I explain, terran is the blue thingy on te graph, the blue thingy is below the green thingy, and the green thingy is for protoss
if the blue thingy is below the green thingy, terran is having a worse time
if the red thing is above the green thingy which is above the blue thingy overall, terran is having a baaad time

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MateShade

Australia736 Posts

June 07 2012 09:17 GMT

#24

T>p Korea not international

Sambobly

Australia241 Posts

June 07 2012 09:20 GMT

#25

I'm suprised the TvZ is that bad really. I mean, I knew it wasn't going to be pretty but this isn't even including thiis months GSTL results. Wow.

DerFreemind

Germany45 Posts

June 07 2012 09:20 GMT

#26

Yeah TvP is very balanced. I win 50% of my games before the 15 min mark and lose 50% of my games after that

The Problem with the new Queenrage is, that zerg is now relativ safe with 4 queen opening. Therefore they have ALOT of energie for creep. If the Creep is at 12 min at the first watch tower, you are in big troube. All you terran pushes are deleayed big time, so Zerg has enough time to react accordingly. So i am as a Terran player are forced to play a long macrogame where zerg has a big advantage by design. Than there are the maps which are getting bigger and bigger, nice even more time for zerg to prepare!

I would like to see Blizzard to nerf the duration time of creep after i kill the tumor, i takes forever....or most of the time the zerg just puts a new tumor and the creep stays at it is...

Adonminus

Israel543 Posts

June 07 2012 09:27 GMT

#27

It seems that all matches were getting to the 50% win rate and therefor balance. Except TvZ, because the queen range was an over buff, not only it provides really good defense which you might argue is not that imbalanced since in mid game it won't really matter, but the other bigger problem is that it's also really hard to scout since queens can now kill workers. I can feel that even as a protoss player, before I could easily sneak a probe into his main and see everything he had, but now with the queen range upgrade, I can't do that anymore, queens will simply kill my worker. This is really terrible and discourages scouting.

At least zerg don't complain anymore about having no way to scout.....

Charon1979

Austria317 Posts

June 07 2012 09:29 GMT

#28

On June 07 2012 18:15 mEtRoSG wrote:

Show nested quote +

no they havent? again I ask you are u capable of reading graphs

Didn't you bitch about balance on your Streams and even in online Tournaments even when the blue thingy was way over the red thingy?

Omg Korean Zerg has a higher winrate then Korean Terra 1 out of 12 Months we just need November back when the Matchup was considered balanced.
Give it a few Months and it will even out... if not there is still the nerfbat.

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

June 07 2012 09:29 GMT

#29

IMO the TvZ matchup got destroyed. The overlord buff was great, that was fine. But Terran went from having map control early, to having map control of stuff that's not covered by creep, which wouldn't be that bad if zergs couldn't build a ton of queens and just spread creep like mad, and be safe. Terran actually needed that early control vs zerg to stay even throughout the midgame. Buffing them from 3-4 might have still been fine, but 3-5 just made hellions essentially worthless for stopping creep spread.

Dingobloo

Australia1903 Posts

June 07 2012 09:29 GMT

#30

Well at least if zergs were at least consistently winning both matchups they could take a look at their units but with PvZ and ZvP flip flopping every month what the hell is going on in that matchup in korea?

And IMO the fact that unscoutable all-ins and hellions were making up 20% of a win rate in korea should be vindication that they deserved to be toned down, look elsewhere for where to nerf instead of just reverting those changes.

Snowbear

Korea (South)1925 Posts

June 07 2012 09:34 GMT

#31

The graphs are exactly like how I feel about the game atm.

TvP is hard, but it's doable.
TvZ feels just impossible, except:
1) if the zerg allins (I can hold ezpz)
2) if I allin and the zerg fucks up

Zerg is:
- a race that can defend easy early-mid game (sorry guys, but every 2 base agression from terran gets owned)
- a race that has a larvae mechanic that allows for the fastest army remake in the game and that allows for the fastest economy (drones)
- a race that has the strongest lategame composition (broodlord + infestor)

They have the 3 things needed to be the strongest.

Terran is:
- a race that is the strongest early-mid game, but after some nerfs to the terran and some buffs to the zerg, this strength is gone.
- the slowest "remake army race"
- a race that has the weakest lategame composition

Can anyone explain why not a single zerg can help with a counter to broodlord infestor? I asked many zergs, from master to grandmaster. The best advice I got is: "kill me before I make broodlords" and "mass drop".

Tsubbi

Germany7996 Posts

June 07 2012 09:34 GMT

#32

for the first time in sc2 history terran drops below 50% win overall in korea due to zvt obviously

give it 1 or 2 months to judge the matchup, atm terrans use the same builds as prepatch (1 rax cc into hellions), give them some time to adjust

dD3s

Germany130 Posts

June 07 2012 09:36 GMT

#33

Blizzard about balance:

Also, due to the way the math works out we will almost never see ratios of 50:50; we expect a variance of +/- 5% in these results. So, if a win/loss ratio is approximately 55%:45%, this would indicate that the matchup is well balanced. It is only after win/loss ratios exceed 60%:40% that there is an indication that a potential imbalance might exist.

tomatriedes

New Zealand5356 Posts

June 07 2012 09:36 GMT

#34

It's still early days post-patch. Hopefully Terran and Protoss will be able to step it up and do better soon. Apart from Zerg doing a bit too well though things aren't looking too bad balance wise.

Severian

Australia2052 Posts

June 07 2012 09:37 GMT

#35

On June 07 2012 18:13 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Now the lazy foreigners pro playing P/Z have a good shot at beating the likes of MKP, MVP, MMA. LOL.

Didn't Goody just knock MMA out of MLG?

Hall0wed

United States8486 Posts

June 07 2012 09:38 GMT

#36

Yeah I am kind of reminded of all the times in the past in other Blizzard games where everytime they buff something they go way overkill and that new buff breaks something.

Wish I actually had time to play SC2 right now so I could have all this fun with Zerg >.<

decaf

Austria1797 Posts

June 07 2012 09:45 GMT

#37

Buff ghosts and nerf queens, please.
TvZ was perfectly balanced until they did that.

50bani

Romania480 Posts

June 07 2012 09:45 GMT

#38

ZvP is quite volatile, or maybe the metagame is still shifting a lot. Look at how "advantages" shift month over month. A key aspect is the way Zergs play the midgame imo.
There was a time when Mutas were "overpowered", before that Infestors, and they got nerfed, of Protoss got buffed with Phoenix range, so Zergs thought they would just skip the midgame by maxing on Roaches once, and then tech up straight to Broodlord-Infestor. Protosses were abusing this style with good timings just before the Broods pop out, and a bit of Warp Prism action against the now immobile Zerg army. Protosses got the edge in this game structure and now, as in look at recent GSTL matches, Zergs have restarted using a more midgame oriented gameplan, like Muta play. You know, Lair tech is not just for Roach Speed!
So far this month I think Zerg has the better winrate, let's see how Protoss adjusts.

@DerFreemind
Congratulations on solving TvP lategame! Tell us more!
The whole issue with balance whining in this matchup is that the numbers look good but the games are bad, with either the Protoss making a mistake and losing <15min, or getting to lategame and winning invariably. Terran is "imba" midgame and Protoss in lategame, if you like, and this is not a balanced matchup. This state of affairs can not continue indefinitely. It is possible that Protoss will figure out how to defend consistently, or maps will be tailored towards a later game(as they have in fact) and you will see PvT figures about 60% as well.