|
|
|
Since they are the stars, players think they can do what they want so going to sleep like a spoiled child and leave the organizers and barcrafts hanging is in his right. Well it might be the case right now, but if we want ESPORTs to grow things need to change. Players need to have obligations not just privileges. A tournament is not obligated to let Stephano play but it is offering him the privilege to participate.
We see so many tournaments around the clock that we might underestimate how hard is to get sponsors, crew and viewers to your tournament so seeing it ruined by one spoiled act seems "imbalanced".
Players need to understand that once they agree to play (maybe even sign papers) they are obligated or else they get DQ or fined.
We love starcraft for it's balanced world, at this moment players are like mules, they can mine a tournament and call it quit when they want without costing them anything.
|
On January 31 2012 16:48 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 16:41 syllogism wrote:On January 31 2012 16:31 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 16:23 zefreak wrote:On January 31 2012 16:16 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 15:52 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On January 31 2012 14:45 Plexa wrote:
Damned if you do
Damned if you don't
Sigh. How so? No on put a gun to Stephano's head and forced him to participate in two tournaments in one day. It is Stephano's fault alone that he did not better manage his time so that he could have forseen playing as late as he did. Once you enter into a tournament you are obligated to your own sponsors and the sponsors of the tournament to play out your games. It is as simple as that. Stephano could have just drone rushed and let them cast the finals from replays. Would that have gone down better? Stephano didn't feel like his condition was up to playing to his full potential and decided to forfeit (or get the match delayed). Obviously he was okay with either outcome. He doesn't have to play to his full potential, he just needs to play his best as he is able at the time. Like with any sport, all people care about is if you try your best. DRG was throwing up before playing Leenock at MLG Providence and he played to the best of his ability even though nobody in their right mind would think he was playing to his full potential. I don't know where this idea that 'he wont be able to play to his full potential so he shouldn't try' came from but its certainly not acceptable in any other form of competition.. If stephano felt that he couldn't beat Kas in his current form and felt his time was better spent sleeping (and probably resting for whatever he had planned for the next day) then who are you to demand he plays out the match? Stephano made his choice, and he can't complain about the outcome as a result (and afaik, he isn't.) This is an asinine argument. No one is "demanding" or trying to force stephano to play, but his decision not to play will make people think less of him and quite justifiably. then why this thread exists? If player can choose to forfeit why wouldnt he, This whole thread is just trying to prove that Stephano has either bad sportmanship or that he was too tired to play. In both cases its meaningless to discuss it. He had his reasons to do this and he gave up the prize, thats already a "cost" of his decision. We cannot strip players from being able to forfeit. Its unthinkable in any other sport.
It exists because it's newsworthy. Do you think a person forfeiting GSL finals would be worth a thread? A player can choose to do many things, but that doesn't mean they should. Also, when I say no one is "forcing" him to play, I do not mean there shouldn't be consequences, just that obviously he can't be forced to do anything.
|
On January 31 2012 16:55 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 16:48 bgx wrote:On January 31 2012 16:41 syllogism wrote:On January 31 2012 16:31 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 16:23 zefreak wrote:On January 31 2012 16:16 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 15:52 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On January 31 2012 14:45 Plexa wrote:
Damned if you do
Damned if you don't
Sigh. How so? No on put a gun to Stephano's head and forced him to participate in two tournaments in one day. It is Stephano's fault alone that he did not better manage his time so that he could have forseen playing as late as he did. Once you enter into a tournament you are obligated to your own sponsors and the sponsors of the tournament to play out your games. It is as simple as that. Stephano could have just drone rushed and let them cast the finals from replays. Would that have gone down better? Stephano didn't feel like his condition was up to playing to his full potential and decided to forfeit (or get the match delayed). Obviously he was okay with either outcome. He doesn't have to play to his full potential, he just needs to play his best as he is able at the time. Like with any sport, all people care about is if you try your best. DRG was throwing up before playing Leenock at MLG Providence and he played to the best of his ability even though nobody in their right mind would think he was playing to his full potential. I don't know where this idea that 'he wont be able to play to his full potential so he shouldn't try' came from but its certainly not acceptable in any other form of competition.. If stephano felt that he couldn't beat Kas in his current form and felt his time was better spent sleeping (and probably resting for whatever he had planned for the next day) then who are you to demand he plays out the match? Stephano made his choice, and he can't complain about the outcome as a result (and afaik, he isn't.) This is an asinine argument. No one is "demanding" or trying to force stephano to play, but his decision not to play will make people think less of him and quite justifiably. then why this thread exists? If player can choose to forfeit why wouldnt he, This whole thread is just trying to prove that Stephano has either bad sportmanship or that he was too tired to play. In both cases its meaningless to discuss it. He had his reasons to do this and he gave up the prize, thats already a "cost" of his decision. We cannot strip players from being able to forfeit. Its unthinkable in any other sport. It exists because it's newsworthy. Do you think a person forfeiting GSL finals would be worth a thread? A player can choose to do many things, but that doesn't mean they should. Also, when I say no one is "forcing" him to play, I do not mean there shouldn't be consequences, just that obviously he can't be forced to do anything.
Then why is there no thread about Polt forfeiting Zotac Finals ? I'm going to quote myself here :
The right to forfeit should be absolute and shouldn't need a reason : If you feel it'll be worse for you and the viewers (cmon 4 horrible games in a row ?) then do not play.
|
reading this thread and all the threads like it is like listening to a grouchy old man complain about all the things he doesnt like in the newspaper. Some ppl rly need to chill out.
|
On January 31 2012 16:31 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 16:23 zefreak wrote:On January 31 2012 16:16 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 15:52 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On January 31 2012 14:45 Plexa wrote:
Damned if you do
Damned if you don't
Sigh. How so? No on put a gun to Stephano's head and forced him to participate in two tournaments in one day. It is Stephano's fault alone that he did not better manage his time so that he could have forseen playing as late as he did. Once you enter into a tournament you are obligated to your own sponsors and the sponsors of the tournament to play out your games. It is as simple as that. Stephano could have just drone rushed and let them cast the finals from replays. Would that have gone down better? Stephano didn't feel like his condition was up to playing to his full potential and decided to forfeit (or get the match delayed). Obviously he was okay with either outcome. He doesn't have to play to his full potential, he just needs to play his best as he is able at the time. Like with any sport, all people care about is if you try your best. DRG was throwing up before playing Leenock at MLG Providence and he played to the best of his ability even though nobody in their right mind would think he was playing to his full potential. I don't know where this idea that 'he wont be able to play to his full potential so he shouldn't try' came from but its certainly not acceptable in any other form of competition.. If stephano felt that he couldn't beat Kas in his current form and felt his time was better spent sleeping (and probably resting for whatever he had planned for the next day) then who are you to demand he plays out the match? Stephano made his choice, and he can't complain about the outcome as a result (and afaik, he isn't.)
Yeaa I dont get why if the player doesnt have a problem hes a bad guy, hes accepted whatever consequences there are for him forfeiting. He may not be happy about it, but I dont see any complaining either. Is he at fault ? Probably, but its not like if Stephano forfeited his position that the tournament died. Other people were playing to, you can watch them. He didnt feel like he could play so the organizers found a work around. I dont think theres really a super guilty party here that destroyed the tournament.
And for all those saying "but people wanted to see Stephano wtf, the tournament promised it." Really guys ?
I have to agree though, if Stephano is accepting invites to tournaments he should make sure he has time for them, its not really fair to an organizer to have a player engaged in multiple tournaments simultaneously or the same day or whatever.
I think it merits a thread, people will find ways to complain anyway, I dont really browse the forums much and stick to one thread so I wouldnt know about this if it wasnt headlined.
|
I don't see why this merits a thread simply because no productive discussion can come of it. Look through the comments, it's 51 pages of people either insulting stephano, or people trying to white knight for him. Okay, it was a late night, he told them it needed to be postponed or forfeit, so they made a judgement call.
Both sides are valid and nobody was in the wrong. Stephano did what he felt he had to given the time constraints and the authorities made what they felt was right given their event scheduling and procedures. It's unfortunate that the games were never played out, but I don't think anything will come of it.
|
People.
When in doubt, just ask this question,
"What Would Boxer Do?"
|
On January 31 2012 17:04 theBALLS wrote:
People.
When in doubt, just ask this question,
"What Would Boxer Do?"
This has to be the motto of ESPORTS!
|
On January 31 2012 17:00 loginn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 16:55 syllogism wrote:On January 31 2012 16:48 bgx wrote:On January 31 2012 16:41 syllogism wrote:On January 31 2012 16:31 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 16:23 zefreak wrote:On January 31 2012 16:16 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 15:52 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On January 31 2012 14:45 Plexa wrote:
Damned if you do
Damned if you don't
Sigh. How so? No on put a gun to Stephano's head and forced him to participate in two tournaments in one day. It is Stephano's fault alone that he did not better manage his time so that he could have forseen playing as late as he did. Once you enter into a tournament you are obligated to your own sponsors and the sponsors of the tournament to play out your games. It is as simple as that. Stephano could have just drone rushed and let them cast the finals from replays. Would that have gone down better? Stephano didn't feel like his condition was up to playing to his full potential and decided to forfeit (or get the match delayed). Obviously he was okay with either outcome. He doesn't have to play to his full potential, he just needs to play his best as he is able at the time. Like with any sport, all people care about is if you try your best. DRG was throwing up before playing Leenock at MLG Providence and he played to the best of his ability even though nobody in their right mind would think he was playing to his full potential. I don't know where this idea that 'he wont be able to play to his full potential so he shouldn't try' came from but its certainly not acceptable in any other form of competition.. If stephano felt that he couldn't beat Kas in his current form and felt his time was better spent sleeping (and probably resting for whatever he had planned for the next day) then who are you to demand he plays out the match? Stephano made his choice, and he can't complain about the outcome as a result (and afaik, he isn't.) This is an asinine argument. No one is "demanding" or trying to force stephano to play, but his decision not to play will make people think less of him and quite justifiably. then why this thread exists? If player can choose to forfeit why wouldnt he, This whole thread is just trying to prove that Stephano has either bad sportmanship or that he was too tired to play. In both cases its meaningless to discuss it. He had his reasons to do this and he gave up the prize, thats already a "cost" of his decision. We cannot strip players from being able to forfeit. Its unthinkable in any other sport. It exists because it's newsworthy. Do you think a person forfeiting GSL finals would be worth a thread? A player can choose to do many things, but that doesn't mean they should. Also, when I say no one is "forcing" him to play, I do not mean there shouldn't be consequences, just that obviously he can't be forced to do anything. Then why is there no thread about Polt forfeiting Zotac Finals ? I'm going to quote myself here : The right to forfeit should be absolute and shouldn't need a reason : If you feel it'll be worse for you and the viewers (cmon 4 horrible games in a row ?) then do not play.
The right is, in a sense, absolute. However, a person who does not plan ahead and can not finish his commitments should not be invited to tournaments and may face other consequences as is the case here. Moreover, had Stephano handled this better by apologizing to his fans, the organizers and other viewers and explaining that in the future he will plan ahead this would be a much smaller issue. Instead, he has basically said nothing and doesn't even appear to understand the issue. The fact millenium has, as far as I know, not said anything is quite disappointing as well.
|
On January 31 2012 14:42 Shingebiss wrote:
Typical Frenchman, waving the white flag before the battle has even begun. Shame upon you Ilyes.
ban incoming in 3...2...1...
|
On January 31 2012 17:04 theBALLS wrote:
People.
When in doubt, just ask this question,
"What Would Boxer Do?"
LOL!!
Gotta qft!
|
On January 31 2012 17:08 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 17:00 loginn wrote:On January 31 2012 16:55 syllogism wrote:On January 31 2012 16:48 bgx wrote:On January 31 2012 16:41 syllogism wrote:On January 31 2012 16:31 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 16:23 zefreak wrote:On January 31 2012 16:16 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 15:52 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On January 31 2012 14:45 Plexa wrote:
Damned if you do
Damned if you don't
Sigh. How so? No on put a gun to Stephano's head and forced him to participate in two tournaments in one day. It is Stephano's fault alone that he did not better manage his time so that he could have forseen playing as late as he did. Once you enter into a tournament you are obligated to your own sponsors and the sponsors of the tournament to play out your games. It is as simple as that. Stephano could have just drone rushed and let them cast the finals from replays. Would that have gone down better? Stephano didn't feel like his condition was up to playing to his full potential and decided to forfeit (or get the match delayed). Obviously he was okay with either outcome. He doesn't have to play to his full potential, he just needs to play his best as he is able at the time. Like with any sport, all people care about is if you try your best. DRG was throwing up before playing Leenock at MLG Providence and he played to the best of his ability even though nobody in their right mind would think he was playing to his full potential. I don't know where this idea that 'he wont be able to play to his full potential so he shouldn't try' came from but its certainly not acceptable in any other form of competition.. If stephano felt that he couldn't beat Kas in his current form and felt his time was better spent sleeping (and probably resting for whatever he had planned for the next day) then who are you to demand he plays out the match? Stephano made his choice, and he can't complain about the outcome as a result (and afaik, he isn't.) This is an asinine argument. No one is "demanding" or trying to force stephano to play, but his decision not to play will make people think less of him and quite justifiably. then why this thread exists? If player can choose to forfeit why wouldnt he, This whole thread is just trying to prove that Stephano has either bad sportmanship or that he was too tired to play. In both cases its meaningless to discuss it. He had his reasons to do this and he gave up the prize, thats already a "cost" of his decision. We cannot strip players from being able to forfeit. Its unthinkable in any other sport. It exists because it's newsworthy. Do you think a person forfeiting GSL finals would be worth a thread? A player can choose to do many things, but that doesn't mean they should. Also, when I say no one is "forcing" him to play, I do not mean there shouldn't be consequences, just that obviously he can't be forced to do anything. Then why is there no thread about Polt forfeiting Zotac Finals ? I'm going to quote myself here : The right to forfeit should be absolute and shouldn't need a reason : If you feel it'll be worse for you and the viewers (cmon 4 horrible games in a row ?) then do not play. The right is, in a sense, absolute. However, a person who does not plan ahead and can not finish his commitments should not be invited to tournaments and may face other consequences as is the case here. Moreover, had Stephano handled this better by apologizing to his fans, the organizers and other viewers and explaining that in the future he will plan ahead this would be a much smaller issue. Instead, he has basically said nothing and doesn't even appear to understand the issue. The fact millenium has, as far as I know, not said anything is quite disappointing as well.
He understands the issue, he said what he doesn't understand is all the hate. Forfeiting is no big deal, especially since he accepted what ONOG did. If you agree with me and say the right to forfeit is absolute, then why would he apologize for anything ? He should allowed to forfeit and give no reason for it (which he didn't and was honest about).
EDIT : Also the tournament organizers could have started with kas vs Catz the moment they allowed Stephano to have a break instead of delaying the tournament for 40 mins.
|
On January 31 2012 17:04 theBALLS wrote:
People.
When in doubt, just ask this question,
"What Would Boxer Do?"
Ahem This little snippet is taken from Boxer's "Crazy as Me"
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 2000 during the first preliminaries of the Freechal Ongamenet
Starleague, I faced Lee Jaehang SiR@SoNi~, who was in the same
team as me. For four days I did not sleep and only practiced for this
event. It was an event worth striving for, and I was full of confidence
with the thought that it was about time for me to accomplish
something. It was a bit problematic that I would meet a fellow
55
teammate in the first round of the preliminaries, but it was a match
that would have to be played one way or another if I was to fight my
way to the top. For the first match on the map Space Odyssey, I got
Protoss after selecting random and won the game. Before I switched
my main race to Terran, I used to play with Protoss, so at times I
would alternate between Protoss and Terran. For the second match, I
selected Terran and lost; now the third game remained.
My mind became cloudy after the first two games. My whole body
was telling me that it had reached the limits of its physical
strength. Because I had not slept the night before, my mind was
gradually becoming faint. I decided to select random for the third
game. The countdown for starting the game began. 5, 4, 3∙∙∙∙∙. Lee
Jaehang first picked Zerg. Now it was my turn to pick the race, but
somehow I ended up picking Zerg, as he did. The game began, and
on my screen appeared a hatchery and drones. In a moment of
bewilderment I asked Lee Jaehang if we could restart the game. I said
something that didn’t make sense at all. When a game has started,
there is no reason to stop the game unless GG is typed. Of course, it
was also possible for me to get Zerg if I selected random; everything
was my responsibility and it was something that I decided, so what
was I to achieve by griping to my opponent? Until that moment, I had
never played against a Zerg with a Zerg, whether it was randomly
selected or not. At the time, my skills with Zerg were only that of an
average amateur. Hastily, I was unable to do much of anything and
eventually typed GG. What if I had gotten Zerg even if I selected
random? If I had not become so confused after selecting Zerg and
56
boldly accepted the situation, would I have given up so easily and
typed GG? Through this painful mistake I realized that maintaining
one’s condition was just as important as practice.
The emperor has spoken.
|
He still played his game to the best of his ability even though he chose zerg, a race that he was horrible at. None of this "I won't be able to show great games I had better just quit" BS
|
On January 31 2012 17:21 zefreak wrote:
He still played his game to the best of his ability even though he chose zerg, a race that he was horrible at. None of this "I won't be able to show great games I had better just quit" BS
Just because you idolize him doesn't mean you have to twist his words to what you want him to say. Throwing in the towel is throwing in the towel. Both parties acted right. Stephano believed he could've beaten both tournaments, else he would not have accepted the invite. Things just didn't pan out.
|
I dont know about you guys but I would have played no matter how tired I was, I get that he was beat and really wanted to go to bed but the fact is that by not playing he lost out on a bunch of prize money that he had already earned. I couldnt find the distrabution for the prizes anywhere but I think it is pretty safe to assume that in a 3000 dollar tournament there is going to be a few hundred dollar difference between 2nd and 4th and to me that is worth staying up for an hour and a half past your bed time.
|
Noone would ever post in a thread in a forum about me being an idiot if i did not meet in school for 1 day, in fact if people did it would be even more stupid since they did not know why i wasen't in school.
User was warned for bolding the entire post
|
On January 31 2012 16:53 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 16:31 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 16:23 zefreak wrote:On January 31 2012 16:16 Plexa wrote:On January 31 2012 15:52 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On January 31 2012 14:45 Plexa wrote:
Damned if you do
Damned if you don't
Sigh. How so? No on put a gun to Stephano's head and forced him to participate in two tournaments in one day. It is Stephano's fault alone that he did not better manage his time so that he could have forseen playing as late as he did. Once you enter into a tournament you are obligated to your own sponsors and the sponsors of the tournament to play out your games. It is as simple as that. Stephano could have just drone rushed and let them cast the finals from replays. Would that have gone down better? Stephano didn't feel like his condition was up to playing to his full potential and decided to forfeit (or get the match delayed). Obviously he was okay with either outcome. He doesn't have to play to his full potential, he just needs to play his best as he is able at the time. Like with any sport, all people care about is if you try your best. DRG was throwing up before playing Leenock at MLG Providence and he played to the best of his ability even though nobody in their right mind would think he was playing to his full potential. I don't know where this idea that 'he wont be able to play to his full potential so he shouldn't try' came from but its certainly not acceptable in any other form of competition.. If stephano felt that he couldn't beat Kas in his current form and felt his time was better spent sleeping (and probably resting for whatever he had planned for the next day) then who are you to demand he plays out the match? Stephano made his choice, and he can't complain about the outcome as a result (and afaik, he isn't.) Are you ignoring the fact that he wouldn't even be in this situation in the first place if practiced common sense on purpose?
You're right. Stephano shouldn't have bitten off more than he could chew. He forfeited his 2nd (and chance for 1st) place. I think that's propper "punishment". What more needs to be discussed?
|
On January 31 2012 17:26 Zairair wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 17:21 zefreak wrote:
He still played his game to the best of his ability even though he chose zerg, a race that he was horrible at. None of this "I won't be able to show great games I had better just quit" BS Just because you idolize him doesn't mean you have to twist his words to what you want him to say. Throwing in the towel is throwing in the towel. Both parties acted right. Stephano believed he could've beaten both tournaments, else he would not have accepted the invite. Things just didn't pan out.
I have a feeling that you are honestly confused as to the point of that Boxer quote. I am assuming that you are not a native english speaker due to the quality of your posts.
Boxer was tired like Stephano, he pushed himself to the edge by staying up for a very long time playing a lot of starcraft, again like Stephano. Unlike Stephano, Boxer played all 3 games, and still tried even though he played a zvz as his last match. The part you bolded does not imply that he gg'd prematurely or threw the game, all it says is that eventually there was nothing he could do as he is an amateur in the MU and lost the game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
