|
On May 10 2012 23:01 striderxxx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 22:53 Zowon wrote:On May 10 2012 22:46 striderxxx wrote:
The bunker needs to be 100% NOT SALVAGABLE!. No other unit can be scrapped for minerals back, this is so unfair. There should be an element of cost and risk for throwing up a bunker like all other race defensive buildings. You need to remember that the bunker is not a unit, it's a defensive structure that terran needs in any form of fast expand without dying. Your point it taken, but we've all seen Terrans use offensive bunkers in rushes and contains. My contention is that bunkers used in these instances should come at a greater risk than just losing 25% of the bunker value. It's not like any other race can salvage a finished offensive pylon for a 75% refund.
I don't really have a problem with salvage, I think it's fine that Terran's can salvage bunkers, it's not really a broken ability, although it is extremely useful.
The problem with salvage is that you can do it while your bunker is surrounded by enemy units, with none of your own anywhere near it and still get the minerals back.
The logical solution to salvaging would be to make the minerals fall on the ground once the operation is completed. If the Terran has army nearby they can just pick them up and all is well. If the bunker is surrounded by enemy units and they're miles away, they shouldn't really be allowed to salvage 100% safely with instant mineral teleportation.
No doubt silly people in this thread will find a flaw with this logical and obvious solution, since this place seems to be full of nonsense complaints about a simple and quite necessary set of minor balance changes.
|
meh. it doesn't make thinks easier for low level terrans :/ but also not that much harder... i guess
|
On May 10 2012 11:24 Blazinghand wrote:I have to admit, this made me laugh. I would have liked a completely unnecessary bunker buff though 
I have to say that the turret bunkers from the singleplayer were incredibly cool looking, would love to see them implemented somehow.
|
is there going to be any valid semi offensive opening in tvz ? (not troll, serious question)
|
On May 10 2012 23:15 avc wrote:
The logical solution to salvaging would be to make the minerals fall on the ground once the operation is completed. If the Terran has army nearby they can just pick them up and all is well. If the bunker is surrounded by enemy units and they're miles away, they shouldn't really be allowed to salvage 100% safely with instant mineral teleportation.
No doubt silly people in this thread will find a flaw with this logical and obvious solution, since this place seems to be full of nonsense complaints about a simple and quite necessary set of minor balance changes.
If you don't like bunker rushes, why don't you just say so...
|
On May 10 2012 11:53 LikeAG6 wrote:
It actually annoys me reading all of the posts that are along the lines of;
"queen range is stupid, nOw we can't make hellions"
Or
"this is such a nerf to bunker/reaper rushes"
This just in, no fucking shit, part of the reason blizzard did this is because bunker rushes are ridiculous to begin with.
Oh and I for one would be super pleased if terrans though hellions are useless, that way I won't have to deal with how ridiculously cost efficient they are/how much damage they can deal.
How many zergs actually loses to freaking bunker rushes now. Come on... They either lose because they messed up on micro badly or they got way too greedy. Learn to play the game
|
On May 10 2012 23:15 avc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:01 striderxxx wrote:On May 10 2012 22:53 Zowon wrote:On May 10 2012 22:46 striderxxx wrote:
The bunker needs to be 100% NOT SALVAGABLE!. No other unit can be scrapped for minerals back, this is so unfair. There should be an element of cost and risk for throwing up a bunker like all other race defensive buildings. You need to remember that the bunker is not a unit, it's a defensive structure that terran needs in any form of fast expand without dying. Your point it taken, but we've all seen Terrans use offensive bunkers in rushes and contains. My contention is that bunkers used in these instances should come at a greater risk than just losing 25% of the bunker value. It's not like any other race can salvage a finished offensive pylon for a 75% refund. I don't really have a problem with salvage, I think it's fine that Terran's can salvage bunkers, it's not really a broken ability, although it is extremely useful. The problem with salvage is that you can do it while your bunker is surrounded by enemy units, with none of your own anywhere near it and still get the minerals back. The logical solution to salvaging would be to make the minerals fall on the ground once the operation is completed. If the Terran has army nearby they can just pick them up and all is well. If the bunker is surrounded by enemy units and they're miles away, they shouldn't really be allowed to salvage 100% safely with instant mineral teleportation. No doubt silly people in this thread will find a flaw with this logical and obvious solution, since this place seems to be full of nonsense complaints about a simple and quite necessary set of minor balance changes.
1. how is your "absolutely logical" solution logical? what salvages the bunker and how does metal turn into minerals by itself?
2. Bunker salvage isn't the only ilogical thing in sc right now. we don't need it logical. salvage is good as it is. otherwise. why do marines weapons shoot faster , if the marines take drugs??
why don't we wait first and see. eventhough i believe that creepsread could be done without the new update. however terrans cannot survive without a bunker. zerg have spines that they can reposition and that even do damage by themselves and protoss doesn't really need photon cannons (their defensive structure, because of ffs and so on. Terran has only the bunker and it's not movable and you have to have units. (zerg does not have to, not protoss)
|
On May 10 2012 23:30 NoDDiE wrote:
is there going to be any valid semi offensive opening in tvz ? (not troll, serious question)
I'm sure you guys will think of something. Keep in mind, most Zergs will only have two or three queens early on (unless they're actively spreading creep TLO-style), so this buff won't really change many units in any given early game. The queen will probably only get an extra attack or two off before getting sniped if it's not well-defended as always, and it's still just as slow as it's always been.
Don't get me wrong, I also think that the queen buff isn't necessary (and actually does more harm than good), and so I'm hoping that if it really does somehow break the early game (i.e. literally zero pressure can be applied to Zerg early on, so they can just insta-70 drone without a care in the world), then the change gets reverted.
|
Hi there.i want to adress to Ts in servers who read this.. lets make protest.Lets hear us terrans and understand for our discagreement with their vision of the game.I offer terrans who dont like blizz`s current state of the game stop playing ladder,just stop let nap zergs drones for free protoss staying at home w8ing for 200 we will just w8 the for game to change couse right now is rediculus.I cant believe I even pay for it. i pay for service where somebody decides that retard nerd who can make drones and cast storms will have advantage over me after game pass 15 minutes and will tell me "here u are suppose to loose, here u can win but.. w8 a minute will make them even more durable so ur chances for win are less,but keep trying dont worry they can win with 60 apm couse they dont need micro and decision making they need to stay safe untill they get max,but u must be proud to call yourself terran couse its hardest and most successful race,but its successful couse 50% of try hard gamers are terrans and skill cap is still not reached,and rest races reached their skill cap long time ago.All they hope for is lucky fungals,storms,and not dieing before maxed out.U cant espect toss or zerg to be more accomplished than terran it should never happend u cant espect a race`s only micro to be 1a1a1a1a1a 1T click or 1a1a1a1a1a1a 2t.Everyout come of the every single game depends on terran actions,every terran above master is 5 times better gamer than toss and zerg at his level u cant compare decisions multitasking and micro of master terran and above to other 2,so terrans just need to stop playing ladder for a while just make some form of protest we let ghost nerf to pass so ez now late game zerg army is absurdly strong and hard to counter dont let more jokes with our hard work.
|
Okay, so give terrans static defense that don't use any units and take away salvage. Fair?
|
On May 10 2012 23:39 cactusjack914 wrote:
Okay, so give terrans static defense that don't use any units and take away salvage. Fair?
you mean a planetary fortress?
|
It's sad that Blizzard have patched the game so much. It only goes to show how poorly they think of their own balancing ability.
|
On May 10 2012 23:40 anxiouspanda wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 23:39 cactusjack914 wrote:
Okay, so give terrans static defense that don't use any units and take away salvage. Fair? you mean a planetary fortress?
Haha ^^
Terrans shouldn't complain about static defense or defense in general, they have the strongest defense of all races. Being able to lift buildings helps not losing bases even when they're compromised. Floating hatcheries is my dream.
|
Odd, I thought Blizz always put updates out on Tuesdays.
Bunker is not changed
LOL
|
I just wished they would rebuff the reaper. I mean, the 5range thing was a huge suggestion during the reaper era, but they just didn't listen. Now that queens have 5range, speed reapers would be a cool thing to have imo.
|
On May 10 2012 23:39 cactusjack914 wrote:
Okay, so give terrans static defense that don't use any units and take away salvage. Fair?
I think giving bunkers an anti-ground turret attack (upgradable from ebay after factory so it could be not used as part of a 2rax) would actually be a fair change as a Z. PFs are fine for the lategame in terms of protecting actual CC's but Terran having nothing to slow down the damage of warpins or counter attacks besides playing defensively and sacrificing part of their army by putting them into bunkers seems a bit unfair. Static defense is so important in the lategame as it allows you to hold off small drops or runby (mass cannons from p & mass spines / spores from Z) while your army is out on the field.
|
I'm glad that Blizzard is finally starting to fix up early game Zerg...
Scouting is easier and the queen buff will help Zergs against Terran hellion/bunk play...
|
I would love to see ChroNIckaL's solution come to pass. Terrans just stop playing. I would love to see that, I hate terrans and thus not encountering them on ladder would make my life a lot happier.
On the bunker front, they should not be salvageable. Someone mentioned the pylons around the map. Well when you're toss and you use a warp in pylon that gets scouted can you salvage it ? Can you get your money back ? There's a reason toss just doesn't drop pylons everywhere, because they would lose the money if not used and scouted. Terrans can just place a bunker to contain or cheese and if that doesn't work just retreat with the surviving marines and get money back from bunker. Sure spines and cannons attack by themselves, well then get rid of salvage and instead give the bunker a damn gun so you don't need to put units in it.
The obs thing could be a problem zvp now, but you can just make the evo a bit quicker to get a spore where toss is most likely to socut you with an obs rush and for tvp you have the free scouting scan to help you out.
Overload speed was necessary and only really top level zergs would be able to rescue a scouting overload anyways, most of us will still have to sacrifice it to marines, queen buff is not that life changing IMO since the queen still has the same health and still is super slow off creep so it might just help a bit more against hellions or to kite stalkers but I don't feel it was necessary either.
|
Damn that range increase on the queens... now my stalker pressure at the 4:21 mark is ruined.
speed reapers would be a cool thing to have imo
I don't get it.
|
On May 10 2012 23:03 Coolness53 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2012 11:33 Badfatpanda wrote:On May 10 2012 11:29 Blazinghand wrote:On May 10 2012 11:25 S_SienZ wrote:
Way to slap Terrans in the face. Terrans have historically had the most success at the professional level, and are generally regarded as the strongest race + Show Spoiler [GSL 2012 S2] +If you don't count the Ro4 results from this most recent GSL . The 5-range queen will be stronger against reapers and hellions, but won't be nearly as strong as the 50-energy queen. Overall, Blizzard made some relatively mild buffs to the non-terran races, and that's okay. Show me a game where professional level players have trouble, enough trouble dealing with a hellion opening when they're not being ridiculously fucking greedy. The way the maps are set up now queen no gas openings are having a resurgence ALREADY because it's such a good economical opening that completely shuts down any hellion harass. This is directed toward lower level play 100%. Ye, it won't be as strong as the 50-energy queen, but I can't even fathom how that made it to public testing to be honest lol. Nestea vs Keen...Lost to Blue Flame Hellions. Not saying Queens needed to be buff though. It will be interesting to see the Queen buff in effect. I wonder if this was due to ZvZ all in early game pressure not anti-hellions.
And I thought queens are supposed to be a macro mechanic unit, that injects larva, spreads creep, heals stuff and serves as an early game air defence. I was so dumb, but now I see that Blizzard wants to see queens as actual ground fighting units. Man someone should've told me earlier.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
