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Active: 645 users

The State of ZvZ: IdrA’s Thoughts on the Metagame - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 Next All
An2quamaraN
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland379 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-03 21:25:06
July 03 2012 21:24 GMT
#41
Please...why we need to hear the opinion of Idra...? I may listen to someone who is good at Starcraft or at least does well currently, not someone who has 33% W/L ratio in 2012...Code S zergs for example.

From what i see, people that utilize things like nydus worms, focus on upgrades and has good usage of infestors, don't seem to have problems with ZvZ. I would take Symbol as an example.
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
July 03 2012 21:25 GMT
#42
I truly enjoy watching ZvZ. Its come a long way.
AgentChaos
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom4569 Posts
July 03 2012 21:29 GMT
#43
at least its better than pvp
IM & EG supporter
Fortii
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany760 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-03 21:31:10
July 03 2012 21:29 GMT
#44
sad to watch that everything idra says evolves into a discussion about idra and all the haters feel the need to crawl out of theyr caves and post stupid stuff, instead of discussing the actual content.
this community makes me scratch my head alot.

personally, i enjoy watching zvz, if the players are good at it and show some nice multitastking. but i also agree with that "interview", tier3 is rare and a lot of stuff beside roaches seem weak.
IdrA!
procrastibation
Profile Joined July 2012
81 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-03 22:09:43
July 03 2012 21:32 GMT
#45
Not much to see here. Just a scripted interview made by EG's pr team to make as much money as possible. I doubt these are idra's genuine and original opinions. EG went through an entire process of PR and editing to create a perfect article with the sole purpose of getting as many views as possible so they make money. I mean why the hell would idra want to share his opinions, if not to make as much money as possible. We all know that Idra's true opinion would be more like "omg zvz total coinflip can't win even tho i'm more skilled blizzard are imbeciles," but this wouldn't be as popular as a totally scripted interview that has been designed to be as popular as possible to get the maximum amount of viewers possible. just the same old corporate scheming to find out ways to make as much possible money with no consideration for the consumer
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
July 03 2012 21:34 GMT
#46
idra is pretty much right though. If you watch a lot of zvz's, every single one is different. That's all he's saying and I have to agree based on the zvz's I've seen recently.

You've got the occasional lings/blings wars. The mass roach wars. The hydra is becoming a lot more popular all of the sudden. People are researching drops and doing massive drops with roaches. Surprise buttrape nydus is being used a lot. Muta's were really popular, then got raped by fungals, now people split their muta's and are raping infestors. Even ultra's and broodlords are seeing their uses. And there's no real indication of what can or will happen in a zvz. One moment you might have a ling/bling war and the next they're teching towards ultra's.
you basically can't do anything wrong in this match up concerning strategy.
how2TL
Profile Joined August 2010
1197 Posts
July 03 2012 21:38 GMT
#47
ZvZzzzzzz

At least Roach vs Roach, that is a damn snoozefest.
MCDayC
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom14464 Posts
July 03 2012 21:42 GMT
#48
ZvZ is awesome to watch right now, even if it is a bitch to play.
VERY FRAGILE, LIKE A BABY PANDA EGG
Goetzinho ftw
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany115 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-04 03:10:56
July 03 2012 21:43 GMT
#49
No one cares what a lower mediocre foreigners says about the matchup.

User was temp banned for this post and other crappy posts.
Diavlo
Profile Joined July 2011
Belgium2915 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-03 21:46:13
July 03 2012 21:43 GMT
#50
On July 04 2012 06:09 sekritzzz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2012 05:19 NEEDZMOAR wrote:
On July 04 2012 05:01 Ireniicus wrote:
Idra is not a good player to quote as he historically does not bring rational argument to anything strategic (anyone that claims "MKP is terrible" is clearly not a logical thinker). Z V Z is getting better and better. I think the recent patch changes have done wonders as I have seen alot of very good zvz's lately...not something I could have said 3 months ago.


except that about 8-10 months ago he predicted exactly what zvp would look like now. Right in the middle of all the haters and qqers.

What did he actually predict about the the state of ZvP?

8-10 months ago, the only thing I remember is him whining about Collusus death balls and jamming roach/hydra on them, and him discrediting good players because of their race (ex: Idra calling Morrow a Gold-level player if he didnt play the abusive race of terran.)

So really... I don't blame people if they dont take idra seriously when it comes to the state of a match up or balance issues.


You do realize that Morrow switched to zerg late 2010 right? 7 month ago IdrA was saying that Morrow had a very interesting ZvP style with lings and bling drops and was actually very good.

As for his view on ZvZ i don't really think there is anything groundbreaking, it's clear that every top player kinda do whatever... Symbol and DRG have good ZvZ records because they just have way better mechanics than most. Even Nestea who seemed to have all the openings and early roach timings down to the tee just looks like every other good zerg now (with actually less refined mechanics).

EDIT: wtf, i know the article is not the most fascinating but half of the posts are just retarded attacks on IdrA.


"I don't know how many years on this Earth I got left. I'm gonna get real weird with it."
Embir
Profile Joined January 2011
Poland567 Posts
July 03 2012 21:44 GMT
#51
On July 04 2012 06:29 Fortii wrote:
sad to watch that everything idra says evolves into a discussion about idra and all the haters feel the need to crawl out of theyr caves and post stupid stuff, instead of discussing the actual content.
this community makes me scratch my head alot.

personally, i enjoy watching zvz, if the players are good at it and show some nice multitastking. but i also agree with that "interview", tier3 is rare and a lot of stuff beside roaches seem weak.


Well it only backfires for IdrA for shit he spitted out during early days of SC2.
As long as he had results a lot of people take him as a jerk, but at least talented jerk. I guess for now we can remove talented part, at least in SC2 department...
FallDownMarigold
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3710 Posts
July 03 2012 21:46 GMT
#52
On July 04 2012 04:45 Paljas wrote:
nestea doesnt mind zvz.
and life neither


K. Cool comment. Did Idra say he minds it? He simply says it's got a lot of development and potential in store for the future. That being said, it follows that it's difficult for most if not all people to understand it fully.
FrogOfWar
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany1406 Posts
July 03 2012 21:47 GMT
#53
I don't mind ZvZ, as long as Bnet doesn't give me 10 in a row. There is quite a number of strategies you can do and games turn out very differently, a big improvement from Broodwar methinks. The queen buff has improved the matchup too, because if you're sick of baneling wars, you can get pretty ling/bling proof with queens and spines and simply avoid it.
AsymptoticClimax
Profile Joined May 2012
United Kingdom249 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-03 21:50:20
July 03 2012 21:49 GMT
#54
On July 04 2012 04:49 Existor wrote:
Roach to roach. It's so interesting. I have hope for Hots, where that Roach-festor combo will not be an ultimate combo in zvz


My predictions are Swarmhost/Hydra with speed upgrade maybe complimented by a few vipers to counter infestors if needed.


Also: I dont mind ZvZ since I win like 90% of them somehow.
i wish my motherboard would find a fatherboard so i could have anotherboard
dragoon
Profile Joined December 2010
United States695 Posts
July 03 2012 21:49 GMT
#55
On July 04 2012 04:59 zeratul_jf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2012 04:52 Sc2Null wrote:
On July 04 2012 04:51 zeratul_jf wrote:
While Nestea is extremely good at ZvZ, i dont think its fair to say that Idra adds nothing to the discussion. His best match up is ZvZ at least from my experience watching him play. It might be because of his better mechanics but i think ZvZ comes to a lot of scouting, and the way zerg produces units.


His worst mu is ZvZ..his best is ZvT..according to him anyway.

Also: its strange when scouting comes into play as both players usually know what each others are doing.



Yea according to him, but take into account that because they like to play a match up doesnt mean that they always do good in it. I mean stephano said his best was ZvT, but his ZvP had a better record. While this could be because he faces higher lvl players that play T rather than P, but its enough to proof my point that a players self proclaimed best match up isnt always their best per say.

While at the start is really easy to see what your opponent is doing because there is no denying overloads, mid and on is a different story. As more creep is around for your queens to deny vision, also mutas could come into play. But i meant scouting as in when is my opponent building and army, when is he droning. And because of the way zerg is one can go from hey im done droning to bam mass army in a few production cycles.

your best match up is, for the most part, the one you're most comfortable in. winrate doesn't always matter
i love you
Fencar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States2694 Posts
July 03 2012 21:52 GMT
#56
I love watching ZvZ, very hard to play though. I love how, like in TvT, every unit is viable to an extent, and there is so much room for micro and mind games.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
FuGGu
Profile Joined March 2012
United States176 Posts
July 03 2012 21:53 GMT
#57
I agree, I love watching ZvZ! Some matchups like TvT or PvZ can get super stale and predictable, but ZvZ always seems to be a crazy damn ride every game...it's a refreshing change to watch sometimes.
haffy
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom430 Posts
July 03 2012 21:54 GMT
#58
I'll take ZvZ over ZvP any day. Balance completely aside, ZvP is fucking boring.


Everything he says in the article seems really solid to me, especially the 15 pool/15 hatch opening over 14pool/14 gas. However I think he's kind of throwing hydras aside too quickly. I think ZvZ is the one match up where they're actually a stable strategy, unlike ZvP where at certain points in the match up they become almost useless. Also I think against the ling/infester/ultra style hydras become much better. Kind of hard to know though because of how often it happens.
Deleted User 26513
Profile Joined February 2007
2376 Posts
July 03 2012 21:56 GMT
#59
IDK about the least favorite match-up part... ZvZ is actually pretty fun to watch AND to play. I even find some zvz matches much more entertaining than the ZvP late game "vortex broodlord dance".
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 03 2012 22:00 GMT
#60
On July 04 2012 06:44 Embir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2012 06:29 Fortii wrote:
sad to watch that everything idra says evolves into a discussion about idra and all the haters feel the need to crawl out of theyr caves and post stupid stuff, instead of discussing the actual content.
this community makes me scratch my head alot.

personally, i enjoy watching zvz, if the players are good at it and show some nice multitastking. but i also agree with that "interview", tier3 is rare and a lot of stuff beside roaches seem weak.


Well it only backfires for IdrA for shit he spitted out during early days of SC2.
As long as he had results a lot of people take him as a jerk, but at least talented jerk. I guess for now we can remove talented part, at least in SC2 department...

is there an expiration date on results? idra has a long history of talent.
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