EPTStephano forfeits ONOG Finals - Page 57
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Kontys
Finland659 Posts
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
 this is so rude to the organisers,sponsors and fans.Beeing to tired is also such a lame excuse, it can be true but one could claim to be tired always at annytime. how can it be valid lol. Maybe next time he reach a final the admin should just say "meh i am tired i go sleep, lets play tomorrow" and then just log off. Suprised they still gave him the monney for 4th place. This whole incident is just begging for jokes about french people and white flags. | ||
Poopi
France12905 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:30 MonsterJukeBox wrote: Lol, he basically gave up 1500 dollars because he wanted to sleep. Doesn't make sense to me. He would not have won the final if he was too tired. And imagine you just ear ed 100 dollars. Why would you try to play like shit for 5 dollars? | ||
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MonsterJukeBox
35 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:35 Poopi wrote: He would not have won the final if he was too tired. And imagine you just ear ed 100 dollars. Why would you try to play like shit for 5 dollars? If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:39 MonsterJukeBox wrote: If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. he couldnt have known onog pull off a random rule and places him 4th, i bet he was convinced he gets 2nd anyway cause - guess what - he won the semis and was in the final. but i dont think he cares too much about being placed 4th or our discussion about it. On January 31 2012 21:33 Kontys wrote: Making players play finals at 3 in the morning, then penalising players arbitrarily. Way to make yourselves look like a bunch of unprofessional idiots ONOG. not much to add. just that EU-organized online tournaments with NA invites are on friendlier times. | ||
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Poopi
France12905 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:39 MonsterJukeBox wrote: If he would've played the finals and lost he would get 750 dollars, instead he got 4th place and got 150. I would rather play tired and like shit for 600 dollars. Maybe that's just me. He was not supposed to win the prize of 4th place as he was qualified for the final. He did not know beforehand and 600 dollars when you just got 100k... | ||
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MonsterJukeBox
35 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:44 Poopi wrote: He was not supposed to win the prize of 4th place as he was qualified for the final. He did not know beforehand and 600 dollars when you just got 100k... I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:33 Kontys wrote: Making players play finals at 3 in the morning, then penalising players arbitrarily. Way to make yourselves look like a bunch of unprofessional idiots ONOG. Do you even know what ONOG is? Network of barcraft based in U S A. Do you know what timezones mean? Plus Stephano knew the time-schedule. Seems the only idiot here is you. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:49 MonsterJukeBox wrote: I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. They could have played a showmatch and it would have been the right choice. You cannot just take away his second place and put him in 4th place. How is Illusion #2. He lost to Stephano in the semis, but I don't want to blame ONOG. They had to make a decision on the fly and fast, so.. they will learn from it and probably cast from replays next time. | ||
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Fleshcut
Germany592 Posts
The ONOG team made the right decision and Stephano didn't use his brain properly (because he was nearly asleep maybe). Case closed. | ||
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Louis8k8
Canada285 Posts
ONOG's lenience (before their sudden hidden rule, but you can tell they're fed up) was totally necessary and unprofessional. There is no reason to reschedule a tournament match for a single person's poor planning. It's like they're babysitting children. I'm glad they didn't reschedule again to the next day the second time. | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:56 mTw|NarutO wrote: They could have played a showmatch and it would have been the right choice. You cannot just take away his second place and put him in 4th place. How is Illusion #2. He lost to Stephano in the semis, but I don't want to blame ONOG. They had to make a decision on the fly and fast, so.. they will learn from it and probably cast from replays next time. So for the next ONOG don't you want to know that the players now realize that something can actually happen to them if they are not responsible? Don't you think it's better for the overall quality of the event? Or any event. | ||
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Poopi
France12905 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:49 MonsterJukeBox wrote: I don't know about the 100k you are talking about, but 600 dollars is more than I make every month so I don't know why someone would not take that. Oh and you guys are right, of course he could not have foreseen him being placed 4th, but I only think it's fair. The fans deserve a finals, and they cannot just postpone the finals to another day due to several obvious reasons. Of course it's fair that he doesn't earn the 2nd place prize pool since he can't play it, and the final had to be played (therefore they can't make Illusion play and give him 3rd place prize lol) I just said that he did not know he would not earn the money | ||
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give.ViviD
Sweden235 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:42 KalWarkov wrote: he couldnt have known onog pull off a random rule and places him 4th, i bet he was convinced he gets 2nd anyway cause - guess what - he won the semis and was in the final. but i dont think he cares too much about being placed 4th or our discussion about it. not much to add. just that EU-organized online tournaments with NA invites are on friendlier times. You're both complete knobs, tournaments are an opportunity for players to make money and fame. It was in a different timezone, he knew the conditions, yet he forfeited the game because of his own selfobsessiveness, he needs to be put down from his (although well deserved) throne until he learns to appreciate things and be humble, not a bloody diva. Go ONOG, though they should've taken away all his possible earnings from the tourney. | ||
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Louis8k8
Canada285 Posts
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Catbus
80 Posts
On January 31 2012 06:09 OpticalShot wrote: I don't see anything "terribly wrong" with either of Stephano's or ONOG's decision here. Stephano was tired and didn't want to play - so he forfeited, okay. People are making parallels with the Naniwa case, but there's a definite difference in the course of action here. Naniwa grudged on and delivered something in extremely poor taste, Stephano chose not to deliver anything at all. As an organizer, ONOG did what it could to muster up a proper "finals" for the tournament, good for them. As for player attitude and self-management, however, I believe we are only beginning to uncover a serious issue. These guys aren't properly managed. They are over-booked when their tournament results are good, and under-booked (and not earning money) when their results are bad. In other words, this resembles a bounty-hunting society where the hunter just tosses out a ton of traps and gathers up what he managed to capture, with next-to-zero thoughts about the traps that did not capture anything. Someone suggested KeSPA-like governing body - it might work, but it has its share of problems too (just ask any BW enthusiast if they like KeSPA). I think the biggest difference is that Stephano bailed out of a final, Naniwa bailed out of a game that had no bearing on anything else. To rank Naniwas "probe rush" as poorer taste than saying "I got to sleep, bye" when he is in the finals is mind boggling.. Im not sure I mind in any of the cases, but I would definately rank it worse to drop out of games that matter. | ||
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KevinBacon
Portugal48 Posts
On January 31 2012 21:33 Kontys wrote: Making players play finals at 3 in the morning, then penalising players arbitrarily. Way to make yourselves look like a bunch of unprofessional idiots ONOG. Because stephano was totally unaware of the tournament schedule and was obligated at gunpoint to accept the two tournament invatations he had right? If only a human being could possibly schedule and manage his professional life in order to keep his commitments and respect other people work and enjoyment who actually make his life as a progamer possible. | ||
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
Interesting that this whole thing occured due to Stephano essentially overbooking himself, and hitting his physical limits. Some players have greater stamina than others, and presumably have greater tolerances for things like jet lag, disrupted sleeping routines. I know that when Stephano streamed from Korea, he would stop about 2am local time complaining that he was tired. I am guessing that he is not a late night person, maybe he is a morning person rather than a night owl? Has Stephano played many tournaments that require him to stay up past 2/3 am? I cannot recall any others, maybe this was a first. Perhaps after his experience of Scan and ONOG this week, Stephano will realise that he needs to check that his tournaments are scheduled to be at a more convenient time for him, as he does not seem to be the type of player who operates well past a certain time. More time planning for Stephano would have avoided this scenario. I understand Stephano is not a machine. It is unhealthy to play when extremely fatigued. We should NOT really encourage teenagers to play computer games when overly tired. It is bad for their health. Forcing teenagers to risk their health for my entertainment is not a path I wish to take. Having said that, I can sympathise with ONOG. The nature of the live audience meant that rescheduling was not possible for them. The ONOG Tourney was great, I enjoyed it immensely. Hopefully it was a success such that they can hold more in the future. Maybe ONOG and Stephano can come to some arrangement as reparation for any disrespect or inconvenience caused by this affair. Perhaps Stephano could do a free Showmatch or something for ONOG in the next Tournament (played BEFORE 2 am obviously), to help entertain their audience. Or give ONOG a replay of a cool game that they can cast and record prior to the event. Then ONOG could show this to help entertain their audience and retain viewers. I think both Stephano and ONOG are great for the growth of the game and hopefully they can come to a reconciliation. The nature of the SC2 scene means that players in online tournaments are playing in different timezones simultaneously and this scenario has led to this particular issue. The top players like Stephano do play many online tournaments. I have just checked and Stephano is playing in two tournaments later today. Unless I am mistaken he is in the EOSL semi vs AdelScott and later he is in the MSI Pro Cup Final vs Polt. I will be watching to see if he is successfully able to play in both tournaments to the end without forfeiting! | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On January 31 2012 19:51 mTw|NarutO wrote: He as the eSport athlete he is felt incapable of playing against one of the best Terrans outside of Korea in bo7 final and asked for a reschudle, as it was not possible he decided to take the default loss. Its his absolute right as athlete do to so. If you want to understand or not, his decision is perfectly fine. The way he 'announced' it to the tournament was not professional and everyone agrees, YET what he did was perfectly fine and would be acceptable in any sports. What ONOG should have done is play the 3rd place match and let Kas play a showmatch against the winner, I'm sure Kas would have done that. Taking the 2nd place of Stephano would mean he's disqualified. Putting him in 4th place is simply punishment and not backed up by anything, not the tournament system not a ruling. If Stephano would care about the money he would sue them and would probably get the money. He doesn't owe anyone besides his team/sponsors anything and if he felt incapable of playing its better to forfeit instead of showing very bad games. That shows you that he doesn't only care about the money, but rather about the community. He wants to deliver good games, but in his condition he had no way of delivering so he chose the alternative he had - withdraw from the tournament. Thats why I said it only works with contracts between the tournament hosts and the players for invite tournaments, just like with teams and their players. That way and with a rulebook, you can prevent situations like that OR solve them in a proper manner. Since when do "athletes" have an absolute right to do that? In what sport do teams take forfeits because they're too sleepy? You'd be ridiculed off your team for something like that. The comparison to a diva like TO isn't fair because TO played a game 6 weeks after breaking his leg, because he wanted to compete. He doesn't technically owe anyone but the tournament organizer and Millenium, but it shows that he's a bounty hunter. Honestly, what makes you think players have this inalienable right to play only when they feel at their best condition? That's simply not reality in any other job on the planet, and especially one where an event and broadcast is planned around it. Players live in their own little bubble at the moment, but this really doesn't need to happen and tournament organizers can prevent it from happening again, without very much loss. It was not perfectly fine nor acceptable in any sport. On January 31 2012 22:20 ceaRshaf wrote: Players think they have many rights but almost no responsibilities. This is precisely what's going on. | ||
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Morrisson
289 Posts
On January 31 2012 22:03 Catbus wrote: I think the biggest difference is that Stephano bailed out of a final, Naniwa bailed out of a game that had no bearing on anything else. To rank Naniwas "probe rush" as poorer taste than saying "I got to sleep, bye" when he is in the finals is mind boggling.. Im not sure I mind in any of the cases, but I would definately rank it worse to drop out of games that matter. Stephano bailed out of a final of a tournament that would have already been forgoten if its wasnt for the fact that HE was invited. Take Stephano out of this tournament, and 12k ppl would NOT have watched Catz battle Tyler.... or Illusion, that Steaphano rolled without trying. It would have been another small line in the liquipedia of the player that you see only when you go to his page. He mismanaged his schedule, acted poorly, losthis second place and prize money, but stop shitting on the kid, everybody makes mistakes and this is not a important one :/ | ||
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