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I honestly wish the announcers had kept their opinions to themselves. I am pretty sure most of the general public sided with the announcers, and would have if they had said MKP had a chance to win. In the future casters should really not say what their opinion is. I know it is hard for them, trying to fill in time with fluff and all, but they caused a ton of unneeded drama sadly. Their opinions really sway a large majority of the less informed audience. In the end their opinions have no effect on the outcome, but as they say, hindsight is 20/20, just in the future I really think they shouldn't say anything. Hopefully blizzard puts loading from replays or something like that in before this happens again(not holding my breath though...)
Their have been plenty of arguments that show that MKP had a chance. Destruction summed it up nicely. I play Protoss, but I am a MKP/Prime fan. I believe that PartinG probably would have won that game, but I have seen way to many situations where MKP has came back from "unwinnable" situations and far to many players in general lose situations where they had the game "100% won". The fact that this was a nerve racking game that had HUGE impact on the rest of the finals, PartinG's nerves easily could have failed him. Maybe he retreats after MKP's vikings pick off his warp prism. Maybe he tries to attack the third/fourth/fifth. Maybe MKP holds in insane ways like he has done before and comes back to win.
Look at Naniwa vs huk game 2. Naniwa had that game 100% won. literally, 100% won. All he had to do was kill a pylon outside his natural(that he attacked for a couple of seconds) and the game was over. Instead he decided to go to Huks main, and lost because of Huks insane control. Granted, PartinG may not have made a fatal mistake, but as others have pointed out, a minute earlier if the game had dropped when PartinG was 40ish supply down would you have given it to MKP? I wouldn't have. Again, PartinG probably had that game won, but you can't give probably a win.
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On a side note, lol at mkp saying he will win as long as he wins nestea and polt. Seems like this two are the only one who he is worried about. Kinda sad how the last protoss and last foreigner is ignored by him. MMA fans are gonna go bat shit on him if they found out though
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Is it bad that I'm incredibly excited they're going to release that replay, just to watch the game?
Dat storm/anti-storm micro...
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Idiot kid. You NEVER escape the Kong line. If you win 10 GSLs back to back we'll still remember you for the silvers. 
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On April 09 2012 00:20 draumr wrote:
I honestly wish the announcers had kept their opinions to themselves. I am pretty sure most of the general public sided with the announcers, and would have if they had said MKP had a chance to win. In the future casters should really not say what their opinion is. I know it is hard for them, trying to fill in time with fluff and all, but they caused a ton of unneeded drama sadly. Their opinions really sway a large majority of the less informed audience. In the end their opinions have no effect on the outcome, but as they say, hindsight is 20/20, just in the future I really think they shouldn't say anything. Hopefully blizzard puts loading from replays or something like that in before this happens again(not holding my breath though...)
Their have been plenty of arguments that show that MKP had a chance. Destruction summed it up nicely. I play Protoss, but I am a MKP/Prime fan. I believe that PartinG probably would have won that game, but I have seen way to many situations where MKP has came back from "unwinnable" situations and far to many players in general lose situations where they had the game "100% won". The fact that this was a nerve racking game that had HUGE impact on the rest of the finals, PartinG's nerves easily could have failed him. Maybe he retreats after MKP's vikings pick off his warp prism. Maybe he tries to attack the third/fourth/fifth. Maybe MKP holds in insane ways like he has done before and comes back to win.
Look at Naniwa vs huk game 2. Naniwa had that game 100% won. literally, 100% won. All he had to do was kill a pylon outside his natural(that he attacked for a couple of seconds) and the game was over. Instead he decided to go to Huks main, and lost because of Huks insane control. Granted, PartinG may not have made a fatal mistake, but as others have pointed out, a minute earlier if the game had dropped when PartinG was 40ish supply down would you have given it to MKP? I wouldn't have. Again, PartinG probably had that game won, but you can't give probably a win.
I completely agree with you. What people don't seem to realise is that there had to be (to borrow a term) no reasonable doubt that Parting had won for the refs to give Parting the win. I'm sure the refs saw information that gave them reasonable doubt. At the end of the day, they were entitled (and probably correct) to their decision.
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On April 09 2012 00:08 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 23:45 Destructicon wrote:
I didn't re-watch the game several times, I just have a good memory, payed attention very well to what was happening in the game, and then put all the pieces together from the pictures.
You can clearly see that PartinG is moving units across the map because he doesn't have a forward pylon, and I know for a fact the warp prism was in MKP's main because I saw it move that way during the battle, the vikings would surely have taken it out, leaving PartinG at a logistical disadvantage.
Edit: To the poster above me. While normally it is true that a Toss can reinforce faster and better due to warp in mechanic, in this particular game it wasn't the case due to no forward pylon and a badly placed WP. Moving your units across the map to fight while the defender is reinforcing on the spot is always superior. Lastly and still most importantly, PartinG had mass zealots, that would have had to fight in a choke up a ramp, he would have traded badly. He didn't really need to bumrush MKP's main. He just needed to camp production, deny mining, and wait for his HTs. He had 8 of them. Once they arrived, he could push up the ramp and just spam storm once MKP tried to defend. It was open-and-shut Parting's game.
yeah, he did not even need to press the issue at the main, he couldve stormed the 4th and 5th and destroy all income of mkp... i cannot say it was a 100% win because i am no expert, but i would like to believe the game was so far in partings favor that a win should have been awarded, since the amount of failures required to lose such a game do not happen at this level.
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On April 09 2012 00:20 draumr wrote:
I honestly wish the announcers had kept their opinions to themselves. I am pretty sure most of the general public sided with the announcers, and would have if they had said MKP had a chance to win. In the future casters should really not say what their opinion is. I know it is hard for them, trying to fill in time with fluff and all, but they caused a ton of unneeded drama sadly. Their opinions really sway a large majority of the less informed audience. In the end their opinions have no effect on the outcome, but as they say, hindsight is 20/20, just in the future I really think they shouldn't say anything. Hopefully blizzard puts loading from replays or something like that in before this happens again(not holding my breath though...)
This is an asinine argument. The announcers are PAID to do their JOB to tell viewers what their opinion of the game is. If you don't have announcers giving people their opinions, then they're worthless. Also, if the announcers tell us how MKP has a chance and everything, but then GOM decides to rule in favor of Parting, then they might as well lose their jobs because no one would ever trust their opinion on anything ever again. And if they just shut their mouth and not say anything either way, people will think they're tools who don't minds of their own.
So you are basically asking announcers to not do their job and tank their careers for the sake of not making GOMTV look bad. I like our English casters, and would prefer they don't do that.
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What is his twitter account? I want to tell him to go resign.
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On April 09 2012 00:34 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 00:08 Shiori wrote:On April 08 2012 23:45 Destructicon wrote:
I didn't re-watch the game several times, I just have a good memory, payed attention very well to what was happening in the game, and then put all the pieces together from the pictures.
You can clearly see that PartinG is moving units across the map because he doesn't have a forward pylon, and I know for a fact the warp prism was in MKP's main because I saw it move that way during the battle, the vikings would surely have taken it out, leaving PartinG at a logistical disadvantage.
Edit: To the poster above me. While normally it is true that a Toss can reinforce faster and better due to warp in mechanic, in this particular game it wasn't the case due to no forward pylon and a badly placed WP. Moving your units across the map to fight while the defender is reinforcing on the spot is always superior. Lastly and still most importantly, PartinG had mass zealots, that would have had to fight in a choke up a ramp, he would have traded badly. He didn't really need to bumrush MKP's main. He just needed to camp production, deny mining, and wait for his HTs. He had 8 of them. Once they arrived, he could push up the ramp and just spam storm once MKP tried to defend. It was open-and-shut Parting's game. yeah, he did not even need to press the issue at the main, he couldve stormed the 4th and 5th and destroy all income of mkp... i cannot say it was a 100% win because i am no expert, but i would like to believe the game was so far in partings favor that a win should have been awarded, since the amount of failures required to lose such a game do not happen at this level.
Just look at the game right after MKP vs Parting, MKP vs Bomber. There were some SERIOUS mistakes made that game by both players that if you DC'd the game at 3 different points the outcome could've been for a different player each time. We love SC because anything can happen at any moment simply due to the 100's of decisions players have to make every couple of minutes. The amount of pressure they are under is amazing and stress makes people do strange things. Yet when DC's happen people act like it's a forgone conclusion what will take place in the next 2-5 minutes. Nothing is a guarantee in this game.
Reminds me of all the idiots that all they do is stare at Idra's supply count as he maxes on roaches and is up 50 supply only to get destroyed at the first army engagement. This isn't a race to 200/200 or a race to max bases or mining out the map, you make your opponent GG or leave the game. That's the only thing that matters, everything else is the story not the conclusion. Until that moment no game is won or lost.
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On April 09 2012 01:13 Hrrrrm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 00:34 Naphal wrote:On April 09 2012 00:08 Shiori wrote:On April 08 2012 23:45 Destructicon wrote:
I didn't re-watch the game several times, I just have a good memory, payed attention very well to what was happening in the game, and then put all the pieces together from the pictures.
You can clearly see that PartinG is moving units across the map because he doesn't have a forward pylon, and I know for a fact the warp prism was in MKP's main because I saw it move that way during the battle, the vikings would surely have taken it out, leaving PartinG at a logistical disadvantage.
Edit: To the poster above me. While normally it is true that a Toss can reinforce faster and better due to warp in mechanic, in this particular game it wasn't the case due to no forward pylon and a badly placed WP. Moving your units across the map to fight while the defender is reinforcing on the spot is always superior. Lastly and still most importantly, PartinG had mass zealots, that would have had to fight in a choke up a ramp, he would have traded badly. He didn't really need to bumrush MKP's main. He just needed to camp production, deny mining, and wait for his HTs. He had 8 of them. Once they arrived, he could push up the ramp and just spam storm once MKP tried to defend. It was open-and-shut Parting's game. yeah, he did not even need to press the issue at the main, he couldve stormed the 4th and 5th and destroy all income of mkp... i cannot say it was a 100% win because i am no expert, but i would like to believe the game was so far in partings favor that a win should have been awarded, since the amount of failures required to lose such a game do not happen at this level. Just look at the game right after MKP vs Parting, MKP vs Bomber. There were some SERIOUS mistakes made that game by both players that if you DC'd the game at 3 different points the outcome could've been for a different player each time. We love SC because anything can happen at any moment simply due to the 100's of decisions players have to make every couple of minutes. The amount of pressure they are under is amazing and stress makes people do strange things. Yet when DC's happen people act like it's a forgone conclusion what will take place in the next 2-5 minutes. Nothing is a guarantee in this game. Reminds me of all the idiots that all they do is stare at Idra's supply count as he maxes on roaches and is up 50 supply only to get destroyed at the first army engagement. This isn't a race to 200/200 or a race to max bases or mining out the map, you make your opponent GG or leave the game. That's the only thing that matters, everything else is the story not the conclusion. Until that moment no game is won or lost.
Sound words. Plus how many times have we seen Idra GG when he had the game won or close to it? SC2 is a mindgame more than anything else, and its impossible to predict how anything will unfold in the end. I do personally think Parting had that game won, but thats just my opinion. The refs at GOM are the ones who had to make that tough call, and I believe a regame was the smartest and best option in a situation like that.
Besides, both players were incredibly sportsmanlike about it. They did exactly the same builds and strategies, and the game unfolded almost exactly as the original had. Imo, MKP deserved to win the first game for his control and macro alone anyway... I think this GSTL went well overall, almost as well as it could have, the games were all outstanding also.
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On April 09 2012 01:13 Hrrrrm wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2012 00:34 Naphal wrote:On April 09 2012 00:08 Shiori wrote:On April 08 2012 23:45 Destructicon wrote:
I didn't re-watch the game several times, I just have a good memory, payed attention very well to what was happening in the game, and then put all the pieces together from the pictures.
You can clearly see that PartinG is moving units across the map because he doesn't have a forward pylon, and I know for a fact the warp prism was in MKP's main because I saw it move that way during the battle, the vikings would surely have taken it out, leaving PartinG at a logistical disadvantage.
Edit: To the poster above me. While normally it is true that a Toss can reinforce faster and better due to warp in mechanic, in this particular game it wasn't the case due to no forward pylon and a badly placed WP. Moving your units across the map to fight while the defender is reinforcing on the spot is always superior. Lastly and still most importantly, PartinG had mass zealots, that would have had to fight in a choke up a ramp, he would have traded badly. He didn't really need to bumrush MKP's main. He just needed to camp production, deny mining, and wait for his HTs. He had 8 of them. Once they arrived, he could push up the ramp and just spam storm once MKP tried to defend. It was open-and-shut Parting's game. yeah, he did not even need to press the issue at the main, he couldve stormed the 4th and 5th and destroy all income of mkp... i cannot say it was a 100% win because i am no expert, but i would like to believe the game was so far in partings favor that a win should have been awarded, since the amount of failures required to lose such a game do not happen at this level. Just look at the game right after MKP vs Parting, MKP vs Bomber. There were some SERIOUS mistakes made that game by both players that if you DC'd the game at 3 different points the outcome could've been for a different player each time. We love SC because anything can happen at any moment simply due to the 100's of decisions players have to make every couple of minutes. The amount of pressure they are under is amazing and stress makes people do strange things. Yet when DC's happen people act like it's a forgone conclusion what will take place in the next 2-5 minutes. Nothing is a guarantee in this game. Reminds me of all the idiots that all they do is stare at Idra's supply count as he maxes on roaches and is up 50 supply only to get destroyed at the first army engagement. This isn't a race to 200/200 or a race to max bases or mining out the map, you make your opponent GG or leave the game. That's the only thing that matters, everything else is the story not the conclusion. Until that moment no game is won or lost.
Well said. I don`t understand how so many people made the conclusion that Parting had that game when stranger things have happened in many games in the past. Can`t make a decision that heavy by ASSUMING how the player with the advantage will play the rest of the game.
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On April 09 2012 00:25 Belisarius wrote:
Is it bad that I'm incredibly excited they're going to release that replay, just to watch the game?
Dat storm/anti-storm micro...
Haha I'm secretly excited too for this reason :D
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Awesome interviews!
I like that Prime's Coach stepped up about the disconnect "I ask GomTV to release the replay so that there is no misunderstanding. If Startale or the fans think that Parting deserved a win, I will resign as team Prime’s coach."
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Wether or not Parting would have won that game, nobody can deny the impact this game had on the outcome of the final.
With Parting beating MKP he would've all killed the best players of Prime while still playing as the ace of his own team, aswell as having squirtle, Bomber and Curious waiting for the potential killing blow.
Being in an advantageous position, such as Parting, and getting dropped of the game has a greater negative influence on one's momentum than it would have when you're on the backfoot. Basically, MKP got a second chance ("I lost that game, so I'm not gonna let him do that again) in an extremly volatile match while Parting must have been like "I won that game, I can't lose now!", thus pressuring himself much harder. Parting clearly lost the game of nerves. MKP all-killing the rest of ST (though the bobmer game was close) wasn't much of a suprise at all
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On April 09 2012 01:22 ooozer wrote:
Wether or not Parting would have won that game, nobody can deny the impact this game had on the outcome of the final.
With Parting beating MKP he would've all killed the best players of Prime while still playing as the ace of his own team, aswell as having squirtle, Bomber and Curious waiting for the potential killing blow.
Being in an advantageous position, such as Parting, and getting dropped of the game has a greater negative influence on one's momentum than it would have when you're on the backfoot. Basically, MKP got a second chance ("I lost that game, so I'm not gonna let him do that again) in an extremly volatile match while Parting must have been like "I won that game, I can't lose now!", thus pressuring himself much harder. Parting clearly lost the game of nerves. MKP all-killing the rest of ST (though the bobmer game was close) wasn't much of a suprise at all
Creator and Byun would like a word. You know, the two players who absolutely raped StarTale not so long ago without the help of MarineKing.
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i want to go back to the old days of Mvp making MKP look like a boy on stage
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Yeah and squritle beat Creator yesterday. Not to forget that Partings PvP and PvZ are top notch aswell. I never said ST would've won that 100%, but the outcome would most likely not be 5:2 for prime
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On April 09 2012 01:26 IMNasty wrote:
i want to go back to the old days of Mvp making MKP look like a boy on stage
Any word yet on when MVP's gonna make a comeback?
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On April 09 2012 01:22 ooozer wrote:
Wether or not Parting would have won that game, nobody can deny the impact this game had on the outcome of the final.
With Parting beating MKP he would've all killed the best players of Prime while still playing as the ace of his own team, aswell as having squirtle, Bomber and Curious waiting for the potential killing blow.
Being in an advantageous position, such as Parting, and getting dropped of the game has a greater negative influence on one's momentum than it would have when you're on the backfoot. Basically, MKP got a second chance ("I lost that game, so I'm not gonna let him do that again) in an extremly volatile match while Parting must have been like "I won that game, I can't lose now!", thus pressuring himself much harder. Parting clearly lost the game of nerves. MKP all-killing the rest of ST (though the bobmer game was close) wasn't much of a suprise at all
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319285
Didn't that happen a while ago? Prime won.
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As far as I'm concerned even if MKP had 5% chance to win that game, the DC should be a regame no matter what
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EPT
