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On April 12 2012 03:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:11 densha wrote:
I'm concerned that the Viper's "blind" spell is pointless.
It would have been very helpful to break entrenched positions and to help Z engage Protoss armies. Now that it only works on bio units I don't see the point - wouldn't you rather have infestors against bio? Doesn't it make Terran bio somewhat... worthless? It's a mass optical flare right?
From my understanding, it was both sight and firing range. Optical Flare was just sight I think. If it is what I thought it to be, I don't really see that going into release. It makes any ranged unit that gets hit by it essentially useless, and Protoss needs that range to be able to fight Zerg.
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On April 12 2012 03:11 CajunMan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:10 TheKefka wrote:On April 12 2012 03:09 CajunMan wrote:Idk what the collossus QQ is about quit QQing if your bad. Its a good unit and I personally loved the idea from beta to now. It's one of the new units I thought was really great. I do think Protoss could benefit from a Dark Archon though  Colossus is not a good unit.Its the worst unit in sc2 right now bar none. Why? Seems to do what its intended and very well and can be very fragile by itself.
The colossus is a horrible sc2 units because its stacraft.You are supposed to do something with your units in stacraft.The colossus is just a giant siege unit that stands in the back and aoes shit into the ground.
The maximum amount of micro you can do with a colossus is if you move it back and forth or on and off clifs rofl.They are terrible for harass because they can't be built early because you don't have the eco to do it and if you built them off 2 base your going to get rolled by mass roaches in ZvP or marauders in TvP. and if not you just won with a allin that doesn't work since Ace won IEM with 2 base colossus rofl.They only really work as a unit off 3 base and in a death ball which is a terrible concept in the first place.
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On April 12 2012 03:15 Brainling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:12 BigBossX wrote:On April 12 2012 03:07 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2012 03:04 Gosi wrote:
It just feels like Dustin Browder is using the Starcraft franchise so he can play out his bad fantasies of game design and unit design/roles and actually have people playing it. All this mess just feels more like some kind of Starcraft/Red Alert/MOBA cluster fuck.
Units that are copies of BW units but still not the good BW unit.
More gimmicky stuff that suits more in Red Alert and MOBAs (anti air spider mine? some wacky ass missile that makes mech even worse in TvT, that hook on the viper that is stolen from Pudge from DotA, you just don't need any timing and skill to hit your target, the charge upgrade on Ultralisk that you can find in like any MOBA game).
Still no words on the Warpgate mechanic and the worst unit ever Colossus.
zzzzzzzzzzz
people like this are the reason Blizz is so silent about HoTS Well maybe if blizz were more open about HOTS and acknowledged some of the many issues people wouldn't be making posts like this? These posts exist for a reason dude ... I can't tell if you're serious or dumb. Blizzard has given us unprecedented vision in to the process of making HotS. We are getting basically pre-alpha updates and blogs from them, explaining things in great detail. News flash: You are not a game designer. You do not work for Blizzard. They are not entitled to give you more access than they are, which is way beyond what we normally get as gamers. Frankly, Blizzard could never include you at all in the process, and guess what? You'd still buy HotS. People like you just amaze me. A company gives you unprecedented access to their design process, and you complain about not having enough access and that they need to be more open.
I think you're honestly the one who is dumb. Nobody here is talking about access to the design process, the people complaining are saying the design ITSELF is stupid.
edit: You know that the people complaining right now would still be complaining if they learned about these units right before the beta come out right?
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So they're adding the defilier, lurker, carrier but changing the names of the units? got it.
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On April 12 2012 03:15 Brainling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:12 BigBossX wrote:On April 12 2012 03:07 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2012 03:04 Gosi wrote:
It just feels like Dustin Browder is using the Starcraft franchise so he can play out his bad fantasies of game design and unit design/roles and actually have people playing it. All this mess just feels more like some kind of Starcraft/Red Alert/MOBA cluster fuck.
Units that are copies of BW units but still not the good BW unit.
More gimmicky stuff that suits more in Red Alert and MOBAs (anti air spider mine? some wacky ass missile that makes mech even worse in TvT, that hook on the viper that is stolen from Pudge from DotA, you just don't need any timing and skill to hit your target, the charge upgrade on Ultralisk that you can find in like any MOBA game).
Still no words on the Warpgate mechanic and the worst unit ever Colossus.
zzzzzzzzzzz
people like this are the reason Blizz is so silent about HoTS Well maybe if blizz were more open about HOTS and acknowledged some of the many issues people wouldn't be making posts like this? These posts exist for a reason dude ... I can't tell if you're serious or dumb. Blizzard has given us unprecedented vision in to the process of making HotS. We are getting basically pre-alpha updates and blogs from them, explaining things in great detail. News flash: You are not a game designer. You do not work for Blizzard. They are not entitled to give you more access than they are, which is way beyond what we normally get as gamers. Frankly, Blizzard could never include you at all in the process, and guess what? You'd still buy HotS. People like you just amaze me. A company gives you unprecedented access to their design process, and you complain about not having enough access and that they need to be more open.
Your the one who didn't read the post I was responding to... so who is dumb? yeah you are ...
And i've already said I won't be buying HOTS, more or less information won't change that.
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I'm glad people are hating on the colossus. Both it and the thor need to taken out and shot and never spoken of again.
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I'm terrified they are going to add another long ranged, a-move dps unit to Protoss. That can float over the rest of the deathball.
I'm sure it could be balanced, but it will just make Protoss even more boring to watch in a matchup.
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On April 12 2012 03:13 Big-t wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 01:37 decaf wrote:
Being caught out of position is a good thing for esports, there have to be mistakes to be made. The recall must be cut. +1
Not too sure about that. When original BW was developed, the developers made the Recall function on the arbiter for defensive purposes, not offensive. Results = the pro players never used Arbiters and instead went for more Dragoon+Zealot+High Templar into Air transition (Carriers). When players like Nal_rA started using offensive recalls, it changed the PvT of BW forever.
I think defensive only recall is okay given how strong Protoss deathball is in this game. But I would also like to see recall as mid-game upgrade instead of being there every single time. It can serve 3 purposes: 1. Pull back army if things are about to go 'oh crap' (but I do agree with being caught out of position) 2. Pull back army to defend mass drop or nydus or something in that manner OR 3. Recall probes from one nexus to another to save all probes from getting wiped out.
On April 12 2012 03:21 murphs wrote:
I'm glad people are hating on the colossus. Both it and the thor need to taken out and shot and never spoken of again.
Sad part is, Protoss is balanced around Colossus.
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On April 12 2012 01:25 rift wrote:
I don't want "cool" stuff, I want a well-designed esport. Blizzard, please stop making units that are explicitly role-specific.
Swallow your pride and use the assistance of Kespa/progamers as was planned. IP rights dispute is over.
I agree 100%
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On April 12 2012 03:19 Rkie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 12 2012 03:11 densha wrote:
I'm concerned that the Viper's "blind" spell is pointless.
It would have been very helpful to break entrenched positions and to help Z engage Protoss armies. Now that it only works on bio units I don't see the point - wouldn't you rather have infestors against bio? Doesn't it make Terran bio somewhat... worthless? It's a mass optical flare right? From my understanding, it was both sight and firing range. Optical Flare was just sight I think. If it is what I thought it to be, I don't really see that going into release. It makes any ranged unit that gets hit by it essentially useless, and Protoss needs that range to be able to fight Zerg.
Mechanical units would not be affected from the description.
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yea A-move protoss has got to go, also, they REALLY need to fix b.net 0.2.
honestly, balance wise and unit introduction blizzard has always done *pretty well* in making games.
but that bnet UI on the other hand...
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On April 12 2012 03:20 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:11 CajunMan wrote:On April 12 2012 03:10 TheKefka wrote:On April 12 2012 03:09 CajunMan wrote:Idk what the collossus QQ is about quit QQing if your bad. Its a good unit and I personally loved the idea from beta to now. It's one of the new units I thought was really great. I do think Protoss could benefit from a Dark Archon though Colossus is not a good unit.Its the worst unit in sc2 right now bar none. Why? Seems to do what its intended and very well and can be very fragile by itself. The colossus is a horrible sc2 units because its stacraft.You are supposed to do something with your units in stacraft.The colossus is just a giant siege unit that stands in the back and aoes shit into the ground. The maximum amount of micro you can do with a colossus is if you move it back and forth or on and off clifs rofl.They are terrible for harass because they can't be built early because you don't have the eco to do it and if you built them off 2 base your going to get rolled by mass roaches in ZvP or marauders in TvP. and if not you just won with a allin that doesn't work since Ace won IEM with 2 base colossus rofl.They only really work as a unit off 3 base and in a death ball which is a terrible concept in the first place.
QQQQQQ if your having those probs getting better is always an option.
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On April 12 2012 03:21 BigBossX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:15 Brainling wrote:On April 12 2012 03:12 BigBossX wrote:On April 12 2012 03:07 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2012 03:04 Gosi wrote:
It just feels like Dustin Browder is using the Starcraft franchise so he can play out his bad fantasies of game design and unit design/roles and actually have people playing it. All this mess just feels more like some kind of Starcraft/Red Alert/MOBA cluster fuck.
Units that are copies of BW units but still not the good BW unit.
More gimmicky stuff that suits more in Red Alert and MOBAs (anti air spider mine? some wacky ass missile that makes mech even worse in TvT, that hook on the viper that is stolen from Pudge from DotA, you just don't need any timing and skill to hit your target, the charge upgrade on Ultralisk that you can find in like any MOBA game).
Still no words on the Warpgate mechanic and the worst unit ever Colossus.
zzzzzzzzzzz
people like this are the reason Blizz is so silent about HoTS Well maybe if blizz were more open about HOTS and acknowledged some of the many issues people wouldn't be making posts like this? These posts exist for a reason dude ... I can't tell if you're serious or dumb. Blizzard has given us unprecedented vision in to the process of making HotS. We are getting basically pre-alpha updates and blogs from them, explaining things in great detail. News flash: You are not a game designer. You do not work for Blizzard. They are not entitled to give you more access than they are, which is way beyond what we normally get as gamers. Frankly, Blizzard could never include you at all in the process, and guess what? You'd still buy HotS. People like you just amaze me. A company gives you unprecedented access to their design process, and you complain about not having enough access and that they need to be more open. Your the one who didn't read the post I was responding to... so who is dumb? yeah you are ... And i've already said I won't be buying HOTS, more or less information won't change that.
I don't care who you were responding to? I was responding to YOU, making comments about one of the most open development processes I've ever seen not being open.
And I'll bet money you buy HotS. You'll say you won't, because you want to be edgy and cool, but give it a month after release, when all your friends are playing it, and you can't play games with them because they are playing HotS. You'll slink away and buy a copy and just pretend you never said you won't. It's pretty much the standard internet hipster behavior, and it repeats itself like clockwork.
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It's annoying they aren't at least trying to develop and improve their ideas instead of scrapping everything, shredder looked like an interesting unit, perhaps just prevented from being loaded into a medivac, or given a much longer deployment time and it could be a better unit.
For protoss, I really don't like the idea of additional splash or 1-a units, since as a spectator I find watching protoss players the most boring thing ever, unless they're MC and they prefer doing very micro-intensive strategies. I think the oracle was a nice addition, but there should be more to it than clicking and denying mining.
For terran, I think the thor, like the ultralisk is too expensive and bulky to be used effectively as an anti-air unit to defend the mech style of play. I also think that mech is especially problematic against Zerg late-game deathballs with a heavy brood-lord/corrupter composition, as thors do not provide enough single-target DPS to effectively fight brood lords, and vikings cannot beat mass-corrupter as they are built too slowly and at best 2 at a time. I'd like to see a unit added to make meching against protoss and zerg late-game more viable, as both late-game options for zerg and protoss are far superior to mech due to a couple of simple flaws in it.
For zerg I think the units added were pretty good, I think the swarm host could have used a buff to the number of units summoned, however, and the viper-detection mechanic seemed a little tacky.
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Lol everyone is whining so hard about recall. Do you read the post... They are testing everything that they are implementing ("the shredder wasn't used the way we wanted it to"). If recall is OP they will know. This costs a lot of chronoboost and if you want to do it midgame that is A LOT of workers you neglected to have. Lategame it will be easier to recall (though still some nexii might not have it because of the way energy is used (all on 1 before starting the next nexus)), but you just have to account for that. Don't do a rediculous runby, do a medium sized runby or drop and bam that forces tons of units back at the base. Who cares if you didn't get too much done. It's a completely new element into the game. Forcing recalls would be good and you'd be able to see them recall. Maybe even stim and pick some units off before they are in a good position. But the point is that you can't just automatically say something needs to be taken out when you haven't even seen it. And like I previously stated. They will do enough extensive testing to know if it needs to be taken out before they release the game.
Also I'm stoked on the super long range Tempest. Now it's getting a carrier-like role!! Abusing cliffs like broodlords and owning. I wonder how far the range is. Sounds close to like tank range by the way they put it.
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It's kind of sad to see some people's over reactions. This change is good. They took out things that really didn't work AT ALL and changed some things around. They are still playing around with it. HoTS won't be out probably until early 2012 (given DIII and Pandas come out this year) So there will be plenty of time for them to change things. Plus even more things will be tweeked during beta. Have faith in them, they haven't really failed us yet.
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On April 12 2012 03:20 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:11 CajunMan wrote:On April 12 2012 03:10 TheKefka wrote:On April 12 2012 03:09 CajunMan wrote:Idk what the collossus QQ is about quit QQing if your bad. Its a good unit and I personally loved the idea from beta to now. It's one of the new units I thought was really great. I do think Protoss could benefit from a Dark Archon though Colossus is not a good unit.Its the worst unit in sc2 right now bar none. Why? Seems to do what its intended and very well and can be very fragile by itself. The colossus is a horrible sc2 units because its stacraft.You are supposed to do something with your units in stacraft.The colossus is just a giant siege unit that stands in the back and aoes shit into the ground. The maximum amount of micro you can do with a colossus is if you move it back and forth or on and off clifs rofl.They are terrible for harass because they can't be built early because you don't have the eco to do it and if you built them off 2 base your going to get rolled by mass roaches in ZvP or marauders in TvP. and if not you just won with a allin that doesn't work since Ace won IEM with 2 base colossus rofl.They only really work as a unit off 3 base and in a death ball which is a terrible concept in the first place.
It's far from the most microable unit in the game but nowhere near as bad as you make it sound, target firing clumps of units with your Colossi is far more effective than giving them free reign. There is also some positioning involved in making them as safe against Vikings and Corruptors as possible, pulling back injured ones, spreading them out in PvP.
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On April 12 2012 01:28 Derez wrote:
All these new gimmicky units are wonderful, but how about they spend some time on making TvP a match-up that goes beyond MMM? ;/
It does....
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On April 12 2012 03:22 supernovamaniac wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:13 Big-t wrote:On April 12 2012 01:37 decaf wrote:
Being caught out of position is a good thing for esports, there have to be mistakes to be made. The recall must be cut. +1 Not too sure about that. When original BW was developed, the developers made the Recall function on the arbiter for defensive purposes, not offensive. Results = the pro players never used Arbiters and instead went for more Dragoon+Zealot+High Templar into Air transition (Carriers). When players like Nal_rA started using offensive recalls, it changed the PvT of BW forever. I think defensive only recall is okay given how strong Protoss deathball is in this game. But I would also like to see recall as mid-game upgrade instead of being there every single time. It can serve 3 purposes: 1. Pull back army if things are about to go 'oh crap' (but I do agree with being caught out of position) 2. Pull back army to defend mass drop or nydus or something in that manner OR 3. Recall probes from one nexus to another to save all probes from getting wiped out. Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:21 murphs wrote:
I'm glad people are hating on the colossus. Both it and the thor need to taken out and shot and never spoken of again. Sad part is, Protoss is balanced around Colossus.
PvT is totaly playable without them, and could as well not use them in PvZ with a few tweak so.. meh.
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On April 12 2012 03:20 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:11 CajunMan wrote:On April 12 2012 03:10 TheKefka wrote:On April 12 2012 03:09 CajunMan wrote:Idk what the collossus QQ is about quit QQing if your bad. Its a good unit and I personally loved the idea from beta to now. It's one of the new units I thought was really great. I do think Protoss could benefit from a Dark Archon though Colossus is not a good unit.Its the worst unit in sc2 right now bar none. Why? Seems to do what its intended and very well and can be very fragile by itself. The colossus is a horrible sc2 units because its stacraft.You are supposed to do something with your units in stacraft.The colossus is just a giant siege unit that stands in the back and aoes shit into the ground. The maximum amount of micro you can do with a colossus is if you move it back and forth or on and off clifs rofl.They are terrible for harass because they can't be built early because you don't have the eco to do it and if you built them off 2 base your going to get rolled by mass roaches in ZvP or marauders in TvP. and if not you just won with a allin that doesn't work since Ace won IEM with 2 base colossus rofl.They only really work as a unit off 3 base and in a death ball which is a terrible concept in the first place.
I agree that the colossi is a completely shit unit and should be abolished immediately, but saying the 2 base colossi all in doesn't work is a bit off, it was pretty much unstoppable during IPL4, 6 gate 1 robo 2-3 colossi.
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EPT
