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It only took 15 pages for this to devolve in to some BW people coming in here telling us all how bad StarCraft 2 is.
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On April 12 2012 02:52 Govou wrote:
instead of mass recall, i think there should be a massive photon cannon upgrade research. or that photon cannons benefits from the weapon + armor upgrades from forge. It would solve alot of late game base defence protoss have.
problem with mutas? how bout photon cannon firing mode research? either splash damage or rapd firing
Kind of like the Photon Cannon upgrade in Nexus Wars?
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On April 12 2012 03:07 Percutio wrote:
Needs way to break tank lines -> adds long range missile bombardment
Problem nuclear launch?
Decides air to air splash capital ship isn't necessary for Protoss -> adds siege range capital ship
Problem carrier?
It is ok though, the warhound is in contention for being too much like a mini thor. I just feel trolled by Blizzard sometimes.
Well, to be honest. Its ok in that it gives you more options. Many TvTs end up in super boring stalematches even with Ghosts and nukes. Remember how the famous Boxer vs rain game both of them turtles in their half of the map for like 1 hour?
And now with the Air spidermine I can see a mech TvT where you are not terribly behind if you lose the Air battle. I actually love the air spider mine don't know why so many people are complaining about it
I agree about the Carrier, they should buff it instead of adding a new unit.
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I think it would be cool if they changed the Colossus so that you have to hit it with a forcefield to give it the energy it needs to fire its lasers... that would be so awesome, and would give Protoss even more stuff to micro in their deathball :D
Blizzard why don't you hire me??
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On April 12 2012 01:37 decaf wrote:
Being caught out of position is a good thing for esports, there have to be mistakes to be made. The recall must be cut.
+1
User was warned for this post
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On April 12 2012 03:04 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:58 crms wrote:On April 12 2012 02:45 dcsoda wrote:On April 12 2012 02:39 crms wrote:
starcraft 2 is not the great game that the starcraft diehard (bw maniacs) deserved. we have fooled ourselves into thinking starcraft2 is an amazing esport title but it's actually a mediocre PC RTS that nobody would play if it wasn't titled 'starcraft'.
It sucks because I was so hyped for SC2, but after the hype dies you start to see the game much more clearly. I'm not convinced that HoTS is going to change any of the inherent problems with SC2. BW is still very playable go back and play that. There is no way BW maniacs would have been satisfied with anything new that's why they are BW maniacs. SC2 has been great fun to play and watch for me and I'm incredibly excited to see where HotS takes the game. It's not even in beta yet so there is very little to be gained from speculation and balance discussion, it's not going to be right. Perhaps BW maniacs was the wrong term. I myself didn't even play BW, I was purely a spectator. Perhaps I shouldn't have drawn attention to the BW fans at all. My point doesn't change. We force ourselves as starcraft/rts/esports fans to swallow the pill of SC2 but if we remove ourselves from the force feeding and see SC2 as an independant game it's not very good. This is excluding all of the bnet 2.0 failures. Starcraft 2 was hugely successful on hype and hype alone. It was the sequel to one of the most successful PC games in history. It had one of the few gaming communities that has withstood the test of time and championed esports to incredible levels behind it before it ever released. We as a community enamored with starcraft culture have convinced ourselves into accepting SC2 as a great RTS, the next torch for 'esports' rather blindly. I challenge anyone to think this game would be anything other than a medicore RTS title had it not been for the fact it's starcraft's sequel. Perhaps that's an unfair challenge, that it's too hard to remove the culture behind starcraft and the hype built up for the release but I think time will tell. edit; to be clear (and fair) I think SC2 is better than a lot of PC games available, it's just not as good as it should be and the fact that the gameplay (and bnet 2.0) is largely unchanged after 2 years just reiterates my point. lol wut? Hype would not stand the test of time. SC2 did. It has been for 2 years now and it's still going strong in Esport. Gameplay unchanged after 2 years? Are you kidding me?
you realize the player numbers each season have decreased as well as overall streamviews, right? I mean IPL4 finals had 40k.. that's no go.
Don't mix my words though, I don't think SC2 is dying or anything. I think the crazy damn near exponential growth the game seemed to have is just leveling out. However, I don't see many brand new people circulating in once the older fans go out. This is at least reflected in the playerbase, not sure about viewership.
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We’re also experimenting with some nexus abilities. One example is a mass recall that allows the protoss to be more aggressive. They can move out onto the map with their slower sentry/zealot force and, if things don’t work out, recall the force back to their base if and when things go wrong.
I would love this. Sentry expands would become viable again as you could instantly pull back if the zerg made mass units!
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On April 12 2012 03:12 BigBossX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:07 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2012 03:04 Gosi wrote:
It just feels like Dustin Browder is using the Starcraft franchise so he can play out his bad fantasies of game design and unit design/roles and actually have people playing it. All this mess just feels more like some kind of Starcraft/Red Alert/MOBA cluster fuck.
Units that are copies of BW units but still not the good BW unit.
More gimmicky stuff that suits more in Red Alert and MOBAs (anti air spider mine? some wacky ass missile that makes mech even worse in TvT, that hook on the viper that is stolen from Pudge from DotA, you just don't need any timing and skill to hit your target, the charge upgrade on Ultralisk that you can find in like any MOBA game).
Still no words on the Warpgate mechanic and the worst unit ever Colossus.
zzzzzzzzzzz
people like this are the reason Blizz is so silent about HoTS Well maybe if blizz were more open about HOTS and acknowledged some of the many issues people wouldn't be making posts like this? These posts exist for a reason dude ...
if blizz was more open there would jsut be more people posting hate threads and hating on blizz
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On April 12 2012 02:53 Mordanis wrote:
You can tell its blizz by the way they refer to the units as "he" instead of "it" :D
Lol. Your mind works as peculiarly as mine as this is what I took away from the post as well.
I always hoped the overseer was a "she."
I am one of those toss who like the Oracle. But overall, I find this response to be lacking in excitement regarding their description of toss. They seem happy with WOL Terran, excited about HOTS Zerg, and lukewarm about Toss in general. 
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On April 12 2012 03:11 densha wrote:
I'm concerned that the Viper's "blind" spell is pointless.
It would have been very helpful to break entrenched positions and to help Z engage Protoss armies. Now that it only works on bio units I don't see the point - wouldn't you rather have infestors against bio?
Doesn't it make Terran bio somewhat... worthless? It's a mass optical flare right?
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On April 12 2012 01:20 NeWeNiyaLord wrote:Show nested quote +
Terrans
Terrans have undergone significant changes since we talked about them at BlizzCon. We have not kept the shredder, and even the warhound is in contention. The shredder was very confusing for players as well as being something that was easily used to kill a large number of workers with little to no warning. It was rarely used for its intended role of map control. The warhound still feels a little too much like a small thor, which is just not new enough to give terran players new strategies. We are still experimenting with a wide range of units, particularly from the factory, which we think is a little light on options. We have had a great deal of trouble with the terrans largely because they are such a flexible and effective race in StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty. We want to provide terran players with new strategies, however, so we will continue to work on them.
If we keep the Thor, we are currently experimenting with an anti-air spider mine that would give the terrans a way to get some factory-built anti-air into small places that a Thor has trouble reaching (like near your minerals). Whether this is meaningful, considering terrans have marines, is still in question. We are also experimenting with an extremely long-ranged terran missile launcher that can be used to break siege tank lines to make terran-vs.-terran factory-based games more dynamic.
Protoss
Protoss have gone through some changes since BlizzCon as well. The oracle is still in and functioning as a protoss raider (as intended) that can give the protoss some reach in the mid-game to disrupt enemy plans. The replicant has been cut. He was causing enemy players to not build certain unit types and was actually removing diversity from the game instead of adding diversity.
The tempest was a powerful splash anti-air capital ship at BlizzCon. With the addition of the range upgrade on phoenix in Wings of Liberty we no longer feel like a splash anti-air weapon is necessary on the protoss, but we would still like to give the protoss some additional firepower in the air. The tempest is currently a very long-ranged aerial siege weapon that can strike both air and ground targets. This gives the protoss army some real reach to force an engagement on their terms in the end-game.
We’re also experimenting with some nexus abilities. One example is a mass recall that allows the protoss to be more aggressive. They can move out onto the map with their slower sentry/zealot force and, if things don’t work out, recall the force back to their base if and when things go wrong.
Zerg
Zerg are the most stable and largely unchanged since BlizzCon. The swarm host is still serving well as a zerg siege unit that can burrow and pressure the enemy from a distance (in a very zergy way), but the viper has some slightly different new abilities. In addition to Abduct, the viper also has the ability to blind biological units in an area of effect. Blinded units have their range reduced to 1. This is obviously effective against terran infantry as well as zerg roach and hydra armies. The viper can also regain energy by feeding off of minerals. This locks up the mineral patch and prevents it from being harvested, so you want to use this ability away from your base.
We have decided to keep the overseer and make the viper a pure caster. We will be taking a look at the overseer to see what we can do to make his abilities more interesting.
We are also trying some additional abilities on the nydus network to allow you to spawn different types of nydus worms. The most interesting worms have been a worm that can spew creep across several screens to create a zerg assault highway, as well as a worm that attacks only enemy buildings, meant to be used as a ground-based zerg base raider.
We have some more work to do before we’re ready to begin beta testing Heart of the Swarm. We know that everybody wants a date for when they can play, and we know how important it is to get this out in front of the community as soon as possible. We’re working on it.
You can read the whole blog hereTo me, It seems like there's still alot of changes until Beta. And also seems like the community has been listened to! Very happy to see the replicant beeing removed for instance, aswell as the shredder! EDIT: Quoted the whole statement by request.
STOP TROLLING :D
Blizzard changing all the garbage nice. SOTG makes it happen i guess HAHA
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On April 12 2012 03:13 aintthatfunny wrote:Show nested quote +We’re also experimenting with some nexus abilities. One example is a mass recall that allows the protoss to be more aggressive. They can move out onto the map with their slower sentry/zealot force and, if things don’t work out, recall the force back to their base if and when things go wrong.
I would love this. Sentry expands would become viable again as you could instantly pull back if the zerg made mass units!
So would I. But they mention this as though it is new. Nexus mass recall was part of the prior unveiling of HOTS units at Blizzcon.
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On April 12 2012 03:12 BigBossX wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:07 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2012 03:04 Gosi wrote:
It just feels like Dustin Browder is using the Starcraft franchise so he can play out his bad fantasies of game design and unit design/roles and actually have people playing it. All this mess just feels more like some kind of Starcraft/Red Alert/MOBA cluster fuck.
Units that are copies of BW units but still not the good BW unit.
More gimmicky stuff that suits more in Red Alert and MOBAs (anti air spider mine? some wacky ass missile that makes mech even worse in TvT, that hook on the viper that is stolen from Pudge from DotA, you just don't need any timing and skill to hit your target, the charge upgrade on Ultralisk that you can find in like any MOBA game).
Still no words on the Warpgate mechanic and the worst unit ever Colossus.
zzzzzzzzzzz
people like this are the reason Blizz is so silent about HoTS Well maybe if blizz were more open about HOTS and acknowledged some of the many issues people wouldn't be making posts like this? These posts exist for a reason dude ...
I can't tell if you're serious or dumb. Blizzard has given us unprecedented vision in to the process of making HotS. We are getting basically pre-alpha updates and blogs from them, explaining things in great detail. News flash: You are not a game designer. You do not work for Blizzard. They are not entitled to give you more access than they are, which is way beyond what we normally get as gamers. Frankly, Blizzard could never include you at all in the process, and guess what? You'd still buy HotS.
People like you just amaze me. A company gives you unprecedented access to their design process, and you complain about not having enough access and that they need to be more open.
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I can live with sentrys somehow, but I really hate Colosai and I hate it with a passion. It seems though that they will keep this retarded unit forever, since they didn't even mention it.
Also take out Carriers for some auto attack blob. GJ
Starcraft 2 is good, but it is really missing something. I dare to even say that WC 3 was less one dimensional.
I could go on this rant forever pointing things out and explaining them, but right now I'm gonna hit the ladder and pretend that I don't hate it that much.
One last thing not about my race is: Swarm Host - this unit totally doesn't make sense. People want Lurker or something similar to it and they give us this. They even seem happy with this CRAP. I just can't get my head around it, you have to burrow it to spawn those guys?...
I just hope they will prove me wrong and I know that I shouldn't hope for anything. There is no better RTS than SC2, so I think that's the reason why I stick with it. I mean it's good as it is, but it could be so much better.
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On April 12 2012 03:12 kevinmon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 02:52 Govou wrote:
instead of mass recall, i think there should be a massive photon cannon upgrade research. or that photon cannons benefits from the weapon + armor upgrades from forge. It would solve alot of late game base defence protoss have.
problem with mutas? how bout photon cannon firing mode research? either splash damage or rapd firing Kind of like the Photon Cannon upgrade in Nexus Wars?
didnt play nexus wars but i would welcome any kind of late upgrade for photon cannon that can buy sometime against muta but even against stimmed marines with madivac.
that way the one who is flanking the base also has to take some risk.
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On April 12 2012 03:12 Brainling wrote:
It only took 15 pages for this to devolve in to some BW people coming in here telling us all how bad StarCraft 2 is.
They will find every chance to do so. What funny is we almost never go to their forum.
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On April 12 2012 03:13 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:04 Wildmoon wrote:On April 12 2012 02:58 crms wrote:On April 12 2012 02:45 dcsoda wrote:On April 12 2012 02:39 crms wrote:
starcraft 2 is not the great game that the starcraft diehard (bw maniacs) deserved. we have fooled ourselves into thinking starcraft2 is an amazing esport title but it's actually a mediocre PC RTS that nobody would play if it wasn't titled 'starcraft'.
It sucks because I was so hyped for SC2, but after the hype dies you start to see the game much more clearly. I'm not convinced that HoTS is going to change any of the inherent problems with SC2. BW is still very playable go back and play that. There is no way BW maniacs would have been satisfied with anything new that's why they are BW maniacs. SC2 has been great fun to play and watch for me and I'm incredibly excited to see where HotS takes the game. It's not even in beta yet so there is very little to be gained from speculation and balance discussion, it's not going to be right. Perhaps BW maniacs was the wrong term. I myself didn't even play BW, I was purely a spectator. Perhaps I shouldn't have drawn attention to the BW fans at all. My point doesn't change. We force ourselves as starcraft/rts/esports fans to swallow the pill of SC2 but if we remove ourselves from the force feeding and see SC2 as an independant game it's not very good. This is excluding all of the bnet 2.0 failures. Starcraft 2 was hugely successful on hype and hype alone. It was the sequel to one of the most successful PC games in history. It had one of the few gaming communities that has withstood the test of time and championed esports to incredible levels behind it before it ever released. We as a community enamored with starcraft culture have convinced ourselves into accepting SC2 as a great RTS, the next torch for 'esports' rather blindly. I challenge anyone to think this game would be anything other than a medicore RTS title had it not been for the fact it's starcraft's sequel. Perhaps that's an unfair challenge, that it's too hard to remove the culture behind starcraft and the hype built up for the release but I think time will tell. edit; to be clear (and fair) I think SC2 is better than a lot of PC games available, it's just not as good as it should be and the fact that the gameplay (and bnet 2.0) is largely unchanged after 2 years just reiterates my point. lol wut? Hype would not stand the test of time. SC2 did. It has been for 2 years now and it's still going strong in Esport. Gameplay unchanged after 2 years? Are you kidding me? you realize the player numbers each season have decreased as well as overall streamviews, right? I mean IPL4 finals had 40k.. that's no go. Don't mix my words though, I don't think SC2 is dying or anything. I think the crazy damn near exponential growth the game seemed to have is just leveling out. However, I don't see many brand new people circulating in once the older fans go out. This is at least reflected in the playerbase, not sure about viewership.
IPL4 peeked at 80k. That's more than before.
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On April 12 2012 03:13 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:04 Wildmoon wrote:On April 12 2012 02:58 crms wrote:On April 12 2012 02:45 dcsoda wrote:On April 12 2012 02:39 crms wrote:
starcraft 2 is not the great game that the starcraft diehard (bw maniacs) deserved. we have fooled ourselves into thinking starcraft2 is an amazing esport title but it's actually a mediocre PC RTS that nobody would play if it wasn't titled 'starcraft'.
It sucks because I was so hyped for SC2, but after the hype dies you start to see the game much more clearly. I'm not convinced that HoTS is going to change any of the inherent problems with SC2. BW is still very playable go back and play that. There is no way BW maniacs would have been satisfied with anything new that's why they are BW maniacs. SC2 has been great fun to play and watch for me and I'm incredibly excited to see where HotS takes the game. It's not even in beta yet so there is very little to be gained from speculation and balance discussion, it's not going to be right. Perhaps BW maniacs was the wrong term. I myself didn't even play BW, I was purely a spectator. Perhaps I shouldn't have drawn attention to the BW fans at all. My point doesn't change. We force ourselves as starcraft/rts/esports fans to swallow the pill of SC2 but if we remove ourselves from the force feeding and see SC2 as an independant game it's not very good. This is excluding all of the bnet 2.0 failures. Starcraft 2 was hugely successful on hype and hype alone. It was the sequel to one of the most successful PC games in history. It had one of the few gaming communities that has withstood the test of time and championed esports to incredible levels behind it before it ever released. We as a community enamored with starcraft culture have convinced ourselves into accepting SC2 as a great RTS, the next torch for 'esports' rather blindly. I challenge anyone to think this game would be anything other than a medicore RTS title had it not been for the fact it's starcraft's sequel. Perhaps that's an unfair challenge, that it's too hard to remove the culture behind starcraft and the hype built up for the release but I think time will tell. edit; to be clear (and fair) I think SC2 is better than a lot of PC games available, it's just not as good as it should be and the fact that the gameplay (and bnet 2.0) is largely unchanged after 2 years just reiterates my point. lol wut? Hype would not stand the test of time. SC2 did. It has been for 2 years now and it's still going strong in Esport. Gameplay unchanged after 2 years? Are you kidding me? you realize the player numbers each season have decreased as well as overall streamviews, right? I mean IPL4 finals had 40k.. that's no go. Don't mix my words though, I don't think SC2 is dying or anything. I think the crazy damn near exponential growth the game seemed to have is just leveling out. However, I don't see many brand new people circulating in once the older fans go out. This is at least reflected in the playerbase, not sure about viewership.
The game has been out two years, and finally the player numbers are dwindling a bit. The retention rate for most games is weeks, not years. The numbers will spike back up when HotS releases and the entire casual crowd that's gotten bored and moved on to other games comes back. Believe it or not, most gamers don't play the same game for years on end. The fact that SC2 has retained as well as it has is amazing in the modern era, when the bevy of options we have as gamers is basically limitless.
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On April 12 2012 03:13 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2012 03:12 BigBossX wrote:On April 12 2012 03:07 Forikorder wrote:On April 12 2012 03:04 Gosi wrote:
It just feels like Dustin Browder is using the Starcraft franchise so he can play out his bad fantasies of game design and unit design/roles and actually have people playing it. All this mess just feels more like some kind of Starcraft/Red Alert/MOBA cluster fuck.
Units that are copies of BW units but still not the good BW unit.
More gimmicky stuff that suits more in Red Alert and MOBAs (anti air spider mine? some wacky ass missile that makes mech even worse in TvT, that hook on the viper that is stolen from Pudge from DotA, you just don't need any timing and skill to hit your target, the charge upgrade on Ultralisk that you can find in like any MOBA game).
Still no words on the Warpgate mechanic and the worst unit ever Colossus.
zzzzzzzzzzz
people like this are the reason Blizz is so silent about HoTS Well maybe if blizz were more open about HOTS and acknowledged some of the many issues people wouldn't be making posts like this? These posts exist for a reason dude ... if blizz was more open there would jsut be more people posting hate threads and hating on blizz
Blizzard deserves every bit of flaming they get if they think that a good idea is to make gaining energy quicker dependent whether you can find an open mineral patch. Then conceptualize any sort of ICBM type unit which outranges the siege tank, which already needs a unit in front of it to spot for it. How the fuck does that even work? Could you just launch missiles onto places you can't even see on the minimap? Does it have 15 range? It seems completely ridiculous the direction they're going with some of the rest of this stuff.
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Just saddens me that they seem to be adding in BW units, but are changing them just enough that they can pretend they aren't. They have too much pride to admit they were wrong.
Look we get it... just add the Lurker back in place of swarm host, Goliath in place of warhound.. and we'll pretend that Blizzcon didn't happen. oh and leave the carrier, if you're going to change the tempest to do what the carrier does anyway... why bother?
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EPT
