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chosenkerrigan
858 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:40 Raid wrote: Maybe because MMA just beat DRG in that blizz cup tournament a couple months ago? A 4-3 in a bo7 several months ago isn't that convincing. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:42 BoggieMan wrote: based on 15 peoples statistics terran has a better chance of winning in tvz? or did i misunderstand something? i think you need to look at the overall graphs for racewinrate in Korea to judge it like that. We did. It's terrible. http://imgur.com/a/1aAfu | ||
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bokeevboke
Singapore1674 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:40 Raid wrote: Maybe because MMA just beat DRG in that blizz cup tournament a couple months ago? Lets not forget every terran recently interviewed and other races have said MMA is the best terran in the world. Even nestea has said it. How can we doubt son of Boxer? I hardly believe MMA is the best terran in the world. He is in a good form though. | ||
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Hulavuta
United States1252 Posts
They both have 1 win from GSTL, MMA beat DongRaeGu 2-1 at MLG Anaheim, DongRaeGu beat MMA 2-0 at Providence, and then there was a 4-3 at BLizzard Cup. So they are actually dead even against each other. | ||
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Venomsflame
United States613 Posts
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mnck
Denmark1518 Posts
I would also say that with that in mind DRG should be considered extremely good at ZvT. As Jinro puts it, how is 64% not good? And to further extend on that. How is 64% over his entire career not extremely impressive when you can look at these stats (http://imgur.com/a/1aAfu) and see just how far ahead Terran have been in Korea in the past. 64% is pretty damn impressive winrate in Code S and GSTL over your entire career. And by no means is ZvT his worst matchup because of a winrate. His wins are against former GSL champions in ZvT. Not like many Zergs or Protoss have won championships compared to Terran, so the skill level of his competition in ZvT should be much higher, compared to what he faces in other matchups. | ||
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Fubi
2228 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:37 bokeevboke wrote: what you expect us to discuss? Should we say smth like DRG-King of ZvT only 64%, good to know! lets just move on! I think no. The point of the thread is that the best ZvTer has only 64% and most of Zergs have less than 50% which implies that zergs are doing poor against terrans. There might two reasons for that: either zergs are bad or ZvT is terran favoured, which is kinda related to balance. see? 1) It's a common misconception that higher rank players should have ungodly win ratio: you're forgetting the fact that the better you are, the further you advance in tournaments, and therefore the better your opponents are as well. Most of the % are inflated above 50% simply due to all the lower level players they've played, but as you can see, it gets harder and harder to climb higher: it isn't a linear increase relative to your skills 2) 64% win rate is VERY VERY good, it means you win 2/3 of your matches, so you win most of you Bo3's, so I don't know what you mean "only" 64% 3) Where did you read from the OP's post that "most" of the zergs have less than 50% win rate vs T? He listed like 5 out of 50... 4) There is more than your two possible reason to explain this; one of them being "by pure chance". If you flip 20 fair coins, in theory you should get 10-10 head/tails, but in reality, it's not rare to get 9-11 or 8-12 or even some more variations. This is simply due to chance: something the OP didn't take into consideration at all, and the whole point of statistics is to prove your results to be actually true due to real variables and not simply by chance. | ||
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DrPandaPhD
5188 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:34 Raid wrote: Lets not forget that MMA > DRG so statistically MMA should always have the better stats... And did you not see MMA vs Zenio? MMA's multitasking is off the charts. And of course I'm pretty sure MVP who was once deemed as unbeatable just a few months ago is no slouch nor are the other players who are just almost about as good as them.. 64% means your winning, lets not forget that DRG only won his first gsl tournament and is still a rising player, and lets not forget that code s terrans are a special rare breed of pure korean mechanics and dominance. Yes MMA is a beast, but so is DRG. Would argue that they are both equally good. "A rising player" started winning about the same time as MMA did? They both kind of started winning at the same time. "and lets not forget that code s terrans are a special rare breed of pure korean mechanics and dominance" wow, I don't even... You seriously believe that? That the Korean terrans are just straight up better than the Korean toss/zerg mechanics? The fact that the % difference is so big between them feels weird. But I don't know how old the data is calculated from. People like Leenock and IdrA have both said that the ZvT matchup is pretty fine so I believe them. Most pro zergs complain about toss atm I think. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
It's 56,9% winrate for Terran in February and slowly diminishing since December, "terrible" is kind of an overstatement don't you think? Not to mention that TvZ in international terms is dead even, which is pretty much unheard of in any RTS with differing races lol. | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:48 Venomsflame wrote: Some of the zergs you posted as being bad ZvT have been playing the best TvZers in the world... It's hard to get wins of players like MMA and MVP in arguably their best matchup!! Or that TvZ is T favoured!!! Because for every TvZ superstar, there should be a ZvT superstar with equal win ration, because this is the case in a balanced matchup!!!! And since we dont have anyone like that (measly 68% from DRG) it's quite obvious that it's a T favoured matchup!!! Here's all the math I did for coming to that conclusion: + Show Spoiler [You probably wont understand it] + If anyone has a problem with my conclusion / my math - why dont "you" go back to highschool, learn math, do "your" own math and proof me wrong??? | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:56 Saechiis wrote: It's 56,9% winrate for Terran in February and slowly diminishing since December, "terrible" is kind of an overstatement don't you think? Not to mention that TvZ in international terms is dead even, which is pretty much unheard of in any RTS with differing races lol. Look at the Korean TvZ matchup will you... Just look at it. Come back to me after you've looked at it. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
On March 16 2012 11:35 TheRabidDeer wrote: MMA is shining proof that just blindly dropping marines all over the place is hard to handle for zerg and almost always cost efficient. "Blind" lol. Have you actually watched an MMA game? | ||
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stillborn
Germany119 Posts
In general i still think that the top tier Terran players are just playing on another level of multitasking compared with the top tier Zergs excluding DRG. MMA, MKP, MVP .. just solid solid guys | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:54 Fubi wrote: 3) Where did you read from the OP's post that "most" of the zergs have less than 50% win rate vs T? He listed like 5 out of 50... . Top 50 by Korean ELO has only 12 Zergs Six of which has ZvT winrates below 50% | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:57 neoghaleon55 wrote: Look at the Korean TvZ matchup will you... Just look at it. Come back to me after you've looked at it. Yeah it says 56,9%, passive agressive much? | ||
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karpo
Sweden1998 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:56 Saechiis wrote: It's 56,9% winrate for Terran in February and slowly diminishing since December, "terrible" is kind of an overstatement don't you think? Not to mention that TvZ in international terms is dead even, which is pretty much unheard of in any RTS with differing races lol. It's all exaggerations. Zergs overall are horrible at ZvT, DRGs 64% winrate in ZvT is horrible compared to his other matchups, DRG actually isn't good at ZvT, and TLPD shows that zerg winrate is terrible. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
What impressed me lately from the korean terrans is, that they are adapting really swiftly to zerg. Korean zergs fail alot at that. I guess the regular nerfs to terran have triggered them to rely on unit control alot, where other races never got the need to. And it might end up ruining the balance of the game. (unless blizzard is aware of when they nerf something to hard in order to keep the game currently balanced and already has plans of redoing it). Maybe zerg needs some nerfs too ^^. Terrans seem to be unaffected by nerfs in korea. Though it feels like the game length in tvz halfed since the ghost nerf lol. | ||
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Fubi
2228 Posts
On March 16 2012 22:57 neoghaleon55 wrote: Look at the Korean TvZ matchup will you... Just look at it. Come back to me after you've looked at it. Looks like 56.9% chance for TvZ still to me, what's your point? There is a higher discrepancy for ZvP in favor of Z on that exact same graph, what do you have to say about that? Just look at it. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
On March 16 2012 23:01 Saechiis wrote: Yeah it says 56,9%, passive agressive much? 57, 53, 58,53,53, 57 IS NOT the definition of slowly deminishing | ||
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Fubi
2228 Posts
On March 16 2012 23:00 neoghaleon55 wrote: Top 50 by Korean ELO has only 12 Zergs Six of which has ZvT winrates below 50% BUT by your logics, n = 12 which is less than 20, which means sample size too small!!! so it doesn't mean anything! kk thx. | ||
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