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On May 11 2012 00:14 TechSc2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 00:09 Heweree wrote:
Just ridiculous. I mean the obs, best scouting unit in the game really needed a buff?
And the range of queens, nice no deny of creep with hellions now. And no more reaper opening as well. Obs is the worst scouting unit in the game, it's expensive gas wise and it forces a robo, so in order to get our precious scouting unit that's slow as hell, we need to invest 200/175. If anything Terrans scan needs to cost gas as well, not only energy. you get a freaking FREE ticket out of tricky situations when you don't have any turrets up against DT's or burrowed zerg shenanigans
listen to this dude, he got it all figured out... haha next insightful comment may be about chronoboost being UP and upgrades for toss being too expensive  this warrior of fierce balance talk made my day haha
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On May 11 2012 00:14 TechSc2 wrote:
Obs is the worst scouting unit in the game, it's expensive gas wise and it forces a robo, so in order to get our precious scouting unit that's slow as hell, we need to invest 200/175. If anything Terrans scan needs to cost gas as well, not only energy. you get a freaking FREE ticket out of tricky situations when you don't have any turrets up against DT's or burrowed zerg shenanigans
regardless of what the person you quoted said, the things you listed do not justify why it needs a decrease in build time.
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So much QQ on what is imba and what is not. This says it all --> "You aren't employed at Blizzard. You do not have the tools they use to judge balance. You haven't researched balance for hours at a time using statistics. You haven't reviewed all major tournament results and reasons for loss. You don't have any statistics of whom is new to the game, and who has bought a second account. You haven't researched the variations of lower-league and how many people off-race/main race. You do not have access to Time of Victory statistics. You haven't shared ideas with the top professional players in the world and engaged in thorough and thoughtful exchange. You haven't designed the game nor know what the original dynamics were suppose to be. You have not spoken to the designers on a panel and discussed balance as open-minded and professionally as possible. You perceive the game in your narrowed-perspective of reference, perceiving it only as only one individual can and formulating opinions, thoughts and ideas only there-after."
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Would that mean, change from roaches to queens in early game z v t? back to Spanishiwa yeahhhhhhh
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I don't think this will have as much of an impact as people are talking about. What's to stop Terran from just playing greedy in the early game too?
I'm happy that D3 comes out soon, so I don't really care about these changes. I stopped playing actively after protoss upgrades got way cheaper and these patches make sure that I will never go back to ladder as Terran lol.
If that's true then how do you know how these changes affect the game enough to judge them?
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On May 11 2012 00:37 Huragius wrote:
I'm happy that D3 comes out soon, so I don't really care about these changes. I stopped playing actively after protoss upgrades got way cheaper and these patches make sure that I will never go back to ladder as Terran lol.
Thanks for letting us know?
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On May 11 2012 00:06 mythandier wrote:To all of you who are ragging on people for complaining about the Zerg changes please consider the following: I read through all 45 pages of this thread and here is a list of pro / semi-pro / high-level players that have spoken out to some degree about the change (I apologize for any names I may have omitted): + Show Spoiler +
- dde
- avilo
- quantic.illusion
- jinro
- t.o.p.
- kawaiirice
- beastyqt
- orb
- vpfaith
- idra
- 4k.warden
- thisisjimmy
- tqwannabe
If you really think that you know better than this group of people, then I'll just assume you're a top-tier korean pro.
People shouldn't complain about the changes yet, regardless. At one point Idra said the infestor buffs would mean very little in ZvT because mutas are still necessary vs Terran - we've seen how that turned out. He also said that roach play wouldn't be standard in ZvZ because of roaches' armored status vs infestors - as far as I know roaches are still standard.
Maybe we should wait for a few weeks before making these decisions.
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On May 10 2012 23:00 goswser wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 22:35 Zarahtra wrote:
And I was hoping blizzard would actually stop with this stupidity that is this new patch before releasing it. This seems so out of touch with how the game is developing that it is very dishearthening(to the point of me very possibly just quit playing) These reactions always amaze me. Quit playing? Really? I think its you who is out of touch with how the game is developing. Queens with 5 range might not have been the right change, but zerg needs something.
With the list of pros(and even zergs) agreeing with my experience and opinion, I doubt it. Zerg might need something, that I'd say is up for debate, but Blizzard killing the most used builds terran has "just because" really isn't. If there was certain imbalance, or it was in any way to powerful, I'd not find it bad at all.
About quitting, Blizzard just keeps dissappointing me on multiple fronts. There is quite obviously these very questionable(at best) balance changes with no true reasoning behind them. While it is very nice that Blizzard has finally agreed with the community about the features missing(that after 2 years they are adding), HotS seems quite stupid to me atm and Blizzards response to TvP lategame has really shook my faith in their ability to balance the game. + Show Spoiler +Furtheremore for Blizzard as a whole, I'm not binding to many hopes to D3, since what I've seen it is just... Yer... And then WoW's newest expansion seems quite horrible at best.
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While all the balance whining is going on, you guys missed the two best comments in this thread. Here they are, for those who missed them:
On May 10 2012 21:49 Maekchu wrote:Show nested quote +-Revert Queen buff.
-Give Marines a 50/50/60 range upgrade in the tech lab. Standard range is now 4, upgraded range is 5. (just like concussive)
-Zealots HP reduced to 80, Shields increased to 70. Weaker vs MM and EMP in lategame.
-Remove Battlecruiser energy, make Yamato a cooldown spell.
-Battlecruiserg AtG attack increased from 6 damage per 0.16 to 8 damage per 0.20, making it stronger vs armored targets (Capital ships dealing 0 damage per shot against upgraded Guardian Shielded Zealots - retarded)
-Thor get's a new spell: Irradiate. 100 energy. Strike Cannons also cost 100 energy.
-Stalkers now upgrade with +1 (+1 armore) instead of just +1, helps with Roach flooding in PvZ and makes Stalkers more viable overal.
- Collosus movespeed reduced to 1.80 from 2.25. Makes it feel like a siege unit instead of an OP stalker
- Corruptor have 1 base armor instead of 2. (Taken from the EU page)Come on people... Stop nerd raging so much. It's not healthy for you :D
On May 10 2012 22:42 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:
Balance aside, the fact that a queen can equal a machine gun's range just by stretching its leg is stupidly funny.
Anyways, the changes should be interesting. Interested to see how the queen range change works out. Interesting fact: queens have the same dps as roaches, except they do less damage on units with armor.
Edit: The poster above talked about those wanting to quit after this patch. I think they said the same thing after every patch, and are still playing now lol.
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The Zerg and ESPECIALLY the toss buffs are incredibly needless, and meanwhile Terran receives nothing to help out in late game TvP. Guess this is blizzard telling us we have to buy HotS if we want to play a balanced game.
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Time to put my 2 cents in... First of all Buff on Obs was completely unnecessary because of the simple fact they can have an infinitely cloaked unit that can tell the protoss exactly what there opponent is doing at all times and detect. Also this makes cloak banshee's against protoss even harder because they can get a obs out with chrono in what 20 seconds now? Reduces the damage a cloak banshee can do so much making the opener a little bit weaker than it already has been.
The Overlord buff was necessary. Zergs have a hard time getting that 6:20 scout that every other race has the ability of. But I believe the queen buff was a bit excessive just because 2 range increase is a bit much. Remember when immortals got buffed and every zerg threw there arms in the air. Now immortals out range roaches by 2 and absolutely destroy roaches. This is the same thing but a kick in the nuts to Terran. The reactor hellion opener is completely necessary for a Terran to keep the zerg from absolutely dominating on larger maps. It is very hard to compete with Zerg on maps like Entombed and Tal Darim Altar beacuse their units are very fast and terrans mobility against Zerg is not that great. But what every Zerg is crying about is bunker rushes. Seriously? They dont even work anymore. Maybe once in a blue moon. Not to mention all you have to do in order to stop a bunker rush is put a overlord over your nat and your fine.
I think Blizzard did a good job recognizing the overlord speed but poor decision on giving an unnecessary buff to queens and obs.
The reason most Terran's seem like they are whining because over the past few patches we've gotten nothing but nerfs. Protoss nor Zerg can say that. Terrans have the highest skill ceiling but with that there is so much more multitasking with Terran and unless you are MKP or MvP you are having a hard time with engagements. I would Zerg has the hardest time picking an engagement area because against terran they have to catch that army unseiged if they want to engage. Protoss has the easiest by far because they know where there army is and they have forcefields to trap units and force other races into engaging
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On May 11 2012 00:44 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:00 goswser wrote:On May 10 2012 22:35 Zarahtra wrote:
And I was hoping blizzard would actually stop with this stupidity that is this new patch before releasing it. This seems so out of touch with how the game is developing that it is very dishearthening(to the point of me very possibly just quit playing) These reactions always amaze me. Quit playing? Really? I think its you who is out of touch with how the game is developing. Queens with 5 range might not have been the right change, but zerg needs something. With the list of pros(and even zergs) agreeing with my experience and opinion, I doubt it. Zerg might need something, that I'd say is up for debate, but Blizzard killing the most used builds terran has "just because" really isn't. If there was certain imbalance, or it was in any way to powerful, I'd not find it bad at all. About quitting, Blizzard just keeps dissappointing me on multiple fronts. There is quite obviously these very questionable(at best) balance changes with no true reasoning behind them. While it is very nice that Blizzard has finally agreed with the community about the features missing(that after 2 years they are adding), HotS seems quite stupid to me atm and Blizzards response to TvP lategame has really shook my faith in their ability to balance the game. + Show Spoiler +Furtheremore for Blizzard as a whole, I'm not binding to many hopes to D3, since what I've seen it is just... Yer... And then WoW's newest expansion seems quite horrible at best. So yeah, as a long time fan of Blizzard, my faith for their ability to keep producing legendary games(as they are known for, having made BW, D2 and WoW) has decreased considerably as of late.
goswser is better than half the players you mentioned on your list. EDIT: Sorry, not your list. The list someone else brought up.
Stop whining, play the game. If Zerg is too strong Blizzard will adjust afterwards.
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What?! Why not release through a patch?! It will fix all the maphacking!!
It almost makes me think that Blizzard is secretly supporting maphacking, which is becoming a huge problem at high masters! Since maphacking, there are a lot more players playing on ladder than the previous seasons, so is Blizzard's thought process that if they patch the maphack they'll lose players? this is ridiculous!
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On May 10 2012 11:52 Finnz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 11:49 Alasper wrote:
I love watching terran whine about a zerg buff. Sucks when you don't get the good stuff right? Since when did we ever get given "good stuff" that is relevant to patches.
You didnt, your race was officially over powered for months at release of this game. (And when I say officially, you still see terrans in the pro scene after 3678 nerf patches)
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Queen range increase is utter crap. Should be 3 to 4.
No hope for TvP either.
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Will this break replay files?
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On May 10 2012 11:24 Danyl wrote:
Yay now hellions can't deny creep at all early game. Bye bye reactor hellion openings.
Queen buff is dumb.
exactly! i think obs buff is secret 1/1/1 nerf...
double terran nerf 
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So every ones talking about denying hellion/reaper with the new queen range but what I really wanna know is can this stop the 3 pylon ramp block/cannon now? It seems like it could.
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Has blizzard even stated a reason as to why they buffed the queen's range?
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EPT
