Patch 1.4.3 21-27 February - Page 27

On February 21 2012 14:27 IdrA wrote:

same reason that every patch blizzards nerfed terran and then terran winrates shot right back up to where they were before after a couple weeks. terran players keep finding new crutches that allow them to win without being all that good. mid game timings are so powerful and easy to win with up to a certain level that you have a ton of terrans who just 2 base allin every game and win the majority, but if they get past that they have no idea what to do and try to fight broodlord infestor with marine tank.

On February 21 2012 16:09 YyapSsap wrote:
Is it me or is T in general becoming more and more of a micro dependent race?

On February 21 2012 16:13 Son of Gnome wrote:

Terran has always been the race that has benefited the most from micro ex. marine splitting, stutter stepping, and the likes. Yeah I have to agree with you I feel that it is going from benefiting terran to the point where its basically micro or die. If you mess up your micro as terran vs protoss you die, mess up vs zerg you die. Just my thoughts though

On February 21 2012 15:52 IdrA wrote:

we were talking about tvz. tvp late game does seem very protoss favored and t might need help in that matchup.
but terran incompetence accounts for that late game tvz win %. watch good terrans, ones who have games that end up in the late game without failing a timing attack, who know how to defend properly, who abuse broodlord infestor mobility with mass drops, who use nukes to harass and prevent big attacks, who scan z and make proper counter unit compositions.
top tier t's have no problem going toe to toe with top tier z's late game, if the zergs manage to survive to that point.

On February 18 2012 13:10 llKenZyll wrote:

There was a PTR.

On February 21 2012 13:56 [Azn]Nada wrote:


To counter your previous statements. First, I quote husky as a source, because husky's channel contains mostly FOREIGN games, games outside korea. I did not mention this, but HD also had a 4.5 month span in which no terran won a non-mirror series. These two casts games from nearly every single famous non-korean, and the fact that they can cast a combined some 30 continuous nonmirror series involving terrans in which terran cannot win suggests that OUTSIDE korea, something is horribly wrong. As the person whom you are responding to suggested, OUTSIDE of korea, terran simply is getting wiped off the face of the planet. I remember a several-hundred post thread in which hundreds of people noticed terran disappearing off ladder, and hundreds more saying they switched races and instantly gained 1-2 leagues within days.

While Blizzard should address problems in korea, a good portion of SC2 players are foriegn, and it just kills me to see terran just constantly lose on BOTH of the most popular nonkorean streams.

"It could be said that just like Korean Terrans are really good, most foreign Terrans are really bad. ThorZain is really the only foreign Terran that has shown any sustained success. "

You yourself even realized that the truth of the matter is, foreign terrans are trash these days. The question is, is Blizzard correct to ignore the foreign scene to balance out GSL? That is the central question. My stance is no, because if they do, sc2 will end up like sc1 with no global market. You suggest that this won't effect TvZ too much. What I'm saying, is after watching hundreds of series, TvZ late game is already a rediclous uphill climb for terran, and this essentially kills them. You then try to qualify by saying that oh, blizzard will unnerf it if needed. What I'm saying is that Blizzard is largely ignoring the foreign community, where lategame TvZ is already (as you suggested) super difficult. I am saying they are incorrect to do this, all in hopes of balancing out GSL

I've watched BW for 5.5 years now and I was C+ in 1v1 on iccup, and then Diamond as terran for a while in SC2, before losing interest. So please don't tell me I'm "bronze league". Yes I do know EXACTLY what I'm talking about, for a couple years I spent 8+ hours a day on Starcraft.

As for GSL imbalance, I'd suggest you review the "Elephant in the Room" thread that was posted by a mod a while back. Nestea, the best zerg, was ZERGBONG - the only series he won was against great. MC was known as the SUICIDE toss. 1-9 record in SC1. If you've watched any SC1, ie. with Cholera/etc. you'll begin to realize that the current top Z/P players were literally the WORST of the SC1 group. On the other hand, decent terrans have switched. MVP was 50% in proleague, and beat (in consecutive Bo3 series) Jangbi, Best, Baby. ForGG, I don't even need to say - an MSL win over Flash AND Jaedong in two consecutive best of 5 series. The simple fact is, terrans in korea were better than the top protoss/zerg, and should continue to be better, not be nerfed until their skill has to compensate for terran weakness.

The simple fact is, top terrans in GSL are trained by Boxer, and were better in SC1 by miles. They SHOULD continue to be better in SC2. Their skill overrides imbalance, hence why they win a lot, and Blizzard is essentially nerfing terran until their skill advantage is negated. I'm stating that this is killing the game, as terran outside korea is already a very difficult race to play, and that this is just another wound to an essentially dead animal.

On February 21 2012 15:52 IdrA wrote:

we were talking about tvz. tvp late game does seem very protoss favored and t might need help in that matchup.
but terran incompetence accounts for that late game tvz win %. watch good terrans, ones who have games that end up in the late game without failing a timing attack, who know how to defend properly, who abuse broodlord infestor mobility with mass drops, who use nukes to harass and prevent big attacks, who scan z and make proper counter unit compositions.
top tier t's have no problem going toe to toe with top tier z's late game, if the zergs manage to survive to that point.

On February 21 2012 16:45 thezanursic wrote:

I agree, but nerfing snipe is still retarded.

On February 21 2012 17:02 Hetz wrote:
Is it so hard to understand that the race with the highest win-rates since beta gets the most nerfs? And please spare me the 'then we have to 1/2 base all-in 24/7' crap when all you do and did is just that. I have never seen ghosts being part of the terran arsenal under 12 minutes, have you?

On February 21 2012 17:10 decaf wrote:
The biggest benefit you get from ghosts is that they reduce the need of scouting late game. Now that they're basically useless vs blords and ultras terran has no legit way to deal with blord <-> ultra switches, because once you scout what's popping out of the eggs it's already too late to react with a few rounds of marauders/vikings. Ghosts allowed for a core unit composition that was able to deal with both reasonably well. I imagine TvZ will still be winnable for extremely good terrans even though it is getting a lot harder, but the TvZ winrate should drop way down up to mid GM.

On February 21 2012 17:17 Fortii wrote:


one unit to counter them all.

On February 21 2012 17:17 Fortii wrote:


one unit to counter them all.

exactly there is the problem. ghost is supposed to be an "anti spellcaster unit" and thats what he is with emp and snipe vs psionic. plus nuke harrass (dont underestimate it)

edit: if u think tvz winrate will drop take a look at HSM-raven vs broodlord immobility. and dont talk about ultras please, they are hilarious.

On February 21 2012 17:20 Bagi wrote:

Ghosts used to be that unit for terran in the lategame, now it has to be the marine again.