EPTGOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 97
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WritersBlock
Canada91 Posts
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ActionpointTV
60 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:55 turamn wrote: No shit? The reality, though, is that he needs to be punished, one way or another. None of the parties involved in this situation handled it correctly. I think, a lot of people are unhappy with GOM, because their actions looks a bit hypocritical to them, GOM accuse Naniwa of behaving unprofessionally and then decides to punish him for it, without any rules (as admitted by them in OP) being broken, which, in turn, is unprofessional on their part. You don't correct one offense with the other offense. | ||
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Trsjnica
United States477 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:00 Luigy wrote: But i am still talking about the strategy itself, not against any specific opponent. Now to make sure that you didn't miss this once again, not against any specific opponent. Okay, so in a bronze league game, the strategy can be legitimate (in the sense that it may sometimes win). However, we are not talking about a bronze league game. If you want to discuss if it is legitimate in bronze league games, please make a thread about that. This thread is about a high grandmaster league game. | ||
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andis35
Latvia346 Posts
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Apaquin
United States27 Posts
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Luigy
Denmark43 Posts
Okay, so in a bronze league game, the strategy can be legitimate (in the sense that it may sometimes win). However, we are not talking about a bronze league game. If you want to discuss if it is legitimate in bronze league games, please make a thread about that. This thread is about a high grandmaster league game. Actually if anything, this would be about a tournament game. But it's about GOM's decision on the situation so, get back on track shall we?  | ||
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Kazeyonoma
United States2912 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ne2jh/mlg_official_statement_as_requested/ This is going to be posted on our site a little later today but I thought I'd start here since a lot of the speculation is coming from r/starcraft Statement below- The original agreement between MLG and GSL through the League Exchange Program (LXP) stated that the highest ranked player in the Top 3 from each MLG Pro Circuit event in 2011 who did not already have Code S status would be granted Code S status at GSL for one season. With the announcement of the 2012 GSL season, their format changed and GSL changed the MLG Providence Code S invite to two spots at the GSL Blizzard Cup and Naniwa was awarded one of these spots. Unfortunately, the change was made without notification to MLG but it is within GSL's jurisdiction to adjust placement. -sd So MLG agrees that they wrongly announced Naniwa's code S, but largely due to a change in format of the GSL 2012 and lack of communication between the two organizations. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:06 andis35 wrote: It is not about whether he could win by doing this or not ( obviously not), but about the fact that GOMTV removed his spot without any legal reason. This means that they can simply ban somebody ( remove spot, whatever...) because they did not like how he played! Who are they to judge how players play, even if they do stupid shit ( Naniwa ) ? He maybe did it to have fun or entertain fans or gain popularity or whatever, there is no rule that states that you have to play to win the game, they (GOMTV) can not regulate how players play. If they would do that they had done it during the bitbybit bullshit era. Also, i have yet to see another match where a player takes his hand away from the keyboard and rest his head in his hands. Why are people making silly theories without considering the whole situation instead of nitpicking? | ||
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CallousCarter
United Kingdom81 Posts
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Trsjnica
United States477 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:06 andis35 wrote: It is not about whether he could win by doing this or not ( obviously not), but about the fact that GOMTV removed his spot without any legal reason. This means that they can simply ban somebody ( remove spot, whatever...) because they did not like how he played! Who are they to judge how players play, even if they do stupid shit ( Naniwa ) ? He maybe did it to have fun or entertain fans or gain popularity or whatever, there is no rule that states that you have to play to win the game, they (GOMTV) can not regulate how players play. Let's not use words like "legal." There aren't laws about who can or can't play in a tournament a person/company organizes. There may be contracts, but we aren't privy to those and don't know their contents. Who are they to judge? They are the ones who paid to organize the tournament and are paying the players. I would think that makes GOM *exactly* the party to judge. I know if I held a tournament or show-match on my stream, I would most certainly judge how much effort the players put into it, and invite people for my next tournament/show-match accordingly. | ||
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SkullEST
Estonia32 Posts
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:06 andis35 wrote: It is not about whether he could win by doing this or not ( obviously not), but about the fact that GOMTV removed his spot without any legal reason. This means that they can simply ban somebody ( remove spot, whatever...) because they did not like how he played! Who are they to judge how players play, even if they do stupid shit ( Naniwa ) ? He maybe did it to have fun or entertain fans or gain popularity or whatever, there is no rule that states that you have to play to win the game, they (GOMTV) can not regulate how players play. Yes they can ban for any reason they like. Most Leagues or organizations can do that. But they won't do it easily. They knew that some people will not buy tickets because they banned Naniwa. They knew they did something that will cost them money and no company likes to do that. So unless they see it as an absolute nessecity to keep the tournaments integrity alive they will not exlude anyone. In this case they did and I think the points that matter are a) he was paid to deliver four matches and only delivered three b) he played in front of a big audience and thoughtlessly disappointed them Both comes down to that while the match was not relevant for him it was relevant for other people. He has the fortune to get paid for his beloved hobby which not many people can claim. Musicians are another example for those people. Imagine a band getting invited to a special show for the best musicians and they don't get the price that they hoped to get but later on they are scheduled to perform live on stage. Nobody would argue that it would be okay if they just mumbled something incomprehensible into the mic and leave the stage because they are disappointed and because that performance can't help them win the Award anymore. And why? Because there are fans who paid money to see them and because the hosts paid them to perform. It would be no surprise if that host decided to put them on the B stage instead of the main stage during the next festivals. The Naniwa situation is not much different. What he did was pure egoism. He did not think about the fans. He did not think about his employer. And the employer rightfully punished him. | ||
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andis35
Latvia346 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:12 Assirra wrote: If they would do that they had done it during the bitbybit bullshit era. Also, i have yet to see another match where a player takes his hand away from the keyboard and rest it in his hands. Why are people making silly theories without considering the whole situation instead of nitpicking? I think you misunderstood me. I am not saying that they are banning everybody they want, but the fact that they can ban anybody who they want ( Naniwa's case) even if the given player did not broke rules. A game was played, they should have no control over how the players played it. EDIT: to Fenrax He DID deliver 4 matches, it does not matter how the matches were played ( in our case how the 4th match was played) | ||
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Helios.Star
United States548 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:10 Kazeyonoma wrote: Incase anyone missed this, but Sundance released an official statement regarding Providence Code S seed on reddit a few minutes ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ne2jh/mlg_official_statement_as_requested/ So MLG agrees that they wrongly announced Naniwa's code S, but largely due to a change in format of the GSL 2012 and lack of communication between the two organizations. It sounds like MLG thought he would be correctly awarded code S but GOM changed it to a Blizzard Cup invite without letting MLG know. | ||
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ActionpointTV
60 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:10 Kazeyonoma wrote: Incase anyone missed this, but Sundance released an official statement regarding Providence Code S seed on reddit a few minutes ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ne2jh/mlg_official_statement_as_requested/ So MLG agrees that they wrongly announced Naniwa's code S, but largely due to a change in format of the GSL 2012 and lack of communication between the two organizations. Then question is, whether MLG own Naniwa compensation for changing prize after event already took place? I think a good case can be made that blizzcup inv < code S seed, then Naniwa received less then what was advertised by MLG. | ||
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Elfian
United States28 Posts
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CallousCarter
United Kingdom81 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:12 Trsjnica wrote: Let's not use words like "legal." There aren't laws about who can or can't play in a tournament a person/company organizes. There may be contracts, but we aren't privy to those and don't know their contents. Who are they to judge? They are the ones who paid to organize the tournament and are paying the players. I would think that makes GOM *exactly* the party to judge. I know if I held a tournament or show-match on my stream, I would most certainly judge how much effort the players put into it, and invite people for my next tournament/show-match accordingly. Judging by MLGs statement GOM aren't being shady with their wording and Naniwa wasn't given a code s spot in the first place. However i don't think it's fair to insinuate Naniwa didn't put effort into the tournament, he clearly did put effort into the first 3 games. He didn't put effort into the last game when him and Nestea were already eliminated but i think that's relatively understandable. | ||
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:10 Kazeyonoma wrote: Incase anyone missed this, but Sundance released an official statement regarding Providence Code S seed on reddit a few minutes ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/ne2jh/mlg_official_statement_as_requested/ So MLG agrees that they wrongly announced Naniwa's code S, but largely due to a change in format of the GSL 2012 and lack of communication between the two organizations. You do not change things overnight (effectively stepping over previous "said" commitments, just because it doesn't fits the new schema) that's quite unprofessional. Anyway, more reasons to blame GOM instead of blaming Naniwa. | ||
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
Either way pretty shitty on GOM's part to not notify them after it was advertised all over the place that Nani would be given a code S spot. The whole situation makes upset. I think most of us can say without doubt that Naniwa not receiving the code S spot has to do with his Nestea game/drama at the blizzard cup. Gom has had multiple opportunities and plenty of time to correct MLG and the community if indeed Naniwa was not to receive a code S spot from his Providence placement. Tasteosis even stated on GSL that he had secured a code S spot! I for one see through the bullshit. What Naniwa did was childish and was poor sportsmanship BUT he didn't break any rules as far as we know, just poor decision making. What GOM has done is far worse though IMO. TL dr: Two wrongs don't make a right.... | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
If you read the statement from GOM, Naniwa was never actually given the spot in the first place, but was simply considered as one among many: "NaNiWa has been considered as one of the players to receive a Code S seed for the 2012 GSL Season 1 as a part of the this new seeding system due to his recent impressive results." From GOMs statement, MLG Providence had no special standing on the giving of the code S spot. It was a tournament among others. Rather, the 'prize' from GOM for was the Blizzard Cup: "It seems like a lot of people have been under the impression that NaNiWa has received a Code S seed for taking 2nd place at MLG Providence. The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence." The stories still don't match up. Naniwa has owned uo to his mistakes. Why do MLG/GOM refuse to take any responsibility? If one part feels wronged, you should make that clear as well. | ||
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