|
[QUOTE]On May 21 2012 03:11 mprs wrote:
[QUOTE]On May 17 2012 08:46 densha wrote:
Did Sundance just say that GSL is losing Up and Down players to MLG? Would any Korean team really let their players miss out on a chance at Code S just for a few thousand dollars?
In general I am really uncomfortable with Sundance/Kespa having so much power. I really want the BW pros playing SC2 but at the same time I'm so happy with the current scene. I really don't get why Kespa would even need to make such a big commitment to MLG... aren't they big enough to act on their own without needing to trust in such a young, inexperienced CEO?[/QUOTE]
Suppose there were two equal-sized, equal-skilled hockey leagues in the same area/country. What would you prefer: only one of them be seeded into international events/have syndicated broadcast/be considered "legitimate" or have both of them merge under joint-management. I think we all know that inevitably KeSPA will be the head of all leagues in Korea, but GOM deserves say and representation.
|
You saw what that got me last time. It got me Naniwa not getting what he had earned, and I'm not going to do that again.
I wonder how Kespa would have reacted to Naniwa's probe rush 
Probably the same way if not an even harsher penalty.
|
I honestly can't believe Sundance has the gall to criticize GOM about the Code S seed thing when the GSL partnership was pretty much the whole reason that MLG had the success that it did last year. After the epic fail of MLG Dallas, GSL brought in the talent that guaranteed exciting games. Let's face it, there are only a few foreigners that can compete with even a marginal Code A player.
The business of SC2 is still in it's infancy. Month after month we see tournaments like Lonestar Clash and Iron Squid try new, creative things that advance the scene far more than another PPV that only a few thousand people watch. If tournament organizers have to kiss the ring of somebody who's shown himself to be rather capricious and grudge-prone to get access to a large chunk of the player-base, then I truly fear that we'll see far fewer people willing take chances on something new.
|
On May 21 2012 07:52 Naftali wrote:
I honestly can't believe Sundance has the gall to criticize GOM about the Code S seed thing when the GSL partnership was pretty much the whole reason that MLG had the success that it did last year. After the epic fail of MLG Dallas, GSL brought in the talent that guaranteed exciting games. Let's face it, there are only a few foreigners that can compete with even a marginal Code A player.
The business of SC2 is still in it's infancy. Month after month we see tournaments like Lonestar Clash and Iron Squid try new, creative things that advance the scene far more than another PPV that only a few thousand people watch. If tournament organizers have to kiss the ring of somebody who's shown himself to be rather capricious and grudge-prone to get access to a large chunk of the player-base, then I truly fear that we'll see far fewer people willing take chances on something new.
The 'gall'? Seriously? MLG cut a deal in which the LXP granted a code S seed to the top placing finisher at MLG events who didn't already have one - Naniwa earned that seed and GOM decided to not honor that deal after the probe rush incident. GOM is /not/ - and should not be - above criticism. The fact that MLG benefited from having the LXP because of Korean players coming over does not mean that SD shouldn't be able to make a fairly tame comment about the impoetus for exclusivity with KeSPA.
|
Will not work anyway.
Only a question of time, until kespa players see that kespa and mlg and who else gets money for them playing somewhere else.
They will find a not kesp team and make more for them self.
This is not possible if the monopole is established already (kespa bw) but its way to late for them to control the sc2 market now...
See it from the eyes of the other tournaments.
Would you pay kespa and mlg, you direct concurrent, for players?
If you do so now, they get more power and want more money every time.
|
"we've got Anaheim coming up here in a couple weeks and they made this behind-the-scenes announcement that Up & Down matches would be at the same time"
That statement is not true. Up & Down matches May 21st-25th, MLG Anaheim June 8th-10th. Sundance should apologise for that incorrect accusation.
What happened to part 2 of the interview btw?
|
On May 21 2012 09:06 Aetherial wrote:
"we've got Anaheim coming up here in a couple weeks and they made this behind-the-scenes announcement that Up & Down matches would be at the same time"
That statement is not true, Up & Down matches May 21 to May 25, MLG Anaheim June 8th-10th. Sundance should apologise for that.
What happened to part 2 of the interview btw?
For all we know, GOM could have originally planned to go from the Code S Finals to the first round of new GSTL season, and then to the Up & Down matches...which would have placed U&D on June 4th-8th, conflicting with Anaheim. There is not enough publicly available info on the situation to confirm or disprove Sundance's statement. All we have is the actual U&D schedule, which AFAIK didn't come out until last week, and the GSTL schedule that was announced a couple of weeks ago. It's quite possible that the "behind the scenes" stuff SD is claiming happened before that.
|
On May 21 2012 08:30 delo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 07:52 Naftali wrote:
I honestly can't believe Sundance has the gall to criticize GOM about the Code S seed thing when the GSL partnership was pretty much the whole reason that MLG had the success that it did last year. After the epic fail of MLG Dallas, GSL brought in the talent that guaranteed exciting games. Let's face it, there are only a few foreigners that can compete with even a marginal Code A player.
The business of SC2 is still in it's infancy. Month after month we see tournaments like Lonestar Clash and Iron Squid try new, creative things that advance the scene far more than another PPV that only a few thousand people watch. If tournament organizers have to kiss the ring of somebody who's shown himself to be rather capricious and grudge-prone to get access to a large chunk of the player-base, then I truly fear that we'll see far fewer people willing take chances on something new. The 'gall'? Seriously? MLG cut a deal in which the LXP granted a code S seed to the top placing finisher at MLG events who didn't already have one - Naniwa earned that seed and GOM decided to not honor that deal after the probe rush incident. GOM is /not/ - and should not be - above criticism. The fact that MLG benefited from having the LXP because of Korean players coming over does not mean that SD shouldn't be able to make a fairly tame comment about the impoetus for exclusivity with KeSPA.
did you even read the original agreement between mlg and gom? it stated that it was for the year for gsl events technically the official year for the gsl was over by that time so the original agreement had already been fufilled.
|
On May 21 2012 09:19 jobber123rd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 09:06 Aetherial wrote:
"we've got Anaheim coming up here in a couple weeks and they made this behind-the-scenes announcement that Up & Down matches would be at the same time"
That statement is not true, Up & Down matches May 21 to May 25, MLG Anaheim June 8th-10th. Sundance should apologise for that.
What happened to part 2 of the interview btw? For all we know, GOM could have originally planned to go from the Code S Finals to the first round of new GSTL season, and then to the Up & Down matches...which would have placed U&D on June 4th-8th, conflicting with Anaheim. There is not enough publicly available info on the situation to confirm or disprove Sundance's statement. All we have is the actual U&D schedule, which AFAIK didn't come out until last week, and the GSTL schedule that was announced a couple of weeks ago. It's quite possible that the "behind the scenes" stuff SD is claiming happened before that.
Right could, and there could be a flying spaghetti monster in the sky named Bob. Sundance is a CEO, he needs to talk using facts... which means evidence based. The evidence I see, and that is available to the public, shows his statement to be incorrect. If he makes a public statement like this, he needs to present the facts to the public. The real world, e.g. courts, are based in the world of facts and not rumours.
|
On May 21 2012 09:27 karis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 08:30 delo wrote:On May 21 2012 07:52 Naftali wrote:
I honestly can't believe Sundance has the gall to criticize GOM about the Code S seed thing when the GSL partnership was pretty much the whole reason that MLG had the success that it did last year. After the epic fail of MLG Dallas, GSL brought in the talent that guaranteed exciting games. Let's face it, there are only a few foreigners that can compete with even a marginal Code A player.
The business of SC2 is still in it's infancy. Month after month we see tournaments like Lonestar Clash and Iron Squid try new, creative things that advance the scene far more than another PPV that only a few thousand people watch. If tournament organizers have to kiss the ring of somebody who's shown himself to be rather capricious and grudge-prone to get access to a large chunk of the player-base, then I truly fear that we'll see far fewer people willing take chances on something new. The 'gall'? Seriously? MLG cut a deal in which the LXP granted a code S seed to the top placing finisher at MLG events who didn't already have one - Naniwa earned that seed and GOM decided to not honor that deal after the probe rush incident. GOM is /not/ - and should not be - above criticism. The fact that MLG benefited from having the LXP because of Korean players coming over does not mean that SD shouldn't be able to make a fairly tame comment about the impoetus for exclusivity with KeSPA. did you even read the original agreement between mlg and gom? it stated that it was for the year for gsl events technically the official year for the gsl was over by that time so the original agreement had already been fufilled.
This agreement?
At every 2011 Pro Circuit Live Competition after MLG Columbus, GSL placement will occur as follows:
Code S status will be awarded to the highest placing player, regardless of country of origin, who doesn't already have Code S status.
I can't seem to find the part you're talking about and that's probably because it isn't there. You might be thinking of GOM's '2012 format change' justification /after/ the probe rush debacle, but that definitely wasn't in the original press release.
|
this is not good. look at BW, only worked for Koreans, everyone else got excluded. now look at SC2, foreigners (and koreans who dont live in Korea) are winning stuff occasionally and beating koreans constantly, the way SC2 was heading is the correct way of making an eSport GOOD
|
Sundance can say what he wants about his desire to create a global international scene, but the fact he rejects gom and ipl is very stupid in my opinion, and the reasons he says are really weird (Naniwa finally had his seed and just because gom had an arrangement with IPL, it means MLG should be rival with GOM, lol ?)
I'm very supportive of Gom for everything they have done for SC2 in Korea, and for me it is by far the best league. It is too bad that MLG does want exclusivity bullshit and criticize gom.
In fact, i take the decision to never buy a MLG pass in reaction of this (and to watch free restreams of arena lol), and to buy GSL passes to support the best tournament in the world
Edit : I'm really surprised that this news is old for 4 days, and there is only 6 pages of discussion, because this is huge , and the consequences for the developement of sc2 scene are very important. Maybe it's the title, not enough provocative. A "Kespa-MLG exclusivity" would have drawn a lot more of attention for sure
|
I really don't like the thought of an organization telling teams that they're not allowed to compete outside of their events... I really hope this MLG-KeSPA exclusivity doesn't lead to this, I really, really hope not, because by the way everyone talks of KeSPA, they sound like they're incredibly totalitarian and I'd like to see my favorite players go to many different events, and not just the same two or three that are sanctioned by MLG-KeSPA.
|
United States4991 Posts
It's good to see Sundance come out in support of Naniwa and call GOM on that bullshit  . I don't know if KeSPA will work out the greatest or not, but I'm willing to see them give it a shot for SC2, considering what GOM pulled with that.
|
On May 21 2012 10:15 SkullZ9 wrote:
Sundance can say what he wants about his desire to create a global international scene, but the fact he rejects gom and ipl is very stupid in my opinion, and the reasons he says are really weird (Naniwa finally had his seed and just because gom had an arrangement with IPL, it means MLG should be rival with GOM, lol ?)
I'm very supportive of Gom for everything they have done for SC2 in Korea, and for me it is by far the best league. It is too bad that MLG does want exclusivity bullshit and criticize gom.
In fact, i take the decision to never buy a MLG pass in reaction of this (and to watch free restreams of arena lol), and to buy GSL passes to support the best tournament in the world
Edit : I'm really surprised that this news is old for 4 days, and there is only 6 pages of discussion, because this is huge , and the consequences for the developement of sc2 scene are very important. Maybe it's the title, not enough provocative. A "Kespa-MLG exclusivity" would have drawn a lot more of attention for sure
we already knew about the MLG Kespa exclusive deal before this Slasher interview came out...
|
On May 21 2012 10:15 SkullZ9 wrote:
Sundance can say what he wants about his desire to create a global international scene, but the fact he rejects gom and ipl is very stupid in my opinion, and the reasons he says are really weird (Naniwa finally had his seed and just because gom had an arrangement with IPL, it means MLG should be rival with GOM, lol ?)
I'm very supportive of Gom for everything they have done for SC2 in Korea, and for me it is by far the best league. It is too bad that MLG does want exclusivity bullshit and criticize gom.
In fact, i take the decision to never buy a MLG pass in reaction of this (and to watch free restreams of arena lol), and to buy GSL passes to support the best tournament in the world
Edit : I'm really surprised that this news is old for 4 days, and there is only 6 pages of discussion, because this is huge , and the consequences for the developement of sc2 scene are very important. Maybe it's the title, not enough provocative. A "Kespa-MLG exclusivity" would have drawn a lot more of attention for sure
Everyone knew about it already and some probably accepted that it wont really be that big a deal.
|
I always love reading Sundance's responses. Dude's sincere, and I tend to agree with him.
Definitely support MLG
|
On May 21 2012 02:20 Azarkon wrote:
Kespa said they wanted to work with GOM, but what does that involve beyond PR? Restricting players from participating in tournaments forces them to choose between one of two leagues and with Kespa's better sponsorship that's going to push GSL players to Kespa. Once they get the players, Kespa is then able to collective do whatever the f*ck they want and you're not going to be able to stop them. Kespa is very adept at boycotting whoever they don't see eye to eye with.
It begins.
I disagree. It's hard to tell at the moment.
Worse case scenerio, Blizzard comes to the rescue!
GOMTV will probably be what MBCGame was.
Then they'll host a Super Starleague where best teams from GOMTV team leagues and the best teams from Proleague will compete.
The winner gets to go to Disneyland.
On May 21 2012 10:40 Insane wrote:It's good to see Sundance come out in support of Naniwa and call GOM on that bullshit . I don't know if KeSPA will work out the greatest or not, but I'm willing to see them give it a shot for SC2, considering what GOM pulled with that.
I was someone who disagreed with GOM's decision, HOWEVER, after they gave Naniwa a seed eventually (this season), all is good now IMO.
Of course the problem comes with MLG and GOM relationship:
The MLG exchange program was an incentive for players to compete at MLG (rather than any other tournament). The prize was you could win a Code S Spot.
However GOMTV failed to honor that (though I don't blame GOM honestly since the Korean backlash to Naniwa probe rushing was huge. They "almost" had to do it, at least in terms of PR with Koreans).
MLG shouldn't blame GOM because of that.
In a way, it was no one's fault... except the people who complained about it in the first place.... (maybe).
|
On May 21 2012 10:40 Insane wrote:It's good to see Sundance come out in support of Naniwa and call GOM on that bullshit . I don't know if KeSPA will work out the greatest or not, but I'm willing to see them give it a shot for SC2, considering what GOM pulled with that.
If you think Kespa wouldn't have done the same you are quite frankly crazy. Hell it probably be way worse.
Remember, this is the same organisation that disqualified a player for typing ppp wrong...
|
United States4991 Posts
On May 21 2012 11:00 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 10:40 Insane wrote:It's good to see Sundance come out in support of Naniwa and call GOM on that bullshit . I don't know if KeSPA will work out the greatest or not, but I'm willing to see them give it a shot for SC2, considering what GOM pulled with that. If you think Kespa wouldn't have done the same you are quite frankly crazy. Hell it probably be way worse. Remember, this is the same organisation that disqualified a player for typing ppp wrong...
KeSPA got its bad rep because they slavishly followed the rules with no room for adjustment. GOM went ahead and changed the rules in order to get their way.
Would KeSPA have done the same? I don't know, but I'm not sure that they would've, given how they refused to change the rules for mass outcry over completely dumb disqualifications.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
