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On April 08 2012 20:53 DidYuhim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 20:44 Ruscour wrote:On April 08 2012 18:40 DarKFoRcE wrote:
Very good performance by MKP and in a way i guess they deserve the win. Still, even though i like Prime better than StarTale, as a player i felt it was unfair to give a regame. It's unfair to give a regame, but imo it's more unfair to give the victory to PartinG. There's no "correct" decision here. The "draw" would have been a legit way to solve it, with both players getting a score but getting out of the player pool, or removing both players and forcing to play BO7 with 2-1 if you like, but they wanted fan favorite to stay in game and therefore they made such a decision. It just made PRIME look very bad overall, almost saying "we got one player on our team that can actually win something". Same goes for the interviews. Show nested quote +On April 08 2012 20:51 Destructicon wrote:
While I'm sure many still believe PartinG was robbed, I do believe the refs made a good choice given the information they had at hand. They just got scared of "HURR DURR MARINEKING DIDN'T LUS DAT GUIM" all over the SC2 world.
Jesus, such wild accusations. They still had Byun and Creator, both who have shown can demolish every member on the StarTale team.
Quit making up conspiracies please.
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From my spectator's perspective, Parting had that game won. However, he's my favorite player, so I might not be impartial, and they surely took their time reviewing the replay, so they should know better than me. Also, Gerrard seems to be a good, honest coach, so don't resign dude 
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4713 Posts
On April 08 2012 20:53 DidYuhim wrote:
They just got scared of "HURR DURR MARINEKING DIDN'T LUS DAT GUIM" all over the SC2 world.
How about you read the entirety of my post and make an educated response before you post. But I guess its too easy to post shit when you're blinded by rage. Haters gonna hate.
Still really happy for MKP, he fought really hard. Anyone who says he got a auto-win or a he was lucky is kidding himself. MKP did the exact same build vs ParinG down to the wire, even with the same SCV save from the first game. They fought in much the same way but MKP just came out way ahead.
MKP could have easily gone for some kind of all-in and won, but he was so confident in his own abilities that he stuck to the same build.
Then, even though he was being heavily harasses by Bomber and was super far behind in economy and down a base, he made the best of the situation he was in, went for a base race and executed it much, much better.
In the game with Squirtle, he played great again showing fantastic decision making, pulling SCVs at the right times, baiting FFs and winning the final battle by the slimmest of margins.
And vs Curious he did take a bit of a gamble, but it payed of, but that wasn't the highlight of the game. The highlight was him fighting ling, bling and infestors without tanks. His marine and marauder splits where fantastic and he just traded super cost effectively until he broke Curious.
Be angry at the refs if you wish, but don't take a way MKP's hard fought and hard won victory.
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Yeah, obviously it's a shame it happened, but we certainly have no right to take away anything from the team Prime. As one who was very Strongly voting for Startale obviously it was a dissapointment but I would have to be an idiot to blame Prime. I agree with the refs decision it was a draw too. The only thing you can blame is the internet and it's really sad for Startale, who knows how it wouldve turned out. But with the circumstances, Prime deserved this win and MKP deserved his victories. Good luck to Startale in the future though. Hopefully they can overcome this disheartening loss and make it to the finals again next season and take the crown then.
Good job to all the parties involved and congrats to Prime!
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On April 08 2012 20:51 Destructicon wrote:
This last one is more or less speculation but, I believe PartinG had reinforced at home and was sending units across the map, so he didn't have warp in ready, while MKP had units ready to pop out.
No speculation. That's exactly what had happened. Parting had to attack up a choke with zealots vs marauders and scvs repairing. MKP had pumped about 1k worth of minerals into bio that was about to pop.
The game would have played out like this: Parting kills the 3 forward rax, MKP defends up his ramp. Meanwhile his bio pops and he can defend his 3rd from zealots. Parting would have to go back to regroup and the game would play out with about similar harvesters + mules for MKP.
Please all, go ahead and call that a sure victory for Parting.
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If Startale or the fans think that Parting deserved a win, I will resign as team Prime’s coach.
Wow, that's a dangerous statement to make. He shouldn't resign, man. It's a shitty thing that happened, but they should take as many positives with them as possible. Congratulations once again, Prime!
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Awesome job Prime! Good job winning.
PS: For all of the people that are complaining about the re-game thing, MKP beat every other player pretty soundly. Then there's Byun/Creator, which are two very good players known for being the aces of Prime as well. I don't see how this re-game translates to Prime actually losing. This community is very strange.....everyone just wants everyone else to fail. Sort of sad.
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631 Posts
Thanks for the translations!
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Gerrard's all talk. There's no way he's gonna resign. Parting had that game 100% won, but he can just deny it so it's just an empty statement.
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On April 08 2012 21:47 ma70 wrote:
Awesome job Prime! Good job winning.
PS: For all of the people that are complaining about the re-game thing, MKP beat every other player pretty soundly. Then there's Byun/Creator, which are two very good players known for being the aces of Prime as well. I don't see how this re-game translates to Prime actually losing. This community is very strange.....everyone just wants everyone else to fail. Sort of sad.
Which is remarkable, and anybody denying he is an outstanding player is plain wrong - but he should not have played further games to begin with. And lol @ your skewed perception of everybody wants successful people to fail...
Also I think it as a dickish move of Gerrard to be honest ( in a western context - maybe in a korean it´s different and he really means it- however irrational it is either way)
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On April 08 2012 21:47 ma70 wrote:
Awesome job Prime! Good job winning.
PS: For all of the people that are complaining about the re-game thing, MKP beat every other player pretty soundly. Then there's Byun/Creator, which are two very good players known for being the aces of Prime as well. I don't see how this re-game translates to Prime actually losing. This community is very strange.....everyone just wants everyone else to fail. Sort of sad.
So if you ever play in a tournament, and was just about to beat the tournament #1 ranked player, only to see him disconnected, re-gamed and beat you. But because he goes on to win the tournament, you would have just said, "Well, since he beat everyone else, I guess he deserved to beat me. I have no problems as he is obviously the best player."
If so, then I just want to say most people would not feel the same way in this hypothetical situation. Just want to point that out. You may feel that it's okay, but that would just be your opinion.
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so the coach puts his position on the line? well thats like martyring here on TL, goodbye coach!
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On April 08 2012 22:23 Polarexia wrote:
Gerrard's all talk. There's no way he's gonna resign. Parting had that game 100% won, but he can just deny it so it's just an empty statement.
Ahead yes, 100%? Not a chance
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On April 08 2012 20:51 Destructicon wrote:
I don't believe MKP's situation was a sure loss.
The graph is extremely miss leading and doesn't take into account positioning, which in my opinion is the true deciding factor.
PartinG was far away into MKP's territory without a proxy pylon.
He had a Warp Prism but limited resources to immediately reinforce, and Vikings where nearby to intercept it.
PartinG was outside MKP's base, on the low ground camping 3 Raxes.
MKP was down in supply but Parting didn't have all his army in one place, some was in the middle and his HT where at home, he was scattered.
This last one is more or less speculation but, I believe PartinG had reinforced at home and was sending units across the map, so he didn't have warp in ready, while MKP had units ready to pop out.
Now, if PartinG would have destroyed the raxes outside MKP's main, while waiting for reinforcements to arrive, he would have given enough time to MKP to reinforce and hold easily.
If PartinG would have gone straight towards MKP's primary production he would have had to fight up a ramp into a choke and a wall that was going to be auto-repaired by SCVs, with more SCV used as a buffer, meanwhile the production of MKP coming out, combined with MKPs micro and landed vikings (after he snipes the WP, and no colossus nearby), would have ensured that PartinG trades very bad there.
Zealots are great in open ground and terrible in chokes, people keep forgetting this.
Also, even if MKP loses some SCVs, he has enough orbital commands to provide a safety buffer via MULEs.
I'm not saying everything would have happened precisely like that, what I am saying though is that MKP's situation was far from a sure loss, and I do believe the refs took all of that into account when they made the decision.
While I'm sure many still believe PartinG was robbed, I do believe the refs made a good choice given the information they had at hand.
If for example PartinG still had 1 Archon left and/or 2-3 HT with energy WITH HIS ARMY, I would have given it to him right there, but he was too scattered and going up superior fortifications with melee units mostly.
I hope enough people will come to realize this and not let it cloud their judgements, I also hope people won't take their hate out on Prime or his coach and instead focus on blaming the technical problems and the refs if they really are pissed.
You sir, just won the Internetz
Just to be sure, I checked the VODs and you sir are correct on the bolded parts. The italicized patts are what actualy happened. Wow, How many times did you watch it? I mean, these are just VODs but if GOmTV releases the replays, then I would even call Parting lucky because he was given a rematch. I know it sounds absurd but...wow.
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Please Prime start looking for a new head coach, or tell Gerrard to not say dumb things, tha game was lost in 99% of the cases, that 1% being that MKP kicked the pc and it died like happened.
16 (or 18?) zealots hitting on your infrastructure, 6 stalkers, 8 High templars AND a warp prism to warp in your base against 3 marauders and 6 Vikings?
I felt so bad for Startale, and thing this will give a lot to talk, had Prime been 2-1 up instead they would have been given the loss.
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Thanks for these translations, certainly made me feel better about the finals. But wow:
If Startale or the fans think that Parting deserved a win, I will resign as team Prime’s coach.
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Parting was miles ahead by my metric. I have yet to hear someone who doesn't play Terran say that MKP was in a favourable position, or even in a winnable position. Yeah, it's not impossible that MKP could have won, but Parting had an advantage, and a large one, at that. Parting is probably the best HT utilizer in the entire world, and he had 8 of them. That was going to matter sooner or latter. With that many, he could afford to miss half his storms and still kill MKP's army. The time it takes to move HTs across the map (Esp with a warp prism) is irrelevant given the limitations of MKP's production and the size of Parting's standing army.
I find it amusing that in every other case, Terrans will complain about Protoss's ability to reinforce quicker than Terran, but now everyone seems to be doubting that Protoss can reinforce quickly at all. Warp in is warp in, whether it's at home or at a proxy pylon. It's still gonna be faster than Terran.
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4713 Posts
I didn't re-watch the game several times, I just have a good memory, payed attention very well to what was happening in the game, and then put all the pieces together from the pictures.
You can clearly see that PartinG is moving units across the map because he doesn't have a forward pylon, and I know for a fact the warp prism was in MKP's main because I saw it move that way during the battle, the vikings would surely have taken it out, leaving PartinG at a logistical disadvantage.
Edit: To the poster above me. While normally it is true that a Toss can reinforce faster and better due to warp in mechanic, in this particular game it wasn't the case due to no forward pylon and a badly placed WP. Moving your units across the map to fight while the defender is reinforcing on the spot is always superior. Lastly and still most importantly, PartinG had mass zealots, that would have had to fight in a choke up a ramp, he would have traded badly.
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On April 08 2012 23:45 Destructicon wrote:
I didn't re-watch the game several times, I just have a good memory, payed attention very well to what was happening in the game, and then put all the pieces together from the pictures.
You can clearly see that PartinG is moving units across the map because he doesn't have a forward pylon, and I know for a fact the warp prism was in MKP's main because I saw it move that way during the battle, the vikings would surely have taken it out, leaving PartinG at a logistical disadvantage.
Edit: To the poster above me. While normally it is true that a Toss can reinforce faster and better due to warp in mechanic, in this particular game it wasn't the case due to no forward pylon and a badly placed WP. Moving your units across the map to fight while the defender is reinforcing on the spot is always superior. Lastly and still most importantly, PartinG had mass zealots, that would have had to fight in a choke up a ramp, he would have traded badly.
He didn't really need to bumrush MKP's main. He just needed to camp production, deny mining, and wait for his HTs. He had 8 of them. Once they arrived, he could push up the ramp and just spam storm once MKP tried to defend.
It was open-and-shut Parting's game.
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EPT
