EPTTLPD Winrates May 2012 - Page 12
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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Scila
Canada1849 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:14 IshinShishi wrote: Ever since the latest patch I consider the Blizzard employees concerned with balance(David Kim and crew?)pure baboons, they managed to MAJORLY fuck up the most balanced matchup(and also, the most entertaining one by far) without even giving the patch enough time to get a proper amount of feedback, baboons is what they are.There are people playing this game for a living, they deserve better than this. Yep first they nerf Ghosts which weren't even problematic (they required a TON of micro, time, and resources to use properly) and were the ONLY way Terran could face Zerg head on in late game, and then they make the only viable pressure build (reactor hellion) incredibly weak by buffing queens for NO REASON. TvZ before ghost nerf was BY FAR the most well-balanced match up and the most fun to watch. Waiting on more late game Terran nerfs, BCs are so op guys... | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:13 MateShade wrote: Read the graph again. T> p in Korea. Why do we even bother releasing these graphs. Seriously shut up. If Terran is so weak, it will begin to show consistently after a long period of time. This is the first month Terran has begun to look underpowered statistically and only in tvz. Until then what the fuck do you want anyone to do about it? If you're not going to read what people are saying, I recommend for you to not post at all. No one has said anything about the win rates in TvP, only that the matchup is shit. That TvZ would flip like this was something that was predictable by anyone who had a clue, as the infestor ling playstyle and stronger lategame was already putting zergs ahead in terms of win ratios and this aggravated the problem even further. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46275 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:05 Twelve12 wrote: to be fair it is pretty hard to make good patch changes that don't break the game either way. Personally i think a reasonable change for the next patch would be to change snipe back to how it used to be While I think we should hold off on more patch changes for the time being (June will be bad because of the recent Zerg buffs, but we should wait until July to see if it re-stabilizes like always), I think this would be a better eventual option if need be: Why don't they just give the tiniest nerf to broodlords? Aren't they the real problem? I thought both of these were the case: 1. Terran really struggles in late game TvZ because of infestor/ corruptor/ broodlord (the first two stop anything from getting to the broodlords, and the broodlords roll over armies) and 2. Protoss really struggles in late game PvZ unless they get a lucky vortex (stopped by merely spreading or splitting broodlords or sniping the mothership with corruptors first). It seems the common denominator here is the broodlords. Why not give them the tiniest life or armor nerf or something that makes them more easily killable? | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:17 Dalavita wrote: If you're not going to read what people are saying, I recommend for you to not post at all. No one has said anything about the win rates in TvP, only that the matchup is shit. That TvZ would flip like this was something that was predictable by anyone who had a clue, as the infestor ling playstyle and stronger lategame was already putting zergs ahead in terms of win ratios and this aggravated the problem even further. Did YOU read what I was quoting? You look like a fool | ||
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Jono7272
United Kingdom6330 Posts
Every half decent playersaw it coming that the patch would make it terribly hard for Terran. Terran now has such limited options, all aggressive options are easily repelled by queens. Korean Terrans seem to be going "Go greedy, or die trying", ends up they either die to a roach bane all in or go to late game with the zerg where they are at a disadvantage again. | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: While I think we should hold off on more patch changes for the time being (June will be bad because of the recent Zerg buffs, but we should wait until July to see if it re-stabilizes like always), I think this would be a better eventual option if need be: Why don't they just give the tiniest nerf to broodlords? Aren't they the real problem? I thought both of these were the case: 1. Terran really struggles in late game TvZ because of infestor/ corruptor/ broodlord (the first two stop anything from getting to the broodlords, and the broodlords roll over armies) and 2. Protoss really struggles in late game PvZ unless they get a lucky vortex (stopped by merely spreading or splitting broodlords or sniping the mothership with corruptors first). It seems the common denominator here is the broodlords. Why not give them the tiniest life or armor nerf or something that makes them more easily killable? The problem isn't the brood lords, it's the infestors that allow for the brood lords to become such a huge problem, while also being extremely strong in every other area of the game. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46275 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:19 Dalavita wrote: The problem isn't the brood lords, it's the infestors that allow for the brood lords to become such a huge problem, while also being extremely strong in every other area of the game. If the problem is only the infestors, then the ghosts can actually already deal with them >.> | ||
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Griffith`
714 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: If the problem is only the infestors, then the ghosts can actually already deal with them >.> Ghosts can sort of deal with infestors, but not mass infestors, and they get rolled by everything else zerg. Infestors can deal with everything terran and work as great support for brood lords. | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: While I think we should hold off on more patch changes for the time being (June will be bad because of the recent Zerg buffs, but we should wait until July to see if it re-stabilizes like always), I think this would be a better eventual option if need be: Why don't they just give the tiniest nerf to broodlords? Aren't they the real problem? I thought both of these were the case: 1. Terran really struggles in late game TvZ because of infestor/ corruptor/ broodlord (the first two stop anything from getting to the broodlords, and the broodlords roll over armies) and 2. Protoss really struggles in late game PvZ unless they get a lucky vortex (stopped by merely spreading or splitting broodlords or sniping the mothership with corruptors first). It seems the common denominator here is the broodlords. Why not give them the tiniest life or armor nerf or something that makes them more easily killable? Protoss struggles midgame pvz as well. The matchup is difficult for both sides at many various times in the game | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
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Shiori
3815 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: If the problem is only the infestors, then the ghosts can actually already deal with them >.> The problem that Terran has with BL/Infestor is different than the problem Protoss has with it. Terran's problem is essentially that it can never hold any sort of tech switch or remax due to having to overmake Vikings. The problem Protoss has is that the composition can never be engaged and marches toward you with a wall of Spine Crawlers. The only way to win is to land a very lucky (and that's all it is) Vortex. This used to be viable, but Zergs have gotten rather good at spreading their BLs, which means that Protoss players basically can't win if the game gets to a point where the Zerg has 15+ BLs. That's just shitty for the matchup in general. Increase BL supply, please. These stats aren't very helpful for PvZ mostly because the Korean metagame against Zerg is to 2base all-in in order to avoid BL/Infestor. Looking at the styles of Parting/MC/Squirtle etc., they all all-in more than 50% of the time in PvZ, which unhelpfully inflates the statistics to make it look like Protoss has an event shot in a macro game. | ||
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DawN883
Sweden558 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:19 Dalavita wrote: The problem isn't the brood lords, it's the infestors that allow for the brood lords to become such a huge problem, while also being extremely strong in every other area of the game. It's a combination of a number of things that togheter makes zerg lategame strong. Not a single zerg unit is op without help from other units. The infestor is a incredibly strong unit when it comes to supporting other zerg units like the brood lord. | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:25 sCCrooked wrote: So Korea is showing a skew towards Z TvZ but PvZ is fine and PvT is basically perfectly balanced. Internationally though (so unless you're Korean...) every matchup is within what would be considered perfect balance for all matchups. So essentially unless you're a Korean pro or Korean GM/Top8Master, shouldn't hear any whining from anybody? Well that doesn't follow any logic at all.. Oh wait | ||
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sevia
United States954 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46275 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:24 Dalavita wrote: Ghosts can sort of deal with infestors, but not mass infestors, and they get rolled by everything else zerg. Infestors can deal with everything terran and work as great support for brood lords. Well obviously, infestors don't have unlimited energy, the Terran is going to need more than just ghosts (and more than just two ghosts against *mass* infestor), and- again- the infestors shouldn't be able to get away with fungaling everything so easily (positioning, siege line, splitting/ micro, etc.). I think it's more of a broodlord problem, as they're the Zerg siege units. ::shrugs:: | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On June 07 2012 22:47 DawN883 wrote: Blue flame was actually really f*cking strong before the nerf it completely fucked up TvT too, way more than TvZ. That nerf was really needed. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4417/35710622.jpg) is a bit too much. It's not that Z win every game, it's that they are in every game. It's the same thing in IPL (though have more to do with Z heavy teams playing). Seems the current solution against Z is use more Z, which makes games rather stale. | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On June 07 2012 23:27 sevia wrote: Marine-tank is on its way out, I think. Recent changes have forced terrans to reevaluate how to play the early- and mid-game vs. a monster economy zerg, and I'm confident that as soon as terrans like MVP can work out the timings and details, a late-game oriented mech style will present itself as the better option. While I agree, I think that marine tank medivac vs ling bling muta is the most entertaining sc2 to watch, so it's sad that tvz is now dominated by infestor vs undecided terran | ||
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