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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
The only concern on the validity of my claim is whether Ovies really can make it to critical points on the map in time to spot these kinds of attacks. Judging from the fact that I am currently just a few seconds off, the new speedier ovies should definitely meet this requirement. I stand by my claim and it will come to pass in the next month or two. Even making a handful of lings will set you so far behind, you've already lost. | ||
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slane04
Canada23 Posts
I understand it's VERY difficult to balance late gale compositions without making huge changes. I doubt anything will happen until HotS. Overlord buff, check queen buff, ? observer buff, ? I guess protoss needs to know what all-in is coming sooner... | ||
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Sabu113
United States11077 Posts
On May 11 2012 01:15 The KY wrote: Wait obs are bad now? Dafuq. You appear assume that their 'job' is to scout the opponent's base and nothing more, I'd vehemently disagree. In BW, where by the way methods of detection were largely identical to SC2, people just made observers and placed them around the map. Imagine if, for example, today in GSL + Show Spoiler + Parting vs MVP Metropolis, if Parting just sits an obs in the air between his base and MVP's he does not die to that doom drop. And if MVP somehow knows there's an obs there he has to make a viking and then scan to kill it. Not worth 75 gas? I'd pay 100. To be fair, you're not spending gas like Toss do unlock the ability to go out on the map. Also parting saw the drop coming in. He had an obs by the front of his base. He was trying to ambush the drop ratehr than deny it... when there wasn't enough energy to make the feedbacks worthwhile he just died. That said I'm pretty happy not having to buy a frickin observatory first. If this change can narrow down the 1-1-1 roulette it'll be a welcome one. | ||
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bigbadgreen
United States142 Posts
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Shafanhow
United States47 Posts
On May 11 2012 01:20 lamiller wrote: They are probably going to detach the queens arms LOL Boomerang arms! | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
It seems to me the obs change will help PvT early/mid game. I'd be more okay with it if late game heavily favoring Protoss wasn't completely ignored. Why are they claiming that the balance is fine because of T's early game advantage, but then nerfing T's early game advantage without buffing T's late game? My best guess is that they can't figure out what to do, and the blame unfortunately lies with warp gate, imo. I thought they wanted to let things sit for a long time before changing them, but they nerfed Thors after ThorZaIN beat MC--terrible inconsistency but not on the level of Bioware's madness...yet. And it may kill ling/bling zvz, which is actually quite interesting compared to mass roach/infestor or roach/hydra. I'm all for giving Z and P better units that make micro more appreciable, however, the phoenix change, for example, certainly didn't do that. It made phoenix vs muta micro relatively easy. Currently, most Z and P units make terran micro more impressive than their own races'. | ||
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sLBoGoRoH
Netherlands126 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On May 10 2012 19:28 StarBrift wrote: Any terran that thinks it was fair when they could park 2-4 helions outside creep and completely stop creep spread until they were chased away by units needs a wake up call. Now you will need to commit to atleast 6 helinons and you will actually have to have multitasking to deny creep tumors. 6 helions will still be able to dive into queen attack range and pick up building tumors easily. The only trade off is that you actually have to lose like 20% hp on one of your helions to do it and the fact that you can't spend 200 minerals to nullify creep spread until 8 minutes into the game. Except you can't stop creep with 2-4 hellions, you can only contain it, temporarily at that. You can still spread creep on almost all maps via putting tumors on the higher ground, such as Antiga, Cloud Kingdom, Shakuras, Ohana, and actually I'm pretty sure almost every map out there. And if you have ling speed, hellions aren't going to do shit. Have you ever seen what it's like for a Terran who tries a runby and loses their first 4 hellions, even if they get say 5-6 drones? You have creep spread at their natural like 4 minutes later. | ||
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Font
170 Posts
This costs nothing to terran, they will bring back the racks and salvage the bunker. Terrran is guaranteed to do damage to zerg`s economy with that opening wether its the zerg pulling drones or you getting the hatchery. By making the range bigger for queens it makes it easier for them to stop that bunker from getting up or those marines just killing you straight up. Starcraft isnt a game meant to end in 5 mins but mid to late game. | ||
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mahO
France274 Posts
There is no best race overall, there is only different difficulty level to each race, which makes some race way better at say platinum level than they are at GSL level. This game is balanced around the pro scene, get over it, we still see terrans advancing in major tournaments but yeah, terran is hard to play with 60 apm, switch or get better, but SC2 wont ever be a noob friendly game, hell, even at my mmr (mid master EU), I recognize that terran in many cases require more skill and multitasking than Z or P, but if changing that would mean killing the esport scene, fuck no. Plus, like I said earlier to a T whining on ladder, you still got easy as fuck strategies that are effective and unexplored (mech requires half a brain to play...), terrans just got the habit of sticking to one major build per match up, while P or Z spent the 2 years of SC2 changing metagame, your turn now. Also, to be honest, I dont find the helion opening good compared to 1 raxx expand TvZ, map control was good when zergs didnt know how to adapt, but now that every single zerg played around 200 games vs helion opening, it's not as essential as it was before. | ||
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treekiller
United States236 Posts
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
nice one! | ||
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Lovely_US
United States94 Posts
On May 11 2012 01:37 FabledIntegral wrote: Except you can't stop creep with 2-4 hellions, you can only contain it, temporarily at that. You can still spread creep on almost all maps via putting tumors on the higher ground, such as Antiga, Cloud Kingdom, Shakuras, Ohana, and actually I'm pretty sure almost every map out there. And if you have ling speed, hellions aren't going to do shit. Have you ever seen what it's like for a Terran who tries a runby and loses their first 4 hellions, even if they get say 5-6 drones? You have creep spread at their natural like 4 minutes later. Well Terrans who try a runby with 4 hellions made a very bad decision, thats all. There have been many times where the first 4 hellions kill more drones but the creep spread is still very far. The second you lose those 4 hellions you lose map control: thats just that. | ||
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FairForever
Canada2392 Posts
On May 11 2012 01:26 Jermstuddog wrote: I've been playing with the spanishiwa style again lately anyway and my biggest problem is always extra lings sneaking by my ovies. Even builds like 10 pool are just a non-issue so long as I see them coming. The only concern on the validity of my claim is whether Ovies really can make it to critical points on the map in time to spot these kinds of attacks. Judging from the fact that I am currently just a few seconds off, the new speedier ovies should definitely meet this requirement. I stand by my claim and it will come to pass in the next month or two. Even making a handful of lings will set you so far behind, you've already lost. I'll believe it when I see it. I call BS on this. All-in builds in ZvZ are uncommon at high levels anyway because they're not that bad to scout. It's really a tug of war game, trying to drone up while forcing lings out of your opponent, before the tech switches. Banelings are still definitely usable in ZvZ, I don't like them that much but I don't expect to see them less... | ||
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FATJESUSONABIKE
184 Posts
good way to go, dumbf*cks :-) User was warned for this post | ||
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scypio
Poland2127 Posts
On May 11 2012 01:28 bigbadgreen wrote: Could the queen range buff be to help against 2 rax? Queens would be in range faster to help deal damage or repel scvs. I think that 2 rax gives terran such an upper hand when pulled off correctly. With only a small investment in resources you protect your base fully as well as the zerg player having to play perfectly. It also doesn't hurt the economy of terran at all while impacting zerg quite a bit with drone pulls being the only way to defend it. Now i think queens will be able to attack from high ground on some maps and be able to assist in the attack. I feel that almost every plat+ (and a good bunch of gold too) zerg on EU server knows how to handle 2rax. Overlord at the nat, pull 4-6 drones if scouted, attack the scv and the marine, build 1 spine ASAP if it's 11/11. Problem solved. 2rax has been dead for quite a while. The queen buff will help to deal with it, but it's like digging a body out of its grave just to punch it in the face  | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
On May 11 2012 01:27 Sabu113 wrote: To be fair, you're not spending gas like Toss do unlock the ability to go out on the map. Also parting saw the drop coming in. He had an obs by the front of his base. He was trying to ambush the drop ratehr than deny it... when there wasn't enough energy to make the feedbacks worthwhile he just died. That said I'm pretty happy not having to buy a frickin observatory first. If this change can narrow down the 1-1-1 roulette it'll be a welcome one. He saw it coming, then leave, and when it came back his stalkers were way out of position again and every single unit gets out of the medivacs. It's only one example, but I guarantee you if Parting had an obs out there that simply does not happen and he's still in that game. | ||
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weedhydra
28 Posts
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Amaterasu1234
United States317 Posts
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mahO
France274 Posts
On May 11 2012 01:37 FabledIntegral wrote: Except you can't stop creep with 2-4 hellions, you can only contain it, temporarily at that. You can still spread creep on almost all maps via putting tumors on the higher ground, such as Antiga, Cloud Kingdom, Shakuras, Ohana, and actually I'm pretty sure almost every map out there. And if you have ling speed, hellions aren't going to do shit. Have you ever seen what it's like for a Terran who tries a runby and loses their first 4 hellions, even if they get say 5-6 drones? You have creep spread at their natural like 4 minutes later. Ahah, gotta love the idiotic statements, yes, mass speedling can chase and kill 4 hellions, but guess what, thats why it's called MASS, because it's uneffective, and you need to devote 12 larvae and 600 minerals to chase 400 minerals of units, and you're not even sure to loose them without killing more than 1 if the terran micros well, and about creep spread, if the zerg invests 300 in creep queens and spend a major amount of apm to this spread (yes it does, people tend to think it's automatic) he should be rewarded, also, nobody prevents terran from getting one raven for PDD (it's actually really good vs corruptors when broodlords are out) and detection. Oh, and scans. Not so long ago hellions dealt way more damage, and I didnt see you complain about it, even if it was unbalanced, same thing when speed reapers, bunkers quicker, tanks 50 damage on bio (lol) etc. The game is evolving, get over it | ||
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