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On December 16 2011 02:05 Catalyst wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 01:18 Jameser wrote:
That isn't how an organization should behave it's childish and unprofessional, I don't even know why you would think it's okay for a tournament to "put someone in their place". they either violate the rules or they don't end of story You don't need to violate an explicitly stated rule to display patently unprofessional conduct. Throwing a match, without even asking if forfeiting is an option, certainly qualifies as unprofessional. Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 01:23 Voldron wrote:
It is not your call to decide and punish him for letting down his fans. You have a stupid bracket wich makes players play games they dont have to. Do you get punish for it? NO. GOM paid him to participate, and he accepted. His behavior afterwards affected not just himself, not just his fans, but the hosting organization and his sponsors as well. Rescinding a previously extended invitation is hardly out of line for a player who throws games with all those groups looking on. GOM's format is hardly ideal, but everyone knew what they were getting into when they agreed to play.
I'll take GOM's over MLG's myself...
It's not like this is some unprecedented move. Hasn't Naniwa got himself banned from two European tournaments this year?
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I dont like this move by gom at all. There is no reason at all to remove naniwas code s, and to say he dident have one. Was clearly stated that all MLG during 2011 would give a code s. Gom have been digging a hole for themself with this one, since they dident even say naniwa broke any rules. Witch he obviously dident. Would have been better with any other punishment. Like payment or something. WIll be fun to see next thing that happends about any game in gsl, even if it is a game played (unimportent game or not) with maybe sombody 4 gating to have a quick game (win or loss). If it aint a ban from code s there is going to be such a storm.
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Ty gomtv 
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On December 16 2011 02:35 Get.Midikem wrote:
I dont like this move by gom at all. There is no reason at all to remove naniwas code s, and to say he dident have one. Was clearly stated that all MLG during 2011 would give a code s. Gom have been digging a hole for themself with this one, since they dident even say naniwa broke any rules. Witch he obviously dident. Would have been better with any other punishment. Like payment or something. WIll be fun to see next thing that happends about any game in gsl, even if it is a game played (unimportent game or not) with maybe sombody 4 gating to have a quick game (win or loss). If it aint a ban from code s there is going to be such a storm.
No? If Naniwa 4gated the whole story wouldnt have happened. Gom is fine with 4gate.
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if naniwa's probe rush took nestea, then what's the story?
gomtv is a joke
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On December 16 2011 02:56 littleroc2nd wrote:
if naniwa's probe rush took nestea, then what's the story?
gomtv is a joke
Well unless Nestea goes into cardiac arrest that is literally impossible. If you ever looked at that stupid thread where someone tanks their MMR to the absolute bottom on bronze to get portraits by worker rushing, he wins about half the time by micro'ing his workers and his opponent doesn't understand all he needs to do is tell his own workers to attack. Nestea is one of the greatest players in the world and by the time the probes get there he has 8-10 workers against 7. Further Nani issued the attack command and stared at his monitor until the probes died. He obviously had no intention of winning and made it obvious.
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WTF,
cite:
'' The truth however is that NaNiWa has received the right to compete in the Blizzard Cup for his 2nd place achievement at MLG Providence.''
complete and utter BULLSHIT,
pls don't lie to us
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Some people are seriously weird. GOM did state when they announced the new format that the reason for changing the foreign seed is because the new GSL schedule does not exactly correspond 1 on 1 to the MLG schedule, its not to invite whoever the fuck they want.
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In my opinion all started when GOM denied Naniwa's request to forfeit the game against Nestea. There is no reaction without an action, never. What Naniwa did can be seen as a protest, you cannot force someone to do a thing that he doesn't like or wants to without expecting some WTF moments after.
The fact that GOM said in the first place that he broke an "imaginary" rule and that the punishment for this would be removal from code s seeds and later state that he never had a code s spot but "he was considered for" smells a lot. I guess their decision was kind of rushed and they (GOM) are trying to do some damage control (in a bad way)
To be honest, Naniwa did the right thing (yes everyone might disagree with what he did, but it was his choice, we should respect that, we aren't living in a master/slave governed world), he showed up for the game, he played it (even if it was for 1 minute and some seconds), he did his best using only one hand ) and by doing this he made a clear statement: "you force me to play a game that doesn't even counts , here's the result"
Keep in mind, our beloved pro-gamers aren't robots, they are persons (with limited will and stamina), their opinion (and decisions, in our case to forfeit the game) should be taken in account. GOM should be prepared to solve such issues in a way that's good for business and for everyone else. Clearly they weren't.
Hell, I rather see a match with Artosis against Tasteless anytime instead of watching some ppl forced to do stuff they consider useless/do not want to. Hey, that might be even better for audience.
All in all, GOM jumped the horse and now they are trying to justify it on a wrong ground.
PS: Naniwa shouldn't had to apologize. He did nothing wrong. I admire what he did, it takes a lot of courage (some ppl might call it immature behavior) to do such crazy stuff, too bad he backed off.
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On December 16 2011 03:07 HomeWorld wrote:
In my opinion all started when GOM denied Naniwa's request to forfeit the game against Nestea.
This is completely inaccurate. Listen to Nani on LO3, he never requested a forfeit.
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On December 16 2011 02:56 littleroc2nd wrote:
if naniwa's probe rush took nestea, then what's the story?
gomtv is a joke
The only way that can happen is if Nestea also behaves like Nani. And if it really happens, then Nestea will probably take a responsibility for his action by not participating GSL or any other tournament without GOM having to tell him.
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On December 16 2011 03:09 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:07 HomeWorld wrote:
In my opinion all started when GOM denied Naniwa's request to forfeit the game against Nestea. This is completely inaccurate. Listen to Nani on LO3, he never requested a forfeit.
then what was wrote in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295038 can be trusted?
Anyway, there isn't any smoke without a fire, Naniwa clearly was unhappy for some reasons.
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why would you even argue about it when even Naniwa acknowledges he has done something unprofessional and that there is no "meaningless" game?
if there is no need to give 110%, of course you shouldnt. that does not mean you can sit on the ground and do nothing. that will be regarded as disrespecting the opponent and the fans. Nestea clearly felt disrespected, and as you can see some of the fans are disappointed as well. you cannot possibly say whatever Naniwa did is to be encouraged.
I could see why he would feel disrespected but i believe Nestea has 6pooled in some pretty big games, which could be considered disrespect to the opponent who finally got chance to meet him in a serious match.
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On December 16 2011 02:56 littleroc2nd wrote:
if naniwa's probe rush took nestea, then what's the story?
gomtv is a joke
If probe rushes was a strategy that actually won, even sometimes, at top level, this wouldn't have been a story.
Heck, Naniwa could have tried to proxy 2 gateways into Nestea's base, obviously been caught and then GG'ed, and this still wouldn't be a story.
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On December 16 2011 03:13 Luigy wrote:Show nested quote +why would you even argue about it when even Naniwa acknowledges he has done something unprofessional and that there is no "meaningless" game?
if there is no need to give 110%, of course you shouldnt. that does not mean you can sit on the ground and do nothing. that will be regarded as disrespecting the opponent and the fans. Nestea clearly felt disrespected, and as you can see some of the fans are disappointed as well. you cannot possibly say whatever Naniwa did is to be encouraged. I could see why he would feel disrespected but i believe Nestea has 6pooled in some pretty big games, which could be considered disrespect to the opponent who finally got chance to meet him in a serious match.
Korean zergs these days are actually pretty good at 6-pooling, doing some damage, and then recovering and it turning into a pretty good game. I don't recall any games specifically, but I've seen a couple GSL games where this happened.
That is to say, 6-pool isn't necessarily an "I give up and am not trying" build--it's a legitimate strategy in a Zerg arsenal. It is akin to a Protoss proxying double-gateway or something.
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On December 16 2011 03:07 HomeWorld wrote:In my opinion all started when GOM denied Naniwa's request to forfeit the game against Nestea. There is no reaction without an action, never. What Naniwa did can be seen as a protest, you cannot force someone to do a thing that he doesn't like or wants to without expecting some WTF moments after. The fact that GOM said in the first place that he broke an "imaginary" rule and that the punishment for this would be removal from code s seeds and later state that he never had a code s spot but "he was considered for" smells a lot. I guess their decision was kind of rushed and they (GOM) are trying to do some damage control (in a bad way) To be honest, Naniwa did the right thing (yes everyone might disagree with what he did, but it was his choice, we should respect that, we aren't living in a master/slave governed world), he showed up for the game, he played it (even if it was for 1 minute and some seconds), he did his best using only one hand ) and by doing this he made a clear statement: "you force me to play a game that doesn't even counts , here's the result" Keep in mind, our beloved pro-gamers aren't robots, they are persons (with limited will and stamina), their opinion (and decisions, in our case to forfeit the game) should be taken in account. GOM should be prepared to solve such issues in a way that's good for business and for everyone else. Clearly they weren't. Hell, I rather see a match with Artosis against Tasteless anytime instead of watching some ppl forced to do stuff they consider useless/do not want to. Hey, that might be even better for audience. All in all, GOM jumped the horse and now they are trying to justify it on a wrong ground. PS: Naniwa shouldn't had to apologize. He did nothing wrong. I admire what he did, it takes a lot of courage (some ppl might call it immature behavior) to do such crazy stuff, too bad he backed off.
naniwa on live on three was like yeah i didn't ask if i had to play or try to forfeit, so try again. I don't want to watch a player put his hand on his chin and A move his workers, IDC what you think that requires of a player but I can watch that in bronze league games not in a game vs one of the best zerg vs one of the best protoss where all that was at stake was pride.
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Dominican Republic39 Posts
I <3 GOM TV Keep up the good work!
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Korean zergs these days are actually pretty good at 6-pooling, doing some damage, and then recovering and it turning into a pretty good game. I don't recall any games specifically, but I've seen a couple GSL games where this happened.
That is to say, 6-pool isn't necessarily an "I give up and am not trying" build--it's a legitimate strategy in a Zerg arsenal. It is akin to a Protoss proxying double-gateway or something.
Well the games i recall was him all-inning it, not trying any further. It's a shame i can't recall which game. But in a way i found that disrespectfull. And if it's a legitimate strategy i would call proberush the same. He may have executed it in a poor manner but still legitimate strategy.
Just to make clear i do not agree with what Naniwa did but disagree even more on what GOM did.
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On December 16 2011 03:18 Tamz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 03:07 HomeWorld wrote:In my opinion all started when GOM denied Naniwa's request to forfeit the game against Nestea. There is no reaction without an action, never. What Naniwa did can be seen as a protest, you cannot force someone to do a thing that he doesn't like or wants to without expecting some WTF moments after. The fact that GOM said in the first place that he broke an "imaginary" rule and that the punishment for this would be removal from code s seeds and later state that he never had a code s spot but "he was considered for" smells a lot. I guess their decision was kind of rushed and they (GOM) are trying to do some damage control (in a bad way) To be honest, Naniwa did the right thing (yes everyone might disagree with what he did, but it was his choice, we should respect that, we aren't living in a master/slave governed world), he showed up for the game, he played it (even if it was for 1 minute and some seconds), he did his best using only one hand ) and by doing this he made a clear statement: "you force me to play a game that doesn't even counts , here's the result" Keep in mind, our beloved pro-gamers aren't robots, they are persons (with limited will and stamina), their opinion (and decisions, in our case to forfeit the game) should be taken in account. GOM should be prepared to solve such issues in a way that's good for business and for everyone else. Clearly they weren't. Hell, I rather see a match with Artosis against Tasteless anytime instead of watching some ppl forced to do stuff they consider useless/do not want to. Hey, that might be even better for audience. All in all, GOM jumped the horse and now they are trying to justify it on a wrong ground. PS: Naniwa shouldn't had to apologize. He did nothing wrong. I admire what he did, it takes a lot of courage (some ppl might call it immature behavior) to do such crazy stuff, too bad he backed off. naniwa on live on three was like yeah i didn't ask if i had to play or try to forfeit, so try again. I don't want to watch a player put his hand on his chin and A move his workers, IDC what you think that requires of a player but I can watch that in bronze league games not in a game vs one of the best zerg vs one of the best protoss where all that was at stake was pride.
Clearly Naniwa was quite unhappy for some reasons, I do not think a person in his full mental faculties will go one hand on a chin 7 probes rush just because he can. I wonder how many ppl would try to improve this opening :D
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On December 16 2011 03:13 Luigy wrote:Show nested quote +why would you even argue about it when even Naniwa acknowledges he has done something unprofessional and that there is no "meaningless" game?
if there is no need to give 110%, of course you shouldnt. that does not mean you can sit on the ground and do nothing. that will be regarded as disrespecting the opponent and the fans. Nestea clearly felt disrespected, and as you can see some of the fans are disappointed as well. you cannot possibly say whatever Naniwa did is to be encouraged. I could see why he would feel disrespected but i believe Nestea has 6pooled in some pretty big games, which could be considered disrespect to the opponent who finally got chance to meet him in a serious match.
Did you even watch the match between nani and nestea? 7 probe rush? Are you kidding? It's more like 'a-click then lean back and watch how it goes' rush.
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EPT
