EPTFunny how Terrans have been complaining about TvP yet it is the most balanced matchup in both regions, even favouring Terran more then toss by a bit in korea. Maybe they wouldn't be complaining now if they were at the bottom of all these graphs for the past year like protoss then discovered it was actually a great matchup.
TLPD Winrates May 2012 - Page 20
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paddyz
Ireland628 Posts
Funny how Terrans have been complaining about TvP yet it is the most balanced matchup in both regions, even favouring Terran more then toss by a bit in korea. Maybe they wouldn't be complaining now if they were at the bottom of all these graphs for the past year like protoss then discovered it was actually a great matchup. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On June 08 2012 02:29 skiersteve wrote: the problem with zerg is that like everyone else has said is that they can take a third un contested drone to 70ish drones or more with barley any units, get a insane econ and from there on their macro is just out of control . The main build for terran is 1rax fe with banshees or hellions or both, and both of these can be handled with by just queens and a few lings. Terran mid game virtually doesnt exist any more and has to try win the game with a close to max army and just non stop harrass from there on, but as soon as t3 is out for the zerg is just becomes so god dam hard. And of course not forgetting the insane amount of creep because of the 4 queen opener just slows down pushes so much .. bio tank really doesnt seem to good as of late :/ and mech just seems better in every way :/ Good posts, I added points and spaces  . This is exactly how tvz feels for every high master / grandmaster terran. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On June 08 2012 02:42 Berceno wrote: You forgot to say that in the middle of the battle the only race that heals is terran Yeah and I forgot to say that it comes for free and can heal infinite too. It's not like it costs supply or resource or anything. Let's not go there shall we? I was only talking about the niche of EMP spells, which we all know that it's true. It's a strong spell to initiate the engagement, but as the battle processes, EMP becomes less and less effective; while the fungal and storm are effective throughout the battle. Can you show me what I am saying is not true? | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On June 08 2012 02:52 paddyz wrote: Terran bottom for the 1st time ever? Funny how Terrans have been complaining about TvP yet it is the most balanced matchup in both regions, even favouring Terran more then toss by a bit in korea. Maybe they wouldn't be complaining now if they were at the bottom of all these graphs for the past year like protoss then discovered it was actually a great matchup. Its still stupid but at least there's decents way for a Terran to pressure in TvP before the Toss has an army Terran can barely deal with. In TvZ the eco is the problem not the army and forget about keeping the Zerg eco down . 3 Bases with full saturation basically guaranteed with barely any larva units needed. The only units you can pressure with that don't get eaten alive by pure Lings are Helions/Banshees but Queens shut that down totally. There's a few very very unsave build that can but you even with a Zerg but you basically die to a Roach/Bling push guaranteed or take huge damage from early roaches. Which has also become very hard to scout in time thanks to Queens. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16100 Posts
If the trend continues in June I wouldn't be surprised if that queen change was reversed. It really was in my opinion a perfect example of fixing a problem that required a scalpel with a sledgehammer. | ||
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
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RyF
Austria508 Posts
something has to be done fast. if a terran will win mlg i will never ever address any balance issues. | ||
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imperator-xy
Germany1377 Posts
the process we see now is just putting everyone to the place he should have been in during the last months | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 08 2012 03:00 Vindicare605 wrote: I wonder how much of that TvZ graph has to do with Symbol. If the trend continues in June I wouldn't be surprised if that queen change was reversed. It really was in my opinion a perfect example of fixing a problem that required a scalpel with a sledgehammer. I was going to say that Stephano is ruining the win rates of the other two races. Also, I don't know if the queen buff will be as huge as people say. Terrans have adapted before and will again. They have only recently stopped being the most winning race in SC2. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On June 08 2012 03:04 imperator-xy wrote: terran has been overpowered for nearly 2 years now, so bad terrans are extremely overestimated nowadays the process we see now is just putting everyone to the place he should have been in during the last months Which is why the TvP winrate is still stable ? Every Terran struggles in TvZ since the Patch even a big names want to avoid Zerg and rather play TvP which a Pain in the Ass as well on some Maps . | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On June 08 2012 03:06 Plansix wrote: I was going to say that Stephano is ruining the win rates of the other two races. Also, I don't know if the queen buff will be as huge as people say. Terrans have adapted before and will again. They have only recently stopped being the most winning race in SC2. Unless theres a unit combination out there everybody missed ( especially in early staged ) i don't see how to adapt. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On June 08 2012 03:06 Plansix wrote: I was going to say that Stephano is ruining the win rates of the other two races. Also, I don't know if the queen buff will be as huge as people say. Terrans have adapted before and will again. They have only recently stopped being the most winning race in SC2. I really don't see a possible adaptation in this scenario. Also broodlord infestor is now a problem for months, and I really can't think of a unit composition to fight it. Yes you can drop etc, but if the zerg comes for your production facilities, it's over. | ||
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Geos13
437 Posts
On June 07 2012 17:56 mEtRoSG wrote: tvz is the most imbalanced matchup in sc2 history right now Sorry if this was mentioned elsewhere in the 20+ pages. Doesn't the Korean graph show the PvT has in fact three times been more imbalanced than current TvZ.(PvZ once being off by only 0.2%) I don't think past balance is important but I do feel you shouldn't make baseless sensational claims. | ||
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Toadvine
Poland2234 Posts
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On June 08 2012 03:04 imperator-xy wrote: terran has been overpowered for nearly 2 years now, so bad terrans are extremely overestimated nowadays the process we see now is just putting everyone to the place he should have been in during the last months Haha speaks a player of a race, where even the best players needed nearly 2 years to figure out that upgrades are pretty good. 2 years of letting your 2-0 lings being slautered by 3-3 marines and then complain about marine DPS. Sorry, but Zerg players are historically the dumbest players of the game, not even understanding the most simple game mechanics like upgrades (only a few contra-excamples exist here). So yeah, everyone's put where he belongs  User was warned for this post | ||
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AlexanderDebois
Kyrgyzstan38 Posts
On June 07 2012 18:34 Tsubbi wrote: for the first time in sc2 history terran drops below 50% win overall in korea due to zvt obviously give it 1 or 2 months to judge the matchup, atm terrans use the same builds as prepatch (1 rax cc into hellions), give them some time to adjust ...You are either an idoit or you do not watch GSL. Korean Terrans abandoned reactor hellion over a month ago in favor of 1 rax gasless expo into double gas into banshee sometimes with cloak into third. That is the build you will see 80% of games from Terran right now. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 08 2012 03:09 s3rp wrote: Unless theres a unit combination out there everybody missed ( especially in early staged ) i don't see how to adapt. Watch the Koreans over the next two month, they new openings will appear or stronger follow ups to standard openings. PvZ have been doing this dance since SC2 came out. Protoss finds some sort of agression that works, zerg adapts to it and we invent new agression. We learn how to FFE on most maps, zerg learns how to break it. Protoss learn how to scout the build that breaks FFE, zerg starts to take a gasless fast 3rd base and protoss has to adapt to that. | ||
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dragoon
United States695 Posts
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EmilA
Denmark4618 Posts
On June 08 2012 02:52 paddyz wrote: Terran bottom for the 1st time ever? Funny how Terrans have been complaining about TvP yet it is the most balanced matchup in both regions, even favouring Terran more then toss by a bit in korea. Maybe they wouldn't be complaining now if they were at the bottom of all these graphs for the past year like protoss then discovered it was actually a great matchup. Terrans complain because they're not at pro level, and every protoss sub diamond should be substracted a league to gauge their level, and if better, should have substracted a considerable amount of points. The race is simply too easy and forgiving. User was warned for this post | ||
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