|
On December 16 2011 16:19 kurosawa wrote:
It's actually quite funny...Xigua comes from a well off family in China. In fact, invictus is basically bankrolled by his family. He has said to me he actually doesn't practice much. Imagine if he did - would be frightening.
He's related to Wang Sicong, the guy who paid $6 million to buy out CCM and is one of the richest men involved in eSports? Heh, no wonder he's a bit arrogant.
|
Wang Sicong's father Wang Jianlin, one of the richest man in China for commercial property . invested football club "DaLian Wan Da".
XiaoT leave away SC2, coz Wang Sicong wanna play DOTA with XiaoT, and let him do manager in IG club.
|
I like it! The more, the merrier!
gogo chinese team!
|
ofc is sen not in the chinese team, did you guys not remember the wcg skandal few years ago where even known sc1 gamers from china (PJ) diss and rly HARD attack the taiwanese guy for using taiwanese flag ?
its like having a proud north korean player playing in a south korean team
|
Sen has stated his country as Taiwan using google map on his stream before.
It clearly showed his political tendency, so it's not surprised that Sen refused to join "China" Union.
He might be good friends with Chinese progamers, but Taiwan/China problem is much more serious.
On December 16 2011 13:54 EricFartman wrote:
a part of insane taiwanese will drive Sen give up join the China Union team. i think no one want to risk into political fight
Unfortunately, 90% of youth in Taiwan are what you called "INSANE TAIWANESE". It's nothing wrong with making a distinction between Taiwan and China clearly. We have our own government and territory.
We want to be friendly with Chinese, but it's hard to do that since Chinese government treat us like shit around the world.
|
Is there something I'm missing? I don't know why you guys are assuming that Sen was even approached for this effort, considering there's only five spots and plenty of SC 2 pros in China to fill them.
|
it will be sick when everyone from everywhere focus on sc2
we still have bw pros from korea, wc3 pros from china and some koreans like moon to come, hope they focus all at the same time 
|
On December 19 2011 17:19 touhonoob wrote:Sen has stated his country as Taiwan using google map on his stream before. It clearly showed his political tendency, so it's not surprised that Sen refused to join "China" Union. He might be good friends with Chinese progamers, but Taiwan/China problem is much more serious. Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 13:54 EricFartman wrote:
a part of insane taiwanese will drive Sen give up join the China Union team. i think no one want to risk into political fight Unfortunately, 90% of youth in Taiwan are what you called "INSANE TAIWANESE". It's nothing wrong with making a distinction between Taiwan and China clearly. We have our own government and territory. We want to be friendly with Chinese, but it's hard to do that since Chinese government treat us like shit around the world.
Sen's represented China before.
China vs Prime clan war in beta.
Politics has no place in any of this. Sen used to be the only Taiwanese on a team full of mainland Chinese players back in BW. They treated him like a friend and just another Chinese player. They didn't care about what the ROC government which rules the island that Sen happened to have been born on thought. Likewise, Taiwanese Starcraft fans didn't launch terrorist attacks just because Sen was on a team with a bunch of Chinese players or because Sen represented "China" in a clan war.
|
The official name of the government in Taiwan is "Republic of China" and the current ruling party is the KMT aka the "Chinese Nationalist Party". Foreigners really should take some history lessons before they discuss politics about the cross strait relations.
Taiwan is a part of China. Mainlanders and Taiwanese share the same language, culture, and history, the only difference is whether the ruling party of China should be the Comunist Party (from Mainland) or the Nationalist Party (from Taiwan) which of course the communist party has the advantage.
Sen is considered Chinese to me and many Chinese SC fans. I only consider the indeginous aborigines of Taiwan to be real "Taiwanese"
|
On December 19 2011 18:39 ppshchik wrote:
The official name of the government in Taiwan is "Republic of China" and the current ruling party is the KMT aka the "Chinese Nationalist Party". Foreigners really should take some history lessons before they discuss politics about the cross strait relations.
Taiwan is a part of China. Mainlanders and Taiwanese share the same language, culture, and history, the only difference is whether the ruling party of China should be the Comunist Party (from Mainland) or the Nationalist Party (from Taiwan) which of course the communist party has the advantage.
Sen is considered Chinese to me and many Chinese SC fans. I only consider the indeginous aborigines of Taiwan to be real "Taiwanese"
This is politically correct, yes, but more or less implied by previous posts. Despite being the same country being contested by two rival governments, they are practically two sovereignties and it's easier usually to just say China and Taiwan. I'm a mostly patriotic Chinese but such serious politics unnecessarily complicate things on a Starcraft forum.
|
On December 19 2011 18:39 ppshchik wrote:
The official name of the government in Taiwan is "Republic of China" and the current ruling party is the KMT aka the "Chinese Nationalist Party". Foreigners really should take some history lessons before they discuss politics about the cross strait relations.
Taiwan is a part of China. Mainlanders and Taiwanese share the same language, culture, and history, the only difference is whether the ruling party of China should be the Comunist Party (from Mainland) or the Nationalist Party (from Taiwan) which of course the communist party has the advantage.
Sen is considered Chinese to me and many Chinese SC fans. I only consider the indeginous aborigines of Taiwan to be real "Taiwanese"
Yeah for some odd reason, westerners seem to think that China and Taiwan are analogous to North Korea and South Korea.
It's probably more analogous to Canada and the US. You can travel freely between China and Taiwan just like how you can travel freely between Canada and the US. Mainland China and Taiwan share the exact same cultural heritage and a common history. Every Taiwanese student has studied Chinese literature and Chinese history for most of their life, since elementary school. 98% of Taiwanese people, essentially everyone except for aboriginals, have ancestry somewhere in Mainland China. Taiwanese and Chinese films, tv series, and music are all promoted on both sides of the strait. Some Taiwanese, mostly the younger ones, might get irked when you call him Chinese, just like how a Canadian might get offended if you call him American, but that's only because they don't want to associate themselves with the communist government. There are many many totally different terms in Chinese that are all translated into English as "Chinese person" (citizen of the Middle Kingdom, descendant of the Yellow Emperor, descendant of the Han Dynasty, etc etc). When a Taiwanese person refers to himself as being "not Chinese", he's more likely than not referring to the fact that he's not a citizen of the People's Republic of China. There are certain Chinese terms that are translated as "Chinese" that almost no Taiwanese person can deny as what they are. The very same Republic of China government that brainwashed three generations of Taiwanese to hate the communists also shoved Chinese culture down their throats, choking out any sort of regional Taiwanese identity.
|
On December 19 2011 17:19 touhonoob wrote:Sen has stated his country as Taiwan using google map on his stream before. It clearly showed his political tendency, so it's not surprised that Sen refused to join "China" Union. He might be good friends with Chinese progamers, but Taiwan/China problem is much more serious. Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 13:54 EricFartman wrote:
a part of insane taiwanese will drive Sen give up join the China Union team. i think no one want to risk into political fight Unfortunately, 90% of youth in Taiwan are what you called "INSANE TAIWANESE". It's nothing wrong with making a distinction between Taiwan and China clearly. We have our own government and territory. We want to be friendly with Chinese, but it's hard to do that since Chinese government treat us like shit around the world.
They do? I didn't know that. In any case, I'd be really thankful if I were Taiwanese that a country that could conquer mine at a whim has not to this day and seems to have no intent of doing so.
That said, there's a thousand possible reasons why Sen didn't choose play with them. Maybe he's too busy for the GSTL, which is a huge dedication, or doesn't like a couple players on the team. I know he played with a Chinese team in BW, so it isn't like he's some jingoist who hates China or something to the point he's not willing to play with Chinese players. Assuming it's because he hates China and Chinese folks is taking it a bit too far.
|
On December 19 2011 18:49 chenchen wrote:
Yeah for some odd reason, westerners seem to think that China and Taiwan are analogous to North Korea and South Korea.
It's probably more analogous to Canada and the US. You can travel freely between China and Taiwan just like how you can travel freely between Canada and the US. Mainland China and Taiwan share the exact same cultural heritage and a common history. Every Taiwanese student has studied Chinese literature and Chinese history for most of their life, since elementary school. 98% of Taiwanese people, essentially everyone except for aboriginals, have ancestry somewhere in Mainland China. Taiwanese and Chinese films, tv series, and music are all promoted on both sides of the strait. Some Taiwanese, mostly the younger ones, might get irked when you call him Chinese, just like how a Canadian might get offended if you call him American, but that's only because they don't want to associate themselves with the communist government. There are many many totally different terms in Chinese that are all translated into English as "Chinese person" (citizen of the Middle Kingdom, descendant of the Yellow Emperor, descendant of the Han Dynasty, etc etc). When a Taiwanese person refers to himself as being "not Chinese", he's more likely than not referring to the fact that he's not a citizen of the People's Republic of China. There are certain Chinese terms that are translated as "Chinese" that almost no Taiwanese person can deny as what they are. The very same Republic of China government that brainwashed three generations of Taiwanese to hate the communists also shoved Chinese culture down their throats, choking out any sort of regional Taiwanese identity.
as a Taiwanese, i found most of these correct
culturally and ethnically Chinese and Taiwanese are almost identical
we study Chinese history, Chinese literature and Chinese philosophy
we don't deny being culturally Chinese, we are nothing if we do so
we are proud of it
there are many ways to say that in Chinese, but English translate almost all of those vocabulary or phrase into the same one......"Chinese"
like
"華人"-descendant of Chinese (ethnically)
"漢人"-descendant of Han Dynasty as the previous post say
"中文"-Chinese (language)
"中國人"-Chinese (nationality)
so it is both right and wrong to call a Taiwanese "Chinese"
in so many ways we are Chinese, but in others we are not
and this fact will also be true in a lot of Asian countries
and to make it clear, Taiwanese have been calling ourselves Chinese less in recent years
most of the time, we preferred to be called Taiwanese
the majority of Taiwanese don't actually hate Chinese people
we just don't like their government bully us in international events
|
On December 19 2011 19:28 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
They do? I didn't know that. In any case, I'd be really thankful if I were Taiwanese that a country that could conquer mine at a whim has not to this day and seems to have no intent of doing so.
they can't do that
not without causing serious international consequences
and it won't do if they just blow us into pieces
they wont want to conquer a ruin
|
Hope they get in on this, Chinese esports is something any game wants a bite off
|
On December 19 2011 19:39 fish83814 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 19:28 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
They do? I didn't know that. In any case, I'd be really thankful if I were Taiwanese that a country that could conquer mine at a whim has not to this day and seems to have no intent of doing so. they can't do that not without causing serious international consequences and it won't do if they just blow us into pieces they wont want to conquer a ruin
As far as I know, the Taiwan/China relationship tends to get blown up out of proportion compared to other relationships China has with places like Tibet or some of the far western provinces. I could be wrong though.
|
Norway25712 Posts
That would be awesome! Wouuld love to see the Chinese starcrafters get some more exposure, I've barely seen any games from any Chinese progamer, but the ones I have seen were pretty awesome.
|
On December 19 2011 19:35 fish83814 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 18:49 chenchen wrote:
Yeah for some odd reason, westerners seem to think that China and Taiwan are analogous to North Korea and South Korea.
It's probably more analogous to Canada and the US. You can travel freely between China and Taiwan just like how you can travel freely between Canada and the US. Mainland China and Taiwan share the exact same cultural heritage and a common history. Every Taiwanese student has studied Chinese literature and Chinese history for most of their life, since elementary school. 98% of Taiwanese people, essentially everyone except for aboriginals, have ancestry somewhere in Mainland China. Taiwanese and Chinese films, tv series, and music are all promoted on both sides of the strait. Some Taiwanese, mostly the younger ones, might get irked when you call him Chinese, just like how a Canadian might get offended if you call him American, but that's only because they don't want to associate themselves with the communist government. There are many many totally different terms in Chinese that are all translated into English as "Chinese person" (citizen of the Middle Kingdom, descendant of the Yellow Emperor, descendant of the Han Dynasty, etc etc). When a Taiwanese person refers to himself as being "not Chinese", he's more likely than not referring to the fact that he's not a citizen of the People's Republic of China. There are certain Chinese terms that are translated as "Chinese" that almost no Taiwanese person can deny as what they are. The very same Republic of China government that brainwashed three generations of Taiwanese to hate the communists also shoved Chinese culture down their throats, choking out any sort of regional Taiwanese identity. as a Taiwanese, i found most of these correct culturally and ethnically Chinese and Taiwanese are almost identical we study Chinese history, Chinese literature and Chinese philosophy we don't deny being culturally Chinese, we are nothing if we do so we are proud of it there are many ways to say that in Chinese, but English translate almost all of those vocabulary or phrase into the same one......"Chinese" like "華人"-descendant of Chinese (ethnically) "漢人"-descendant of Han Dynasty as the previous post say "中文"-Chinese (language) "中國人"-Chinese (nationality) so it is both right and wrong to call a Taiwanese "Chinese" in so many ways we are Chinese, but in others we are not and this fact will also be true in a lot of Asian countries and to make it clear, Taiwanese have been calling ourselves Chinese less in recent years most of the time, we preferred to be called Taiwanese the majority of Taiwanese don't actually hate Chinese people we just don't like their government bully us in international events
I'm pretty sure the language is called 'Mandrin', not chinese.
|
On December 21 2011 02:54 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 19:35 fish83814 wrote:On December 19 2011 18:49 chenchen wrote:
Yeah for some odd reason, westerners seem to think that China and Taiwan are analogous to North Korea and South Korea.
It's probably more analogous to Canada and the US. You can travel freely between China and Taiwan just like how you can travel freely between Canada and the US. Mainland China and Taiwan share the exact same cultural heritage and a common history. Every Taiwanese student has studied Chinese literature and Chinese history for most of their life, since elementary school. 98% of Taiwanese people, essentially everyone except for aboriginals, have ancestry somewhere in Mainland China. Taiwanese and Chinese films, tv series, and music are all promoted on both sides of the strait. Some Taiwanese, mostly the younger ones, might get irked when you call him Chinese, just like how a Canadian might get offended if you call him American, but that's only because they don't want to associate themselves with the communist government. There are many many totally different terms in Chinese that are all translated into English as "Chinese person" (citizen of the Middle Kingdom, descendant of the Yellow Emperor, descendant of the Han Dynasty, etc etc). When a Taiwanese person refers to himself as being "not Chinese", he's more likely than not referring to the fact that he's not a citizen of the People's Republic of China. There are certain Chinese terms that are translated as "Chinese" that almost no Taiwanese person can deny as what they are. The very same Republic of China government that brainwashed three generations of Taiwanese to hate the communists also shoved Chinese culture down their throats, choking out any sort of regional Taiwanese identity. as a Taiwanese, i found most of these correct culturally and ethnically Chinese and Taiwanese are almost identical we study Chinese history, Chinese literature and Chinese philosophy we don't deny being culturally Chinese, we are nothing if we do so we are proud of it there are many ways to say that in Chinese, but English translate almost all of those vocabulary or phrase into the same one......"Chinese" like "華人"-descendant of Chinese (ethnically) "漢人"-descendant of Han Dynasty as the previous post say "中文"-Chinese (language) "中國人"-Chinese (nationality) so it is both right and wrong to call a Taiwanese "Chinese" in so many ways we are Chinese, but in others we are not and this fact will also be true in a lot of Asian countries and to make it clear, Taiwanese have been calling ourselves Chinese less in recent years most of the time, we preferred to be called Taiwanese the majority of Taiwanese don't actually hate Chinese people we just don't like their government bully us in international events I'm pretty sure the language is called 'Mandrin', not chinese.
"Mandarin" is actually a word originated from Indian language, meaning "officer" or "official". Western colonists adopted this word during their time in asia to describe the "offcial language" that Chinese officers speaks. Unlike the English or other latino language, Chinese characters emphasize more about the meaning rather than pronunciation. This result into a situation that ppl speak differently across the contry while there's only one form of written language. Mandarin is the way spoken in northern China area and used as a standard nowadays.
To explain this in more detail. People in bay area probably can tell if someone has a New York accent, but wont have any difficaulty to understand their speakings. Even for more distant land such as Austrilia or even Indian/Chinese immigrant who's not very fluent with English this is not a significant problem b/c English language itself can be read as it is. Without using Mandarin as a standard a Shanghainese just cannot vocally communicate with a Cantonese, despite that they probably read posts from eachother on forum everyday.
Chinese language by its written form is the most influencial language in asia area. Japanese retain about 2000 "kanji" (Chinese character) in daily use, and even in modern Korea Chinese characters are the formal way of writting, Korean language in everyday use is acutally an artifically language that specifically designed to lower the rate of illiteracy (Korean express the pronunciation, like english).
After KMT retreat from mainland, Mandarin has became the standard Taiwanese language. A Beijinger would have difficualty to understand what a Cantonese is talking, but can commuticate with Taiwanese w/o the slightest trouble, just because of Mandarin.
|
On December 19 2011 19:35 fish83814 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2011 18:49 chenchen wrote:
Yeah for some odd reason, westerners seem to think that China and Taiwan are analogous to North Korea and South Korea.
It's probably more analogous to Canada and the US. You can travel freely between China and Taiwan just like how you can travel freely between Canada and the US. Mainland China and Taiwan share the exact same cultural heritage and a common history. Every Taiwanese student has studied Chinese literature and Chinese history for most of their life, since elementary school. 98% of Taiwanese people, essentially everyone except for aboriginals, have ancestry somewhere in Mainland China. Taiwanese and Chinese films, tv series, and music are all promoted on both sides of the strait. Some Taiwanese, mostly the younger ones, might get irked when you call him Chinese, just like how a Canadian might get offended if you call him American, but that's only because they don't want to associate themselves with the communist government. There are many many totally different terms in Chinese that are all translated into English as "Chinese person" (citizen of the Middle Kingdom, descendant of the Yellow Emperor, descendant of the Han Dynasty, etc etc). When a Taiwanese person refers to himself as being "not Chinese", he's more likely than not referring to the fact that he's not a citizen of the People's Republic of China. There are certain Chinese terms that are translated as "Chinese" that almost no Taiwanese person can deny as what they are. The very same Republic of China government that brainwashed three generations of Taiwanese to hate the communists also shoved Chinese culture down their throats, choking out any sort of regional Taiwanese identity. as a Taiwanese, i found most of these correct culturally and ethnically Chinese and Taiwanese are almost identical we study Chinese history, Chinese literature and Chinese philosophy we don't deny being culturally Chinese, we are nothing if we do so we are proud of it there are many ways to say that in Chinese, but English translate almost all of those vocabulary or phrase into the same one......"Chinese" like "華人"-descendant of Chinese (ethnically) "漢人"-descendant of Han Dynasty as the previous post say "中文"-Chinese (language) "中國人"-Chinese (nationality) so it is both right and wrong to call a Taiwanese "Chinese" in so many ways we are Chinese, but in others we are not and this fact will also be true in a lot of Asian countries and to make it clear, Taiwanese have been calling ourselves Chinese less in recent years most of the time, we preferred to be called Taiwanese the majority of Taiwanese don't actually hate Chinese people we just don't like their government bully us in international events
Mainland and Taiwan are rule by different government, that has been a fact for more than 60 years. The complication is the majority of mainlander and about half Taiwanese actually think there should only be one China, the current situation is just a left over by unfinished civil war. From PRC's perspective, seeking to participate in international events AS INDEPENDENT COUNTRY is touching the buttom line and denying the future possibility of re-unite (for example, participating WCG as independent contry).
Actually there's something called 1992 consensus to address this issue, which is probably really hard to understand by ppl not much involved in this issue. What it says is basically both sides agree that there's only one China, but represent this very "China" differently. PRC agrees that Taiwan is eligible to get invovled with international events as the Taiwan province of ROC, in return Taiwan cease to seek for identity as independent county in those events. The offically name of Taiwan team in Olympic games is actually Chinese Taipei, and the Olympic flag is actually raised per there're any Taiwan medalist.
After all this is probably one of the most complicated political issue ever existed. There's really no hate between mainlanders and Taiwanese, but both side fell into politic tarpit and struggling to make a move without hurting other aspect of the existing order. We sc2 lovers shall not complicate this furthur more and simply enjoy the game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
