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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
On May 11 2012 02:52 FairForever wrote: The 12-observer timing push will come a couple of minutes earlier though, so I can see his frustration. Why do Protoss need observers to push against Terran? | ||
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Baptista
Poland141 Posts
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On May 11 2012 01:51 Zephirdd wrote: what does banshees have to do with anything here? Only the anti-ground range was changes, anti-air is the same. Maybe he was refering to overlord's suicides being able to spot tech-ed starports more efficiently ? | ||
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Mehukannu
Finland421 Posts
On May 11 2012 02:46 SpeCtor wrote: Because the only buff toss got was a 10 second build buff for the observer. Balance whine = ban He got banned because he had a long list of low quality posts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=32696¤tpage=1255#25082 | ||
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tdt
United States3179 Posts
On May 11 2012 02:54 Baptista wrote: lol "bunker was not changed :D". but why obs build time is decreased? Earlier scouting. | ||
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oopsyoucantmove
United States39 Posts
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LordSubtle
Canada25 Posts
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incontrolshaircut
United States13 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On May 11 2012 02:11 zJayy962 wrote: Actually they still could do so until speed finishes upgrading with marines. 5 - 6 marines will always be cost effective against slow lings. That's if you want to risk maintaining a rally outside their base. If the Zerg decides to churn out slowlings, they can easily overwhelm your marines. And it's a terrible trade for Terran, even if lings were forced, because then Zerg knows Terran cannot move out anytime soon, and can freely drone and take a third, whereas they can't (as easily) if you retreat. When you only have 5-6 marines you can push creep out against the marines no problem unless it's a map like Cloud Kingdom, where you still can easily by creeping along the top ledges. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On May 11 2012 02:20 Zelniq wrote: If you'e worried that the queen change will make hellions a bad opening, read this. Nothing but a bunch of theorycraft. Basically nothing about the matchup changes except queen range will make 2rax and hellion run-bys easier to defend, creep easier to protect, and overlords better at scouting the tech of the Terran. Now, each of those sounds unimportant on their own. Combine them all together though, and it makes both early pressure harder to pull off, droning much easier (since you can scout more easily whether you need to pump drones or units), and creep spread much easier (since queens can push the hellions back now), meaning it makes the early game harder for Terran, and sets up an even STRONGER midgame for Zerg. These are facts, and are not up for debate. The only thing that we have yet to see are order of degrees. Maybe these changes will only affect things slightly (which is my guess, maybe skimping on 1 or 2 queens and throwing out a handful of extra drones), or maybe hellions are going to become near ineffective (with well placed queens being able to completely zone out hellions now, making run-bys much less effective). What I do know for sure is that it's going to take more than 3-4 days of people screwing around on a custom map to figure these things out. Didn't we use to have a PTR for these kinds of things? | ||
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mophideus
United States7 Posts
On May 11 2012 02:54 Integra wrote: Why do Protoss need observers to push against Terran? lol.. he make joke silly  | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:07 ArcticFox wrote: Nothing but a bunch of theorycraft. Basically nothing about the matchup changes except queen range will make 2rax and hellion run-bys easier to defend, creep easier to protect, and overlords better at scouting the tech of the Terran. Now, each of those sounds unimportant on their own. Combine them all together though, and it makes both early pressure harder to pull off, droning much easier (since you can scout more easily whether you need to pump drones or units), and creep spread much easier (since queens can push the hellions back now), meaning it makes the early game harder for Terran, and sets up an even STRONGER midgame for Zerg. These are facts, and are not up for debate. The only thing that we have yet to see are order of degrees. Maybe these changes will only affect things slightly (which is my guess, maybe skimping on 1 or 2 queens and throwing out a handful of extra drones), or maybe hellions are going to become near ineffective (with well placed queens being able to completely zone out hellions now, making run-bys much less effective). What I do know for sure is that it's going to take more than 3-4 days of people screwing around on a custom map to figure these things out. Didn't we use to have a PTR for these kinds of things? Your post, summed up. 1) You've theorycrafted. 2) And now I'm theorycrafting. But my theorycraft is FACT and is not up for debate. Though to be fair what you said is fact (except some of the "much"). That the changes make it harder for terran and easier for Zerg. Decreasing a ling's attack cooldown by 0.00001 would also make it harder for terran and easier for Zerg. Doesn't mean it's gamebreaking. | ||
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Riff-
Canada39 Posts
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:11 FairForever wrote: Your post, summed up. 1) You've theorycrafted. 2) And now I'm theorycrafting. But my theorycraft is FACT and is not up for debate. Though to be fair what you said is fact (except some of the "much"). That the changes make it harder for terran and easier for Zerg. Decreasing a ling's attack cooldown by 0.00001 would also make it harder for terran and easier for Zerg. Doesn't mean it's gamebreaking. May I point you to my last paragraph where I said that we only know that it made things stronger for Zerg and weaker for Terran, but we don't know by how much yet? Try not to cherrypick. I never said the sky was falling, I said that it might fall but we don't know yet until it goes live, because it hasn't been tested enough. | ||
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incontrolshaircut
United States13 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:14 RiffWraith wrote: any ETA on NA server revival? ;; someone on bnet forums said 30minutes-2hrs longer O.o | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:14 ArcticFox wrote: May I point you to my last paragraph where I said that we only know that it made things stronger for Zerg and weaker for Terran, but we don't know by how much yet? Try not to cherrypick. I never said the sky was falling, I said that it might fall but we don't know yet until it goes live, because it hasn't been tested enough. The buff of overlord speed and queen range is going to lead to a large number of fast-lair 2base slow overlord queen drop strategies. But yes I totally understand, when I found out immortals were getting +1 range it was clear that ZvP was going to become broken. | ||
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oopsyoucantmove
United States39 Posts
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On May 11 2012 03:19 oopsyoucantmove wrote: NA server is up Just watch as the top 20 spots in GM get filled by Zerg in the next six hours... | ||
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cydial
United States750 Posts
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