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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything.
This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit.
I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided.
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On February 19 2012 07:11 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 06:41 PureBalls wrote:
You should have voiced your opinion, when the voidray was being robbed of its late game potential, or when KA was entirely removed, instead of nerfed. I'm afraid, now its too late. The KA had been shown over almost a year to be far too powerful. Instant storms combined with the warp-in mechanic? Please. All the pros agreed that the KA removal was flat out necessary. God, what a high-horse. I wonder what race you play.
Listen, we both know, that that is nothing but terran propaganda. There had to have been a + energy value for KA, that was not imbalanced.
And what about the voidray? Back when it had flux vanes, it was not a gimmicky all in unit with limited harass potential in PvZ, but rather a true "all game" (meaning also late game) unit.
Whatever, I'm going to stop now, before I get banned. But one last thing: it's too late to start complaining now, son. Your ghost is going to get fucked up hard, just like our units did. And there is nothing you can do about it.
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On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided.
There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them.
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On February 19 2012 07:19 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:11 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 06:41 PureBalls wrote:
You should have voiced your opinion, when the voidray was being robbed of its late game potential, or when KA was entirely removed, instead of nerfed. I'm afraid, now its too late. The KA had been shown over almost a year to be far too powerful. Instant storms combined with the warp-in mechanic? Please. All the pros agreed that the KA removal was flat out necessary. God, what a high-horse. I wonder what race you play. Listen, we both know, that that is nothing but terran propaganda. There had to have been a + energy value for KA, that was not imbalanced. And what about the voidray? Back when it had flux vanes, it was not a gimmicky all in unit with limited harass potential in PvZ, but rather a true "all game" (meaning also late game) unit. Whatever, I'm going to stop now, before I get banned. But one last thing: it's too late to start complaining now, son. Your ghost is going to get fucked up hard, just like our units did. And there is nothing you can do about it.
And you are? Lol I love protoss players (they think they are god's gift at starcraft)
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On February 17 2012 02:37 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2012 02:19 Dalavita wrote:On February 17 2012 01:12 Telenil wrote:On February 16 2012 22:41 Torra wrote:On February 16 2012 22:02 Telenil wrote:
True, but how often did you really use Snipe on these? You snipe corruptors when you snipe brood lords and I've seen zealots being Sniped on pro streams. But marines, marauders, reapers (who still die in 2 snipes), hydralisks? Maybe once. You don't go ghosts because you see your opponent going marines or hydras. Ghosts never really were versatile units in practice. About as often as terran can get to mass ghosts... Yup, and in TvT, that's never. So the amount of snipes it takes to kill a marauder shouldn't matter as far as balance is concerned. Even in TvZ, you usally get lots of ghosts only after the mutas have been cleared, and as Elyvilon points out, hydralisk are one of the least used units in the matchup. The "versatility" of Snipe is true on paper, not so much in a real game. On February 17 2012 00:43 K9GM3 wrote:
With this nerf to Snipe, the spell is going to be useful against one unit from each race: the High Templar, the Infestor and the Ghost itself. That's just not good design, especially if you consider that the problem lay solely with the Zerg's massive units – so why not just have it do 50 damage (-25 vs. Massive)? It doesn't sound absurd, although since this is similar to the planned nerf as far as brood lords and ultralisks are concerned, in what situation would it help? Fast ghosts rush in TvT? Baneling-sniping in TvZ? I don't play terran, so it is a genuine question. Is there any (serious) strategy that would significantly benefit from 50 -25 vs massive rather than 25 +25 vs psionic? The current metagame doesn't house hydras or ghosts sniping marauders. By killing off snipe you ensure that it'll never open up the possbility for that to happen, and thus, the game gets that much staler. On February 17 2012 01:53 Big J wrote:On February 17 2012 01:37 PandaMonk wrote:
@s3rp if, as a zerg you face ravenviking ghost we ALSO have to babysit 3 untis, we have to split our corrupters,BLS, and infestors to avoid the emp/HSM (HSM RAPES clumped up BL's), we also have to cast corruption, bl kite and cast infestor spells, it seems like a pretty even trade (in terms of micro). Just feel like ghostviking ghost is really off the natural tech path, so a more awkward transition... dont say such things... banelings split themselves and target marines, zerglings autosurround, corruptors avoid marine groups on their own, ITs are spammed without any clicks, support units swarm in on their own, flanks are always pre set up, infestors burrow on their own when their fungal job is done, zerg units targetfire always, broodlord AI makes them retreat without commands if they face air superiority, runbys are random occurences that have nothing to do with poking and scouting, magic box is a passive ability and mutalisks are programed to find weak spots on their own... how can you even say that a zerg unit needs to be controlled. havent you heard what those who dont play zerg say? That's probably the worst bleeding heart strawman I've ever seen. Congratulations. a strawman is meant to be an argument... making a post that makes fun of some Terrans who think zerg doesnt need control and is easy is not, just a little fun (read through the last hundred pages if you don't believe that some Terrans state this). check your dictionary first, next time you post such a word.
It's not the same though. Terran micro is such a pain in the ass. Everything needs to be micro'd all the time. At least that's how it feels.
The skill cap on Terran micro is almost unlimited, that's why (IMO) terran will always have a racial edge at the very top levels of play. But make Terran less advantagous for everyone else.
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My mind is boggled at the fact that snipe does not 1 shot zerglings anymore. +3 weapons makes ghosts auto shots do more damage to non-psionic i believe.
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On February 19 2012 07:21 xUnSeEnx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:19 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 06:41 PureBalls wrote:
You should have voiced your opinion, when the voidray was being robbed of its late game potential, or when KA was entirely removed, instead of nerfed. I'm afraid, now its too late. The KA had been shown over almost a year to be far too powerful. Instant storms combined with the warp-in mechanic? Please. All the pros agreed that the KA removal was flat out necessary. God, what a high-horse. I wonder what race you play. Listen, we both know, that that is nothing but terran propaganda. There had to have been a + energy value for KA, that was not imbalanced. And what about the voidray? Back when it had flux vanes, it was not a gimmicky all in unit with limited harass potential in PvZ, but rather a true "all game" (meaning also late game) unit. Whatever, I'm going to stop now, before I get banned. But one last thing: it's too late to start complaining now, son. Your ghost is going to get fucked up hard, just like our units did. And there is nothing you can do about it. And you are? Lol I love protoss players (they think they are god's gift at starcraft)
You should have picked protoss, they're the master race. Protoss being OP is in accordance to the lore. 
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On February 19 2012 07:25 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:21 xUnSeEnx wrote:On February 19 2012 07:19 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 06:41 PureBalls wrote:
You should have voiced your opinion, when the voidray was being robbed of its late game potential, or when KA was entirely removed, instead of nerfed. I'm afraid, now its too late. The KA had been shown over almost a year to be far too powerful. Instant storms combined with the warp-in mechanic? Please. All the pros agreed that the KA removal was flat out necessary. God, what a high-horse. I wonder what race you play. Listen, we both know, that that is nothing but terran propaganda. There had to have been a + energy value for KA, that was not imbalanced. And what about the voidray? Back when it had flux vanes, it was not a gimmicky all in unit with limited harass potential in PvZ, but rather a true "all game" (meaning also late game) unit. Whatever, I'm going to stop now, before I get banned. But one last thing: it's too late to start complaining now, son. Your ghost is going to get fucked up hard, just like our units did. And there is nothing you can do about it. And you are? Lol I love protoss players (they think they are god's gift at starcraft) You should have picked protoss, they're the master race. Protoss being OP is in accordance to the lore.
No its just funny, I was reading your posts and you honestly seem to have no clue about this game, good day bronzy ;p
(Also I play zerg so I do not think toss is "OP" Lol...)
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On February 19 2012 07:25 OrangeSoda wrote:
My mind is boggled at the fact that snipe does not 1 shot zerglings anymore. +3 weapons makes ghosts auto shots do more damage to non-psionic i believe.
No, only vs light. Against non-light targets, ghost auto-fire has only half the DPS.
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On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided.
Blizzard has gone over the top with the ghost nerf... but something did have to be done... Ghosts were just too strong, handful of ghosts were sniping out mass BL armies it was imbalanced.
On the other side of it, Blizz is nerfing them to death with this patch, they went way overboard. IMO they should do *Slightly* less against massive units so they weren't completely imba against zerg.
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you cant have both superior DPS Units and Superior Tanking units... so what is the bitching for?
i.e. the marauder is already a brain dead unit, that screws the game.
And what the hell is it with upgrades don't synergises with terran, as far as i am aware all upgrades make the bio ball better and better and still makes them able to compete against fully teched protoss maxxed armies, when played right.
when is terran player "forced" to switch to a different composition? like a protoss or zerg is forced always....
in almost every game i see TvX it is the terran dictating the gameflow.
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On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them.
The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ?
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On February 19 2012 07:27 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. Blizzard has gone over the top with the ghost nerf... but something did have to be done... Ghosts were just too strong, handful of ghosts were sniping out mass BL armies it was imbalanced. On the other side of it, Blizz is nerfing them to death with this patch, they went way overboard. IMO they should do *Slightly* less against massive units so they weren't completely imba against zerg.
I agree, tech switching will be a pain to deal with now late game for terran. Mass ghosts was too strong but definitely needed something nerfed, ( I suggested 45 -20 to 25 Massive) but it seems like Blizzard is approaching it with nerfing a race's late game. My only concern (as a zerg), is that now terrans will literally all-in every single game to avoid late-game zerg which is understandable but meh not interesting.
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On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ?
No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago.
However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran.
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On February 19 2012 07:28 freetgy wrote:
you cant have both superior DPS Units and Superior Tanking units... so what is the bitching for?
i.e. the marauder is already a brain dead unit, that screws the game.
And what the hell is it with upgrades don't synergises with terran, as far as i am aware all upgrades make the bio ball better and better and still makes them able to compete against fully teched protoss maxxed armies, when played right.
when is terran player "forced" to switch to a different composition? like a protoss or zerg is forced always....
in almost every game i see TvX it is the terran dictating the gameflow.
its not just that simple.... Also as a Toss player I'd say we have pretty damn good tanking unit in the immortal..
but more on point. The problem is not that they are forced to switch, its that they can't switch. if you have 3/3 bio switching to mech with 0/0 is going to suck and vice versa. the way their upgrades work kinda forces them down on tech path for the entire game. Which flat out sucks.
Also, though having super high dps units(Marine) and good tanking units. They are really only viable early mid game. Once it gets towards the late game its hard. Which is why I love getting PvT's on ladder right now  turtle till late game and switch between ht and collosi and immortals depending on the viking and ghost counts. Granted its not broken as bad as most Terran players like to bitch about, its far from a free win late game. its just a touch easier. Which imo is a very welcome change seeing as Terrans have had it easy as fuck for the last year..../Rant
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[QUOTE]On February 11 2012 02:06 wichenks wrote:
APM / CPM changes
There was a lot of concern and debate regarding whether APM should be an accurate number or it should be a fun, play style distinguishing factor like it has been traditionally. After hearing a lot of feedback from both sides, we decided to bring back classic APM, and change our current APM (that doesn’t count spam clicks) to be called Commands Per Minute, or CPM.
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i find it hilarious that blizzard thinks that their apm was the correct form of apm, and that now they are refixing what they broke and are now the heros that they fix what they messed up in the first place.
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On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran.
I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg. Something you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it.
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On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it.
Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched.
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United States13143 Posts
On February 19 2012 07:39 PureBalls wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 07:37 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:32 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:29 s3rp wrote:On February 19 2012 07:21 PureBalls wrote:On February 19 2012 07:15 Honeybadger wrote:On February 19 2012 07:11 s3rp wrote:
Right now they're patching everything towards hardcountering and making those things useless against basically everything they're not supposed to counter . And it's making the game worse and worse . In HOTS they should just get rid of basically every +damaged to specific armor or least most of it and adjust the units accordingly. Not every race has the capeabilities to switch up counters fast enough with also keeping up upgrades on everything. This is the crux of the problem. Terran has no synergy with upgrades, more upgrades than any of the other races to pursue, and downright awful techswitching abilities. Zerg have instant remax abilities and protoss has mass warp-in of a tier 3 unit that can become a potent tank, or if left alone for a few seconds, an AOE slaughterhouse of a unit. I'm not asking for a macro mechanic, I'm asking for some level of synergy in my composition, that until recently, the ghost very reasonably provided. There are too many things, that never get used in the terran arsenal, so stop asking, and start using them. The game is almost 2 year old don't you think they had been tried at at least some point and got abandoned because they just are not very good ? No, I dont think so. There was no need for it, since in TvP bio was always enough, and in TvZ Tank/Rine was more than enough till a couple of months ago. However, I'm talking about things like, splitting the map in half in the late game. Building PFs, researching range and armor for buildings. Those sort of things, that you NEVER see from a terran. I don't know what games you are watching but this happens pretty regularly if you get into the lategame with enough ecomoy to spare. Building defensive PF's and rearching those upgrades are like building a spinecrawler wall for the Zerg you can't do without the proper infrastrure to support it. Yeah, PFs do get build once in a while, but those upgrades never get researched.
Because the units that attack PFs tend to have high damage/attack and +2 armour doesn't do much against them.
Also I have seen terrans research +2 building armour anyway as a super-lategame thing and it's made a very small difference, so.
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Can people fucking stop going after statistics. The problem is that the only way to counter 3/3 marines and 3/0 tanks on 200 supply is by going infestor broodlord, everythihng else melts. Though if you add ghosts you can just snipe the entire T3 and zerg can't do shit.
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EPT
