|
On May 12 2012 10:35 mTwTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 10:20 Ryze wrote:
How many queens are we talking about here?
A zerg player going mass queens blindly would have a really weak mid game especially if they delayed gas because of it, i see no way I could pressure an early third from protoss if I opted to make 8 queens in the early game and delay all of my gases until the 7 or 8 minute mark
queens also have poor dps in the first place and it is even worse vs armor, which all protoss units have, plus they take up alot of supply which would be bad for your overall army comp in the midgame as well
unless its a relatively small map any zerg player going mass queens should have no way of being aggressive until hive, which should be exploitable for the protoss player id imagine 4-5, if the protoss goes for a non gas fast 3rd base build u can run them over with a ling roach baneling timing push(on 3 hatchs without lair, u have to take 4 gases asap once u scout it) and if they do a standard early 3rd im sure that u can still maxout on roachs at 11-12minutes while having an even stronger econ
You can't max earlier than 12 min with 5 queens unless you make them late, but that defeats the purpose of making them anyways. I think if zerg scouts that 4 gate pressure off of FFE they should have that option to completely shut it down anyways. zvp, even before this patch, has revolved so heavily around scouting that if zerg scouts exactly what the protoss is doing they have a very high chance of winning. I personally wish zvp wasn't about toss hiding all their shit and zerg scouting it or guessing what to do but I'm not sure how blizzard could change this. Also, if the zerg blindly makes 5 queens and you go for a fast third the roach max will be delayed enough that you should be able to hold it for sure.
|
On May 13 2012 05:11 Aunvilgod wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 05:06 ChosenSC2 wrote:
at least they did away with the 50 energy thing, that woulda been hellllllllla imba. But the overlord + queen range definitely makes it almost impossible for P / T to harass Z early now. I did switch to Z because of the changes, with instant results, already have a higher win % on ladder and not even good with them yet. You aren´t serious, are you? I mean if 5 zealots walk into your third with only 1 queen the two additional shots won´t change a whole lot i believe.
Um well if a toss is FIVE zealot rushing you early in the game and u don't see it coming, I promise you aren't above Silver. I mean ya, you can come on here and post comments that are hard counters to anything... Ya the 2 range thing doesn't make Queens rape hard counters that you don't scout, but it does make the soft counters / standard play a shit ton easier.
|
The poll on the frontpage is stupid. I think it's gamebreaking for TvZ but I have no clue about PvZ.
It's impossible to harass queens and if there are 2 extraqueens its impossible to deny creepspread because i just cant kill like 4 tumors without losing 2 hellions which just isnt worth it. Also I need to stay somewhat far away from the creep to not get arbitrage queendamage in which means there is no way of denying 3rd. I resort to marauder-hellion allins until this is fixed/someone comes up with an effective idea.
|
I think a lot of people are blowing this out of the water... From my perspective this game can be quite uncertain, and I think that the majority of people will agree on this. I am all for switching timings, healths, ranges, damages around; the result should most likely be a new metagame. Most Zergs did not complain about the Protoss Immortal gaining +1 range, because the balance was "intended" for pvt.
I think protoss need to stop your crying.
You learn very little from winning compared to losing (please debate me on this)
Maybe if you want to go air, you won't send your very first air unit across the map ( imagine if zerg did that. Let me just send 3 mutalisks to your base, then continue to rally, and then complain about how theres nothing I can do)
|
On May 12 2012 10:27 awu25 wrote:
I'm disappointed that a progamer is already complaining after the patch has been out for less than a week. I'm sure the korean progamers are working hard to find a workaround this while I see foreigners just throw up their hands and say queens are OP instead of playing the game
Hes discussing the changes, working out things and putting down his thoughts in the forum topic. Discussing the changes and what it means for his match up is the first step to dealing with the patch change. He is and has obviously played with the patch or he wouldn't have anything to talk about.
You don't think Koreans get mad when the game is changed? Most pros unless there is a serious problem would rather the game be left around for them to work at it then blizzard change things and possibly make hours of work irrelevant.
|
I am sorry, but I believe I said this 2 years ago when seeing the actual game design of zerg, but everyone replied that I have no idea what I am talking about. If the Zerg cannot put any pressure back on his opponent because of the design of the race, it is crystal clear that over time, people will find ways to abuse the zerg to kingdom come. All sorts of gimmicks have been developped to fuck up the zerg early game by the two other races and most of them are insta-wins by the T or P if the Z does not respond perfectly.
Now, does it surprise you that, after all these tricks have been discovered, Blizzard are buffing the defensive capabilities of the Zerg? In the current state of the race, in order to do smth, they must be a freaking impregnable fortress to whitstand all that harrass in order to have a balanced game. Hence all the buffs to defenses and the nerfs to the more efficient ways of attacking (Reapers, Bunkers, Blink, Stim, etc).
If the game were better designed and the Zerg had offensive potential in the early game, you would see a lot of different things, but imo, as long as the game is as it is right now, I would expect even more buffs to zerg in order to make them even more rock solid in the early-mid game.
|
On May 12 2012 07:49 BlueStar wrote:
Mass queens are comming back :|
and i'm psyched :D
|
queens are pure defensive units, so if you scout a 4+ queen build, just cut corners a go for heavy macro. eco wise a P can be on par in economy using chrono and early expansions np. P and T need to play more reactively, just executing a prepared harrass-into-timing-push-build will not work any more.
|
On May 13 2012 14:38 ChosenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2012 05:11 Aunvilgod wrote:On May 13 2012 05:06 ChosenSC2 wrote:
at least they did away with the 50 energy thing, that woulda been hellllllllla imba. But the overlord + queen range definitely makes it almost impossible for P / T to harass Z early now. I did switch to Z because of the changes, with instant results, already have a higher win % on ladder and not even good with them yet. You aren´t serious, are you? I mean if 5 zealots walk into your third with only 1 queen the two additional shots won´t change a whole lot i believe. Um well if a toss is FIVE zealot rushing you early in the game and u don't see it coming, I promise you aren't above Silver. I mean ya, you can come on here and post comments that are hard counters to anything... Ya the 2 range thing doesn't make Queens rape hard counters that you don't scout, but it does make the soft counters / standard play a shit ton easier.
4gate +1 zealots after FFE arrive with 5 zealots. even above silver :-P
every P who complains about extra queens shutting down pressure should watch DRG/Stephano etc. in a standard game and watch their minerals. there is just NO WAY to get 2-3 extra queens without delaying gas and thats just not worth it since delaying gas means later ling- and roachspeed so you just die to 2 base all ins or cant pressure fast 3rds.
|
ZvP is the least affecyed match up from the queen buff
|
The range buff is only for ground ! This has nothing to do with stargate openings.This buff doesn't change her damage.I don't even know how a 3 to 5 anti-ground range buff can kill any early pressures from T and P. It is highly unlikely.
|
it seems like all protoss will start playing like hasu obs from now on...
|
qq harder.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
so queen does not even take production food count???? daaaaang
|
|
|
On May 14 2012 04:27 vervejl wrote:
so queen does not even take production food count???? daaaaang
What are you talking about?
|
On May 14 2012 04:41 drbrown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 04:27 vervejl wrote:
so queen does not even take production food count???? daaaaang What are you talking about?
think he means they dont interfere with production because you make them in hatcheries and not larvae idk
|
[QUOTE]On May 14 2012 04:41 drbrown wrote:
[QUOTE]On May 14 2012 04:27 vervejl wrote:
so queen does not even take production food count???? daaaaang[/QUOTE]
i'm being sarcastic =P such a strong buff for queens, maybe thats what they should do next (no food count) =D
such a strong unit. mana caster, healer, larva inject, creep maker, 175 health. non armored unit... phew that was a mouthful
|
Screw it, I will be slaying demons and saving sanctuary for the rest of my days.
Blizzard will be busy making irrelevant buffs to zerg units whilst protoss players faceroll terran players with 40 APM and I could no longer care less. Terrible game is terrible.
User was warned for this post
|
On May 13 2012 08:04 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 10:35 mTwTT1 wrote:On May 12 2012 10:20 Ryze wrote:
How many queens are we talking about here?
A zerg player going mass queens blindly would have a really weak mid game especially if they delayed gas because of it, i see no way I could pressure an early third from protoss if I opted to make 8 queens in the early game and delay all of my gases until the 7 or 8 minute mark
queens also have poor dps in the first place and it is even worse vs armor, which all protoss units have, plus they take up alot of supply which would be bad for your overall army comp in the midgame as well
unless its a relatively small map any zerg player going mass queens should have no way of being aggressive until hive, which should be exploitable for the protoss player id imagine 4-5, if the protoss goes for a non gas fast 3rd base build u can run them over with a ling roach baneling timing push(on 3 hatchs without lair, u have to take 4 gases asap once u scout it) and if they do a standard early 3rd im sure that u can still maxout on roachs at 11-12minutes while having an even stronger econ You can't max earlier than 12 min with 5 queens unless you make them late, but that defeats the purpose of making them anyways. I think if zerg scouts that 4 gate pressure off of FFE they should have that option to completely shut it down anyways. zvp, even before this patch, has revolved so heavily around scouting that if zerg scouts exactly what the protoss is doing they have a very high chance of winning. I personally wish zvp wasn't about toss hiding all their shit and zerg scouting it or guessing what to do but I'm not sure how blizzard could change this. Also, if the zerg blindly makes 5 queens and you go for a fast third the roach max will be delayed enough that you should be able to hold it for sure.
5 Queens would not slow down your max. They cost no larvae at all. Assumming that they are making 3 normally an extra 2 would be 300 minerals and no larvae.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
