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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
If Terran had a factory unit that was useful vs armored air this whole disscussion wouldn't be necessary.
Maybe a walking Thor type unit, but smaller, more mobile, with maybe an air range upgrade and still be useful on the ground.
If only Blizzard in their infinate wisdom could concieve of such a unit. You know, I saw this game once called .... BloodWar, or BoodWar, something like that and had such a unit. Meh, maybe the guys at Blizzard never saw that game.
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On February 19 2012 07:39 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it. Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched.
I've seen it a couple times in pro matches.. Granted not very often. it just does so little its not really worth it.... by the time you can viably get that research, your opponent is going to have BL's or collosi/immortals. so the armour upgrade isn't really going to help at all.
And actually range gets upgraded a fair bit now that I think about it... I've seen it on multiple occasions.
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Building armour on PFs and turrets is pretty good against most of the more mobile units in the game. The fact that they can only stall a deathball, singhandedly, shouldn't give you the opinion that the upgrade is useless.
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On February 19 2012 07:42 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:39 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it. Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched. Because the units that attack PFs tend to have high damage/attack and +2 armour doesn't do much against them. Also I have seen terrans research +2 building armour anyway as a super-lategame thing and it's made a very small difference, so.
Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win!
I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury of skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about.
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On February 19 2012 07:47 Resistentialism wrote:
Building armour on PFs and turrets is pretty good against most of the more mobile units in the game. The fact that they can only stall a deathball, singhandedly, shouldn't give you the opinion that the upgrade is useless.
+1 Range only really make a difference vs Helions since they no longer can stay out of range of the PF while killing all the SCV's . +2 Building armor is pretty decent but you need 3-3 first and even then it doesn't do that much if you don't have enough army to win a fight.
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On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:42 Elyvilon wrote:On February 19 2012 07:39 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it. Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched. Because the units that attack PFs tend to have high damage/attack and +2 armour doesn't do much against them. Also I have seen terrans research +2 building armour anyway as a super-lategame thing and it's made a very small difference, so. Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans, have ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win! I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury to skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about.
Ravens are "ok" (10x worse than ht and infestor), but you are able to get them only if your opponent doesnt attack you for 15min so you can upgrade 500 upgrades needed for them just to throw HSM thats like 2 range and raven dies anyway.
Bc's in terran army? it has dps of workers and anything that shoots air kills it - its only good for TvT and nothing else.
PF's with upgrades would be good at 10-15min in game, late game it wont make any difference.
Medivac upgrades, thats smart, we should upgrade medivacs so they spawn with more energy so HT would instantly 1 shot it /high five, vs zerg you use medivacs for drops and not to heal constantly and till drops arrive they have enough energy, same in TvT.
But if you had a clue about terran I wouldnt even need to write this.
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On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:42 Elyvilon wrote:On February 19 2012 07:39 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it. Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched. Because the units that attack PFs tend to have high damage/attack and +2 armour doesn't do much against them. Also I have seen terrans research +2 building armour anyway as a super-lategame thing and it's made a very small difference, so. Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans, have ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win! I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury to skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about.
Mentioning the Medivac upgrade makes me think you never actually played Terran ROFL.
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On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:42 Elyvilon wrote:On February 19 2012 07:39 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it. Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched. Because the units that attack PFs tend to have high damage/attack and +2 armour doesn't do much against them. Also I have seen terrans research +2 building armour anyway as a super-lategame thing and it's made a very small difference, so. Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win! I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury to skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about.
That's because WOL was the Terran version of the game. So Terran got a bunch of stuff but they had too much so Blizzard nurfed it all so it was not really effective. but left terran with their core stuff.
The same will happen with Zerg and Toss in their versions.
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On February 19 2012 07:54 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:42 Elyvilon wrote:On February 19 2012 07:39 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it. Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched. Because the units that attack PFs tend to have high damage/attack and +2 armour doesn't do much against them. Also I have seen terrans research +2 building armour anyway as a super-lategame thing and it's made a very small difference, so. Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans, have ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win! I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury to skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about. Ravens are "ok" (10x worse than ht and infestor), but you are able to get them only if your opponent doesnt attack you for 15min so you can upgrade 500 upgrades needed for them just to throw HSM thats like 2 range and raven dies anyway. Bc's in terran army? it has dps of workers and anything that shoots air kills it - its only good for TvT and nothing else. PF's with upgrades would be good at 10-15min in game, late game it wont make any difference. Medivac upgrades, thats smart, we should upgrade medivacs so they spawn with more energy so HT would instantly 1 shot it /high five, vs zerg you use medivacs for drops and not to heal constantly and till drops arrive they have enough energy, same in TvT. But if you had a clue about terran I wouldnt even need to write this.
Wait a second, I'm just gonna start a sad marine fan club, brb!
Igraj bolje, ili gubi.
Since we are in fact talking about TvZ (that is the reason all you terran players are QQing), the medivac upgrade makes a lot of sense. Just like marines, you WILL be losing madivacs all game long. And instead of having little energy, after you have built new ones, it would be smarter to research the upgrade, and have more energy to heal stims. Especially good versus mutas...
User was warned for this post
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I think Blizzard should tell Protoss and Zerg players to L2P instead of nerfing Terran all the time. There's no motivator for Protoss and Zerg players to L2P when what they're losing to always gets nerfed.
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On February 19 2012 07:58 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:54 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:42 Elyvilon wrote:On February 19 2012 07:39 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:
[quote]
This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit.
I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it. Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched. Because the units that attack PFs tend to have high damage/attack and +2 armour doesn't do much against them. Also I have seen terrans research +2 building armour anyway as a super-lategame thing and it's made a very small difference, so. Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans, have ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win! I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury to skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about. Ravens are "ok" (10x worse than ht and infestor), but you are able to get them only if your opponent doesnt attack you for 15min so you can upgrade 500 upgrades needed for them just to throw HSM thats like 2 range and raven dies anyway. Bc's in terran army? it has dps of workers and anything that shoots air kills it - its only good for TvT and nothing else. PF's with upgrades would be good at 10-15min in game, late game it wont make any difference. Medivac upgrades, thats smart, we should upgrade medivacs so they spawn with more energy so HT would instantly 1 shot it /high five, vs zerg you use medivacs for drops and not to heal constantly and till drops arrive they have enough energy, same in TvT. But if you had a clue about terran I wouldnt even need to write this. Wait a second, I'm just gonna start a sad marine fan club, brb! Igraj bolje, ili gubi. Since we are in fact talking about TvZ (that is the reason all you terran players are QQing), the medivac upgrade makes a lot of sense. Just like marines, you WILL be losing madivacs all game long. And instead of having little energy, after you have built new ones, it would be smarter to research the upgrade, and have more energy to heal stims. Especially good versus mutas...
Medivacs are never out of Energy if you use Stim smart ....... . If like to overstim for no freaking reason it could make a difference but if you play smart in the first place this upgrade does nothing.
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United States13143 Posts
On February 19 2012 07:58 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:54 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:42 Elyvilon wrote:On February 19 2012 07:39 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:
[quote]
This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit.
I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it. Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched. Because the units that attack PFs tend to have high damage/attack and +2 armour doesn't do much against them. Also I have seen terrans research +2 building armour anyway as a super-lategame thing and it's made a very small difference, so. Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans, have ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win! I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury to skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about. Ravens are "ok" (10x worse than ht and infestor), but you are able to get them only if your opponent doesnt attack you for 15min so you can upgrade 500 upgrades needed for them just to throw HSM thats like 2 range and raven dies anyway. Bc's in terran army? it has dps of workers and anything that shoots air kills it - its only good for TvT and nothing else. PF's with upgrades would be good at 10-15min in game, late game it wont make any difference. Medivac upgrades, thats smart, we should upgrade medivacs so they spawn with more energy so HT would instantly 1 shot it /high five, vs zerg you use medivacs for drops and not to heal constantly and till drops arrive they have enough energy, same in TvT. But if you had a clue about terran I wouldnt even need to write this. Wait a second, I'm just gonna start a sad marine fan club, brb! Igraj bolje, ili gubi. Since we are in fact talking about TvZ (that is the reason all you terran players are QQing), the medivac upgrade makes a lot of sense. Just like marines, you WILL be losing madivacs all game long. And instead of having little energy, after you have built new ones, it would be smarter to research the upgrade, and have more energy to heal stims. Especially good versus mutas...
Hey let's see if we can find a progamer to say anything about the medivac energy upgrade in TvZ, maybe even in this quote tree
On February 19 2012 07:54 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:, vs zerg you use medivacs for drops and not to heal constantly and till drops arrive they have enough energy, same in TvT.
Also, marines demolish mutalisks in a straight-up fight anyway.
That said, compelling answer to the rest of his points, you've made me rethink everything about battlecruisers.
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On February 19 2012 08:09 Darknat wrote:
I think Blizzard should tell Protoss and Zerg players to L2P instead of nerfing Terran all the time. There's no motivator for Protoss and Zerg players to L2P when what they're losing to always gets nerfed.
P and Z use every unit, every upgrade they have. Its time for terrans to do the same (= L2P), in order to win.
And thanks to continues patching, it will happen.
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On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:
Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win!
I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury of skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about.
It's also funny how random Gold theorycrafters think they know more about a race they do not play than higher skilled players that actually main Terran. I'm pretty sure you could write an essay about how Reapers are the ultimate solution to lategame TvZ, but players (you know, people who play the game—not those who watch) know better than that.
As a matter of fact, I made a post, page 166, about why other Terran options in lategame all have big problems. This comes from someone who plays the game and plays Terran, so I'm really sorry if it's something sensible. Anyway, you can read it here.
And since you seem to love fun facts, here's one more: armor building upgrade and range upgrade do not solve any of the TvP lategame problems. And, once again, this comes from someone who does research those upgrades whenever I can afford them. But, see, your Supply Depot having 2 more armor does little to those 20 charge Zealots the Protoss warped to defend his base, nor does it scare that much this creepy little guy calling down thunder on your wounded bio. PFs still die in 4 seconds (okay, maybe 4.246 seconds with armor upgrade?) against a maxed army. There's nothing wrong about that, of course, but don't come and pretend it will change something. But then again, what do you expect from someone who does not even understand the gross imbalance of Khaydarin Amulet...
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On February 19 2012 08:18 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 08:09 Darknat wrote:
I think Blizzard should tell Protoss and Zerg players to L2P instead of nerfing Terran all the time. There's no motivator for Protoss and Zerg players to L2P when what they're losing to always gets nerfed. P and Z use every unit, every upgrade they have. Its time for terrans to do the same (= L2P), in order to win. And thanks to continues patching, it will happen.
If they actually make those units worth getting then yes but just nerfing other stuff while keeping unused and quite frankly bad stuff untouched will not make it more used ....
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APM change is really good. Concerning the Phenix change, as I'm a terran, I won't talk about it.
Terrans are really getting overnerfed now. I mean, there is no patch that didn't nerf terran, it's actually insane. A big amount of terrans are complaining for months against late game TvP which is incredible hard, but Blizzard prefered to buff Phenixes to beat mutas (which will completely negate them). The snipe is now disgusting, it's good against psionic units which leads to the fact that sniping is so much worth than EMP'ing Templars and Infestors (!), but late game vs Zerg will be incredibly hard for Terran (which is already very hard mainly because of the infestors). Terrans will again need to change their metagame and find new strategies (mass air/nukes).
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On February 19 2012 08:22 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:
Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win!
I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury of skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about. It's also funny how random Gold theorycrafters think they know more about a race they do not play than higher skilled players that actually main Terran. I'm pretty sure you could write an essay about how Reapers are the ultimate solution to lategame TvZ, but players (you know, people who play the game—not those who watch) know better than that. As a matter of fact, I made a post, page 166, about why other Terran options in lategame all have big problems. This comes from someone who plays the game and plays Terran, so I'm really sorry if it's something sensible. Anyway, you can read it here. And since you seem to love fun facts, here's one more: armor building upgrade and range upgrade do not solve any of the TvP lategame problems. And, once again, this comes from someone who does research those upgrades whenever I can afford them. But, see, your Supply Depot having 2 more armor does little to those 20 charge Zealots the Protoss warped to defend his base, nor does it scare that much this creepy little guy calling down thunder on your wounded bio. PFs still die in 4 seconds (okay, maybe 4.246 seconds with armor upgrade?) against a maxed army. There's nothing wrong about that, of course, but don't come and pretend it will change something. But then again, what do you expect from someone who does not even understand the gross imbalance of Khaydarin Amulet...
You know what? I dont really care about the problems YOU have in non-mirror MUs. All I care is, that this game is finally getting close to balanced. And it is.
After all, you are the terran player, so its YOUR job to find the solutions to your problems (= figure it out). Wasnt that the "advice" you gave us, when we were getting raped every game by a 90% winrate 1/1/1?
Having problems with storm, late game warpgate and broodlor/infestor? Well I'm sorry, figure it out.
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On February 19 2012 08:32 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 08:22 TheDwf wrote:On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:
Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win!
I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury of skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about. It's also funny how random Gold theorycrafters think they know more about a race they do not play than higher skilled players that actually main Terran. I'm pretty sure you could write an essay about how Reapers are the ultimate solution to lategame TvZ, but players (you know, people who play the game—not those who watch) know better than that. As a matter of fact, I made a post, page 166, about why other Terran options in lategame all have big problems. This comes from someone who plays the game and plays Terran, so I'm really sorry if it's something sensible. Anyway, you can read it here. And since you seem to love fun facts, here's one more: armor building upgrade and range upgrade do not solve any of the TvP lategame problems. And, once again, this comes from someone who does research those upgrades whenever I can afford them. But, see, your Supply Depot having 2 more armor does little to those 20 charge Zealots the Protoss warped to defend his base, nor does it scare that much this creepy little guy calling down thunder on your wounded bio. PFs still die in 4 seconds (okay, maybe 4.246 seconds with armor upgrade?) against a maxed army. There's nothing wrong about that, of course, but don't come and pretend it will change something. But then again, what do you expect from someone who does not even understand the gross imbalance of Khaydarin Amulet... You know what? I dont really car about the problems YOU have in non-mirror MUs. All I care is, that this game is finally getting close to balanced. And it is. After all, you are the terran player, so its YOUR job to find the solutions to your problems (= figure it out). Wasnt that the "advice" you gave us, when we were getting raped every game by a 90% winrate 1/1/1? Having problems with storm, late game warpgate and broodlor/infestor? Well I'm sorry, figure it out.
Or wait for the patch and lose horrible to it until then ......
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United States13143 Posts
On February 19 2012 08:32 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 08:22 TheDwf wrote:On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:
Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win!
I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury of skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about. It's also funny how random Gold theorycrafters think they know more about a race they do not play than higher skilled players that actually main Terran. I'm pretty sure you could write an essay about how Reapers are the ultimate solution to lategame TvZ, but players (you know, people who play the game—not those who watch) know better than that. As a matter of fact, I made a post, page 166, about why other Terran options in lategame all have big problems. This comes from someone who plays the game and plays Terran, so I'm really sorry if it's something sensible. Anyway, you can read it here. And since you seem to love fun facts, here's one more: armor building upgrade and range upgrade do not solve any of the TvP lategame problems. And, once again, this comes from someone who does research those upgrades whenever I can afford them. But, see, your Supply Depot having 2 more armor does little to those 20 charge Zealots the Protoss warped to defend his base, nor does it scare that much this creepy little guy calling down thunder on your wounded bio. PFs still die in 4 seconds (okay, maybe 4.246 seconds with armor upgrade?) against a maxed army. There's nothing wrong about that, of course, but don't come and pretend it will change something. But then again, what do you expect from someone who does not even understand the gross imbalance of Khaydarin Amulet... You know what? I dont really car about the problems YOU have in non-mirror MUs. All I care is, that this game is finally getting close to balanced. And it is. After all, you are the terran player, so its YOUR job to find the solutions to your problems (= figure it out). Wasnt that the "advice" you gave us, when we were getting raped every game by a 90% winrate 1/1/1? Having problems with storm, late game warpgate and broodlor/infestor? Well I'm sorry, figure it out.
So what you're doing is saying, "well why don't you experiment you lazy uncreative terrans", and then when people show you that they've experimented, you respond with "Hey GUESS WHAT, I don't care about the problems you have."
Stay classy.
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On February 19 2012 07:58 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:54 Empire.Beastyqt wrote:On February 19 2012 07:49 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:42 Elyvilon wrote:On February 19 2012 07:39 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:
[quote]
This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit.
I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it. Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched. Because the units that attack PFs tend to have high damage/attack and +2 armour doesn't do much against them. Also I have seen terrans research +2 building armour anyway as a super-lategame thing and it's made a very small difference, so. Its funny how protoss use all their units, except carriers. And even the mothership is now part of the standard late game play against zerg. But terrans, have ignore BCs, ravens, PFs with upgrades, medivac upgrades, and still win! I'd say, terrans are allowed to QQ after they have integrated all of this into their standard play, and it has proven to not be enough. As long as they have the luxury to skipping most of their potential, there is nothing to bitch about. Ravens are "ok" (10x worse than ht and infestor), but you are able to get them only if your opponent doesnt attack you for 15min so you can upgrade 500 upgrades needed for them just to throw HSM thats like 2 range and raven dies anyway. Bc's in terran army? it has dps of workers and anything that shoots air kills it - its only good for TvT and nothing else. PF's with upgrades would be good at 10-15min in game, late game it wont make any difference. Medivac upgrades, thats smart, we should upgrade medivacs so they spawn with more energy so HT would instantly 1 shot it /high five, vs zerg you use medivacs for drops and not to heal constantly and till drops arrive they have enough energy, same in TvT. But if you had a clue about terran I wouldnt even need to write this. Wait a second, I'm just gonna start a sad marine fan club, brb! Igraj bolje, ili gubi. Since we are in fact talking about TvZ (that is the reason all you terran players are QQing), the medivac upgrade makes a lot of sense. Just like marines, you WILL be losing madivacs all game long. And instead of having little energy, after you have built new ones, it would be smarter to research the upgrade, and have more energy to heal stims. Especially good versus mutas...
so many non-senses coming from you :p
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EPT
