CNN article on SC2 and gaming addiction in Korea

The match didn't last long. After setting up a base in the northeast corner of the map, MarineKing sent foot soldiers to root out his opponent's headquarters -- a glowing blue pyramid spitting out blue termites -- and blew the whole thing up before the 10-minute mark. His coach nodded approvingly and walked away. MarineKing paid no attention to the press photographers leaning over a rail to snap pictures.

He was busy surfing the Internet, looking at pictures of pigtail-wearing Korean pop stars. Then he quickly moved on to another round of "StarCraft" -- not because of the competition, really.

He just wanted -- or needed -- to keep playing.

On August 05 2012 14:18 Zzoram wrote:
Where are the articles about American Football addiction and how 4 players die each year from football on average, never mind the thousands of concussions that can lead to permanent brain damage?

On August 05 2012 14:19 justinpal wrote:
I don't think the author understands gaming culture very well.

On August 05 2012 14:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:

Or he's just dumbing it down for his audience like any intelligent writer who knows what the hell they're doing would? Yeah, he sent marines with 1/1 upgrades for a timing attack and marine split his marines on creep sounds really good to an audience.

On August 05 2012 14:21 Wegandi wrote:


It's only an addiction when they disagree with your personal behavior. If you play a physical sport like say, football, or baseball for 5+ hours everyday, you're lauded. If you study math or science for 10+ hours a day, you're lauded. God forbid, you were a unique individual with their own likes and desires instead of some tabula rasa for them to mold to their own ends. Never ceases, does it?

On August 05 2012 14:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:

Or he's just dumbing it down for his audience like any intelligent writer who knows what the hell they're doing would? Yeah, he sent marines with 1/1 upgrades for a timing attack and marine split his marines on creep sounds really good to an audience.

On August 05 2012 14:22 Itsmedudeman wrote:

Or he's just dumbing it down for his audience like any intelligent writer who knows what the hell they're doing would? Yeah, he sent marines with 1/1 upgrades for a timing attack and marine split his marines on creep sounds really good to an audience.

On August 05 2012 14:25 justinpal wrote:


I was more referring to the article and the second part of the quote, I guess my comment wasn't clear. But, the part where they obsess over the fact that he types go or 1a2a3a4a as an indication of his addiction. I'm pretty certain there are a large number of players that do just that.

On August 05 2012 14:25 Itsmedudeman wrote:

? Dumb comparison. Most people can't play physical sports as long for as long as someone can play a video game (and addicts can play all day), and someone who studies actually benefits from it? Wtf? Are we really comparing the productivity of studying math and science to that of playing a video game here? Let me know how that looks on a college application. TL is really out of touch it seems these days..

On August 05 2012 14:28 Wegandi wrote:


If anyone has ever taken a semi-competent journalism class, they would have never written such a piss poor article. He missed more than 50% of Aristotle's appeals. Instead of saying spitting out blue termites, he could have said, producing workers called probes. Everyone knows what a worker does, and in the process you've fulfilled mythos or knowledge and provided your reader with something new and pertinent.

On August 05 2012 14:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:

No, that's clearly not what the writer meant at all. "much like a pianist would when warming up." is the phrase they used. If anything they're highlighting MKP's career and achievements as something good and productive.

On August 05 2012 14:33 PlosionCornu wrote:
Sc2 is one of the less addictive games around in my opinion...

On August 05 2012 14:35 justinpal wrote:


Ah, I cbf to read the entire thing. I read it as he was so addicted that he needed his fix and was anxious to get started. I see that part you mentioned, and I disagree that they were highlighting anything. Rather the author acknowledges this is an anxious warm-up. The way it's written is meant for you to think: "Wow, he really wants to play." He stated the number of times he typed go.

I know nothing about MKP and his family so it can all be true. But, I have my doubts.

On August 05 2012 14:33 PlosionCornu wrote:
Sc2 is one of the less addictive games around in my opinion...

On August 05 2012 14:40 Vindicare605 wrote:


This was pretty much my argument when I first began discussing e-sports with my folks.

Once upon a time, Rock music wasn't real music, shooting hoops outside, spending a lot of time drawing, collecting comic books, writing blogs, skateboarding, etc.: was a waste of time, the examples are endless of people doing what they love despite disdain from others that don't understand them and creating brand new industries and art forms that hadn't existed before and now those people are heroes.

Gaming is no different. There's a rich vibrant e-sports culture that's global now that supports itself and the level of passion and excitement I've witnessed at live events are enough to change anyone's mind.

The fact we're STILL at the point in society where we're willing to criticize what other people devote their time and energy to is just depressing to me. You'd think we'd have moved past it by now.

At the end of the day though, I don't care if it takes CNN a long time to figure it out. I already know there's something real, worth supporting in e-sports already and if it takes a long time for the old people to figure it out to then so be it.

On August 05 2012 14:49 Wegandi wrote:


It's just funny that separated by thousands of miles, me and MKP had the exact same childhood experience. My parents also disapproved of me playing Red Alert so much, and I used to get up in the middle of the night (almost every night), and tip toe to the computer fire up the dial-up and play Red Alert until school. :p

Some of the best times of my life. I actually won a crappy camera/web cam thing way back in the mid 90s from Westwood Studios for being on the top of their ladder. (Most of the top players never played on the ladder and we used to just troll it from time to time...like seriously the top 25...so bad. No one used Q, etc. :p)

Now, if I only I could muster the same passion for SC2....

The good thing though, is that you can take your experiences and learn from them so you don't do the same things to your children. I fully intend to support what makes my future children happy.

He quietly unpacked his keyboard at another station and, like a swimmer cooling down in a lap pool -- or an addict looking for one more fix -- started playing the game all over again.

On August 05 2012 15:15 n3ac3y wrote:


Did you ever play on that westwood beta server where you could link up to I believe it was 8 players? I remember playing this map XGems and that being my first real taste of competitive RTS. All of those player's gameplays were so refined, and for being like the age of 12 or whatever I was extremely overwhelmed but eventually started doing really well :D

Just before the 19-minute mark, Kas ambushed MarineKing on his side of the city. A flurry of insect-like alien creatures swarmed his human base and started pecking away at it.

On August 05 2012 15:46 cpc wrote:
Possibly not as bad as I expected but I don't think much of it particularly when some of it is plain wrong.



Last time I checked Kas wasn't a zerg player.

On August 05 2012 15:49 schmitty9800 wrote:

The reporter probably just doesn't know what the units are. Instead of flaming him on a public forum, you could outreach, email the dude, and educate. Which do you think is going to make gaming more well regarded overall?

And I'm more speaking towards others who have flamed worse. He was probably using a marauder drop, they look pretty damn alien.

On August 05 2012 16:02 ReturnStroke wrote:
The best quote in my opinion: "But there's one difference, he said. Pro gamers usually aren't addicts.
Addicts can't succeed on a higher competitive level, he said. The game takes complete control."

On August 05 2012 14:27 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
Possibly the worst thing I've ever read, it felt like the writer was on another fucking planet, I'm going to go write a piece for CNN about athletic addition because apparently striving to improve on a difficult task can equate to playing MAPLE STORY? WHAT THE FUCK. Wait wait wait, I'd fall into the same trap of not knowing a single fucking thing about it.

There needs to really be a restructuring globally on what "news" should or should not be created, because this shit is made for the 40 year old house mom with no clue about the topic at hand, it's one thing to make a completely bias subjective article, its another to do so while not knowing anything in the process.

"facepalm"




"dumbing it down" is one thing, sensationalizing the dumbing process to try and force your reader to only agree with you is another, hell the article starts with "play until they die" ... I could start throwing statistics around about which "sport" has the highest death rates per year of minor players/gamers... I can promise you that video games would be at the rock bottom, seeing as what? 5-10 people have died from "gaming" to much...

ridiculous article, should have been presented by FOX

On August 05 2012 16:07 Shebuha wrote:

Jesus, it makes it sound like they're... what's the phrase.. the article said it.. "Junkes looking for a fix." lol

On August 05 2012 16:08 Mysticesper wrote:

I'm always amused when people complain about Fox, when CNN, NBC, MSNBC, etc are just as bad.

On August 05 2012 16:17 Wegandi wrote:


CNN is one of the worst at peddling lies for more wars. I can't count the number it's been so many from photoshopping pictures, to outright making sets, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWY14eyMFg&feature=related

Oy-vei.

On August 05 2012 16:24 Probe1 wrote:
Not singling out anyone in particular, but the over reaction hate towards CNN for a article that doesn't capture eSports 100% perfectly in your own eyes? That's just about as bad as what you think they're doing by comparing Maple Story and SC.

On August 05 2012 14:35 justinpal wrote:


Ah, I cbf to read the entire thing. I read it as he was so addicted that he needed his fix and was anxious to get started. I see that part you mentioned, and I disagree that they were highlighting anything. Rather the author acknowledges this is an anxious warm-up. The way it's written is meant for you to think: "Wow, he really wants to play." He stated the number of times he typed go.

I know nothing about MKP and his family so it can all be true. But, I have my doubts.

On August 05 2012 16:37 Talin wrote:
The article wasn't that bad at all honestly.

You can't reasonably expect everyone to look at games as a super-exciting next generation athletic discipline and the best thing since sliced bread as the various esports-based media try to present it (which they have to do in order to actually sell it).

From an outsider perspective, this is a fairly reasonable way of looking at the phenomenon.

On August 05 2012 16:46 Imagine42 wrote:

No it's not...

As long as articles like this keep on portraying gaming as nothing but just another form of shooting up heroin, gaming won't ever be accepted as something good.

Just before the 19-minute mark, Kas ambushed MarineKing on his side of the city. A flurry of insect-like alien creatures swarmed his human base and started pecking away at it.

MarineKing couldn't recover. His base exploded.

On August 05 2012 16:46 Imagine42 wrote:

No it's not...

As long as articles like this keep on portraying gaming as nothing but just another form of shooting up heroin, gaming won't ever be accepted as something good.

On August 05 2012 17:50 IshinShishi wrote:

1-Just because the human body has physical limitations it doesn't impede people from spending their off time thinking about their sport or essentially dedicating every waking hour to things that are related to it.
2-Actually, I have an example of "addiction" to studying right here in my home, my father hasn't worked or put even a dime inside the house for roughly 15+ years and kept studying math and a lot of other stuff for long periods, every single day, without ever trying to apply it to anything useful whatsoever, anything and everything can be an addiction.Bad arguments debunked, send in the next ones.

2-Actually, I have an example of "addiction" to studying right here in my home, my father hasn't worked or put even a dime inside the house for roughly 15+ years and kept studying math and a lot of other stuff for long periods, every single day, without ever trying to apply it to anything useful whatsoever, anything and everything can be an addiction.Bad arguments debunked, send in the next ones.

On August 05 2012 18:11 lem0ncake wrote:
Fucking mainstream news always sensationalising things just for page hits and more ad revenue. Makes me sick. CNN are as bad as FOX News now.

Many of the high-profile matches at the World Cyber Games are played on stage in front of a live audience. Players sit in soundproof cubes so they don't hear the game's three Korean announcers, who sit at a cafeteria table yelling about whose army is advancing and who is about to get ambushed. The announcers wear white lab coats and glasses, giving them the air of scientists. One is a dead ringer for Dr. Bunsen, Beaker's sidekick on "The Muppet Show."

The match didn't last long. After setting up a base in the northeast corner of the map, MarineKing sent foot soldiers to root out his opponent's headquarters -- a glowing blue pyramid spitting out blue termites -- and blew the whole thing up before the 10-minute mark. His coach nodded approvingly and walked away. MarineKing paid no attention to the press photographers leaning over a rail to snap pictures.

He would face a relatively unknown Ukrainian player named Kas.

Just before the 19-minute mark, Kas ambushed MarineKing on his side of the city. A flurry of insect-like alien creatures swarmed his human base and started pecking away at it.

On August 05 2012 14:14 Kontys wrote:
Skill or Addiction?

..


Fucking haters.

EDIT: Oh, ok. Just my initial reaction to the title.

This is apparently about gaming addiction. I think they kind of misunderstood what Tasteless was saying about competitivity. Boss part Mr Tasteless, you are handsome.

EDIT2: Oh there was a text part. Well, fuck you CNN. Not cool.

EDIT3: CNN IS RUINING ESPORTS. Fact, but this does not need to go viral.

"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

On August 05 2012 18:28 Rabiator wrote:

Oh c'mon and think. Do you really think that eSports is as valid as "real sports"? Sure it is entertaining to watch pro players play their games and to play yourself, BUT did you think about the consequences of eSports for their participants? Take any korean kid from the B-team (and there should be a lot of them) and now tell me which useful things playing Starcraft has taught them for their future life? Which skill did they gain? I cant really see anything, because clicking fast isnt something terribly useful. So (in Starcraft terms):

What do you transition into after spending 4-5 years semi-not-so-successful with playing a computer game?

Thats the whole problem of eSports. The top pros will have made enough money and fame to support them and give them viable alternatives within the industry, but the spots there are VERY LIMITED and are occupied for much longer than a pro gamer career. There is no semi-usefulness for those not-top-players in other professions as there is in real sports. I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big.

The years of 16-24 are very important for a human, because that is the time when you are able to learn new things easy. After that it will become harder and "wasting it" on a "trivial game" (which wont help you in your later 40-60 years) isnt a wise thing to do.

----

Computer games - as a whole - are entertaining to play, but as always there is a limit to when it becomes a bad thing. There was a guy 500 years ago who nailed that perfectly:

Paracelsus (born Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, 11 November or 17 December 1493 – 24 September 1541)

This is one of the major pieces of wisdom which a human has ever come up with and it applies to EVERYTHING IN LIFE. So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly.

On August 05 2012 18:29 branflakes14 wrote:
Necessity breeds addiction. If kids had something else worthwhile to do they wouldn't be playing video games for 40 hours straight.

On August 05 2012 18:40 Rokoz wrote:


After 4-5 years you can become caster, there are many opportunities in gaming industry, you see it's pretty large. There is more than playing as pro in the gaming industry. Did you even watch the videos on the article?

It makes your "I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big. " statement ridiculous.

Did you see that MVP coach was ex-progamer?

Also don't use arguments like "So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly." you make yourself look like a fool.

On August 05 2012 18:41 Rabiator wrote:

Do you really think that there are spots as a caster for people from the B-team? Really? Enough to sustain someone? Be reasonable. There wont be enough spots for the guys from the A-team ... and there are more B-teamers than them.

Thats stupid. Necessity isnt needed to breed an addiction and for computer games it is the EASY WAY to spend some enjoyable time, because you dont have to move a bit. You dont even have to make a phone call to organize an evening with your friends, you just turn on the computer and log in and whoever is there is there and who isnt isnt. You can play with anyone from anywhere and the world is big enough so that there will always be someone to play with.

On August 05 2012 18:46 Andr3 wrote:

The reason it's problematic to transition from gaming whole day to a good job is because "esports" is a new thing, not because the essence of it is flawed.

Strip every world-wide obsession with sports, remove all the money dealings and the communities and you get the same thing.

Being a progamer is from a materialistical view point a bad idea in the current age, but I don't think it's a good idea spitting on it from all angles just because it is so. With time maybe "esports" can grow to such a length as normal sports and there will be more opportunities for B-teamers and the like.

On August 05 2012 18:51 Kyrillion wrote:


While your message is spot-on on the social aspect of gaming, and I think we can all agree about that, you speak as if it were the only aspect of it. Do you really believe people enjoy video games only because of the particular form of people-to-people interaction ?

On August 05 2012 18:31 Kyuki wrote:
That's not the problem... You say it very well, but ignore the fact that pretty much all other sports or things in life where achievement require a ton of practice/workout is most often praised and put out to be something positive, whereas within gaming you still have this stereotypical view on how this poison is somehow "even more of a poison".

Fuck that shit.

Also there is much to be learned from playing games in general, both motorically, mentally, logically and from a pure knowledge perspective.

On August 05 2012 18:51 Kyrillion wrote:


While your message is spot-on on the social aspect of gaming, and I think we can all agree about that, you speak as if it were the only aspect of it. Do you really believe people enjoy video games only because of the particular form of people-to-people interaction ?

On August 05 2012 18:28 Rabiator wrote:

Oh c'mon and think. Do you really think that eSports is as valid as "real sports"? Sure it is entertaining to watch pro players play their games and to play yourself, BUT did you think about the consequences of eSports for their participants? Take any korean kid from the B-team (and there should be a lot of them) and now tell me which useful things playing Starcraft has taught them for their future life? Which skill did they gain? I cant really see anything, because clicking fast isnt something terribly useful. So (in Starcraft terms):

What do you transition into after spending 4-5 years semi-not-so-successful with playing a computer game?

Thats the whole problem of eSports. The top pros will have made enough money and fame to support them and give them viable alternatives within the industry, but the spots there are VERY LIMITED and are occupied for much longer than a pro gamer career. There is no semi-usefulness for those not-top-players in other professions as there is in real sports. I know a guy who played football in 4th league (and he wasnt really an amateur during the time) and he is now a teacher with sports as one of his classes. ESports has no such transition and thus it is good if it doesnt grow too big.

The years of 16-24 are very important for a human, because that is the time when you are able to learn new things easy. After that it will become harder and "wasting it" on a "trivial game" (which wont help you in your later 40-60 years) isnt a wise thing to do.

----

Computer games - as a whole - are entertaining to play, but as always there is a limit to when it becomes a bad thing. There was a guy 500 years ago who nailed that perfectly:

Paracelsus (born Philippus Aureolus Theophrastus Bombastus von Hohenheim, 11 November or 17 December 1493 – 24 September 1541)

This is one of the major pieces of wisdom which a human has ever come up with and it applies to EVERYTHING IN LIFE. So dont be a spoiled four year old who starts to cry when mommy calls him home from the sandbox and think about eSports rationally and calmly.

On August 05 2012 19:00 Rabiator wrote:

"Its a new thing" is a terrible excuse.

NEW =/= GOOD
NEW =/= USEFULL
NEW =/= BETTER THAN THE OLD
It only MIGHT BE any of the above, but it has to PROVE IT first!

Thats one wisdom from me ... and thus I ask you to prove that it is worth it to grow as big as regular sports, which I doubt due to several reasons:

a) Look at the ton of injuries which plague all those who started playing early. Almost everyone has carpal tunnel syndrome, because what does a kid of 12 do when an adult tells him to "sit straight ..."? Exactly the opposite. It isnt "fun" to have your wrists hurt sometimes for the rest of your life and thus it is a terrible idea. I know mine hurt really bad sometimes and I cant work at my job as a layouter every once in a while.

For real sports you will usually have a trainer who can help to prevent injuries and in any case the usual injuries are "macro injuries" which are treated much easier than any chronic injuries in your arms.

b) The financial bad situation for progamers you mentioned yourself already.

c) Kids need to develop their SOCIAL SKILLS by meeting real people during puberty and that excludes playing games the whole time because of the unused senses as I explained above.

On August 05 2012 19:51 LennoxPM wrote:
"Just before the 19-minute mark, Kas ambushed MarineKing on his side of the city. A flurry of insect-like alien creatures swarmed his human base and started pecking away at it." - they really got their facts straight.

On August 05 2012 20:08 Spidinko wrote:

That's a pivotal part of the report, of course.

On August 05 2012 20:16 lem0ncake wrote:

If someone writes an article on whatever subject, it's not unreasonable to expect the author to carry out some proper research and have an understanding of the topic.

Or at least watch the game and realize, that the players both have the same faction.

On August 05 2012 14:18 Zzoram wrote:
Where are the articles about American Football addiction and how 4 players die each year from football on average, never mind the thousands of concussions that can lead to permanent brain damage?

MarineKing's competitor was DarKFoRce, from Germany, whose oily hair and sleep-deprived face made him look like the American stereotype of an obsessed video game player.

On August 05 2012 14:17 imMUTAble787 wrote:
They lost me when they were comparing MKP to people addicted to Maple Story.

Lol wtf?

Not like I was expecting anything from any sort of major media outlet to begin with, though.

On August 05 2012 22:22 Mandalor wrote:


This gave me a good laugh.

Other than that: Standard tabloid journalism. I'm surprised this offends so many of you. I think I've read like 10 articles similar to this.

On August 05 2012 22:43 GeorgeForeman wrote:
What a hit piece. It's like some editor said, "People in China and Korea sometimes die because they play video games too much, and someone just told me there are people there who play games professionally. Hey, you! Find the connection and write about it! Also, use "quotation marks" inappropriately throughout your article!"

Addiction to games is a serious topic, but it's not taken seriously here. The author implies that MKP thinks he's some military commander when he's playing, which is absurd. Pro players are not addicts. The exact same piece could've been written about any professional or olympic athlete training to be the best.

Fuck, how are video game pros more ridiculous than Trampoline Olympians?!?

On August 05 2012 14:25 justinpal wrote:


I was more referring to the article and the second part of the quote, I guess my comment wasn't clear. But, the part where they obsess over the fact that he types go or 1a2a3a4a as an indication of his addiction. I'm pretty certain there are a large number of players that do just that.

On August 05 2012 14:35 justinpal wrote:


Ah, I cbf to read the entire thing. I read it as he was so addicted that he needed his fix and was anxious to get started. I see that part you mentioned, and I disagree that they were highlighting anything. Rather the author acknowledges this is an anxious warm-up. The way it's written is meant for you to think: "Wow, he really wants to play." He stated the number of times he typed go.

I know nothing about MKP and his family so it can all be true. But, I have my doubts.

The match didn't last long. After setting up a base in the northeast corner of the map, MarineKing sent foot soldiers to root out his opponent's headquarters -- a glowing blue pyramid spitting out blue termites -- and blew the whole thing up before the 10-minute mark. His coach nodded approvingly and walked away. MarineKing paid no attention to the press photographers leaning over a rail to snap pictures.

He was busy surfing the Internet, looking at pictures of pigtail-wearing Korean pop stars. Then he quickly moved on to another round of "StarCraft" -- not because of the competition, really.

He just wanted -- or needed -- to keep playing.

On August 05 2012 23:47 alexanderzero wrote:


This is one of the most patronizing things I have ever read. How often do professional athletes give the press attention as they're relaxing after a high profile match? If a football player sits on a bench and drinks some Gatorade, and doesn't pay attention to the photographers around him, does that make him addicted to football? From the sound of things MarineKing was busy playing in the middle of a fucking tournament. Of course he started another game....

The way the game is described lends absolutely no credence to the fact that it is a strategy game. He managed to "blow the whole thing up before the 10-minute mark"? Seriously? A game of Starcraft is a little more fucking complicated than blowing the whole thing up as fast as you can. CNN should be ashamed of itself and this "journalist" deserves to lose their job.

On August 05 2012 23:47 alexanderzero wrote:


This is one of the most patronizing things I have ever read. How often do professional athletes give the press attention as they're relaxing after a high profile match? If a football player sits on a bench and drinks some Gatorade, and doesn't pay attention to the photographers around him, does that make him addicted to football? From the sound of things MarineKing was busy playing in the middle of a fucking tournament. Of course he started another game....

The way the game is described lends absolutely no credence to the fact that it is a strategy game. He managed to "blow the whole thing up before the 10-minute mark"? Seriously? A game of Starcraft is a little more fucking complicated than blowing the whole thing up as fast as you can. CNN should be ashamed of itself and this "journalist" deserves to lose their job.

On August 05 2012 23:09 cristo1122 wrote:
btw there is no such thing as adiction more correctly it is dependance as the individual depends on (X) to replace something that is missing in their life



ya spamming gogo and such is pretty standard for koreans (see in bw all the time) i would say mainly as they want to start rather than sitting in a booth twidling thier thumbs

On August 05 2012 22:22 Mandalor wrote:


This gave me a good laugh.

Other than that: Standard tabloid journalism. I'm surprised this offends so many of you. I think I've read like 10 articles similar to this.

On August 05 2012 21:59 SpiZe wrote:

Where are the articles about American Football addiction and how 4 players die each year from football on average, never mind the thousands of concussions that can lead to permanent brain damage?

On August 05 2012 23:06 Sooooil wrote:
Wait what. MKP earns 105k $ a year? I didn't think Prime could afford such a salary.

Just before the 19-minute mark, Kas ambushed MarineKing on his side of the city. A flurry of insect-like alien creatures swarmed his human base and started pecking away at it.

On August 06 2012 01:00 TGalore wrote:
At the risk of getting crucified here, I'll offer a somewhat different opinion on the article.

Honestly, I didn't think it was all that bad, everything considered. It's easy for us as people familiar with the game to get upset about a journalist not being familiar with the build orders or names of units and then use that to discredit everything in it altogether.

Ignorance about tournaments or unit names aside, the story of MKP's childhood was pretty harrowing. It's impossible for virtually all of us (assuming very few of us on here are parents) to imagine struggling with our own child to that level and fearing for their life. We also can't brush away the fact that for every MKP, there are so many more who don't make it and throw away their chance at education or a normal life to go after an impossible dream because they truly are addicted. And yes, some video games are addictive.

True, there are people addicted to exercise (I knew one such person) or sports or a million other things, and we could do a better job of addressing those cases too. You see it all the time with athletes who get into trouble when they have to retire. But that doesn't erase the fact that there are some problems with addiction to SC2 and other games out there as well.

On August 05 2012 14:25 Itsmedudeman wrote:

? Dumb comparison. Most people can't play physical sports as long for as long as someone can play a video game (and addicts can play all day), and someone who studies actually benefits from it? Wtf? Are we really comparing the productivity of studying math and science to that of playing a video game here? Let me know how that looks on a college application. TL is really out of touch it seems these days..

On August 06 2012 01:27 jeeeeohn wrote:


Thank you for writing this because if I had I'd probably have gotten a warning or temp ban. TL is insane nowadays, which is really just representative of the culture in general wherein wasting time has somehow evolved into productivity.

Newsflash: headline: every pro player is addicted to the game and video games are not art and video games are not productive, at all, ever, not now or in the future. You are not a special snowflake for grinding Starcraft 2 into the soft bits of your brain twelve hours a day. Go read a book or something.

On August 06 2012 01:30 julianto wrote:
They got what they wanted: a lot of article views from a large demographic on the internet. They did this by putting up an article that would surely stir up that community.

On August 06 2012 01:33 Dundron2000 wrote:


CNN couldn't give 2 shits about young males 10-25, its not their target audience.

On August 06 2012 01:27 jeeeeohn wrote:


Thank you for writing this because if I had I'd probably have gotten a warning or temp ban. TL is insane nowadays, which is really just representative of the culture in general wherein wasting time has somehow evolved into productivity.

Newsflash: headline: every pro player is addicted to the game and video games are not art and video games are not productive, at all, ever, not now or in the future. You are not a special snowflake for grinding Starcraft 2 into the soft bits of your brain twelve hours a day. Go read a book or something.

On August 05 2012 20:48 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Starcraft 2 as a competitive sport is comparable to real sports such as basketball,foot ball,soccer, etc.

On August 06 2012 01:38 Rah wrote:


It's truth that there's no difference between grinding SC2 12 hrs a day and any other game or MMO out there. There's a pro scene but that's a huge amount of time wasted for someone who never ends up being a pro. On the other hand pro SC2 does have a place in the world and the top few players will always be revered by some. For people who don't care about the game though they're more likely to form an opinion similar to CNN. I believe gaming is a bad habit more than it is an addiction. If you could go pro at biting your nails all day it would be comparable.

On August 06 2012 01:34 DiuLaSing wrote:


but those 10-25 young males will grow up...oh shit

On August 06 2012 01:29 Shiori wrote:

Aw, cute.

Prove your shit.

1) What is art?
2) What is "productive"?
3) Do you know every pro player?
4) How do you define addiction?
5) How is making money playing video games wasteful?

On August 06 2012 01:42 Dundron2000 wrote:


I don't think you don't run a multi-million corporation on the premise that you are building a viewership that will be valuable in a decades time if you already have a core demographic with pressure to perform well within a short- and medium term time span.

On August 06 2012 01:47 DiuLaSing wrote:


True. But that mulit million corporation probably don't really care about the whole e-sport community. The video wasn't try to target this community anyways, it was targeted at parent, probably middle class parents, who kids are "addicted" to internet and gaming.

On August 06 2012 01:46 jeeeeohn wrote:


1. A media through which the artist has a conversation with the recipient of the art. Usually these conversations cannot be had unless framed by a narrative or portrait or what have you. Video games are made by hundreds of people to be played with, by, and against millions of other people. Art exists in video games--music, models, etc.--but the product itself is not art, and can never be art, just by its very lack of deep, penetrating artistic vision. (Obviously I'm talking about AAA blockbusters. The indie scene might be different.)

2. Productive is advancing yourself in someway, I.E.: learning, creating, reading, writing, pretty much anything that doesn't involve wasting time, which may I remind you is the exact opposite of productivity. Playing a video game obsessively is, in general, not productive, for obvious reasons, chief among them because it's a video game created not to teach or advance an artistic principle but to entertain and waste time. Now, if you're truly devoted to becoming a professional Starcraft player, then fine, great, play it every day all day. However, if you're like 90% of the "I'm going pro" blogs on Team Liquid, then you're probably just wasting time.

3. Common attributes of professional sports players: love of the game, good work ethic, obsession. See: Kobe Bryant, Bobby Fischer, Roger Federer, MKP, Boxer. Even if I don't know every player, I can make an educated guess.

4. Addiction is obsession. I know something about it because my personality is addictive. I obsess over things. I was addicted to WoW, addicted to Starcraft, and I'm perpetually addicted to people. When I work on an artistic hobby I get obsessed. It's thinking about the same thing for days and days.

5. The people who are truly dedicated, the professionals making money, and those who are actually, fully, no-bullshit committed to the game are fine. I speak for myself, and people like me, who've obsessed over this damn game to avoid doing work or anything productive--not to advance ourselves in the game, mind you, but just to waste time--those are the people who shouldn't play video games, and to which the activity is harmful and detrimental.

On August 06 2012 01:44 Klipsys wrote:
ANYONE UNHAPPY WITH THE ARTICLE AND TWEET/EMAIL THE AUTHOR DIRECTLY.

I won't post his email address, but his twitter is https://twitter.com/jdsutter and he has his email in one of his tweets. \

PLEASE DON'T EMBARRASS ESPORTS

On August 06 2012 01:34 DiuLaSing wrote:


but those 10-25 young males will grow up...oh shit

On August 06 2012 01:56 IRL_Sinister wrote:


You think a whole bunch of nerds tweeting the guy is going to make your case any better?

MarineKing's dad now calls his son by his screen name, even in private conversation.

On August 06 2012 02:05 kaokentake wrote:
the funny thing about this article is it was written for us, no one will read it but us. it was designed to be read by us


so its funny lol.... i guess.. people commentating on it being bad or whatever... at least no one will read it other than us lol and we already know most of it is just stupid standard strawman reporting

On August 06 2012 01:41 Shiori wrote:

If anything, this shows you've been infected by some sort of pragmatism rather than that videogaming is 'bad.' I always laugh when people criticize gaming on the grounds of 'productivity' while failing to consider that productivity for productivity's sake is completely arbitrary, and is only something that people have argued for in the post-narrative era we live in. Seriously, productivity is probably the god of this generation (i.e. last 20 years). It's sad, and it's arbitrary, and I wish people would shut up about it.

On August 06 2012 01:56 IRL_Sinister wrote:


You think a whole bunch of nerds tweeting the guy is going to make your case any better?

On August 06 2012 01:55 Shiori wrote:

What? This makes literally no sense. Your second sentence is just asserting that anything other than a narrative/portrait (????) can't be art. Literally nothing you have said here disqualifies video games from having meaningful narratives or stylistic art. What you've essentially said is akin to saying that sentences are artful but novels are not.


This is moronic as well. I feel like you have a very immature understanding of what artists are. Whether something is a "waste of time" is not exactly something that can be objectively determined for all people. If I were to spend my entire life learning how to paint frescos, I would consider that a waste of time, because I don't like painting, nor am I talented at it. Similarly, I have absolutely no interest in geology, and becoming a renowned geologist would be an utter waste of time from my perspective. But going back to your first sentence, video games satisfy your measure, because they do advance the player in someway, namely, in skill at the game.


And you think obsession and addiction are the same thing?


Oh, I guess you do. They aren't. I'm sorry that you think they are, but they aren't, and I'm telling you this as someone who has suffered from addiction as well as OCD. The psychological meaning of addiction is entirely different from intense interest or obsession with a subject. The two might be related, but they're not the same. Obsession can often be positive, whereas addiction occurs when the addictive subject controls the agent; obsession is just really intense interest. Addiction, on the other hand, is not. Gambling addiction, for example, is something which takes over a person's life. They may appear obsessed with gambling, but only because they are addicted to it. Similarly, someone who is obsessed with, say, literature, is probably not addicted to it, because literature does not control their psyche in a direct sense.


Then that has nothing to do with video games. That has to do with escapism, of which video games are simply the most modern means. Escapism is, firstly, not the same thing as addiction, although it can lead to addiction. And escapism generally has less to do with the subject of escape and more to do with dissatisfaction with the rest of life. Rather than blaming Starcraft, or video games, or whatever, for "wasting time," consider that the true culprit is probably that you actually don't really care about whatever work you're avoiding doing.

On August 06 2012 02:11 Rah wrote:


I'm just being real here and looking at things without Hotbid's E-Sports glasses over my eyes. Getting so mad about my opinion shows your own bias. The truth is there's a small amount of success going around compared to the time people have invested into this game. Many on this site have given up even and don't even play the game anymore, they just watch events to feel like they're part of a grassroots movement or something. To outsiders it comes across as weird to invest your life and passion into a game that they don't understand. Especially when popular opinion suggests our exposure to them should be limited. So there's nothing surprising about this article to me, but I'm surprised about some of our reactions to it.

I agree with you that you shouldn't fill your life with only productive activities, because then you'd miss out on a lot, but be a little open minded and don't take your hobbies so seriously. You're guilty of the same thing CNN is.

On August 06 2012 02:12 Thallis wrote:


Especially when the article is pretty clearly presenting the case that Professional gaming is not addiction. Its kind of funny that so many people don't understand this is a positive article because it talks about addiction. The people the article is supposed to be for would have a hard time distinguishing between the two. The article pretty clearly show why Esport isn't addiction, while not just brushing away a very real issue. There's no reason for anyone to be upset about this article.

On August 06 2012 02:17 jeeeeohn wrote:


You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to sit here and argue over semantics. Novels have one unifying artistic vision; video games are a hodgepodge of collective work to the expressed motive of creating a piece of entertainment, not something intellectually or spiritually or emotionally engaging. If you're trying to tell me that Starcraft has much of a moral or point as, say, 1984 or Things Fall Apart or Gravity's Rainbow or Infinite Jest or Neuromancer or Through a Scanner Darkly or literally any great work of fiction, I have to respectfully disagree. And before you bring up the fact that great fiction is entertaining, I concede that yes they are, of course they are, and why wouldn't they be? But they also contain something that video games lack, which is a point (and the point of this discussion, as it happens), the point being the author's perspective and ideas, singular, unifying, that construct his worldview and narrative. When I say author, narrative, I think you can think of the analogous terms for other forms of art (painting, music, etc.) on your own and go from there.

Addiction can both be psychological and chemical.

By the way, I despise the line by line forum argument. It's really everything that's wrong with internet anonymity in a nutshell. I can read how it's going to go from the outset. This is the part where I chastise you for calling me moronic and whatever. Then you're going to call me insensitive. Then I'm supposed to get riled up. Anyways, we have different opinions, and for once, just for once, you can let that go.

On August 06 2012 02:17 CoR wrote:
oh and dont forget all the olympic sport addicted players ... now there is a drug thing in london for all this addicted poor guys ... what a waste of lifetime this read was ...

On August 06 2012 02:20 Shiori wrote:

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm angry.

Popular opinion, is, quite frankly, fucking moronic on virtually every subject. I think popular opinion is a pretty good yardstick for measuring what not to do, to be honest.

I take my hobbies seriously because I take my life seriously. I wouldn't do something I don't think is worth doing, or at the very least I certainly wouldn't defend doing it. I think people who go out clubbing, for example, are wasting their time, but I can't think of a strong argument that could be used to convince them not to go, so I don't try to convince them. I just don't think it's for me. On the other hand, I really like competitive gaming. Be it chess, poker, or Starcraft 2, I enjoy it, and I do it, and I like watching other people do it. Who are you to decide that that's a poor way of living my life? Is there some objective standard for living that you've managed to find?