, also when people like Tasteless/CNN speak about the addiction part is when people play 12-16+ hours playing games WITHOUT the proper dieting and exercise as pointed out by the IM coach and also people like Nada (check The Hax Life).
TL:DR: Gaming is good as long as it doesn't take over your life (not eating, lack of sleep/exercise), so don't just bash CNN for being biased when they actually have quite some objective stuff to say in their video's.
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The article is not nearly as biased as some of you guys make it out to be. I read it more as MKP's triumphant rise to the top and how his family came together for him than anything really stigmatizing gaming lol
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It's difficult to really defend gaming much. I know a bunch of people on this site tend to have knee-jerk reactions to articles like this talking about "gaming addiction," but the truth is that it's simply difficult to sit down and point at gaming and to explain very clearly how it actually benefits a person aside from potentially making them a bunch of cash if they're exceptional at a game that will probably die out in less than 15 years. It doesn't benefit you physically (like many sports do), it doesn't benefit you mentally in ways that will help you dramatically later in life, and it basically destroys a lot of your earning potential starting in your early teens through to your thirties if you stick with it that long, while making you practice 10 hours a day (at least) for a game that'll be irrelevant in a decade or two.
Honestly, if you even listen to some progamers (even ones who've made decent bank) talk about progaming as a career choice for their potential children, a lot of them just flat-out say that they wouldn't let their kids get into it because it's simply not a way to make a good living unless you are one-in-a-million. One very successful individual in particular who has made a lot of bank has said that if he could go back, he'd go to college and get a degree in business over progaming.
Obviously, it's going a bit far to say that progamers are "addicted" to gaming. I think it's difficult to separate out, at this point in their careers, playing a lot because they're addicted and playing a lot because it's their job and also because it's pretty much the only thing they know. It's easier to tell who is "addicted" with people who aren't progamers, imo.
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On August 06 2012 03:02 Tyree wrote:
Doing anything but breathing for 10 hours straight a day is grounds to call it a addiction problem.
TL gets defensive about it because its Starcraft, if someone came here and said they played WoW for 10 hours they would get laughed off the forum, called addict loser freak. If they said they listened to Justin Bieber albums all day long they would get equal treatment.
Biggest 2 issues in esports is that the nature of the thing means that progamers have to practice insane amount of hours a day, if they dont they will simply not be able to compete regardless of talent. "Real sports" avoids this by the very nature that your body will be harmed if you played football for 10 hours a day, or did any sport. It would injure you and strain your muscles.
The other issue is cold hard $$$, for every Flash, Nada and Boxer there is 10.000 others who practice just as hard and never make it past being mere practice partners.
You cannot parade the exception to the rule around and say "look how far we have come!" when that is not the rule, most progamers make less money and work harder than most people who work minimal pay jobs.
The insane expectations put on them by their sponsors, pressure and traveling is grueling. esports is still in infancy stages, i just hope it advances further.
The article was fine, and like i said, anyone who does anything for 10 hours a day, better get paid large sums of money for it. Most serious SC2 players do not get paid peanuts let alone any kind of real money to sustain themselves.
Do we really *know* that practicing 10 hours a day is needed to reach the top? If the only reason football players aren't out there practicing 10 hours a day is because there's a physical limit for them, why aren't musicians known for practicing 10-12 hours a day? It's pretty clear that the longer you practice the more your returns diminish, so I think it stands to reason that a shorter practice schedule might actually be more optimal. Most of the korean pros have some kind of injury resulting from playing so much, after all. Furthermore, a fair amount of gamers seem to be suffering from depression issues that might be helped by just...playing less and going outside a little more.
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According to the logic in this thread, working a night shift is equivalent to addiction.
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I just want to bring attention to the comments, I'm not sure anyone has noticed this yet.
From jdsutter, CNN representative: "Inspired by your thoughtful comments, I'm going to write a follow-up story on whether the best video gamers should be considered athletes. If you have additional thoughts on this -- how video gamers are the same as/different from Olympians -- please reply to this thread. And thanks!"
He also posted about inaccuracies in the original story that were later corrected (after SC2 fans pointed them out in comments). Just so you know, CNN is actually reading these comments.
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I can't believe how butt-hurt most of you are getting over this article. Seriously?
This article is giving MKP props for being one of the people who channeled his desire to play games into something that has become a positive thing in his life. Unfortunately, there are thousands of people who try exactly what he's doing and fail, and lose all of their non e-relationships along the way.
I don't have kids yet, but when I do, I can guarantee you I wouldn't want them spending 20 hours per day playing video games. I'd much rather they were outside staying fit and building lasting relationships. But, like this article points out, if they are dead-set on becoming a pro-gamer, I would support their efforts (so long as they are sane about it).
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Article is surprisingly good. Add in the fact that they are monitoring the comments and applying corrections, I think this a a surprisingly open-minded article.
Of course, there are things I am against or can nitpick, but what can you expect from someone who thought Kas was a zerg player? If you aren't familiar with the scene, you're definitely going to be unfamiliar with the way things are around here, and are probably going to judge, to one degree or another.
Overall, better than I would expect to see from a major news outlet. Looking foward to the next one.
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Canada1169 Posts
This is actually bringing such bad publicity to esports, its actually quite absurd comparing progaming to gaming addition. Progamers play countless hours because its their job, not necessarily because they are addicted -_-
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I thought this was a good article.
Gaming addiction is apparently a real problem and I don't see the issue in giving both sides (which this article does).
I would actually like to learn more about *why* gaming is such an addicting hobby; I think there's something more to it than games just being fun. The article alludes to it being some sort of escape mechanism ("fantasy") but doesn't really go there.
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This article is good. Not sure why everyone is so butt hurt when the author is trying to show the fine line between pro-gaming and addicts.
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I saw the article as MKP proving to his parents and people around him that thought he was addicted that he was playing to be a professional, which is a positive thing. He wasn't gaming so much because he absolutely needed to, he was doing it because he wanted to be good enough to do it for a living. This is in contrast to those who play for the sake of altering their mood to the point where it destroys their life, which the article says in a negative. It was fairly well written, and I liked it. Good story about MKP too. I'm really happy that they were able to accept his becoming a progamer.
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On August 06 2012 05:47 PrimeTimey wrote:
This article is good. Not sure why everyone is so butt hurt when the author is trying to show the fine line between pro-gaming and addicts.
Because the two aren't actually the same. People see someone doing something a lot and they automatically think "hey! he must be addicted, because that's all he does." No, that is not how it works.
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On August 06 2012 06:02 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 05:47 PrimeTimey wrote:
This article is good. Not sure why everyone is so butt hurt when the author is trying to show the fine line between pro-gaming and addicts. Because the two aren't actually the same. People see someone doing something a lot and they automatically think "hey! he must be addicted, because that's all he does." No, that is not how it works.
So you agree with the article.
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There are also so many errors in this article that its painfully obvious the writer didn't take any time to research the sc2 pro scene at all, like for example
"Relatively unknown player Ukrainian player Kas" -also mentions he played Zerg LOL
"MKP won a tournament in 2009 that certified him as an official progamer" - Doesn't mention this was a Starcraft ONE Courage tournament
"MKP hugs his teammate MVP" - Uhh they're on separate teams
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Do we really *know* that practicing 10 hours a day is needed to reach the top? If the only reason football players aren't out there practicing 10 hours a day is because there's a physical limit for them, why aren't musicians known for practicing 10-12 hours a day? It's pretty clear that the longer you practice the more your returns diminish, so I think it stands to reason that a shorter practice schedule might actually be more optimal. Most of the korean pros have some kind of injury resulting from playing so much, after all. Furthermore, a fair amount of gamers seem to be suffering from depression issues that might be helped by just...playing less and going outside a little more.
Musicians have a physical limit as well, and it depends on the instrument.
Many talented musicians have ruined their career by over-practicing and injuring themselves.
The article is not nearly as biased as some of you guys make it out to be. I read it more as MKP's triumphant rise to the top and how his family came together for him than anything really stigmatizing gaming lol
me too. The stories from his childhood are definitely something that parents would worry about, but it also means that in marineking's case it worked out well. Just because it worked out for him doesn't mean that every kid who stops going to school to play video games for 20 hours a day is going to be a successful pro-gamer. The psychologist's distinction at the end is important.
If you want even more balance, look at the two stories (MVP and MKP) together as a whole. The MVP one touches on a lot more positives as well.
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I was first happy when i saw there was a documentary released by CNN about Sc2 and eSport on Reddit,although I have only seen World class gamer:Inside look at MVP but later on I read the entire thing and then I have been blown away...What the hell is that?
For instance,I was deeply shocked by these few lines: MarineKing's competitor was DarKFoRce, from Germany, whose oily hair and sleep-deprived face made him look like the American stereotype of an obsessed video game player.
Such an article is highly degrading and disrespectfull regarding MarineKing & MVP.
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This article would look much better if the word "addicted" would be changed with "obsession". Simple thing is that bringing out addiction and top-notch SC2 players makes it painful to read for me.
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On August 06 2012 06:06 Kordox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 06:02 Shiori wrote:On August 06 2012 05:47 PrimeTimey wrote:
This article is good. Not sure why everyone is so butt hurt when the author is trying to show the fine line between pro-gaming and addicts. Because the two aren't actually the same. People see someone doing something a lot and they automatically think "hey! he must be addicted, because that's all he does." No, that is not how it works. So you agree with the article.
The article is nebulous because it's not clear what the author is actually trying to say. Up until the comments from Dr. Han, it seems like the author really wants to say that progaming is intimately associated with addiction ("dark side of gaming," MKP typing "go" somehow implicating addiction etc. etc.). The problem I have with this isn't that the article is necessarily saying something incorrect, but that it's not balanced. You can't write page after page heavily implying that there is a dark side to progaming and that it probably has something to do with addiction and then write a short paragraph about the plausible alternative. My gripe has less to do with the conclusion being right or wrong and more to do with the fact that the article is simply written in uneven proportion. If you want to write something expository, then you have to give both sides equal time and plausibility. You can't imply one side for the vast majority of the article (and for virtually all of the narrative voice) and then include a sort of addendum addressing the other side at the end. It's not really fair because one side is overrepresented.
It's kinda like if you talked about some politician's bill and went on and on expressing how it might result in some really awful consequences, or how it might be abused, or how people are concerned about it, and then at the very end you include a small statement from someone else saying that these complaints are based on a misreading of the bill. It's not very effective, it's not really fair to either position, and it's simply incomplete journalism.
I love that the author is willing to amend his article though. The follow-up was much more even.
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if sc2 is a drug it is a strange one. I cant force myself to play ladder because it is so stressful. Instead I prefer to just watch pros just like i do watch films or sports for entertainment.
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EPT
