EPTCall to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 23
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
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mastergriggy
United States1312 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:19 ContrailNZ wrote: That is true, but I'm not talking about Zerg play overall. I am talking about the skill cap. Remember that guys like Stephano / DRG etc even state they practice very little. Protoss have basically maxed out timing attacks. The only reasons some are doing ok at times is they are catching Zerg out with mass sentry and getting into an awesome positioning where they can slice and dice zerg in a choke that needs little force fields (basically map helping). This means they are only fighting half a zerg army at a time so they can get efficiency. If Zerg catch them before they get in position they would get smashed, but Zerg are strong enough that they often dont even start army production until Protoss is on the way to them. DRG said he didnt practice much? And stephano said he only didnt practice much before... but now that hes taken breaks from university he has picked up practicing a lot. Also, protoss have a ton of early timing attacks that are really strong. MC dominated nestea's attempts at these early expand builds. | ||
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Arkansassy
358 Posts
- We aren’t making a change to affect this now, but it’s very near the top of our list of things we’re watching. Sorry, but haven't they "WATCHED" this long enough? Seriously. I think all Terrans should just switch races and let the Terran die. Blizzard is trying to kill them anyway - or so it seems. | ||
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Jisall
United States2054 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:00 dNa wrote: am i the only one who doesn't see what they changed on the new version of the map? is it specific spawns or something? User was warned for this post After reading threw the patch notes and the entire OP I read your comment not 20 seconds after and had myself a chuckle. On May 03 2012 14:09 Ribbon wrote: I don't know how Idra can see his screen behind the massive erection he must have. A buff to early game Zerg scouting is the buff he's wanted since beta. Queens popping with transfuse might be even more impactful than extra tumors. There's a lot of stuff Zerg macro openings are a little bit safer against, now. This thread is making me laugh pretty hard. As far as the project goes, I like the idea of testing out ideas on this. If blizzard pays attention they can see how the changes impact the game without having the huge backlash that accompanies a patch. On May 03 2012 14:21 mastergriggy wrote: Also, the reasoning given behind the observer decrease makes absolutely no sense either. I didn't even know there was an issue with that. The biggest issue i can see here is against cloak play. 1-1-1 might be less scary with an earlier obs. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5775 Posts
Also, energy being anywhere between 25 and 50 makes no sense from any perspective. Either change it to 50 or not at all. Edit: then again, ZvZ with a much earlier transfuse would be heaven (for those of us that like to open hatch first anyway). | ||
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][Primarch][
Sweden302 Posts
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rfoster
United States1005 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:05 Rassy wrote: Queen energy wont speed up a roach max ? You will still need 1 queen/hatchery and your injects are still limited by the hatchery timer. Not sure if queen will do much for creepspread. At first sight it does, since every queen starts now with an inject AND a tumor so no more waiting for 2nd or 3rd queen or skipping injects. But i thought that most pro zergs already skipped one of their early injects to place a tumor with their first queen because they dont have the monney at that time to use the larva, If this is the case then this update wont have much effect on the creepspread rate at all. Well you didnt think of the possibility of double creep tumor right off of the bat. It may not seem like much but two active creep tumors do so much more than one. I`m not sure of my opinion on the 50 energy.(If it is balanced or not) | ||
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KiLLJoy216
United States71 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:22 Arkansassy wrote: + We are closely watching TvP to see if the offensive capabilities of terran in the early/mid game becomes too much, or if late game strength of protoss becomes too much. - We aren’t making a change to affect this now, but it’s very near the top of our list of things we’re watching. Sorry, but haven't they "WATCHED" this long enough? Seriously. I think all Terrans should just switch races and let the Terran die. Blizzard is trying to kill them anyway - or so it seems. Very mature approach... What if Protoss took the same approach because Terran so imbalanced early/mid game PvT ? | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:19 ContrailNZ wrote: That is true, but I'm not talking about Zerg play overall. I am talking about the skill cap. Remember that guys like Stephano / DRG etc even state they practice very little. Protoss have basically maxed out timing attacks. The only reasons some are doing ok at times is they are catching Zerg out with mass sentry and getting into an awesome positioning where they can slice and dice zerg in a choke that needs little force fields (basically map helping). This means they are only fighting half a zerg army at a time so they can get efficiency. If Zerg catch them before they get in position they would get smashed, but Zerg are strong enough that they often dont even start army production until Protoss is on the way to them. its shit game design but forcefields exist and if protoss uses them well theyre ridiculously strong. i dont see how its not a comment on game balance if protosses win a lot of their games with it, short of saying we can no longer have maps with chokes. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:24 Sbrubbles wrote: I play Zerg and frankly think the queen change is too much. A solution that I find as much more reasonable is for hatches to get to make a single creep tumor 3 minutes after the game starts (for the main hatch) and 1 minutes after they are built (for subsequent hatches). Also, energy being anywhere between 25 and 50 makes no sense from any perspective. Either change it to 50 or not at all. Edit: then again, ZvZ with a much earlier transfuse would be heaven (for those of us that like to open hatch first anyway). Lol, I find your proposition much more gimmicky than an energy value between 25 and 50 :D | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
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Jono7272
United Kingdom6330 Posts
Terran's early/mid game gets so overestimated.. Protoss has just as good a variety of early and mid pushes. At least they are considering late game might be too much. Anyway, to the actual changes being considered, What the fuck is with the queen change? The obs change seems unnecessary. Maybe the overlord change would be good, seeing as how big the maps are now. But zergs often get full scouts with the current speed, pretty much always see the gases, and have great defensive capabilities anyway with Lava inject mechanics. I guess they will be able to confirm for sure the cloak banshee that is easily defended with good evo timing that they expect anyway after seeing the terran is on 1 base with 2 gas taken. | ||
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GohgamX
Canada1096 Posts
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CloudMage
Canada221 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:17 IdrA wrote: im just trying to figure out when i started complaining about vortex vs bl/infestor dynamics since they seem to have about a year and a half lag on pulling their heads out of their asses Yeah.... Im guessing that one won't be fixed until the departure of the mothership in HotS so don't bother trying to figure it out haha | ||
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][Primarch][
Sweden302 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:25 KiLLJoy216 wrote: Very mature approach... What if Protoss took the same approach because Terran so imbalanced early/mid game PvT ? Then Protoss players would be lying to themselves cause Protoss are super-strong during every phase of the game, though getting extremely imbalanced in the late-game. Protoss have the most ridiculous one base and two base timings in the game. | ||
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shockaslim
United States1104 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:25 KiLLJoy216 wrote: Very mature approach... What if Protoss took the same approach because Terran so imbalanced early/mid game PvT ? Oh here goes the myth that "Terran is imbalanced early/mid game PvT". Please show me the imbalances in the match up at these times where it makes the matchup INCREDIBLY difficult for Protoss? Please don't say being able to put on pressure so that Terran can secure a 3rd......thats not imbalance. | ||
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CloudMage
Canada221 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:30 ][Primarch][ wrote: Then Protoss players would be lying to themselves cause Protoss are super-strong during every phase of the game, though getting extremely imbalanced in the late-game. Protoss have the most ridiculous one base and two base timings in the game. User was warned for this post | ||
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KiLLJoy216
United States71 Posts
On May 03 2012 14:30 ][Primarch][ wrote: Then Protoss players would be lying to themselves cause Protoss are super-strong during every phase of the game, though getting extremely imbalanced in the late-game. Protoss have the most ridiculous one base and two base timings in the game. Huh? This guy must be a troll. Almost everyone agrees that in PvT Terran is favored early/mid game and Protoss is favored late game. Also.... LOL !!!! At your comment about timings. You seriously talking about timings in PvT ? Terran has the most timings and builds it is ridiculous. | ||
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Terrick
Denmark12 Posts
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