GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating th…

You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.

Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence.

Silvertine

United States509 Posts

May 28 2012 23:33 GMT

#341

On May 29 2012 07:22 CCalms wrote:

Show nested quote +

Of course, maybe he just didn't have his maphack on that game ^^ Just playing devil's advocate during the witch hunt I guess! ^^

People need to stop throwing around "witch hunt", "lynch mob" and "pitchforks" on this forum. There is absolutely nothing in this thread that could be remotely compared to a witch hunt.

TT1

Canada9984 Posts

May 28 2012 23:35 GMT

#342

im gonna stream snipe the shit out him right now

Silvertine

United States509 Posts

May 28 2012 23:35 GMT

#343

On May 29 2012 08:35 mTwTT1 wrote:
im gonna stream snipe the shit out him right now

God speed.

ZweiGaming

Canada348 Posts

May 28 2012 23:36 GMT

#344

On May 29 2012 08:35 mTwTT1 wrote:
im gonna stream snipe the shit out him right now

I'll do the same, hopefully we don't match xD

TT1

Canada9984 Posts

May 28 2012 23:37 GMT

#345

he doesnt have enought elo t.t

StimiLant

United States534 Posts

May 28 2012 23:37 GMT

#346

gl payam <3

TT1

Canada9984 Posts

May 28 2012 23:40 GMT

#347

fuck my video card keeps crashing : [

aTcho

France18 Posts

May 28 2012 23:50 GMT

#348

omg... Fuck hackers.

Eifer

United States138 Posts

May 28 2012 23:56 GMT

#349

don't worry tt1 i got him just now -.-

LuckyFool

United States9015 Posts

May 29 2012 00:02 GMT

#350

lol watching this kids stream now, he's so bad...The reason I thought he didnt hack last night was after the game I saw he had tons of games and only like a 54% winrate. guess hes just really that bad holy shit.

Lavit2099

United States390 Posts

May 29 2012 00:06 GMT

#351

Guess I'm late to the party, what's the name of the stream being discussed?

Legion710

Canada423 Posts

May 29 2012 00:08 GMT

#352

Map hackers have been pretty common so far. I guess I stopped caring since it's just ladder.

Doodsmack

United States7224 Posts

May 29 2012 00:12 GMT

#353

Based on a quick browse through d3scene it seems there have been some recent ban/suspension waves. April 10 seems to be the most recent one. Sadly it seems Blizzard's policy is to do a 14 day suspension first and only perma ban for repeat offenders. It does seem like Blizzard reads in-game reports and takes action based on them.

Looks like Blizzard definitely makes money off these people, here's what one guy who was suspended said:

"So I bought a few new accounts. I plan on getting them all suspended, because I'm going to Dark Voice them all. Waste of time/money yes. But anyways, back on topic, the suspension is over welcome back everyone!"

Was funny to do some Google searching of these guys' user names and try to find them on facebook and whatnot. I found the above guy's facebook profile in about 20 seconds and he looks like such a fucking loser lol. He says that the only time he doesn't feel depressed is when sitting at his computer playing games. He's 18 years old...uses multiple hacks and bots ROFL...you really just have to feel sorry for these people.

Nimic

Norway1360 Posts

May 29 2012 00:12 GMT

#354

On May 29 2012 08:40 mTwTT1 wrote:
fuck my video card keeps crashing : [

The hackers are getting stronger...!

Silvertine

United States509 Posts

May 29 2012 00:14 GMT

#355

reddit is on the case

this mofos goin down

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/u8m4d/na_gm_protoss_streams_himself_while_hacking_and/

http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/u8po4/grandmaster_player_maphacking_on_na_server_we/

Lavit2099

United States390 Posts

May 29 2012 00:22 GMT

#356

Ah, Impa. I really do feel sorry for people who feel the need to cheat in multiplayer games. What's the point in playing?

And I think Blizzard only went after the Glider people because they were making money off of Blizzard's IP. Don't know of any other cases of Blizzard getting companies shut down. Maybe a gold seller or two, but that's a whole other issue that doesn't really pertain to SC2.

thebig1

248 Posts

May 29 2012 00:22 GMT

#357

On May 29 2012 00:14 Inori wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 28 2012 23:52 thebig1 wrote:

On May 28 2012 23:03 Inori wrote:

On May 28 2012 22:42 rotegirte wrote:

On May 28 2012 22:28 Inori wrote:

On May 28 2012 21:52 .syd. wrote:
The problem isn`t Warden. Blizzard could spent tons of effort in improving it and hackers would still break it easily. Actually, Warden isnt as bad as people think it is. Its just a fundamental problem that due to the way programs run on your systems, you can always somehow bypass cheat detections like Warden.

There is, however, quite an obvious technical solution to completely eliminate maphacks: Dont let your client know about the positions of units inside your fog of war. This would render all maphacks largely useless. It also requires that every game is hosted by a centralized server that serves as a "broker" and permanently checks the view if one player and only forwards unit positions accordingly. It makes things a bit more complex and requires more computing power from the Blizzard servers. But nonetheless I think this is the only viable solution.

It's not a viable solution and it's not a question of server power.

Anyone thinking this is viable - do an experiment. Take a big replay with a huge battle and let in run through on x8 speed. Feel the lag? Now imagine that your PC would have to endure this strain every single time an opponent goes in/out of FoW.
Every single time you're about to see something move out of FoW, your PC would have to recalculate their positioning and re-render every unit. Keeping in mind that SC2 is already a very demanding game and you'd have this game unplayable even with the most high tier PCs.

P.S. In before "HoN has something like that" - rendering 1-5 units at once is nothing compared to 200/200, especially if they're some shit like BL/Infestor/ling.

How does server-side managed positional information have anything to do with rendering?

Not sure how to respond to this question. Are you trolling me? That's like basics of basics...

If you seriously don't understand, then think of each unit render as typing a large forum post:
Right now you only need to type it in once, then just fix typos here and there.
With server-side positioning you'd have to re-type it in from scratch every single time you wanted to fix a typo. Not even with ctrl+c/ctrl+v, from scratch.

It sounds like you are in a highschool programming class and don't actually know much about coding or memory management...
The base structure that would hold a unit in SC2 would be fairly small, a handful of bytes is all you would likely need. The traffic required to create one would be extremely small, and the traffic to dispose of one would be insignificat. Both combined would be DWARFED by the amount of data that's already being passed from server to client because of people spamming move commands and the like.

The difference is it would take more coding from Blizzard, and some amount of stress on servers. The way that it is now they don't need to do any filtering what so ever. There needs to be no tracking of viewstates of either player. If it happens on the map you can just send it over. The bandwidth needed to just send everything is actually quite small, so it's the fastest and easiest way. Remember, this method was usable on dialup when combined with a large buffer.
To control who can see what server side you then need to process what either player is able to see, and then filter based on that. Which I could see being a giant pain to try and optimise.
It's going to increase costs for both hosting and programming, so why bother doing it?

I dumbed it down as much as possible because I didn't know what to expect from the guy I was answering to.

I'm not high school level, but I do have to admit I have limited knowledge when it comes to rendering and memory management in general.
That said, I have huge doubts about your points and thus your qualifications on the subject. Are you seriously suggesting a single unit render takes couple of bytes and no CPU overhaul? May I ask what, in your opinion, goes into the 1,5-2gb sc2 eats up, then?
And we're only talking about unit rendering, there's also tiny bits for PC to recalculate like their positioning on the map, used mineral patch sizes, damaged buildings state, etc.

In case you didn't understand my point - for this system to work, user client needs to become stateless and stop relying on in-memory information.
I might not know some hardcore algorithms that let you do that, but my limited knowledge tells me that there's not a single PC available to normal users capable of solving this problem for a game like SC2. If I'm completely off here, please do explain, I'd be very thankful.

P.S. Just to be sure that we're on the same page, here's my GH/SO:
https://github.com/Inori
http://stackoverflow.com/users/816365/inori

Link yours please. Or something I could see that proves you're quafilied to talk on this subject.

I was not suggesting all the information required to render a unit takes up a couple of bytes. I was saying the data the server would need to transmit in order to tell the client what to render would be. You would be crazy to send all the code/assets to the client on a per unit basis even in the current model. All that really needs to be sent are things such as what type of unit it is, it's location, what it's doing, etc. Most of which is already being sent. From there you are able to trust the client to take the unit type ID and render it properly. If someone creates a hack to make marines look like motherships on their client side, big whoop it's not like that really effects anything.

You dont need to do away with in-memory information completely, because if someone hacks their client to send a different state to the server it's easy to detect.

For a more simple example look at it this way. It's oh so easy enough to fix the production hack type stuff. You don't send any information at all to the other player about what is building! Okay, now the hack no longer works.
However, that also means that the buildings no longer glow when they are building. So we need to send the most basic information about if it's building or not. So let's say buildingID, and isBuilding. Great, now they can have their fancy effects. Unfortunately, it also means there is no way to glance at or click on any buildings to get more information. Maybe you want to see how close the building is to complete, or what's being built. So you add that information too. Say buildingID, percentComplete, unitID.
Well now you're back to square one, and open to the production hack again. So the way around it is to have the server keep track of the player's fog of war and only send information for the buildings that the player is able to see. At that point you have decision to make. Do you put more load on the server and make it sit there constantly polling what each player can see and then decide what to send and what not to, or do you just spend a couple more bytes of bandwidth and just send the list of 20 buildings and their production.

Someone decided it's cheaper ($$$) to spend more on bandwidth than it is on more servers and the programmer hours to optimise everything. If it's not broke don't fix it style. Whatever.

Also about the GH/SO. I have accounts in neither. I work in the corporate world not the open source world, in the land of NDAs, and as such don't want to tell you what I code for a living. If that makes you want to disregard what I have to say, fine. That's your prerogative. I had interest in turning things into a dick waving contest.

EtherealDeath

United States8366 Posts

May 29 2012 00:22 GMT

#358

On May 29 2012 07:22 CCalms wrote:

Show nested quote +

ninetail sounded familiar so I checked and I did play him in a PvP. He 4gated me and it failed so he tried to expand and got a robo and sentries and I swooped in with sentries and 4gates and killed him. He certainly was not maphacking in that game (robo lol). Just saying, if your accusatory trigger finger is a bit too happy you better watch it, calling people out on maphacking with such certainty on teamliquid if you dont know for sure is very very very bm.

Of course, maybe he just didn't have his maphack on that game ^^ Just playing devil's advocate during the witch hunt I guess! ^^

Wow, dsninetail even advertises selling coaching in channels. I wonder how many people he's ripped off this way... if he's really Impa... but then again there are other fake gms who sell or have sold coaching as well, not all having gotten gm by maphacking, but others who bought GM.

Psychonian

United States2322 Posts

May 29 2012 00:24 GMT

#359

Watching that replay, switching between the two viewpoints, it was very obvious that he was maphacking. This player needs to be banned immediately! And I agree with many people, Blizzard just does not seem to care. It is absolutely ridiculous, it is a major problem, but as long as people keep buying diablo 1/2/3, wc 1/2/3, sc1/bw/2, or WoW, they will not do anything, or so it would seem.

I shall immediately log on and BM the shit out of him! High bronze so I most certainly cannot play him lol. Yay hehehehe