EPT
(Atleast I can dream )
Blizzard negotiating SC2 with KeSPA directly - Page 40
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Knock off the SC2 vs BW vs LoL vs whatever crap please. | ||
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mrafaeldie12
Brazil537 Posts
(Atleast I can dream ) | ||
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Aemilia
344 Posts
On March 26 2012 13:03 Ciryandor wrote: They already have a template for custom maps AND chat channels for Warcraft 3, why fix what ain't broken? Also, no replay watching??? Also, some fundamental differences from BW like defender's advantage and unit clumping (both of which influence a game's pace) are not in the game at all. They've had YEARS to pre-plan what made WCIII and BW so great, then they have to remake everything all over again to get it back? The game is fundamentally an amazing game to the vast and overwhelming majority of people. There are perhaps small additions to be made but while some Brood War fans hate the AI, the auto mine and other stuff that is a really fringe opinion. The lack of success of the game in Korea is far more down to bad marketing in Korea and lack of OGN/Kespa involvement than any fundamental flaws in the game. It's good enough for July, Boxer and Nada to play it and if Blizzard hadn't royally fucked up with Kespa (and vice versa) then I think Kespa would have switched 18 months ago. | ||
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rift
1819 Posts
2 Sudden Attack FPS 13.58% 3 Aion RPG 11.64% 4 FIFA Online 2 Sport 5.92% 5 StarCraft RTS 5.25% 6 Warcraft 3 RTS 4.87% 7 Lineage RPG 3.76% 8 Lineage 2 RPG 2.28% 9 World of Warcraft RPG 2.26% 10 Terra RPG 2.25% PC Baang (PC Cafe) Top 10 SC2 is in the 20s, I think | ||
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Ciryandor
United States3735 Posts
On March 26 2012 13:09 Aemilia wrote: The game is fundamentally an amazing game to the vast and overwhelming majority of people. There are perhaps small additions to be made but while some Brood War fans hate the AI, the auto mine and other stuff that is a really fringe opinion. The lack of success of the game in Korea is far more down to bad marketing in Korea and lack of OGN/Kespa involvement than any fundamental flaws in the game. It's good enough for July, Boxer and Nada to play it and if Blizzard hadn't royally fucked up with Kespa (and vice versa) then I think Kespa would have switched 18 months ago. It isn't just the game itself, the community and custom-gaming features that allowed the common player to still feel involved and maintain themselves as evangelists of SC2 to a wider audience are severely curtailed compared to what it could be (and had already been in seed form in WCIII). The current community has been awesome for sure; but people here are mostly preaching to the choir. Bringing the game to a wide audience like what happened in KR a decade ago is already at a time long past today, and fault for it lies with Blizzard for under-delivering on both content and hype. | ||
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
On March 26 2012 10:50 Xiphos wrote: But I don't want to open my arms and embrace another game. The little gaming heart inside me have little to no interest in moba games. I think it will be like WoW PvP. You won't understand it until you play it, and most of the viewers are people who play the game. However, in both cases, they were initially successful because their player bases were huge. But unlike WoW, MOBAs are designed to be competitive. So unlike WoW who died because the competition died within professionals, MOBAs can have a successful model that is different from SC2. So I think it is okay if you don't have interest, you aren't meant to. The game design doesn't lend to easy viewing, which I think you are okay with and they are okay with. But I think games like BW/SC2 really have a gift of being to attract anyone. I think if BW has to die and pass the rains on to another competitive game, SC2 seems like a really good choice. Sorry if this is a BW/SC2/LoL talk that is outlawed in this thread, I thought it would be relevant. | ||
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
On March 26 2012 13:11 rift wrote: 1 League of Legends RTS 14.01% 2 Sudden Attack FPS 13.58% 3 Aion RPG 11.64% 4 FIFA Online 2 Sport 5.92% 5 StarCraft RTS 5.25% 6 Warcraft 3 RTS 4.87% 7 Lineage RPG 3.76% 8 Lineage 2 RPG 2.28% 9 World of Warcraft RPG 2.26% 10 Terra RPG 2.25% PC Baang (PC Cafe) Top 10 SC2 is in the 20s, I think What do the percentages mean? The amount of people who play it or what the game's rating is? Or something else? | ||
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oBlade
United States5956 Posts
On March 26 2012 12:16 Aemilia wrote: This is just so incredibly wrong. Firstly Blizzard is not a company that makes a lot of games, they release a small number of titles and always stand by quality over quantity. This is both debatable and possibly irrelevant. It might be their goal, but that doesn't mean they always achieve it, nor does it mean when they create worse games that they wouldn't still play up esports to the extend it was profitable. For instance, look at all the forgotten titles that have been pushed through WCG. Secondly if people get extremely into one Blizzard because of ESports they game they will A) Buy the expansions, B) Tell their friends about the game and C) Buy/try other Blizzard games because they're super into one Blizzard game so they will of course try the other games. Yeah, people will buy an RTS and its 2 expansions and an MMO and its 4 expansions on monthly pay-to-play. It's not in dispute that if any of a company's titles is an esport, they will have more exposure. The point is that they can grow more by using the newer titles. For instance, compare SC2 sales that were a cause of BW's esportness to, say, all the sales in Blizzard games coming from SC2's esportness. Now do you really think the tendency of a company in this position would be to support the longevity of just one title in their franchise? Only so far as it's convenient - i.e., until the next sequel comes around. ESports is nothing but win for a company like Blizzard, or indeed any company but especially one like Blizzard. Yes, they are better with it than without it. But they're also better with their hand in it than without. But scenes themselves don't need benevolent dictators. | ||
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mrafaeldie12
Brazil537 Posts
On March 26 2012 13:27 CakeSauc3 wrote: What do the percentages mean? The amount of people who play it or what the game's rating is? Or something else? In S. Korea there are "lan houses" that are called PC bangs, they're really popular and usually dictate the popularity of said games amidst the younger audiences. Basically means wich games are played the most on them lan houses. | ||
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Aemilia
344 Posts
On March 26 2012 13:28 oBlade wrote: This is both debatable and possibly irrelevant. It might be their goal, but that doesn't mean they always achieve it, nor does it mean when they create worse games that they wouldn't still play up esports to the extend it was profitable. For instance, look at all the forgotten titles that have been pushed through WCG. Yeah, people will buy an RTS and its 2 expansions and an MMO and its 4 expansions on monthly pay-to-play. It's not in dispute that if any of a company's titles is an esport, they will have more exposure. The point is that they can grow more by using the newer titles. For instance, compare SC2 sales that were a cause of BW's esportness to, say, all the sales in Blizzard games coming from SC2's esportness. Now do you really think the tendency of a company in this position would be to support the longevity of just one title in their franchise? Only so far as it's convenient - i.e., until the next sequel comes around. Yes, they are better with it than without it. But they're also better with their hand in it than without. But scenes themselves don't need benevolent dictators. I don't see the problem with Blizzard only supporting their products until a sequel comes along because Blizzard sequels are nearly a decade in the making. This might present a clash with Esports for Call of Duty or Battlefield, but it really doesn't for Blizzard. | ||
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DDsavior
United States19 Posts
Flash comes over to starcraft2 and takes every single tournament. Okay, not every single one, but the sudden influx of the A players from brood war is definitely going to change a lot as far as tournaments go O.O | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
On March 26 2012 10:52 Zariel wrote: Lol at the people who say 'bw is dying'. Did you know that in korea, it's actually uncommon to find someone playing SC2? 90% of people in net Cafes still play bw. SC2 is insignificant in korea. GOM fucked up big time for SC2 and they are too stubborn to co-exist with OGN. Clearly if you want something to grow, you need to open its doors to everyone. It's really sad that GOM is actually limiting the growth of SC2. Still, bw isn't that popular outside of Korea anymore. If we want esports to grow, we need to promote a game that can become popular with the rest of the world instead of focusing on a market which excludes all but one small country and a few online fans. Plus, I'd be willing to bet that, once the current bw legends switch to sc2, their national fans will follow suit. | ||
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Aemilia
344 Posts
On March 26 2012 13:38 DDsavior wrote: Guys you do realize what happens if they stop having major brood war tournaments right? Flash comes over to starcraft2 and takes every single tournament. Okay, not every single one, but the sudden influx of the A players from brood war is definitely going to change a lot as far as tournaments go O.O It should be great. Sc2 could use some new talent to shake up the scene and bring some new ideas to the game. | ||
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oBlade
United States5956 Posts
On March 26 2012 13:34 Aemilia wrote: I don't see the problem with Blizzard only supporting their products until a sequel comes along because Blizzard sequels are nearly a decade in the making. This might present a clash with Esports for Call of Duty or Battlefield, but it really doesn't for Blizzard. I was using "until" as an upper limit. SC2 expansions are paced every 2 years. I don't think it would be surprising if Blizzard's vested interest in the SC2 scene was noticeably declining from 2 years after Legacy of the Void. The way to create marginally profitable, but sustainable and professional (for the players' welfare), esports is to do so independent of a shepherd studio injecting money like it was heroin. | ||
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Aemilia
344 Posts
On March 26 2012 13:45 oBlade wrote: I was using "until" as an upper limit. SC2 expansions are paced every 2 years. I don't think it would be surprising if Blizzard's vested interest in the SC2 scene was noticeably declining from 2 years after Legacy of the Void. The way to create marginally profitable, but sustainable and professional (for the players' welfare), esports is to do so independent of a shepherd studio injecting money like it was heroin. I would like to think that after 6 years of Sc2 the scene and game would have all functions required and was well established enough to flourish without Blizzard, especially given we already do it right now. If we get a six year run out of Sc2 then that's pretty damn good really given only Brood War and Counter Strike have done better. It's the nature of the business that platforms change over time. I don't think anyone wants Blizzard to act like Riot, we just want LAN, replays with friends, clan names plus other stuff and them to assist the major tournaments where required in a non financial way. I wouldn't be too suprised if 2 years after Legacy of the Void Blizzard was ready to release Starcraft 3 (or Warcraft 4) and everyone will then move on to that. | ||
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oBlade
United States5956 Posts
On March 26 2012 13:51 Aemilia wrote: I would like to think that after 6 years of Sc2 the scene and game would have all functions required and was well established enough to flourish without Blizzard, especially given we already do it right now. If we get a six year run out of Sc2 then that's pretty damn good really given only Brood War and Counter Strike have done better. It's the nature of the business that platforms change over time. I wouldn't be too suprised if 2 years after Legacy of the Void Blizzard was ready to release Starcraft 3 (or Warcraft 4). I agree that the game can probably fulfill that role. I don't think as a game it's perfect for that task, or even just the best game we have right now, but because of these other circumstances it was sort of born into being a flagship esport. That's what I mean by top-down, whereas if games are built as community sandboxes, then really the best possible games will be selected just by popular preference. And the examples for those sort of games would be BW/CS among others. | ||
Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
On March 26 2012 13:42 0neder wrote: If Blizzard would revamp their Korean business model to really get SC2 to the masses (read:free in some cases), they might have a shot... I think in PC Bangs you can play it for free. You dont need to buy the game but I am not sure | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On March 26 2012 14:08 Chexx wrote: I think in PC Bangs you can play it for free. You dont need to buy the game but I am not sure I was under the impression that they specifically didn't want that with SC2, so they pushed a subscription model that was a huge flop. | ||
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BrosephBrostar
United States445 Posts
Blizzard doesn't care about esports at all. They don't care about BW, they don't care about Counter Strike, they don't care about League of Legends, or Street Fighter, or shitty games like Kart Rider. All they care about is their bottom line and they have teams of marketers ready to make you care just as much. You just won't notice it. On March 26 2012 13:43 CakeSauc3 wrote: Still, bw isn't that popular outside of Korea anymore. If we want esports to grow, we need to promote a game that can become popular with the rest of the world instead of focusing on a market which excludes all but one small country and a few online fans. Plus, I'd be willing to bet that, once the current bw legends switch to sc2, their national fans will follow suit. This is just what I'm talking about. You know how Tasteless talks about how SC2 is blowing up and people all over the world are going to make esports big? He was saying the exact same thing 4 years ago about BW with the original GOM league. Of course that failed because Blizzard was greedy and wanted more than the industry was willing to give. Imagine what "esports" would be like now if Blizzard had played nice with kespa to begin with. | ||
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dgwow
Canada1024 Posts
On March 26 2012 14:11 BrosephBrostar wrote: It's pretty sad that most people clamoring "for esports" don't realize they've basically been bought and paid for. Has anyone really thought about why SC2 is such a big deal? It's all about the money. I'm willing to bet Blizzard spent more money promoting SC2 the year it came out than it has in the last 10 years on BW. Blizzard tried to monetize BW as an esport back in 2008 and when they failed they tried to kill it. Now that BW is dying on it's own they're is ready to swoop in like vultures. Blizzard doesn't care about esports at all. They don't care about BW, they don't care about Counter Strike, they don't care about League of Legends, or Street Fighter, or shitty games like Kart Rider. All they care about is their bottom line and they have teams of marketers ready to make you care just as much. You just won't notice it. I think Blizzard before it was bought out by Activision cared about this, but with the new CEO and board of directors it is all business. See: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128252 | ||
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