EPTInterview with MLG Sundance on KeSPA and GSL - Page 7
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avc
121 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On May 21 2012 11:15 Insane wrote: KeSPA got its bad rep because they slavishly followed the rules with no room for adjustment. GOM went ahead and changed the rules in order to get their way. Would KeSPA have done the same? I don't know, but I'm not sure that they would've, given how they refused to change the rules for mass outcry over completely dumb disqualifications. And basically throwing a match is by the rules? Might as well make a rule that players are forbidden to shit in the booth before someone does it and you try to defend it. | ||
Insane
United States4991 Posts
On May 21 2012 11:51 Assirra wrote: And basically throwing a match is by the rules? Might as well make a rule that players are forbidden to shit in the booth before someone does it and you try to defend it. If you can't see the difference between probe rushing and shitting in the booth then I don't know what to tell you. There's no rule against not putting effort into a match, and KeSPA wasn't known for making up idiotic rulings on the spot; they were known for making idiotic rulings ahead of time and then sticking with them regardless of how much sense it would make to change the rules. Perhaps you lack experience with KeSPA, seeing as how you joined in 2010..? | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Make it happen. | ||
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
On May 21 2012 10:12 delo wrote: This agreement? I can't seem to find the part you're talking about and that's probably because it isn't there. You might be thinking of GOM's '2012 format change' justification /after/ the probe rush debacle, but that definitely wasn't in the original press release. sorry. I was actually referring to the mlg announcement which only stated that it was for the gsl 2011 season which was over by the time the mlg championships were. I was unaware that the gom announcement actually said something different. | ||
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On May 21 2012 11:32 avc wrote: I feel like over the next year or so more and more people will come to dislike MLG. Standard for MLG The past decade it seemed like everyone in the esports world hated/shitted on MLG, because they hosted consoles games and not PC, and yet PC leagues died out left and right while MLG survived. | ||
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Megabuster123
Canada1837 Posts
On May 17 2012 08:26 Embir wrote: What? It is a load of crap - the same corporationism and desire to total domination and monopol bullshit. I like decentralized structure of SC2 - that there are a lot of clans, communities and small tournaments. It is easy to arrange and do a tournament. In fact players can be very independent and still earn a solid amount of money. Of course it is not a good situation for big molochs like Kespa or MLG. Tournaments and players outside their structures make them earn less money. For example why should I pay for MLG Arena if there is probably a few more tournaments with probably evenly fun and dramatic matches - even if participants are not exactly on par. So yes, the current decentralized state of SC2 is the best state for me. What's best for large companies right now is what's best for the scene. When sc2 is something profitable, only then can we be picky and choosy with the way that it's run. Before that point, the only thing that matters is getting it to that point. | ||
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rasers
Sweden691 Posts
On May 21 2012 11:51 Assirra wrote: And basically throwing a match is by the rules? Might as well make a rule that players are forbidden to shit in the booth before someone does it and you try to defend it. well Kespa wouldnt even use a shit system that would allow 2 have matches that dont even matter anymore. so u can go balblbalbal would they have done it. cause it will never happen. | ||
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StreetWise
United States594 Posts
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jarf1337
United States146 Posts
On May 21 2012 13:13 StreetWise wrote: I think its good to have two large organizations in the Starcraft scene. Hopefully one day we will have the same synergy as the NFC, AFC in the NFL. I like the way you are thinking. I don't often realize that the NFL is a pair of conferences. | ||
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
nothing wrong with one unified main org however thats for team games starcraft 2 is more like MMA than basketball/soccer/football . In this scenario in real life we have a UFC monopoly with smaller orgs, and people like the system yes, however is it truly the best it could be? not really imo. the ufc got lucky , did the right thing, and now they get to be the monopoly and reap the rewards and get all the money being the main org entitles. Thats all MLG is trying to do, they are trying to get that money and be the main org just like UFC cant blame them. its the goal of a company, period. they would be retarded to not have that goal. but is the monopoly style really the most entertaining? i dunno. Many would say "look at kespa 2004-2008 and SC2 in 2011 and ask yourself which is more entertaining. obviously SC2 because we got to have more leagues, and the entire world participating instead of just korea" however i will defend broodwar/kespa here and say no. Thats not true at all. Anyone could have been like idra and got on a korean progame team, they just werent skilled enough. and the REASON there wasnt worldwide competition is because THERE SIMPLY WAS NOT THE VIEWER DEMAND for the esport product. Starcraft 2 sparked viewer demand for the esport product because it was easier on the eyes to watch and globally more people were just interested in playing it and competing because it was a new game. But the system itself compared between KESPA (monopoly) and 2011 sc2 (free market) isnt a good comparison because kespa did what it could with the global demand that existed at the time. Sc2 would have been exatly like kespa (only korea, nothing else) if put in the same situation it had nothing to do with the monopoly style really, anyone could host their BW tournaments it just had zero viewers so its either up to us as fans to demand and work to create something different, or free market principles will take over and likely MLG will be the UFC of starcraft 2 (or any 1vs1 esport) actually scratch that, i forgot about fighter games like street fighter. MLG doesnt control that, no one does really there are currently massive IPL like street fighter tournaments and events without any "ufc" type of monopoly and honestly yeah, i can really look at the current street fighter scene and say the current system i think thats definitely more entertaining than one main UFC-like org controlling it all so well see i guess we as fans need to try to prevent that UFC-like org from coming alive. but alas, it is the nature of the beast and free market principles. i dont think we can stop it | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
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baby elephant
273 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On May 21 2012 17:46 baby elephant wrote: sundance is a dana white wannabe haha, I was thinking exactly the same! | ||
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Naphal
Germany2099 Posts
ed: and ESL ofc | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
On May 21 2012 17:35 Primadog wrote: In what textbook is a monopoly the sole possible endgame in a free market? i guess its just my own assumptions but its happened every time it can in human history. humans seek to have the power so in every system where wealth is generated such as a free market (or socialism where the state gets all the wealth) eventually there will rise one entity that dominates the others and is top dog and gets to have a monopoly. take the UFC and MMA for example, microsoft/apple and operating systems (i consider microsoft and apple to be a single entity now. so its a single monopoly), NFL and football, NBA and basketball. its just inevitable that this will happen in a free market because eventually one entity grows more power than the others and dominates the others the difference is in socialism the state decides who gets to have the monopoly and that monopoly usually fails and collapses, and in a free market system the most ruthless and intelligent company gets to have the monopoly which usually turns a profit | ||
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Eisregen
Germany967 Posts
On May 21 2012 18:03 roymarthyup wrote: i guess its just my own assumptions but its happened every time it can in human history. humans seek to have the power so in every system where wealth is generated such as a free market (or socialism where the state gets all the wealth) eventually there will rise one entity that dominates the others and is top dog and gets to have a monopoly. take the UFC and MMA for example, microsoft/apple and operating systems (i consider microsoft and apple to be a single entity now. so its a single monopoly), NFL and football, NBA and basketball. its just inevitable that this will happen in a free market because eventually one entity grows more power than the others and dominates the others the difference is in socialism the state decides who gets to have the monopoly and that monopoly usually fails and collapses, and in a free market system the most ruthless and intelligent company gets to have the monopoly which usually turns a profit Holy moly... Depends on the market itself if a monopoly, a duopoly or other x-poly will arise. You will never have many Entities offering big airliners (you in fact have mostly 2, Boeing and Airbus), but you will have many entities offering food, or fastfood. As a rule of thumb, the more (longterm) cost intense the market, the less entities will try to compete. But well, I personally dont see much positive in Kespa transferring into SC2. They are adding more of a restriction to SC2 imo and it will hurt SC2 (with its amazing tournament structure). | ||
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farnham
1378 Posts
On May 21 2012 11:57 Insane wrote: If you can't see the difference between probe rushing and shitting in the booth then I don't know what to tell you. There's no rule against not putting effort into a match, and KeSPA wasn't known for making up idiotic rulings on the spot; they were known for making idiotic rulings ahead of time and then sticking with them regardless of how much sense it would make to change the rules. Perhaps you lack experience with KeSPA, seeing as how you joined in 2010..? is this still in discussion? in a tournament the willingness to win of the participants is precondition to the whole model either written or not | ||
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On May 21 2012 17:55 Naphal wrote: i like how he will try to include Dreamhack and IEM, so some BW pros for europe as well =) ed: and ESL ofc always had the impression that ESL is a part of IEM in some form. | ||
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. I don't know if KeSPA will work out the greatest or not, but I'm willing to see them give it a shot for SC2, considering what GOM pulled with that.
