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On February 01 2012 09:01 Zyphen wrote:I find it funny. I'm against affirmative action in principle but this whole thing just amuses me to no end. Who says white dudes get the short end of the stick? Take a look at Berkeley right after they dropped racial quotas. It just exploded with Asians. My Indian friend is pissed he got wait-listed by Harvard because they still incorporate that archaic practice.
What is the difference between your Indian friend and Asians?
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I went with code A by accident, I think it's better as is.
If foreign players ever get their asses into gear, it will have been a good investment.
On a side note, it seems like EG brings in good players and ruins them.
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On February 01 2012 09:06 Zyphen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 09:02 Dexington wrote:On February 01 2012 08:49 Zyphen wrote:On February 01 2012 07:40 rafaliusz wrote:On February 01 2012 03:27 Zyphen wrote:On February 01 2012 02:39 iky43210 wrote:
Huk and idra are not the only foreigner in gsl... there are still hopes.
Sen, morrow, xigua, macseed, and hero are still in it! they can still make it to code S When people say "foreigners", they really mean "white dudes". Of those, only morrow qualifies as such. You can go through dozens of posts without Sen and foreigner being mentioned in the same sentence, if at all. "White dudes" do not see Sen as their representative. It's just the truth. That being said; good job Sen! I'm rooting for you. Sen's been a part of our foreign scene and has been participating in out events for roughly 10 years. You may not remember that tho.He is a foreigner by all means and he represents me. Agree on the chinese part tho, their scene always been separated from foreign one but I'm still interested how would chinese players do against koreans. Huh? You realize Sen is chinese right? And chinese aren't "foreigners"? I know what you're trying to say but cognitive dissonance permeates throughout the board on this subject. Sen is more acceptable to most people because he speaks English and participates in more western events (especially in recent years) than other pros from China/Taiwan. Someone like Select is accepted similarly along those lines. Though, if you read enough posts, you'll realize there's a fine distinction made by most people, which sometimes get spelled out by the more honest (Select is ethnically Korean). If you truly believe Sen represents "foreigners", you're in the minority along with me. Congratulations for having, in my opinion, a more enlightened view. Take the reaction to today's results for example. The vast majority of comments both here and in the GSL thread are about how Huk and Idra lost, not how Sen won. I guarantee you that people would be much less gloomy if say Sen and Huk lost and Idra won. Don't be naive. Take a look at who make up the fan bases, how big their fanclubs are, and how many people even choose to acknowledge Sen's accomplishments for the foreign scene vs an Idra or Huk or Jinro or Naniwa, etc... I posed a question about people's responses to Loner (chinese player) back in GSL's infancy and I got some very honest responses (which I appreciate). If you care to read them, they're probably still attached to my post history. People identify by race/ethnicity, culture, and language, in that order. Sen is Taiwanese Right, like that makes all the difference. Thank you for missing the point completely. And for the record, he's about as different from a "Chinese" person as a North Korean is from a South Korean. Same ethnicity, culture, and language with a different form of government. Whoop-dee-doo. There's a bigger difference between the Irish, Scots, and Welsh.
Be more ethnocentric.
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On February 01 2012 09:11 bearhug wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 09:01 Zyphen wrote:On February 01 2012 07:48 Fus wrote:Stop seeding foreigners, it's racism  I find it funny. I'm against affirmative action in principle but this whole thing just amuses me to no end. Who says white dudes get the short end of the stick? Take a look at Berkeley right after they dropped racial quotas. It just exploded with Asians. My Indian friend is pissed he got wait-listed by Harvard because they still incorporate that archaic practice. What is the difference between your Indian friend and Asians?
Nothing, according to the U.S. education system. Though some schools are making an attempt at differentiating between East and South Asians. I don't know why they bother because I have a friend who's a professor of Financial Engineering at Columbia who says it makes no difference whatsoever to admissions (it all goes in the Asians "box"). I blame the government ultimately for the quota system.
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On February 01 2012 09:03 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 09:01 Sub40APM wrote:
So are Huk and Idra leaving Korea or are they going to try to Jinro it back to GSL? I think the problem with the whole foreigner thing -- as someone else pointed out in this thread -- is that foreigners lack the infrastructure to just go and sit around on the Korean ladder for 6 months before actually playing a televised game. And if that is the reality then why not go back to NA where the pickings are easy and they can finish top 10 at an MLG, especially if the best Koreans dont come out because of GSL commitments, and collect a steady paycheck and a successful stream revenue? As semi-pro streamers like Destiny show its possible to make a pretty solid revenue stream without ever actually being a consistently good player. I'm pretty sure Idra is moving back and Huk is staying. Idra didn't want to stay in Korea long-term any ways.
makes sense -- easy top 5 MLG finish for him, and probably dominate some foreigner only invite tournaments.
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I think giving them up and down placement automatically is what it should be. The time the players who got the automatic seeds spent in Korea I dont feel was long enough to have too much of an impact. Given more time over there though an more participation in GSL will surely help them especially IdrA who has before made it to the Ro8 in GSL(s) (Not sure if it was more then the one time). Now I know Huk has been over there awhile but has also shown that foreigners can maintain a high ranking in GSL code S having been in it multiple times though now he's knocked out it happens sometimes. All I'm trying to say is that foreigners getting automatic seeds isn't terrible but up and downs would be better. (Sorry shit grammar I know though I never claimed I was great with it lol.)
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On February 01 2012 09:14 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 09:03 ZAiNs wrote:On February 01 2012 09:01 Sub40APM wrote:
So are Huk and Idra leaving Korea or are they going to try to Jinro it back to GSL? I think the problem with the whole foreigner thing -- as someone else pointed out in this thread -- is that foreigners lack the infrastructure to just go and sit around on the Korean ladder for 6 months before actually playing a televised game. And if that is the reality then why not go back to NA where the pickings are easy and they can finish top 10 at an MLG, especially if the best Koreans dont come out because of GSL commitments, and collect a steady paycheck and a successful stream revenue? As semi-pro streamers like Destiny show its possible to make a pretty solid revenue stream without ever actually being a consistently good player. I'm pretty sure Idra is moving back and Huk is staying. Idra didn't want to stay in Korea long-term any ways. makes sense -- easy top 5 MLG finish for him, and probably dominate some foreigner only invite tournaments.
He killed it at IEM Guangzhou an that also had Koreans an Chinese invited as well.
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On February 01 2012 09:23 Catatonic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 09:14 Sub40APM wrote:On February 01 2012 09:03 ZAiNs wrote:On February 01 2012 09:01 Sub40APM wrote:
So are Huk and Idra leaving Korea or are they going to try to Jinro it back to GSL? I think the problem with the whole foreigner thing -- as someone else pointed out in this thread -- is that foreigners lack the infrastructure to just go and sit around on the Korean ladder for 6 months before actually playing a televised game. And if that is the reality then why not go back to NA where the pickings are easy and they can finish top 10 at an MLG, especially if the best Koreans dont come out because of GSL commitments, and collect a steady paycheck and a successful stream revenue? As semi-pro streamers like Destiny show its possible to make a pretty solid revenue stream without ever actually being a consistently good player. I'm pretty sure Idra is moving back and Huk is staying. Idra didn't want to stay in Korea long-term any ways. makes sense -- easy top 5 MLG finish for him, and probably dominate some foreigner only invite tournaments. He killed it at IEM Guangzhou an that also had Koreans an Chinese invited as well.
Puma, JYP, Revival and Rain.
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Oh god, these threads keep coming. People need to stop reading too much into single bo3s.
First off, to make broad assertions about foreigners in the GSL based on yesterdays games is ridiculous. Huk has spent months in Korea, and he certainly hasn't been losing all his games (he's beaten many top Koreans, and he's been beaten by many top Koreans). This time last year no one could say that IdrA wasn't one of the best players in the world, and while he's had his ups and downs since then, he's beaten many top Koreans in many tournaments since then.
The reality of it is that when you're playing at this top level anything goes. Idra and Huk didn't play their best. Sen played well and advanced. It's as simple as that.
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I personally don't see the point in giving seeds to foreigners. If they really want to play in the GSL, they will just have to put in the effort and find a way to qualify by themselves. Having so many of these foreigners be given seeds, and then just having them drop out looks bad, especially when it just doesn't seem like they were very prepared. Having players like Idra making rude comments about his opponent doesn't look very good either.
There are plenty of international tournaments for foreigners, I don't see a reason for them to have to play in the GSL.
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On February 01 2012 09:28 naggerNZ wrote:
Oh god, these threads keep coming. People need to stop reading too much into single bo3s.
First off, to make broad assertions about foreigners in the GSL based on yesterdays games is ridiculous. Huk has spent months in Korea, and he certainly hasn't been losing all his games (he's beaten many top Koreans, and he's been beaten by many top Koreans). This time last year no one could say that IdrA wasn't one of the best players in the world, and while he's had his ups and downs since then, he's beaten many top Koreans in many tournaments since then.
The reality of it is that when you're playing at this top level anything goes. Idra and Huk didn't play their best. Sen played well and advanced. It's as simple as that.
They are hardly playing at a top level, they are basically b teamers
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On February 01 2012 00:44 pStar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +stop giving foreigners seeds. We are terrible. Just look at HuK and idrAs play today. wasn't even close to the Korean's they were playing ( to be fairt hough, Sen played reasonably well)
May seem harsh, but just my opinion.
It doesn't seem harsh, it seems retarded.
HuK is in Code A because last GSL he didn't get to Code S Ro8. He beat Puzzle, Clide and Nestea, and then lost twice to Leenock, and Keen (both pretty quality players). Today he had the worst last 2 maps for PvZ and got cheesed on the last one, with a near unscoutable cheese that would beat all other Protoss if unscouted. Therefore he isn't close to the level of Bumblebee who has never made Code S before. Yeah, nah.
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i say give code a seeds, it gives them a chance to prove their material for the gsl without having too much of a cost. this has nothing to do with race or anything because the gsl is based entirely on whether you win or not, ther's no subjectivity at all. If you win youll get code s.
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I love watching foreigner vs korean so ofc id like to see the foreginers keep getting seeded in, makes the viewing much more pleasant. As said before, it's just 2 out of 32 players and there are a couple of koreans every season that doesnt impress more the the seeded foreigners.
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Keep it fair, imo. No handouts for just being foreign, unless GOM really needs the money from the foreign viewership.. which they don't.
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Only Code A, but I'd be alright with only Up/Downs. Really, foreigners should earn their spot through the qualifiers and prove that they can hang with the best. HuK is the ony foreigner who has recently showed that he can consistently beat the Code S level players, but the rest of them have dropped like flies. Foreigner seeds into Code A or Up/Downs will help viewership anyways, no need to bring untested players to the big stage.
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Code S I think is a little bit much, but think about it from GOM's perspective: putting IdrA or Huk or Naniwa or Stephano or FotM player xyz into Code S makes it that much better a deal for foreign viewers... and if they do well, people might buy tickets to watch VODs... And think of the FIFA World Cup which isn't necessarily the best countries in the world duking it out, but rather the best of each region (I mean Ghana isn't going to win, but don't you rather have a World event than just European teams?)
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On February 01 2012 09:44 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 00:44 pStar wrote:+ Show Spoiler +stop giving foreigners seeds. We are terrible. Just look at HuK and idrAs play today. wasn't even close to the Korean's they were playing ( to be fairt hough, Sen played reasonably well)
May seem harsh, but just my opinion. It doesn't seem harsh, it seems retarded. HuK is in Code A because last GSL he didn't get to Code S Ro8. He beat Puzzle, Clide and Nestea, and then lost twice to Leenock, and Keen (both pretty quality players). Today he had the worst last 2 maps for PvZ and got cheesed on the last one, with a near unscoutable cheese that would beat all other Protoss if unscouted. Therefore he isn't close to the level of Bumblebee who has never made Code S before. Yeah, nah.
That's how GSL should work? You play well, you stay in. You don't play well, or don't practice, or focus on another game for a few weeks, you drop out. If HuK still has the Code S quality in him, he'll regain his Code S spot like he did before. But last night he was not on par with the Koreans.
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How can people even be fans of such trashy players?
When was the last time you've seen a thoroughly top level impressive game from any of these people?
When was the time any of these players have played on the level of:
MVP MMA Jjakji Nestea DRG Leenock?
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I'm pretty sure GOM has its reasons for increasing the number of seeds to foreigners in recent GSL tournaments. (from 1 code s/4 code a to 2 code s/5 code a).
I would like to assume a major reason why this is happening is that they see a spike in the amount of viewership every time a foreigner player plays. I for one haven't watched GSL for a month before yesterday simply because there were no foreigners playing. Seems like the silent majority thing is going on here. I've never really understood the anti-foreigner sentiment in TL (maybe it's a remainder from the BW watching days), but i'm used to it. However you guys need to remember that there are many more people watching SC2 who dont actually go to TL, and does it not occur to all of you here that these people may want to see foreigners in the GSL. I know many friends who watch the GSL but hate to come to TL because of a variety of reasons, and from what i can tell, they're interest in the tournament increases ten fold whenever a foreigner is playing.
So my vote is for the system to remain how it is. In an ideal world, I would prefer the GSL to have regional online qualifiers for the US/Europe/Rest of Asia for each tournament, with about 1/3 of the places reserved for these qualifiers. The remaining places will be determined by the normal offline qualifiers in Korea. I mean, they are calling it the Global Starcraft League right? If not they'll slowly lose ground to other growing tournaments that are adopting a better approach in terms of player composition (i.e. IPL, MLG).
The main problem with the GSL is that it's a month long competition that requires months of practice in Korea to prepare. For most foreigners a code A spot will simply not entice them enough to stay 2-3 months in a new country. They'd rather compete in the IEM's/IPL's/MLG's that end in 3-4 days.
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EPT
