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On July 04 2012 07:00 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 06:44 Embir wrote:On July 04 2012 06:29 Fortii wrote:
sad to watch that everything idra says evolves into a discussion about idra and all the haters feel the need to crawl out of theyr caves and post stupid stuff, instead of discussing the actual content.
this community makes me scratch my head alot.
personally, i enjoy watching zvz, if the players are good at it and show some nice multitastking. but i also agree with that "interview", tier3 is rare and a lot of stuff beside roaches seem weak. Well it only backfires for IdrA for shit he spitted out during early days of SC2. As long as he had results a lot of people take him as a jerk, but at least talented jerk. I guess for now we can remove talented part, at least in SC2 department... is there an expiration date on results? idra has a long history of talent.
From pms:
Original Message From dAPhREAk:
i'll leave tl.net when you learn not to whine so much about idra.
Original Message From skeldark:
Deal.
I will never ever mention his name or him again!
Lets see if you stand to your word!
Thats how you hold your word...
User was warned for this post
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On July 04 2012 04:43 KingOctavious wrote:
the problem is on the players' end and is not an issue of balance.
How could a mirror match ever have balance issues, lol?
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On July 04 2012 07:07 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 07:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 04 2012 06:44 Embir wrote:On July 04 2012 06:29 Fortii wrote:
sad to watch that everything idra says evolves into a discussion about idra and all the haters feel the need to crawl out of theyr caves and post stupid stuff, instead of discussing the actual content.
this community makes me scratch my head alot.
personally, i enjoy watching zvz, if the players are good at it and show some nice multitastking. but i also agree with that "interview", tier3 is rare and a lot of stuff beside roaches seem weak. Well it only backfires for IdrA for shit he spitted out during early days of SC2. As long as he had results a lot of people take him as a jerk, but at least talented jerk. I guess for now we can remove talented part, at least in SC2 department... is there an expiration date on results? idra has a long history of talent. From pms: Show nested quote +Original Message From dAPhREAk:
i'll leave tl.net when you learn not to whine so much about idra. Show nested quote +Original Message From skeldark:
Deal.
I will never ever mention his name or him again!
Lets see if you stand to your word! Thats how you hold your word...
lol. you going less than a couple hours without bitching like a child is not enough. this really isn't an issue for this topic though. keep it in PMs if you want to discuss it.
On July 01 2012 02:41 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:25 IdrA wrote:
how on earth is this still going on
avilo is a joke of a person, anyone who has watched him play, read anything hes written, or heard anything hes said knows that. he kind of tried to act presentable on the show, but he opened up trying to bitch at geoff and then as soon as i started talking he was talking over me and saying i agreed with him when i didnt.
i was very short with him because i know his past outside the show and know he's not worth dealing with. just because someone tones it down once they get a big stage to preach their bullshit from doesnt make them any less of a waste of time. jp brought him on for some cheap laughs, he shouldntve done that and hes apologized, both publicly and to me, and it wont happen again. but avilo isnt supposed to be taken seriously and the fact that this has generated pages of discussion is absurd. Can be but same for you. Noone take you serious any-more so this is not about you. Its more about incontroll and jp because they had reputation to loose.
edit: thats just one of many too.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=idra&t=c&f=-1&u=skeldark&gb=date&d=
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United States7483 Posts
On July 04 2012 07:08 Starshaped wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:43 KingOctavious wrote:
the problem is on the players' end and is not an issue of balance.
How could a mirror match ever have balance issues, lol?
He used the wrong words, rather, what he meant to say is that there is not an issue of certain playstyles being too limiting, like PvP had for a long time before the multiple 4 gate nerfs, and TvT had with blue flame hellions before the blue flame nerf.
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If anything it's the early zvz which isn't mapped out, Mid-game and late game zvz is definitely understandable, it's only early game where luck and randomness comes into play.
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On July 04 2012 07:13 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 07:07 skeldark wrote:On July 04 2012 07:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 04 2012 06:44 Embir wrote:On July 04 2012 06:29 Fortii wrote:
sad to watch that everything idra says evolves into a discussion about idra and all the haters feel the need to crawl out of theyr caves and post stupid stuff, instead of discussing the actual content.
this community makes me scratch my head alot.
personally, i enjoy watching zvz, if the players are good at it and show some nice multitastking. but i also agree with that "interview", tier3 is rare and a lot of stuff beside roaches seem weak. Well it only backfires for IdrA for shit he spitted out during early days of SC2. As long as he had results a lot of people take him as a jerk, but at least talented jerk. I guess for now we can remove talented part, at least in SC2 department... is there an expiration date on results? idra has a long history of talent. From pms: Original Message From dAPhREAk:
i'll leave tl.net when you learn not to whine so much about idra. Original Message From skeldark:
Deal.
I will never ever mention his name or him again!
Lets see if you stand to your word! Thats how you hold your word... lol. you going less than a couple hours without bitching like a child is not enough. this really isn't an issue for this topic though. keep it in PMs if you want to discuss it. Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 02:41 skeldark wrote:On July 01 2012 02:25 IdrA wrote:
how on earth is this still going on
avilo is a joke of a person, anyone who has watched him play, read anything hes written, or heard anything hes said knows that. he kind of tried to act presentable on the show, but he opened up trying to bitch at geoff and then as soon as i started talking he was talking over me and saying i agreed with him when i didnt.
i was very short with him because i know his past outside the show and know he's not worth dealing with. just because someone tones it down once they get a big stage to preach their bullshit from doesnt make them any less of a waste of time. jp brought him on for some cheap laughs, he shouldntve done that and hes apologized, both publicly and to me, and it wont happen again. but avilo isnt supposed to be taken seriously and the fact that this has generated pages of discussion is absurd. Can be but same for you. Noone take you serious any-more so this is not about you. Its more about incontroll and jp because they had reputation to loose. edit: thats just one of many too. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=idra&t=c&f=-1&u=skeldark&gb=date&d=
Last post about this.
this post was before you pm me like you know. You make a promise and break your word, No way to talk yourself out. If you dont have the honor to hold your word atleast have the honor to admit this.
And im no idra hater,. This guy offended me person couple of time without reason but i dont know him personal so how could i hate him?
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On July 04 2012 05:48 artosismermaid wrote:
this guy talks far too much about sc2 and doesn't play enough of it
You know how much he plays?
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On July 04 2012 07:23 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 07:13 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 04 2012 07:07 skeldark wrote:On July 04 2012 07:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 04 2012 06:44 Embir wrote:On July 04 2012 06:29 Fortii wrote:
sad to watch that everything idra says evolves into a discussion about idra and all the haters feel the need to crawl out of theyr caves and post stupid stuff, instead of discussing the actual content.
this community makes me scratch my head alot.
personally, i enjoy watching zvz, if the players are good at it and show some nice multitastking. but i also agree with that "interview", tier3 is rare and a lot of stuff beside roaches seem weak. Well it only backfires for IdrA for shit he spitted out during early days of SC2. As long as he had results a lot of people take him as a jerk, but at least talented jerk. I guess for now we can remove talented part, at least in SC2 department... is there an expiration date on results? idra has a long history of talent. From pms: Original Message From dAPhREAk:
i'll leave tl.net when you learn not to whine so much about idra. Original Message From skeldark:
Deal.
I will never ever mention his name or him again!
Lets see if you stand to your word! Thats how you hold your word... lol. you going less than a couple hours without bitching like a child is not enough. this really isn't an issue for this topic though. keep it in PMs if you want to discuss it. On July 01 2012 02:41 skeldark wrote:On July 01 2012 02:25 IdrA wrote:
how on earth is this still going on
avilo is a joke of a person, anyone who has watched him play, read anything hes written, or heard anything hes said knows that. he kind of tried to act presentable on the show, but he opened up trying to bitch at geoff and then as soon as i started talking he was talking over me and saying i agreed with him when i didnt.
i was very short with him because i know his past outside the show and know he's not worth dealing with. just because someone tones it down once they get a big stage to preach their bullshit from doesnt make them any less of a waste of time. jp brought him on for some cheap laughs, he shouldntve done that and hes apologized, both publicly and to me, and it wont happen again. but avilo isnt supposed to be taken seriously and the fact that this has generated pages of discussion is absurd. Can be but same for you. Noone take you serious any-more so this is not about you. Its more about incontroll and jp because they had reputation to loose. edit: thats just one of many too. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=idra&t=c&f=-1&u=skeldark&gb=date&d= Last post about this. this post was before you pm me like you know. You make a promise and break your word, No way to talk yourself out. If you dont have the honor to hold your word atleast have the honor to admit this.
You think he's Eddard Stark or something lol?
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On July 04 2012 05:48 artosismermaid wrote:
this guy talks far too much about sc2 and doesn't play enough of it
I can sort of understand the sentiment, but it's pretty stupid.
That's like going to a sports bar and telling people they spend too much time watching and discussing football and not enough time playing it.
It's an eSport, you don't have to play it to enjoy it and discuss it.
That being said, it doesn't mean people know what they are talking about, but it's nice to see enough people are interested in it to discuss so many different aspects of the culture.
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United States15275 Posts
On July 04 2012 07:14 Ziktomini wrote:
If anything it's the early zvz which isn't mapped out, Mid-game and late game zvz is definitely understandable, it's only early game where luck and randomness comes into play.
I would not say there is any luck or randomness; those are just excuses. Every loss can be traced back to a bad read, an overly risky decision or a lapse in mechanics.
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On July 04 2012 07:26 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 07:14 Ziktomini wrote:
If anything it's the early zvz which isn't mapped out, Mid-game and late game zvz is definitely understandable, it's only early game where luck and randomness comes into play. I would not say there is any luck or randomness; those are just excuses. Every loss can be traced back to a bad read, an overly risky decision or a lapse in mechanics.
what about a spike in lag during a baneling war?
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On July 04 2012 07:27 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 07:26 CosmicSpiral wrote:On July 04 2012 07:14 Ziktomini wrote:
If anything it's the early zvz which isn't mapped out, Mid-game and late game zvz is definitely understandable, it's only early game where luck and randomness comes into play. I would not say there is any luck or randomness; those are just excuses. Every loss can be traced back to a bad read, an overly risky decision or a lapse in mechanics. what about a spike in lag during a baneling war?
What about a cat jumping on your lap during a baneling war?
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Don't really understand how people can hate on ZvZ to the extent that we tend to see on the forums and in the LR threads. As said in the article, the general lack of hard counters make it much more a game of mechanics and mind games, i.e. like BW, which can only be a good thing.
If every matchup played like a mix between TvZ and ZvZ this game would be fucking amazing.
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On July 04 2012 07:26 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 07:14 Ziktomini wrote:
If anything it's the early zvz which isn't mapped out, Mid-game and late game zvz is definitely understandable, it's only early game where luck and randomness comes into play. I would not say there is any luck or randomness; those are just excuses. Every loss can be traced back to a bad read, an overly risky decision or a lapse in mechanics.
what about a 6pool vs 15 hatch? 6pool vs 14 pool?
Luck and randomness definitely play a big role in the early game, it can win you games or give you massive advantages, if it works.
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On July 04 2012 07:08 Starshaped wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:43 KingOctavious wrote:
the problem is on the players' end and is not an issue of balance.
How could a mirror match ever have balance issues, lol?
Can't be that hard. Imagine if one race had both vikings and colossi. It's not impossible, but it's very difficult to assess (especially in zvz where there's still such a focus on bread-and-butter units, that aren't like colossi)
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On July 04 2012 06:09 sekritzzz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 05:19 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On July 04 2012 05:01 Ireniicus wrote:
Idra is not a good player to quote as he historically does not bring rational argument to anything strategic (anyone that claims "MKP is terrible" is clearly not a logical thinker). Z V Z is getting better and better. I think the recent patch changes have done wonders as I have seen alot of very good zvz's lately...not something I could have said 3 months ago. except that about 8-10 months ago he predicted exactly what zvp would look like now. Right in the middle of all the haters and qqers. What did he actually predict about the the state of ZvP? 8-10 months ago, the only thing I remember is him whining about Collusus death balls and jamming roach/hydra on them, and him discrediting good players because of their race (ex: Idra calling Morrow a Gold-level player if he didnt play the abusive race of terran.) So really... I don't blame people if they dont take idra seriously when it comes to the state of a match up or balance issues.
IdrA has shown countless times that despite performance, his analysis of the game is top notch. He expounded on the need for the ovie buff a year before Blizz finally implemented it. MorroW has not won anything since switching to Zerg from Terran.. If you've seen any of his casting, it is on par if not above Artosis and Day9 in terms of analytical value. Not to mention, his performance vs. Koreans is among the best for foreigners, despite all the hate he gets.
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On July 04 2012 07:00 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 06:44 Embir wrote:On July 04 2012 06:29 Fortii wrote:
sad to watch that everything idra says evolves into a discussion about idra and all the haters feel the need to crawl out of theyr caves and post stupid stuff, instead of discussing the actual content.
this community makes me scratch my head alot.
personally, i enjoy watching zvz, if the players are good at it and show some nice multitastking. but i also agree with that "interview", tier3 is rare and a lot of stuff beside roaches seem weak. Well it only backfires for IdrA for shit he spitted out during early days of SC2. As long as he had results a lot of people take him as a jerk, but at least talented jerk. I guess for now we can remove talented part, at least in SC2 department... is there an expiration date on results? idra has a long history of talent.
he doesn't get top 10 at all in MLG, Dreamhack, or any major tournaments he enters anymore. even when he was "good", he lost to hallucinated void rays, terrans blowing up their own command centers, and "walkovers" like cruncher  he has a history of being a douche but in beta he could back it up, but now he just keeps losing credibility. it IS hilarious to see him rage though, so he's got that going for him. oh and that and calling koreans terrible, when they would roflstomp him in a bo10 showmatch
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I used to hate it, started doing 14gas, 14 pool speedling expand. I have had a lot more success, and no longer detest the matchup.
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On July 04 2012 07:56 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 07:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On July 04 2012 06:44 Embir wrote:On July 04 2012 06:29 Fortii wrote:
sad to watch that everything idra says evolves into a discussion about idra and all the haters feel the need to crawl out of theyr caves and post stupid stuff, instead of discussing the actual content.
this community makes me scratch my head alot.
personally, i enjoy watching zvz, if the players are good at it and show some nice multitastking. but i also agree with that "interview", tier3 is rare and a lot of stuff beside roaches seem weak. Well it only backfires for IdrA for shit he spitted out during early days of SC2. As long as he had results a lot of people take him as a jerk, but at least talented jerk. I guess for now we can remove talented part, at least in SC2 department... is there an expiration date on results? idra has a long history of talent. he doesn't get top 10 at all in MLG, Dreamhack, or any major tournaments he enters anymore. even when he was "good", he lost to hallucinated void rays, terrans blowing up their own command centers, and "walkovers" like cruncher he has a history of being a douche but in beta he could back it up, but now he just keeps losing credibility. it IS hilarious to see him rage though, so he's got that going for him. oh and that and calling koreans terrible, when they would roflstomp him in a bo10 showmatch
his results have been less than stellar this year--no doubt about that. but his history has shown he has staying power. he is more than qualified to express opinions on how the game is being played, and how the game will evolve.
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On July 04 2012 07:38 Hardigan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 07:26 CosmicSpiral wrote:On July 04 2012 07:14 Ziktomini wrote:
If anything it's the early zvz which isn't mapped out, Mid-game and late game zvz is definitely understandable, it's only early game where luck and randomness comes into play. I would not say there is any luck or randomness; those are just excuses. Every loss can be traced back to a bad read, an overly risky decision or a lapse in mechanics. what about a 6pool vs 15 hatch? 6pool vs 14 pool? Luck and randomness definitely play a big role in the early game, it can win you games or give you massive advantages, if it works.
6 pool is a BO loss to every other build
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EPT
