GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating th…

On July 12 2012 18:57 Clarity_nl wrote:
I might have missed it but I haven't see this link posted yet:http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6036617282#1

On July 12 2012 22:49 Doodsmack wrote:
Anyone claiming that we only have flimsy evidence on zoohairz needs to refute our specific points regarding the replays, especially the city one. None of you have done so, you're just talking in generalities. Have you watched the replays? Do you think it's plausible that all of the following would happen in a single game?

- Sees pylon behind nat after hatch first but doesn't send down 4 drones (opponent opened gateway).
- Proceeds to not scout at all, not even to see if his opponent built a nexus, and drones up freely.
- Never bothers to scout his opponent's main or army comp all throughout the early and midgame (high master?)
- Floats 1.7k by 12:30 (high master?)
- does all of the following army movements: counterattacks a 3rd immediately after his opponent moves out; repeatedly clicks with a group of lings on an odd place on the map which happens to be where a group of stalkers are walking apart from the rest of his opponents army; repeatedly clicks with group of lings at an odd spot near his opponent's 3rd where his opponent's army happens to be; moves his army to his 4th and then to his 5th, exactly in tune with his opponents army which moves first towards the 4th and then turns around and goes toward the 5th (out of vision of zoohairz - why is zoohairz randomly moving his entire army around his bases without bothering to be map aware?)
- At 18 minutes into the game, the INSTANT his opponent starts a dark shrine, he puts down spores and spines at EVERY base.

Do you really think all of the above, combined with similarly suspicious movements in other replays, could just be coincidence? What are the odds of them just being coincidences? I invite you to watch the replay vs city on daybreak if you think I'm exaggerating. If I were Zwei I would definitely be adding zoohairz to the OP. Zwei's videos in the OP examine the same amount of replays that we have for zoohairz.

On July 13 2012 08:02 RemarK wrote:


Let me refute your points in order;

1) Some zergs don't pull drones to kill a pylon, they'll wait till you start a cannon. A zerg not overreacting to a pylon indicates..... nothing.
2) Zergs also play blind greedy all the time. A zerg blindly droning in the early game means..... nothing. Especially after fake pylon pressure, you can assume a Nexus (why would you invest in a fake pylon if you were all-in'ing? hardly anyone ever 1-bases zerg anyways)
3) Again, people do things blind, DOESN'T MEAN HE'S HACKING. You can't genuinely think that anytime someone does something blind or without heavy scouting they are maphacking? I do no-scout / delayed-scout builds in PvP and PvT, my replays probably look as "suspicious" to the "experts" in this thread as some of the others that are being questioned.
4) He had a macro slip therefore he is maphacking? I don't need to address how ridiculous that sounds.
5) The army moment with lings to the stalkers is random / suspicious, but hardly conclusive..
6) 18 minutes into the game is a standard time in a macro pvz to be have detection and spines at every base? Why would he start building spores when the DT shrine starts? An intelligent maphacker would build the spores and spines as the DT shrine was 50~ seconds away from finishing because he would know how much he could delay spores / spines.

I watched the games, I'm not talking out of my ass; I don't even like zoohairZ. But you have at best lots of circumstantial evidence. I'm not saying that zoohairZ doesn't hack; it's very possible he does. But there's nothing solid enough in these replays to make any serious accusations. This thread has overstepped it's boundaries; if you want to make a thread where you investigate every potential high masters / GM maphacker, make a new thread where you clearly define the process you use and give other trustworthy community figures a say in the process too.

Consider a PvT where the Protoss realizes the blink stalkers in his main are out of position to deny drops; he blinks them into a better position. By sheer coincidence, the same time he did that a drop was coming and it looks like blatant, inexplicable army movement (when in reality he was just patching a hole in his defense at a lucky time). SC2 is a game of constant actions and adjustments, players are limited by their own speed; just because their army starts moving coincidentally doesn't mean they're hacking, it just means they finally found the apm to reposition X units or scout for Y.

Consider a player who streams 60% of their ladder games and has a worse winrate when streaming then without streaming. Is he a maphacker? Should he be considered suspect? Maybe he gets lower FPS or lags when he streams and plays worse as a result?

How about when players are scouting for proxies, and they don't shift queue up and coincidentally find it on their first attempt? Is that suspicious?

Of course, the answer to all of the above is no, but those seem like the sorts of random factors that are being considered as serious indicators of maphacking in this thread. People's reputations are on the line, and I don't think there is appropriate accountability for the accusers here. You've even had to take down accusation videos in the past on people you were convinced were maphacking based on circumstantial evidence, so it's pretty disgusting that you are entertaining claims based on so little.

On July 12 2012 22:49 Doodsmack wrote:
Anyone claiming that we only have flimsy evidence on zoohairz needs to refute our specific points regarding the replays, especially the city one. None of you have done so, you're just talking in generalities. Have you watched the replays? Do you think it's plausible that all of the following would happen in a single game?

- Sees pylon behind nat after hatch first but doesn't send down 4 drones (opponent opened gateway).
- Proceeds to not scout at all, not even to see if his opponent built a nexus, and drones up freely.
- Never bothers to scout his opponent's main or army comp all throughout the early and midgame (high master?)
- Floats 1.7k by 12:30 (high master?)
- does all of the following army movements: counterattacks a 3rd immediately after his opponent moves out; repeatedly clicks with a group of lings on an odd place on the map which happens to be where a group of stalkers are walking apart from the rest of his opponents army; repeatedly clicks with group of lings at an odd spot near his opponent's 3rd where his opponent's army happens to be; moves his army to his 4th and then to his 5th, exactly in tune with his opponents army which moves first towards the 4th and then turns around and goes toward the 5th (out of vision of zoohairz - why is zoohairz randomly moving his entire army around his bases without bothering to be map aware?)
- At 18 minutes into the game, the INSTANT his opponent starts a dark shrine, he puts down spores and spines at EVERY base.

Do you really think all of the above, combined with similarly suspicious movements in other replays, could just be coincidence? What are the odds of them just being coincidences? I invite you to watch the replay vs city on daybreak if you think I'm exaggerating. If I were Zwei I would definitely be adding zoohairz to the OP. Zwei's videos in the OP examine the same amount of replays that we have for zoohairz.

On July 14 2012 03:51 Doodsmack wrote:
@remark, I admit that any of my points viewed in isolation is circumstantial. And I agree that any random player's replays will have seemingly suspicious army movements that are just coincidence. My question in regards to zoohairz is at what point does a pile of coincidences become too much to believe? Catching random stalker group, moving entire army from base to base on sync with enemy army, building spores and spines the exact instant a DT shrine starts in the lategame, dodging a void ray perfectly with an overseer, and that's not all. The DT shrine is particularly suspect, and your counter about what an intelligent hacker would do is rather weak because it's not necessarily less suspicious to have your spores and spines finish when a DT shrine finishes than it is to have them start when the shrine starts. It's also not valid to assume a hacker would be intelligent in the first place. The DT shrine timing is quite an amazing coincidence, I think you'll have to admit. As is the overseer loop around.

On July 14 2012 02:59 Fede wrote:
RevSecret confirmed hacker changed his id to "Terran" and is still maphacking:

http://sc2ranks.com/us/2098596/RevSecret

A quick TL search for "RevSecret" will tell you about him.

On July 15 2012 05:04 Ejden wrote:
Just played a game vs Behemoth high master protoss, new account. And well...
http://drop.sc/221977
If you look how he controls his stalkers from 9-11 min especially around 11min were i return home with mutas.. I can come to no other cunlusion than maphack. Watched it countless times. Tell me what you think.

On July 14 2012 02:59 Fede wrote:
RevSecret confirmed hacker changed his id to "Terran" and is still maphacking:

http://sc2ranks.com/us/2098596/RevSecret

A quick TL search for "RevSecret" will tell you about him.

On July 16 2012 04:45 NotYetAWoman wrote:
This thread is a joke. and shouldv been closed ages ago. 90% of the replays posted here are nothing but a joke, liturally no proof is given and still their ruining the reputation of players that are doing "OK". People are butthurt when they loose and try to find some exuse, was like this in BW and in WC3. 1+, <3 this community but seriously! -.-

On July 16 2012 04:33 XenoSC wrote:
I was talking to one of my friends about the situation and he said that his coach had sent him a replay of how to properly 11/11 rax proxy (lol, im guessing at what supply to send your SCVs at and where to place your bunkers) and he sent a replay of ZoohairZ, you can check it out its from 7-2-12, I reuploaded it to dropSC

http://drop.sc/222518

Just some notes: when I watch this I really get the vibe that he doesn't maphack, he reacts right when he notices nothing is in my base by building a pool, the MOST suspcious thing in this replay is that he goes straight to the middle, but in reality any Z at a high masters level counts the drones and then concludes that its a proxy rax based on the fact that im only mining with like 7-9 scvs. Other than that, he sends his overlord to his close air, and if you go to his cam even ques up commands to the north base.

On July 16 2012 03:06 Psychobabas wrote:


lol yeah, clear maphacking.

When was this game played?