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Observer style? Which type do you prefer for SC2? - Page 4

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LimitSEA
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia9580 Posts
May 21 2012 04:32 GMT
#61
ST_Legend is awesome. I didn't really notice much difference in his observing style when watching PL yesterday other than lack of bars/production tabs. And I actually prefer being able to look up there and see what's going on, or have the "workers killed" bar pop up after some nice harass.

People saying GSL's style is messy and all that jazz haven't watched enough to speak without bias. Legend is brilliant. Both styles are great, but I really do prefer having those "useless bars" pop up every now and then.
Long live the King of Wings
Belha
Profile Joined December 2010
Italy2850 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 04:34:32
May 21 2012 04:33 GMT
#62
The kespa style is better imo, except for the fact that they use a very low resolution just to make an easier the transition between both games.
Edit.: Is just a personal preference, i like the gsl obs too, just prefer the kespa classic.
Chicken gank op
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
May 21 2012 04:35 GMT
#63
On May 21 2012 13:27 zefreak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 20 2012 22:53 fabiano wrote:
On May 20 2012 22:28 Angra wrote:
What's the GSL/Foreign tournaments style? I haven't really watched much of either so what's the difference between those and the OGN style?


OGN is awesome, with dramatic close-ups in players faces and the observer never misses any action, the screen is overall cleaner (no unit health bar, no APM bar, no units lost bar, or any other of the useless bars). Cast feels dynamic, especially with such awesome commentators and BW epic crowd.

In GSL they just put on the screen as much shit as they possibly can, they often keep switching those useless bars (APM, units lost, workers lost, etc), they also leave all the units/buildings health bars on all the time. Instead of epic zooms, they just have a static camera in each players face all game long in the HUD. Cast feels static, especially with almost no crowd cheering.


Yeah, thats a totally objective and unbiased assessment..

Not only that but it's 100% wrong lol. GSL has plenty of zooms. Most casters have made comments/jokes about it, Legend is so amazing at getting zoom shots like the Nukes going off etc.
fraktoasters
Profile Joined January 2011
United States617 Posts
May 21 2012 04:44 GMT
#64
On May 21 2012 13:35 mrtomjones wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2012 13:27 zefreak wrote:
On May 20 2012 22:53 fabiano wrote:
On May 20 2012 22:28 Angra wrote:
What's the GSL/Foreign tournaments style? I haven't really watched much of either so what's the difference between those and the OGN style?


OGN is awesome, with dramatic close-ups in players faces and the observer never misses any action, the screen is overall cleaner (no unit health bar, no APM bar, no units lost bar, or any other of the useless bars). Cast feels dynamic, especially with such awesome commentators and BW epic crowd.

In GSL they just put on the screen as much shit as they possibly can, they often keep switching those useless bars (APM, units lost, workers lost, etc), they also leave all the units/buildings health bars on all the time. Instead of epic zooms, they just have a static camera in each players face all game long in the HUD. Cast feels static, especially with almost no crowd cheering.


Yeah, thats a totally objective and unbiased assessment..

Not only that but it's 100% wrong lol. GSL has plenty of zooms. Most casters have made comments/jokes about it, Legend is so amazing at getting zoom shots like the Nukes going off etc.


I think he means the zooms into the player's faces. Can you zoom in BW?

Anyways, the only time anyone does anything interesting is at the moments before they GG, showing their faces before really adds nothing.
Hokay
Profile Joined May 2007
United States738 Posts
May 21 2012 04:46 GMT
#65
ST_Legend needs to stop zooming in on units during battles. I hate that and it feel like it kinda ruins those OH SHIT moments... like baneling landmines and archon toilets.
Disengaged
Profile Joined July 2010
United States6994 Posts
May 21 2012 04:48 GMT
#66
I don't care which.
zefreak
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States2731 Posts
May 21 2012 04:49 GMT
#67
On May 21 2012 13:46 Hokay wrote:
ST_Legend needs to stop zooming in on units during battles. I hate that and it feel like it kinda ruins those OH SHIT moments... like baneling landmines and archon toilets.


The baneling landmine zooms are the best things ever, Legend turns them into works of art.
www.gosu-sc.com - Starcraft News, Strategy and Merchandise
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
May 21 2012 04:54 GMT
#68
On May 21 2012 13:49 zefreak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2012 13:46 Hokay wrote:
ST_Legend needs to stop zooming in on units during battles. I hate that and it feel like it kinda ruins those OH SHIT moments... like baneling landmines and archon toilets.


The baneling landmine zooms are the best things ever, Legend turns them into works of art.

Yah I have never felt like I missed a thing because of them. They enhance it. He doesn't do it in big battles...

I think they should have split screen face shots at certain moments so you can watch battles and faces if they are showing emotion. But, on topic.. Legend is amazing and shouldnt change a thing :D
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 05:01:25
May 21 2012 04:56 GMT
#69
A few thoughts that may not have come across in the OP. So that I can clear things up.

1. I'm speaking more about "style" rather than "did they catch everything." I do feel I see everything with both GSL and OGN casts. But they're different. The most obvious one being that Legend likes to use production tabs to give the info, while OGN would actually click on things themselves. To give an example, OGN ob would actually go through which barracks have the tech lab add-on and click on the EBay upgrading. This obviously is not necessary in the sense that they HAVE to click on them. But rather it puts the emphasis on such things to the viewer. I personally prefer this. But obviously for some this may feel redundant or take away from watching other things. And yes, sometimes the OGN observer will purposely hide certain things to give an air of suspense in BW. I didn't notice much in the SC2 casts, but if some of you thought that. It probably was by design.

2. OGN style, which of course came from the old BW style of observing, cuts very fast. You see something, and 2 seconds later you see something else. There's constant switching among bases and armies. For those who never watched BW, this was actually necessary, because there are no tabs for BW and the observer has to catch everything. The downside of course is that you may not be able to keep up with the observer or simply prefer a slower style. Perhaps it's because I'm so used to American TV/cinema(very fast cutting of scenes, different POVs). But the slower pace of GSL, and even moreso foreign tournaments, make the game seem slower. Again, this is more a personal preference.

3. As others have also pointed out, the resolution and 4:3 ratio is more for TV and the low resolution of BW games. It's very possible this gets changed once Kespa switches to SC2 full-time.

4. And lastly, I am asking about PERSONAL PREFERENCE. We all have our own preferences. I don't want it to be about A is better than B, because top observers do catch most everything.
Meh
yeastiality
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada374 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 05:12:49
May 21 2012 05:07 GMT
#70
Voted 'foreign tournaments', not because I'm "not enough of an SC2 viewer to discern the difference", but because I watch a lot and prefer foreign tournaments' observing. They miss the same things that Legend and others miss, but in the case of MLG they show it in other ways (picture-in-picture, "NOS performance replay" etc).

As a side note, I really want the people who cast/spectate to take half an hour and memorize all the hotkeys for the tabs in the replay UI. It's so obvious all the time when casters want the observer to show a certain tab but it just doesn't happen..

SC2 has a different spectator UI than BW, and using it to its full effect is something I don't think we've seen yet.

Another thing is the level of play - SC2 is still a young game and it's still very prone to 'army vs army' clashes being the only thing observed. When people like Gumiho incorporate an insane amount of multitasking, observers can follow the different parts of it, but how often do we see people do more than a 2-prong medivac drop or some burrowed infestors split away from their main army? It doesn't take long to show some infested terrans getting puked at a hatchery, or a DT waypointing across some drones, and those things happen infrequently too.
Anktious
Profile Joined September 2010
United States190 Posts
May 21 2012 05:14 GMT
#71
On May 21 2012 13:30 Kluey wrote:
The Kespa face zoom when someone big happens to me is amazing. It links the game with real world and makes it look like a sport. It's brilliant.



YES!! THIS EXACTLY!! I always loved watching BW especially during those critical moments when crazy stuff was going on that would make the players display some form of emotion (ggaemo, anyone?).

That and when they switch to the fpview of a player showing his mouse clicks and which hotkeys they're using and for what. The sc2 version of the fpview isn't as great as the real fpview has been for BW :/ Not trying to turn it into another SC2 vs BW argument, just mentioning the few things that sc2 event producers could improve upon.

On January 23 2009 04:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I hate it when i sit at my computer and post on this forum when suddenly my dick launches out of my pants and makes me type incorrectly.. starts mashing ont h legnskzsnmklbf oh fuck there we go again.
Battousai13
Profile Joined September 2010
United States638 Posts
May 21 2012 05:22 GMT
#72
ST_Legend zooming is a work cinematics.

I really can't say which is better right now though. Proleague has barely had time to get used to observing in SC2. It is a horizontal transition, but the little details still need to be worked out. This poll is better saved until the second season of Proleague, when they've had time to reflect on their own performance and viewer feedback.
sc14s
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5052 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 05:29:45
May 21 2012 05:25 GMT
#73
erh? there is none better than ST_legend! not that ogn isn't a close 2nd but .. legend is amazing. He shows everything that the observer needs to know even without the casters catching things sometimes. especially showing you what certain players have and haven't scouted and when the players are missing an upgrade or an upgrade is about to finish as a player starts to move out for a timing push ect ect.. countless things that i haven't really seen as much in any other casts than the gsl (ogn included.. though i give them leniency for just swapping over recently)
Jepsyn
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada364 Posts
May 21 2012 05:27 GMT
#74
I enjoyed the proleague observer but i really don't care either way. I love watching Starcraft any way i cant get it.
"Wonder what this game would be like if protoss units cost money" - IdrA
LimitSEA
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia9580 Posts
May 21 2012 05:40 GMT
#75
On May 21 2012 13:56 baubo wrote:
A few thoughts that may not have come across in the OP. So that I can clear things up.

1. I'm speaking more about "style" rather than "did they catch everything." I do feel I see everything with both GSL and OGN casts. But they're different. The most obvious one being that Legend likes to use production tabs to give the info, while OGN would actually click on things themselves. To give an example, OGN ob would actually go through which barracks have the tech lab add-on and click on the EBay upgrading. This obviously is not necessary in the sense that they HAVE to click on them. But rather it puts the emphasis on such things to the viewer. I personally prefer this. But obviously for some this may feel redundant or take away from watching other things. And yes, sometimes the OGN observer will purposely hide certain things to give an air of suspense in BW. I didn't notice much in the SC2 casts, but if some of you thought that. It probably was by design.

2. OGN style, which of course came from the old BW style of observing, cuts very fast. You see something, and 2 seconds later you see something else. There's constant switching among bases and armies. For those who never watched BW, this was actually necessary, because there are no tabs for BW and the observer has to catch everything. The downside of course is that you may not be able to keep up with the observer or simply prefer a slower style. Perhaps it's because I'm so used to American TV/cinema(very fast cutting of scenes, different POVs). But the slower pace of GSL, and even moreso foreign tournaments, make the game seem slower. Again, this is more a personal preference.

3. As others have also pointed out, the resolution and 4:3 ratio is more for TV and the low resolution of BW games. It's very possible this gets changed once Kespa switches to SC2 full-time.

4. And lastly, I am asking about PERSONAL PREFERENCE. We all have our own preferences. I don't want it to be about A is better than B, because top observers do catch most everything.

My only real issue with this is that GSL observers do click on things upgrading, or spells that have been researched for a specific unit. The production tabs may be there, yes, but Legend in particular makes sure to point things out with the mouse in case the people watching didn't quite catch it in the production tab.

Other than that though I haven't watched enough of OGN style observing to really comment on fast paced cuts, I may actually prefer that I can't really say. But at the moment I'd vote for GSL style just because I enjoy the production tabs and the units killed bars etc.
Long live the King of Wings
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 05:47:04
May 21 2012 05:46 GMT
#76
I don't think the OP did this thread justice. The OP fails to describe the differences among them. Some think it's just the observer it self but your talking more than that.
Someone call down the Thunder?
jubil
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States2602 Posts
May 21 2012 05:48 GMT
#77
st_legend in-game zoom is good, kespa doom-zoom on player face is good, foreign style screen-in-screen or nos replay or w/e is good too

I like them all ^_^
Marineking-Polt-Maru-Fantasy-Solar-Xenocider-Suppy fighting!
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
May 21 2012 05:49 GMT
#78
Guys, you gotta understand. Sc2 is 16:10 when BW is 4:3 (exept from kespa yesterday for unknown reason. )So no matter how many tabs and health bars, in sc2 you will see more.

Anyway, I love to actually understand what is going on in the game real time so i can make predictions of who is gona win with out "hurr durr 34 spines on the way but I didt know cos no production tab."
Also plaer face zooms dont help. I know that in none of the sports i watch, they never zoom into anyones face when there is still axtion going on.
rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
May 21 2012 05:50 GMT
#79
i prefer no information whatsoever. more drama
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-21 05:53:47
May 21 2012 05:52 GMT
#80
On May 21 2012 14:14 Anktious wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 21 2012 13:30 Kluey wrote:
The Kespa face zoom when someone big happens to me is amazing. It links the game with real world and makes it look like a sport. It's brilliant.



YES!! THIS EXACTLY!! I always loved watching BW especially during those critical moments when crazy stuff was going on that would make the players display some form of emotion (ggaemo, anyone?).

That and when they switch to the fpview of a player showing his mouse clicks and which hotkeys they're using and for what. The sc2 version of the fpview isn't as great as the real fpview has been for BW :/ Not trying tLast mlg arena the real fpv was used kinda nicely.o turn it into another SC2 vs BW argument, just mentioning the few things that sc2 event producers could improve upon.


edit fuck typing with phone.
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