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On January 31 2012 22:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:
Either disqualify him and make it clear OR give him his deserved 2nd place IMO.
They more or less did disqualify him, they just gave him 4th to be lenient since it wasn't in the rules. He really just gave up any claim to money when he decided he didn't have to play the tournament out.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 31 2012 22:33 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:11 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 19:46 Detwiler wrote:
I mean seriously everyone is it really to much to ask that the players dont drop out of the freakin final of a tournament I mean wtf how is that an odd expectation or people feeling entitled to anything? He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. I doubt any team manager or coach would field a player when he is falling off the bench out of exhaustion. Said player would face the consequences of failing to manage his schedule properly. It was Stephanos duty to be properly prepared for a tournament he participates in, and he didn't. That is the offense. Not him quitting. Players fight to get back in the game, even when they're injured.
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On January 31 2012 22:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:28 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 21:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 21:49 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:44 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:39 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:35 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:30 MonsterJukeBox wrote:
Lol, he basically gave up 1500 dollars because he wanted to sleep. Doesn't make sense to me. He would not have won the final if he was too tired. And imagine you just ear ed 100 dollars. Why would you try to play like shit for 5 dollars? If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. He was not supposed to win the prize of 4th place as he was qualified for the final. He did not know beforehand and 600 dollars when you just got 100k... I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. They could have played a showmatch and it would have been the right choice. You cannot just take away his second place and put him in 4th place. How is Illusion #2. He lost to Stephano in the semis, but I don't want to blame ONOG. They had to make a decision on the fly and fast, so.. they will learn from it and probably cast from replays next time. Illusion is obviously 2nd because he played in the finals. Stephano didn't, so I don't know where you're getting your idea that he's 2nd? See, there's two pespectives to this, one isn't more right than the other, so it was ONOGs decision. There are no two perspectives on it. Stephano is technically 2nd because he reached the finals and did give a default win to Kas. Illusion LOST to Stephano in a single elimination tournament so the best he could reach at that point is 3rd place. If you or any other person in the world don't want to understand it or simply ignore it, please do but don't tell me that Illusion actually deserved or got 2nd place, because its not true. ONOG decided to change the tournament format after Stephano did forfeit and only PUNISHED Stephano for that in the heat of the battle if you ask me. To the person who asked me if I wanted to happen stuff like this again and if I think Stephano should be punished. No I don't want this to happen again thats why I said you need contracts between players and tournament hosts and a punishment would be to just do not invite him again, but as I already said as well, I do think the tournament would hurt themselves as Stephano is a good player and pulls lots of viewers. As Arew said in another thread, ONOG is simply stealing money from Stephano at this point. Either disqualify him and make it clear OR give him his deserved 2nd place IMO. To Jibba: In ANY sports an athlete an forfeit at any point if he thinks he's incapable of completing the task or cannot finish the match. If a national soccer team cannot continue due to exhaustion they will forfeit the match. Obviously they will try but its a far bigger stage and usually its not 1v1 but teamgames. In boxing / fighting if you don't feel in good condition you forfeit or postpone. Stephano offered to postpone / reschedule and that wasn't possible so he did forfeit. How often have you seen boxing matches been rescheduled, just because one of the fighters wasn't fit at that point. It happened before. Technical k.O? Same story. The boxer wants to fight, but he cannot so he 'has' to or will be forced to forfeit. Stephano probably wanted to play, but he was tired so he couldn't really play.
Exactly. There is no "interpretation" of results. If Stephano would have forfeited the 3rd/4th match he still would be guaranteed the prize of the 4th place. And there would be no "but fans really wanted to see him play, so in order to punish him, we take away the 4th place from him and let the 5th seed move up and play it out again to create more games"
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On January 31 2012 22:43 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:33 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:11 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 19:46 Detwiler wrote:
I mean seriously everyone is it really to much to ask that the players dont drop out of the freakin final of a tournament I mean wtf how is that an odd expectation or people feeling entitled to anything? He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. I doubt any team manager or coach would field a player when he is falling off the bench out of exhaustion. Said player would face the consequences of failing to manage his schedule properly. It was Stephanos duty to be properly prepared for a tournament he participates in, and he didn't. That is the offense. Not him quitting. Players fight to get back in the game, even when they're injured.
That is their decision.
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How often have you seen boxing matches been rescheduled, just because one of the fighters wasn't fit at that point. It happened before.
lol, do you follow boxing? Assuming the venue is already booked when a boxer pulls out, they just find another boxer as replacement. Sure, they might 're-schedule' the fight at some later date but it is done as a totally seperate event eventhough the 'name' of the event is the same since boxing events using the headliners names for promotion.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 31 2012 22:44 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:43 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:33 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:11 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 19:46 Detwiler wrote:
I mean seriously everyone is it really to much to ask that the players dont drop out of the freakin final of a tournament I mean wtf how is that an odd expectation or people feeling entitled to anything? He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. I doubt any team manager or coach would field a player when he is falling off the bench out of exhaustion. Said player would face the consequences of failing to manage his schedule properly. It was Stephanos duty to be properly prepared for a tournament he participates in, and he didn't. That is the offense. Not him quitting. Players fight to get back in the game, even when they're injured. That is their decision.
Yes, and we respect them more as competitors for it. I'm arguing Stephano doesn't deserve that respect.
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On January 31 2012 22:44 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 22:28 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 21:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 21:49 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:44 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:39 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:35 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:30 MonsterJukeBox wrote:
Lol, he basically gave up 1500 dollars because he wanted to sleep. Doesn't make sense to me. He would not have won the final if he was too tired. And imagine you just ear ed 100 dollars. Why would you try to play like shit for 5 dollars? If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. He was not supposed to win the prize of 4th place as he was qualified for the final. He did not know beforehand and 600 dollars when you just got 100k... I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. They could have played a showmatch and it would have been the right choice. You cannot just take away his second place and put him in 4th place. How is Illusion #2. He lost to Stephano in the semis, but I don't want to blame ONOG. They had to make a decision on the fly and fast, so.. they will learn from it and probably cast from replays next time. Illusion is obviously 2nd because he played in the finals. Stephano didn't, so I don't know where you're getting your idea that he's 2nd? See, there's two pespectives to this, one isn't more right than the other, so it was ONOGs decision. There are no two perspectives on it. Stephano is technically 2nd because he reached the finals and did give a default win to Kas. Illusion LOST to Stephano in a single elimination tournament so the best he could reach at that point is 3rd place. If you or any other person in the world don't want to understand it or simply ignore it, please do but don't tell me that Illusion actually deserved or got 2nd place, because its not true. ONOG decided to change the tournament format after Stephano did forfeit and only PUNISHED Stephano for that in the heat of the battle if you ask me. To the person who asked me if I wanted to happen stuff like this again and if I think Stephano should be punished. No I don't want this to happen again thats why I said you need contracts between players and tournament hosts and a punishment would be to just do not invite him again, but as I already said as well, I do think the tournament would hurt themselves as Stephano is a good player and pulls lots of viewers. As Arew said in another thread, ONOG is simply stealing money from Stephano at this point. Either disqualify him and make it clear OR give him his deserved 2nd place IMO. To Jibba: In ANY sports an athlete an forfeit at any point if he thinks he's incapable of completing the task or cannot finish the match. If a national soccer team cannot continue due to exhaustion they will forfeit the match. Obviously they will try but its a far bigger stage and usually its not 1v1 but teamgames. In boxing / fighting if you don't feel in good condition you forfeit or postpone. Stephano offered to postpone / reschedule and that wasn't possible so he did forfeit. How often have you seen boxing matches been rescheduled, just because one of the fighters wasn't fit at that point. It happened before. Technical k.O? Same story. The boxer wants to fight, but he cannot so he 'has' to or will be forced to forfeit. Stephano probably wanted to play, but he was tired so he couldn't really play. Exactly. There is no "interpretation" of results. If Stephano would have forfeited the 3rd/4th match he still would be guaranteed the prize of the 4th place. And there would be no "but fans really wanted to see him play, so in order to punish him, we take away the 4th place from him and let the 5th seed move up and play it out again to create more games"
The same day, when the venue is crowded? No, they don't "postpone".
And seriously, boxing is dangerous for your health and safety if you "participate" while tired or sick. Playing SC2 is not.
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On January 31 2012 22:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:28 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 21:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 21:49 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:44 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:39 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:35 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:30 MonsterJukeBox wrote:
Lol, he basically gave up 1500 dollars because he wanted to sleep. Doesn't make sense to me. He would not have won the final if he was too tired. And imagine you just ear ed 100 dollars. Why would you try to play like shit for 5 dollars? If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. He was not supposed to win the prize of 4th place as he was qualified for the final. He did not know beforehand and 600 dollars when you just got 100k... I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. They could have played a showmatch and it would have been the right choice. You cannot just take away his second place and put him in 4th place. How is Illusion #2. He lost to Stephano in the semis, but I don't want to blame ONOG. They had to make a decision on the fly and fast, so.. they will learn from it and probably cast from replays next time. Illusion is obviously 2nd because he played in the finals. Stephano didn't, so I don't know where you're getting your idea that he's 2nd? See, there's two pespectives to this, one isn't more right than the other, so it was ONOGs decision. + Show Spoiler +
There are no two perspectives on it. Stephano is technically 2nd because he reached the finals and did give a default win to Kas. Illusion LOST to Stephano in a single elimination tournament so the best he could reach at that point is 3rd place. If you or any other person in the world don't want to understand it or simply ignore it, please do but don't tell me that Illusion actually deserved or got 2nd place, because its not true.
ONOG decided to change the tournament format after Stephano did forfeit and only PUNISHED Stephano for that in the heat of the battle if you ask me.
To the person who asked me if I wanted to happen stuff like this again and if I think Stephano should be punished. No I don't want this to happen again thats why I said you need contracts between players and tournament hosts and a punishment would be to just do not invite him again, but as I already said as well, I do think the tournament would hurt themselves as Stephano is a good player and pulls lots of viewers.
As Arew said in another thread, ONOG is simply stealing money from Stephano at this point. Either disqualify him and make it clear OR give him his deserved 2nd place IMO.
To Jibba: In ANY sports an athlete an forfeit at any point if he thinks he's incapable of completing the task or cannot finish the match. If a national soccer team cannot continue due to exhaustion they will forfeit the match. Obviously they will try but its a far bigger stage and usually its not 1v1 but teamgames.
In boxing / fighting if you don't feel in good condition you forfeit or postpone. Stephano offered to postpone / reschedule and that wasn't possible so he did forfeit. How often have you seen boxing matches been rescheduled, just because one of the fighters wasn't fit at that point. It happened before.
Technical k.O? Same story. The boxer wants to fight, but he cannot so he 'has' to or will be forced to forfeit. Stephano probably wanted to play, but he was tired so he couldn't really play.
You're wrong on two accounts. Firstly, ONOG didn't think it as punishment for Stephano that he got fourth. Put yourself in their shoes, they have 20000 on stream and a bunch of barcrafts paying for the tournament and no final. They need a player for the final, but Stephano is already using up the 2nd place prize money so no-one wants to play Kas if loser doesn't get paid for it. The worst of this is that if Kas loses the final, he'll also doesn't receive 2nd place money. Your position is much too narrow-minded to be tenable.
As for "the right to forfeit", it has been shown countless times in this thread and the LR thread that it is not the case. And I for one am tired of regurgitating the same arguments for the sake of people that rather lash out than bother to read some pages of thread on a topic if they were actually interested in.
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On January 31 2012 22:45 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:44 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:43 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:33 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:11 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 19:46 Detwiler wrote:
I mean seriously everyone is it really to much to ask that the players dont drop out of the freakin final of a tournament I mean wtf how is that an odd expectation or people feeling entitled to anything? He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. I doubt any team manager or coach would field a player when he is falling off the bench out of exhaustion. Said player would face the consequences of failing to manage his schedule properly. It was Stephanos duty to be properly prepared for a tournament he participates in, and he didn't. That is the offense. Not him quitting. Players fight to get back in the game, even when they're injured. That is their decision. Yes, and we respect them more as competitors for it. I'm arguing Stephano doesn't deserve that respect.
Yes, and others argue that going from X gets more respect for doing something therefore Y doesn't deserve any is treating players as your personal puppet.
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On January 31 2012 22:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:28 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 21:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 21:49 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:44 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:39 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:35 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:30 MonsterJukeBox wrote:
Lol, he basically gave up 1500 dollars because he wanted to sleep. Doesn't make sense to me. He would not have won the final if he was too tired. And imagine you just ear ed 100 dollars. Why would you try to play like shit for 5 dollars? If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. He was not supposed to win the prize of 4th place as he was qualified for the final. He did not know beforehand and 600 dollars when you just got 100k... I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. They could have played a showmatch and it would have been the right choice. You cannot just take away his second place and put him in 4th place. How is Illusion #2. He lost to Stephano in the semis, but I don't want to blame ONOG. They had to make a decision on the fly and fast, so.. they will learn from it and probably cast from replays next time. Illusion is obviously 2nd because he played in the finals. Stephano didn't, so I don't know where you're getting your idea that he's 2nd? See, there's two pespectives to this, one isn't more right than the other, so it was ONOGs decision. There are no two perspectives on it. Stephano is technically 2nd because he reached the finals and did give a default win to Kas. Illusion LOST to Stephano in a single elimination tournament so the best he could reach at that point is 3rd place. If you or any other person in the world don't want to understand it or simply ignore it, please do but don't tell me that Illusion actually deserved or got 2nd place, because its not true. ONOG decided to change the tournament format after Stephano did forfeit and only PUNISHED Stephano for that in the heat of the battle if you ask me. To the person who asked me if I wanted to happen stuff like this again and if I think Stephano should be punished. No I don't want this to happen again thats why I said you need contracts between players and tournament hosts and a punishment would be to just do not invite him again, but as I already said as well, I do think the tournament would hurt themselves as Stephano is a good player and pulls lots of viewers. As Arew said in another thread, ONOG is simply stealing money from Stephano at this point. Either disqualify him and make it clear OR give him his deserved 2nd place IMO. To Jibba: In ANY sports an athlete an forfeit at any point if he thinks he's incapable of completing the task or cannot finish the match. If a national soccer team cannot continue due to exhaustion they will forfeit the match. Obviously they will try but its a far bigger stage and usually its not 1v1 but teamgames. In boxing / fighting if you don't feel in good condition you forfeit or postpone. Stephano offered to postpone / reschedule and that wasn't possible so he did forfeit. How often have you seen boxing matches been rescheduled, just because one of the fighters wasn't fit at that point. It happened before. Technical k.O? Same story. The boxer wants to fight, but he cannot so he 'has' to or will be forced to forfeit. Stephano probably wanted to play, but he was tired so he couldn't really play.
No boxer I've ever seen scheduled himself for 2 fights in one day. Players are responsible for their own scheduals. Stephano double booked himself and didn't finnish his job. Why someone should get paid for something they didn't finnish is beyond me.
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United States22883 Posts
On January 31 2012 22:47 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:45 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:44 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:43 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:33 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:11 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 19:46 Detwiler wrote:
I mean seriously everyone is it really to much to ask that the players dont drop out of the freakin final of a tournament I mean wtf how is that an odd expectation or people feeling entitled to anything? He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. I doubt any team manager or coach would field a player when he is falling off the bench out of exhaustion. Said player would face the consequences of failing to manage his schedule properly. It was Stephanos duty to be properly prepared for a tournament he participates in, and he didn't. That is the offense. Not him quitting. Players fight to get back in the game, even when they're injured. That is their decision. Yes, and we respect them more as competitors for it. I'm arguing Stephano doesn't deserve that respect. Yes, and others argue that going from X gets more respect for doing something therefore Y doesn't deserve any is treating players as your personal puppet. When most other players do it, it becomes the standard. Since he's below that standard, he gets disrespect for it.
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On January 31 2012 22:45 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:44 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:43 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:33 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:11 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 19:46 Detwiler wrote:
I mean seriously everyone is it really to much to ask that the players dont drop out of the freakin final of a tournament I mean wtf how is that an odd expectation or people feeling entitled to anything? He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. I doubt any team manager or coach would field a player when he is falling off the bench out of exhaustion. Said player would face the consequences of failing to manage his schedule properly. It was Stephanos duty to be properly prepared for a tournament he participates in, and he didn't. That is the offense. Not him quitting. Players fight to get back in the game, even when they're injured. That is their decision. Yes, and we respect them more as competitors for it. I'm arguing Stephano doesn't deserve that respect.
because esport is easy and is not a real sport ?
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On January 31 2012 22:48 Taiki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 22:28 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 21:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 21:49 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:44 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:39 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:35 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:30 MonsterJukeBox wrote:
Lol, he basically gave up 1500 dollars because he wanted to sleep. Doesn't make sense to me. He would not have won the final if he was too tired. And imagine you just ear ed 100 dollars. Why would you try to play like shit for 5 dollars? If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. He was not supposed to win the prize of 4th place as he was qualified for the final. He did not know beforehand and 600 dollars when you just got 100k... I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. They could have played a showmatch and it would have been the right choice. You cannot just take away his second place and put him in 4th place. How is Illusion #2. He lost to Stephano in the semis, but I don't want to blame ONOG. They had to make a decision on the fly and fast, so.. they will learn from it and probably cast from replays next time. Illusion is obviously 2nd because he played in the finals. Stephano didn't, so I don't know where you're getting your idea that he's 2nd? See, there's two pespectives to this, one isn't more right than the other, so it was ONOGs decision. There are no two perspectives on it. Stephano is technically 2nd because he reached the finals and did give a default win to Kas. Illusion LOST to Stephano in a single elimination tournament so the best he could reach at that point is 3rd place. If you or any other person in the world don't want to understand it or simply ignore it, please do but don't tell me that Illusion actually deserved or got 2nd place, because its not true. ONOG decided to change the tournament format after Stephano did forfeit and only PUNISHED Stephano for that in the heat of the battle if you ask me. To the person who asked me if I wanted to happen stuff like this again and if I think Stephano should be punished. No I don't want this to happen again thats why I said you need contracts between players and tournament hosts and a punishment would be to just do not invite him again, but as I already said as well, I do think the tournament would hurt themselves as Stephano is a good player and pulls lots of viewers. As Arew said in another thread, ONOG is simply stealing money from Stephano at this point. Either disqualify him and make it clear OR give him his deserved 2nd place IMO. To Jibba: In ANY sports an athlete an forfeit at any point if he thinks he's incapable of completing the task or cannot finish the match. If a national soccer team cannot continue due to exhaustion they will forfeit the match. Obviously they will try but its a far bigger stage and usually its not 1v1 but teamgames. In boxing / fighting if you don't feel in good condition you forfeit or postpone. Stephano offered to postpone / reschedule and that wasn't possible so he did forfeit. How often have you seen boxing matches been rescheduled, just because one of the fighters wasn't fit at that point. It happened before. Technical k.O? Same story. The boxer wants to fight, but he cannot so he 'has' to or will be forced to forfeit. Stephano probably wanted to play, but he was tired so he couldn't really play. No boxer I've ever seen scheduled himself for 2 fights in one day. Players are responsible for their own scheduals. Stephano double booked himself and didn't finnish his job. Why someone should get paid for something they didn't finnish is beyond me.
Because people think that it's the players right to do what ever he wants.
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On January 31 2012 22:47 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:45 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:44 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:43 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:33 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:11 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 19:46 Detwiler wrote:
I mean seriously everyone is it really to much to ask that the players dont drop out of the freakin final of a tournament I mean wtf how is that an odd expectation or people feeling entitled to anything? He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. I doubt any team manager or coach would field a player when he is falling off the bench out of exhaustion. Said player would face the consequences of failing to manage his schedule properly. It was Stephanos duty to be properly prepared for a tournament he participates in, and he didn't. That is the offense. Not him quitting. Players fight to get back in the game, even when they're injured. That is their decision. Yes, and we respect them more as competitors for it. I'm arguing Stephano doesn't deserve that respect. Yes, and others argue that going from X gets more respect for doing something therefore Y doesn't deserve any is treating players as your personal puppet.
Are you still really pushing your ideas on this? Honestly? After all those pages.
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On January 31 2012 22:49 tekos44 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:45 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:44 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:43 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:33 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:11 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 19:46 Detwiler wrote:
I mean seriously everyone is it really to much to ask that the players dont drop out of the freakin final of a tournament I mean wtf how is that an odd expectation or people feeling entitled to anything? He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. I doubt any team manager or coach would field a player when he is falling off the bench out of exhaustion. Said player would face the consequences of failing to manage his schedule properly. It was Stephanos duty to be properly prepared for a tournament he participates in, and he didn't. That is the offense. Not him quitting. Players fight to get back in the game, even when they're injured. That is their decision. Yes, and we respect them more as competitors for it. I'm arguing Stephano doesn't deserve that respect. because esport is easy and is not a real sport ?
Because a game of SC2 can't kill you just because you are tired or sick. Boxing could.
And because 20 000 people were watching and waiting for it. And because Stephano knew it the first place that it could happen if he was in the final, even before the event started.
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On January 31 2012 22:49 ceaRshaf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:48 Taiki wrote:On January 31 2012 22:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 22:28 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 21:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 21:49 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:44 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:39 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:35 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:30 MonsterJukeBox wrote:
Lol, he basically gave up 1500 dollars because he wanted to sleep. Doesn't make sense to me. He would not have won the final if he was too tired. And imagine you just ear ed 100 dollars. Why would you try to play like shit for 5 dollars? If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. He was not supposed to win the prize of 4th place as he was qualified for the final. He did not know beforehand and 600 dollars when you just got 100k... I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. They could have played a showmatch and it would have been the right choice. You cannot just take away his second place and put him in 4th place. How is Illusion #2. He lost to Stephano in the semis, but I don't want to blame ONOG. They had to make a decision on the fly and fast, so.. they will learn from it and probably cast from replays next time. Illusion is obviously 2nd because he played in the finals. Stephano didn't, so I don't know where you're getting your idea that he's 2nd? See, there's two pespectives to this, one isn't more right than the other, so it was ONOGs decision. There are no two perspectives on it. Stephano is technically 2nd because he reached the finals and did give a default win to Kas. Illusion LOST to Stephano in a single elimination tournament so the best he could reach at that point is 3rd place. If you or any other person in the world don't want to understand it or simply ignore it, please do but don't tell me that Illusion actually deserved or got 2nd place, because its not true. ONOG decided to change the tournament format after Stephano did forfeit and only PUNISHED Stephano for that in the heat of the battle if you ask me. To the person who asked me if I wanted to happen stuff like this again and if I think Stephano should be punished. No I don't want this to happen again thats why I said you need contracts between players and tournament hosts and a punishment would be to just do not invite him again, but as I already said as well, I do think the tournament would hurt themselves as Stephano is a good player and pulls lots of viewers. As Arew said in another thread, ONOG is simply stealing money from Stephano at this point. Either disqualify him and make it clear OR give him his deserved 2nd place IMO. To Jibba: In ANY sports an athlete an forfeit at any point if he thinks he's incapable of completing the task or cannot finish the match. If a national soccer team cannot continue due to exhaustion they will forfeit the match. Obviously they will try but its a far bigger stage and usually its not 1v1 but teamgames. In boxing / fighting if you don't feel in good condition you forfeit or postpone. Stephano offered to postpone / reschedule and that wasn't possible so he did forfeit. How often have you seen boxing matches been rescheduled, just because one of the fighters wasn't fit at that point. It happened before. Technical k.O? Same story. The boxer wants to fight, but he cannot so he 'has' to or will be forced to forfeit. Stephano probably wanted to play, but he was tired so he couldn't really play. No boxer I've ever seen scheduled himself for 2 fights in one day. Players are responsible for their own scheduals. Stephano double booked himself and didn't finnish his job. Why someone should get paid for something they didn't finnish is beyond me. Because people think that it's the players right to do what ever he wants.
Who in their right mind would think that? Maybe people that have never worked for a day in their life perhaps.
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On January 31 2012 22:43 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:33 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:11 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 19:46 Detwiler wrote:
I mean seriously everyone is it really to much to ask that the players dont drop out of the freakin final of a tournament I mean wtf how is that an odd expectation or people feeling entitled to anything? He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. I doubt any team manager or coach would field a player when he is falling off the bench out of exhaustion. Said player would face the consequences of failing to manage his schedule properly. It was Stephanos duty to be properly prepared for a tournament he participates in, and he didn't. That is the offense. Not him quitting. Players fight to get back in the game, even when they're injured.
You have watched too much Rocky (or any bulshit sport movie)...
No player that has a working brain would want to get back to the game when he is injured cause the said action could worsen his state - which could result in the club dropping his contract.
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On January 31 2012 22:50 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:47 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:45 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:44 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:43 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 22:33 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 22:11 Jibba wrote:On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 19:46 Detwiler wrote:
I mean seriously everyone is it really to much to ask that the players dont drop out of the freakin final of a tournament I mean wtf how is that an odd expectation or people feeling entitled to anything? He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. I doubt any team manager or coach would field a player when he is falling off the bench out of exhaustion. Said player would face the consequences of failing to manage his schedule properly. It was Stephanos duty to be properly prepared for a tournament he participates in, and he didn't. That is the offense. Not him quitting. Players fight to get back in the game, even when they're injured. That is their decision. Yes, and we respect them more as competitors for it. I'm arguing Stephano doesn't deserve that respect. Yes, and others argue that going from X gets more respect for doing something therefore Y doesn't deserve any is treating players as your personal puppet. Are you still really pushing your ideas on this? Honestly? After all those pages.
If anything, it's the same dogmatism coming from you. You merely state the right to forfeit was "proven not existing". Please be so kind and refer to those alleged.
edit: Especially, since the core argument of "you cannot possibly force someone doing something he isn't able to" was never addressed. And no, it's not your right to judge whether Stephano was in a condition able to perform or not. It is his.
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On January 31 2012 22:52 nihlon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:49 ceaRshaf wrote:On January 31 2012 22:48 Taiki wrote:On January 31 2012 22:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 22:28 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 21:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 21:49 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:44 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:39 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:35 Poopi wrote:
[quote]
He would not have won the final if he was too tired. And imagine you just ear
ed 100 dollars. Why would you try to play like shit for 5 dollars? If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. He was not supposed to win the prize of 4th place as he was qualified for the final. He did not know beforehand and 600 dollars when you just got 100k... I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. They could have played a showmatch and it would have been the right choice. You cannot just take away his second place and put him in 4th place. How is Illusion #2. He lost to Stephano in the semis, but I don't want to blame ONOG. They had to make a decision on the fly and fast, so.. they will learn from it and probably cast from replays next time. Illusion is obviously 2nd because he played in the finals. Stephano didn't, so I don't know where you're getting your idea that he's 2nd? See, there's two pespectives to this, one isn't more right than the other, so it was ONOGs decision. There are no two perspectives on it. Stephano is technically 2nd because he reached the finals and did give a default win to Kas. Illusion LOST to Stephano in a single elimination tournament so the best he could reach at that point is 3rd place. If you or any other person in the world don't want to understand it or simply ignore it, please do but don't tell me that Illusion actually deserved or got 2nd place, because its not true. ONOG decided to change the tournament format after Stephano did forfeit and only PUNISHED Stephano for that in the heat of the battle if you ask me. To the person who asked me if I wanted to happen stuff like this again and if I think Stephano should be punished. No I don't want this to happen again thats why I said you need contracts between players and tournament hosts and a punishment would be to just do not invite him again, but as I already said as well, I do think the tournament would hurt themselves as Stephano is a good player and pulls lots of viewers. As Arew said in another thread, ONOG is simply stealing money from Stephano at this point. Either disqualify him and make it clear OR give him his deserved 2nd place IMO. To Jibba: In ANY sports an athlete an forfeit at any point if he thinks he's incapable of completing the task or cannot finish the match. If a national soccer team cannot continue due to exhaustion they will forfeit the match. Obviously they will try but its a far bigger stage and usually its not 1v1 but teamgames. In boxing / fighting if you don't feel in good condition you forfeit or postpone. Stephano offered to postpone / reschedule and that wasn't possible so he did forfeit. How often have you seen boxing matches been rescheduled, just because one of the fighters wasn't fit at that point. It happened before. Technical k.O? Same story. The boxer wants to fight, but he cannot so he 'has' to or will be forced to forfeit. Stephano probably wanted to play, but he was tired so he couldn't really play. No boxer I've ever seen scheduled himself for 2 fights in one day. Players are responsible for their own scheduals. Stephano double booked himself and didn't finnish his job. Why someone should get paid for something they didn't finnish is beyond me. Because people think that it's the players right to do what ever he wants. Who in their right mind would think that? Maybe people that have never worked for a day in their life perhaps.
strange... i worked alot and think that everybody can do what he wants (incl. facing the reaction on it).
am i really wrong?
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On January 31 2012 22:54 The Void wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 22:52 nihlon wrote:On January 31 2012 22:49 ceaRshaf wrote:On January 31 2012 22:48 Taiki wrote:On January 31 2012 22:39 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 22:28 Tobberoth wrote:On January 31 2012 21:56 mTw|NarutO wrote:On January 31 2012 21:49 MonsterJukeBox wrote:On January 31 2012 21:44 Poopi wrote:On January 31 2012 21:39 MonsterJukeBox wrote:
[quote]
If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. He was not supposed to win the prize of 4th place as he was qualified for the final. He did not know beforehand and 600 dollars when you just got 100k... I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. They could have played a showmatch and it would have been the right choice. You cannot just take away his second place and put him in 4th place. How is Illusion #2. He lost to Stephano in the semis, but I don't want to blame ONOG. They had to make a decision on the fly and fast, so.. they will learn from it and probably cast from replays next time. Illusion is obviously 2nd because he played in the finals. Stephano didn't, so I don't know where you're getting your idea that he's 2nd? See, there's two pespectives to this, one isn't more right than the other, so it was ONOGs decision. There are no two perspectives on it. Stephano is technically 2nd because he reached the finals and did give a default win to Kas. Illusion LOST to Stephano in a single elimination tournament so the best he could reach at that point is 3rd place. If you or any other person in the world don't want to understand it or simply ignore it, please do but don't tell me that Illusion actually deserved or got 2nd place, because its not true. ONOG decided to change the tournament format after Stephano did forfeit and only PUNISHED Stephano for that in the heat of the battle if you ask me. To the person who asked me if I wanted to happen stuff like this again and if I think Stephano should be punished. No I don't want this to happen again thats why I said you need contracts between players and tournament hosts and a punishment would be to just do not invite him again, but as I already said as well, I do think the tournament would hurt themselves as Stephano is a good player and pulls lots of viewers. As Arew said in another thread, ONOG is simply stealing money from Stephano at this point. Either disqualify him and make it clear OR give him his deserved 2nd place IMO. To Jibba: In ANY sports an athlete an forfeit at any point if he thinks he's incapable of completing the task or cannot finish the match. If a national soccer team cannot continue due to exhaustion they will forfeit the match. Obviously they will try but its a far bigger stage and usually its not 1v1 but teamgames. In boxing / fighting if you don't feel in good condition you forfeit or postpone. Stephano offered to postpone / reschedule and that wasn't possible so he did forfeit. How often have you seen boxing matches been rescheduled, just because one of the fighters wasn't fit at that point. It happened before. Technical k.O? Same story. The boxer wants to fight, but he cannot so he 'has' to or will be forced to forfeit. Stephano probably wanted to play, but he was tired so he couldn't really play. No boxer I've ever seen scheduled himself for 2 fights in one day. Players are responsible for their own scheduals. Stephano double booked himself and didn't finnish his job. Why someone should get paid for something they didn't finnish is beyond me. Because people think that it's the players right to do what ever he wants. Who in their right mind would think that? Maybe people that have never worked for a day in their life perhaps. strange... i worked alot and think that everybody can do what he wants (incl. facing the reaction on it). am i really wrong?
It's true you can come to work and do nothing all day, but it's also true that your manager has the right to take action. Am i really wrong?
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