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On December 16 2011 00:29 jspark703 wrote:
in what culture is "intentionally throwing a game in a professional event" accepted? i dont understand why people talk about korean culture not accepting naniwa's action. naniwa's action must be discouraged in whatever culture you are in and it has got nothing to do with rules.
You must not follow any sports at all for something like this to come out of your mouth. Organizations as a whole give up ALL THE TIME, through benching their best players to minimize injury, trading their average players to other teams once they have no chance of making the playoffs in hopes of next season getting lucky through draft picks, and players just don't go 110% on the field. The ONLY reason players show up to games that are "meaningless" in real sports is "country/team pride" which is mostly for the Olympics and because showing up on the field is what pays the bills(contractually obligated). Games sell tickets and those tickets pay their salary and television contracts.
If players weren't contractually obligated to show up to meaningless games and go through the motions NO ONE would show up. Players give up all the time in games, they just don't scream it out of the roof tops because no one likes "a quitter" no matter how meaningless the game. All Naniwa did was not pretend as well as he should have about the game like the rest of the players do in that EXACT situation.
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On December 16 2011 00:40 Diizzy wrote:
foreigners should be happy they are seeded to code s. dont know how many koreans work hard to even get that spot.
not even the end of naniwa in gom. he just needs to prove he can qualify, the way it should be from the start.
And yet here we are, complaining just because a person who was undeserving of the Code S seed (because of the attitude he showed to the very tournament organizers that he was going to be given a seed from, though still technically "earned" his seed) was denied his "right" (or so we think).
It seems a lot of people are very short-sighted in how they view things. May be we shouldn't be surprise. As much as people love to think they're smart, stupidity is infectious and people will jump at the slightest reason to cry foul.
Maybe GOM shouldn't have handled it the way they did and I agree with that. What if GOM decided not to give Naniwa his prize money for Blizzard cup? wonder how people would have reacted...oh i know, we'd be more matured and say that GOM is now no longer fulfilling the terms of their contract. After all in a perfect world, the player we like > the integrity of the tournament and the professionalism/responsibility of a tournament organizers to all their sponsors/customers/etc.
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On December 16 2011 00:34 turamn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:27 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:25 gTank wrote:On December 16 2011 00:22 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:14 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:08 Jameser wrote:On December 15 2011 23:53 turamn wrote:On December 15 2011 23:47 Jameser wrote:It is true that NaNiWa has not taken actions that break any explicit rules, like for example using a cheat to gain an unfair advantage. NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match. This behavior does not match with the definition of a progamer as laid out in the paragraph above. so basically anyone who doesn't conform to this arbitrary korean culture where everyone seems to think they're a samurai and honor bound to do pointless shit for the sake of nothing will be removed from the GSL seed that they earned in a proper contest environment that actually mattered? not acceptable for me personally I'm affraid. To do pointless shit for the sake of nothing, huh? However you may feel, the fact of the matter is that cultural differences will arise many times in a sport that is global. ... for this reason all decisions from a supposedly global organization should be motivated by an already established rule, and as gom themselves clearly said, naniwa did not break any rules. at no point was it stated that forfeiting a game would be punished by disqualification from code S. There was no way for naniwa to know he would be punished for what he did. This affects the legitimacy of the entire community. it is also going to upset the sponsors. I would not be surprised at all if GOM had its sponsor's breathign down it's neck, asking "Why did your best of the best all star player cop out and throw the game like a child?" This is not behavior that is going to make sponsors happy. 1. the GSL rules clearly state that you will be disqualified if you fail to show up to a game. How is that even relevant? It does not have to be stated. There was already precedent for this. Rain forfeited Code S games and was banned, for even longer than Naniwa. The only difference is Naniwa showed up and then threw the game. Rain didn't even bother to show, which is likely why his punishment was more severe. On top of that, a player needs to understand that when doing something like this, not only is it going to upset the league, but 2. he wasn't even playing in code S, the blizz cup is a separate tournament and is only linked to code S in that they are both hosted by gom. 3. "he should have known" is a fail argument. How can you possibly expect naniwa, who's been in korea for just a few months, to be able to predict the actions of an organization based on a culture system he has never been exposed to before in a country he's never been in before? I'll tell you right now this is not the reaction you would from a swedish tournament host... yeah right, how can you expect Naniwa to know that he should play like a professional sc2 player on a tournament.... oh wait! he got kicked out of other tournaments as well so he has experience with this.... and what has this to do with swedish tournament hosts anyway?! obviously he knows he is expected to be respectful to other players and so on. but to be disqualified from a completely different tournament based on not trying to win a match that has no meaning in a trounament he already lost? that's completely different ... How are they going to get their point across by punishing him in a tournament he's already lost and made himself look like a complete tool in? They aren't. They are going to use the leverage they have to get their point across.
this is not professional conduct
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On December 16 2011 00:51 Jameser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:34 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:27 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:25 gTank wrote:On December 16 2011 00:22 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:14 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:08 Jameser wrote:On December 15 2011 23:53 turamn wrote:On December 15 2011 23:47 Jameser wrote:It is true that NaNiWa has not taken actions that break any explicit rules, like for example using a cheat to gain an unfair advantage. NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match. This behavior does not match with the definition of a progamer as laid out in the paragraph above. so basically anyone who doesn't conform to this arbitrary korean culture where everyone seems to think they're a samurai and honor bound to do pointless shit for the sake of nothing will be removed from the GSL seed that they earned in a proper contest environment that actually mattered? not acceptable for me personally I'm affraid. To do pointless shit for the sake of nothing, huh? However you may feel, the fact of the matter is that cultural differences will arise many times in a sport that is global. ... for this reason all decisions from a supposedly global organization should be motivated by an already established rule, and as gom themselves clearly said, naniwa did not break any rules. at no point was it stated that forfeiting a game would be punished by disqualification from code S. There was no way for naniwa to know he would be punished for what he did. This affects the legitimacy of the entire community. it is also going to upset the sponsors. I would not be surprised at all if GOM had its sponsor's breathign down it's neck, asking "Why did your best of the best all star player cop out and throw the game like a child?" This is not behavior that is going to make sponsors happy. 1. the GSL rules clearly state that you will be disqualified if you fail to show up to a game. How is that even relevant? It does not have to be stated. There was already precedent for this. Rain forfeited Code S games and was banned, for even longer than Naniwa. The only difference is Naniwa showed up and then threw the game. Rain didn't even bother to show, which is likely why his punishment was more severe. On top of that, a player needs to understand that when doing something like this, not only is it going to upset the league, but 2. he wasn't even playing in code S, the blizz cup is a separate tournament and is only linked to code S in that they are both hosted by gom. 3. "he should have known" is a fail argument. How can you possibly expect naniwa, who's been in korea for just a few months, to be able to predict the actions of an organization based on a culture system he has never been exposed to before in a country he's never been in before? I'll tell you right now this is not the reaction you would from a swedish tournament host... yeah right, how can you expect Naniwa to know that he should play like a professional sc2 player on a tournament.... oh wait! he got kicked out of other tournaments as well so he has experience with this.... and what has this to do with swedish tournament hosts anyway?! obviously he knows he is expected to be respectful to other players and so on. but to be disqualified from a completely different tournament based on not trying to win a match that has no meaning in a trounament he already lost? that's completely different ... How are they going to get their point across by punishing him in a tournament he's already lost and made himself look like a complete tool in? They aren't. They are going to use the leverage they have to get their point across. this is not professional conduct
No shit? The reality, though, is that he needs to be punished, one way or another. None of the parties involved in this situation handled it correctly.
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On December 16 2011 00:45 Hrrrrm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:29 jspark703 wrote:
in what culture is "intentionally throwing a game in a professional event" accepted? i dont understand why people talk about korean culture not accepting naniwa's action. naniwa's action must be discouraged in whatever culture you are in and it has got nothing to do with rules. You must not follow any sports at all for something like this to come out of your mouth. Organizations as a whole give up ALL THE TIME, through benching their best players to minimize injury, trading their average players to other teams once they have no chance of making the playoffs in hopes of next season getting lucky through draft picks, and players just don't go 110% on the field. The ONLY reason players show up to games that are "meaningless" in real sports is "country/team pride" which is mostly for the Olympics and because showing up on the field is what pays the bills(contractually obligated). Games sell tickets and those tickets pay their salary and television contracts. If players weren't contractually obligated to show up to meaningless games and go through the motions NO ONE would show up. Players give up all the time in games, they just don't scream it out of the roof tops because no one likes "a quitter" no matter how meaningless the game. All Naniwa did was not pretend as well as he should have about the game like the rest of the players do in that EXACT situation.
then what about her0?
he went 0-4 in a way more honorable way imo and to lots of fans...
and how is games sell tickets in other sports different to GOM trying to present high quality gaming?
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On December 16 2011 00:51 Jameser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:34 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:27 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:25 gTank wrote:On December 16 2011 00:22 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:14 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:08 Jameser wrote:On December 15 2011 23:53 turamn wrote:On December 15 2011 23:47 Jameser wrote:It is true that NaNiWa has not taken actions that break any explicit rules, like for example using a cheat to gain an unfair advantage. NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match. This behavior does not match with the definition of a progamer as laid out in the paragraph above. so basically anyone who doesn't conform to this arbitrary korean culture where everyone seems to think they're a samurai and honor bound to do pointless shit for the sake of nothing will be removed from the GSL seed that they earned in a proper contest environment that actually mattered? not acceptable for me personally I'm affraid. To do pointless shit for the sake of nothing, huh? However you may feel, the fact of the matter is that cultural differences will arise many times in a sport that is global. ... for this reason all decisions from a supposedly global organization should be motivated by an already established rule, and as gom themselves clearly said, naniwa did not break any rules. at no point was it stated that forfeiting a game would be punished by disqualification from code S. There was no way for naniwa to know he would be punished for what he did. This affects the legitimacy of the entire community. it is also going to upset the sponsors. I would not be surprised at all if GOM had its sponsor's breathign down it's neck, asking "Why did your best of the best all star player cop out and throw the game like a child?" This is not behavior that is going to make sponsors happy. 1. the GSL rules clearly state that you will be disqualified if you fail to show up to a game. How is that even relevant? It does not have to be stated. There was already precedent for this. Rain forfeited Code S games and was banned, for even longer than Naniwa. The only difference is Naniwa showed up and then threw the game. Rain didn't even bother to show, which is likely why his punishment was more severe. On top of that, a player needs to understand that when doing something like this, not only is it going to upset the league, but 2. he wasn't even playing in code S, the blizz cup is a separate tournament and is only linked to code S in that they are both hosted by gom. 3. "he should have known" is a fail argument. How can you possibly expect naniwa, who's been in korea for just a few months, to be able to predict the actions of an organization based on a culture system he has never been exposed to before in a country he's never been in before? I'll tell you right now this is not the reaction you would from a swedish tournament host... yeah right, how can you expect Naniwa to know that he should play like a professional sc2 player on a tournament.... oh wait! he got kicked out of other tournaments as well so he has experience with this.... and what has this to do with swedish tournament hosts anyway?! obviously he knows he is expected to be respectful to other players and so on. but to be disqualified from a completely different tournament based on not trying to win a match that has no meaning in a trounament he already lost? that's completely different ... How are they going to get their point across by punishing him in a tournament he's already lost and made himself look like a complete tool in? They aren't. They are going to use the leverage they have to get their point across. this is not professional conduct
That's your opinion. So what. IMO gom responded reasonably, given the circumstances and given their perspective. If you don't think it was reasonable -- fine -- but don't waste time trying to sell your point to people who don't hold your values/opinion.
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On December 16 2011 00:55 turamn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:51 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:34 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:27 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:25 gTank wrote:On December 16 2011 00:22 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:14 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:08 Jameser wrote:On December 15 2011 23:53 turamn wrote:On December 15 2011 23:47 Jameser wrote:
[quote]
so basically anyone who doesn't conform to this arbitrary korean culture where everyone seems to think they're a samurai and honor bound to do pointless shit for the sake of nothing will be removed from the GSL seed that they earned in a proper contest environment that actually mattered?
not acceptable for me personally I'm affraid. To do pointless shit for the sake of nothing, huh? However you may feel, the fact of the matter is that cultural differences will arise many times in a sport that is global. ... for this reason all decisions from a supposedly global organization should be motivated by an already established rule, and as gom themselves clearly said, naniwa did not break any rules. at no point was it stated that forfeiting a game would be punished by disqualification from code S. There was no way for naniwa to know he would be punished for what he did. This affects the legitimacy of the entire community. it is also going to upset the sponsors. I would not be surprised at all if GOM had its sponsor's breathign down it's neck, asking "Why did your best of the best all star player cop out and throw the game like a child?" This is not behavior that is going to make sponsors happy. 1. the GSL rules clearly state that you will be disqualified if you fail to show up to a game. How is that even relevant? It does not have to be stated. There was already precedent for this. Rain forfeited Code S games and was banned, for even longer than Naniwa. The only difference is Naniwa showed up and then threw the game. Rain didn't even bother to show, which is likely why his punishment was more severe. On top of that, a player needs to understand that when doing something like this, not only is it going to upset the league, but 2. he wasn't even playing in code S, the blizz cup is a separate tournament and is only linked to code S in that they are both hosted by gom. 3. "he should have known" is a fail argument. How can you possibly expect naniwa, who's been in korea for just a few months, to be able to predict the actions of an organization based on a culture system he has never been exposed to before in a country he's never been in before? I'll tell you right now this is not the reaction you would from a swedish tournament host... yeah right, how can you expect Naniwa to know that he should play like a professional sc2 player on a tournament.... oh wait! he got kicked out of other tournaments as well so he has experience with this.... and what has this to do with swedish tournament hosts anyway?! obviously he knows he is expected to be respectful to other players and so on. but to be disqualified from a completely different tournament based on not trying to win a match that has no meaning in a trounament he already lost? that's completely different ... How are they going to get their point across by punishing him in a tournament he's already lost and made himself look like a complete tool in? They aren't. They are going to use the leverage they have to get their point across. this is not professional conduct No shit? The reality, though, is that he needs to be punished, one way or another. None of the parties involved in this situation handled it correctly.
nope he does not need to be punished, why does he need to be punished?
gom needs to announce that they do not accept this behaviour, and write a rule that reflects this with clearly defined punishments, but there is absolutely no need for naniwa to be punished
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On December 16 2011 00:57 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:51 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:34 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:27 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:25 gTank wrote:On December 16 2011 00:22 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:14 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:08 Jameser wrote:On December 15 2011 23:53 turamn wrote:On December 15 2011 23:47 Jameser wrote:
[quote]
so basically anyone who doesn't conform to this arbitrary korean culture where everyone seems to think they're a samurai and honor bound to do pointless shit for the sake of nothing will be removed from the GSL seed that they earned in a proper contest environment that actually mattered?
not acceptable for me personally I'm affraid. To do pointless shit for the sake of nothing, huh? However you may feel, the fact of the matter is that cultural differences will arise many times in a sport that is global. ... for this reason all decisions from a supposedly global organization should be motivated by an already established rule, and as gom themselves clearly said, naniwa did not break any rules. at no point was it stated that forfeiting a game would be punished by disqualification from code S. There was no way for naniwa to know he would be punished for what he did. This affects the legitimacy of the entire community. it is also going to upset the sponsors. I would not be surprised at all if GOM had its sponsor's breathign down it's neck, asking "Why did your best of the best all star player cop out and throw the game like a child?" This is not behavior that is going to make sponsors happy. 1. the GSL rules clearly state that you will be disqualified if you fail to show up to a game. How is that even relevant? It does not have to be stated. There was already precedent for this. Rain forfeited Code S games and was banned, for even longer than Naniwa. The only difference is Naniwa showed up and then threw the game. Rain didn't even bother to show, which is likely why his punishment was more severe. On top of that, a player needs to understand that when doing something like this, not only is it going to upset the league, but 2. he wasn't even playing in code S, the blizz cup is a separate tournament and is only linked to code S in that they are both hosted by gom. 3. "he should have known" is a fail argument. How can you possibly expect naniwa, who's been in korea for just a few months, to be able to predict the actions of an organization based on a culture system he has never been exposed to before in a country he's never been in before? I'll tell you right now this is not the reaction you would from a swedish tournament host... yeah right, how can you expect Naniwa to know that he should play like a professional sc2 player on a tournament.... oh wait! he got kicked out of other tournaments as well so he has experience with this.... and what has this to do with swedish tournament hosts anyway?! obviously he knows he is expected to be respectful to other players and so on. but to be disqualified from a completely different tournament based on not trying to win a match that has no meaning in a trounament he already lost? that's completely different ... How are they going to get their point across by punishing him in a tournament he's already lost and made himself look like a complete tool in? They aren't. They are going to use the leverage they have to get their point across. this is not professional conduct That's your opinion. So what. IMO gom responded reasonably, given the circumstances and given their perspective. If you don't think it was reasonable -- fine -- but don't waste time trying to sell your point to people who don't hold your values/ opinion.
"don't post your oppinion in a public relations thread from an organization"
makes sense bro, good post
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There is absolutely no difference. A GOM tournament is a GOM tournament, regardless of title. The reality of it is, they can punish him however they chose, whether you agree with it or not. How are they going to get their point across by punishing him in a tournament he's already lost and made himself look like a complete tool in? They aren't. They are going to use the leverage they have to get their point across.
Yeah it is true that they can do what they want. But if they do not tread carefully they might end up losing regular viewers who end up disrespecting them and their decisions.
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On December 16 2011 00:59 Jameser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:57 FallDownMarigold wrote:On December 16 2011 00:51 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:34 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:27 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:25 gTank wrote:On December 16 2011 00:22 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:14 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:08 Jameser wrote:On December 15 2011 23:53 turamn wrote:
[quote]
To do pointless shit for the sake of nothing, huh? However you may feel, the fact of the matter is that cultural differences will arise many times in a sport that is global. ... for this reason all decisions from a supposedly global organization should be motivated by an already established rule, and as gom themselves clearly said, naniwa did not break any rules. at no point was it stated that forfeiting a game would be punished by disqualification from code S. There was no way for naniwa to know he would be punished for what he did. This affects the legitimacy of the entire community. it is also going to upset the sponsors. I would not be surprised at all if GOM had its sponsor's breathign down it's neck, asking "Why did your best of the best all star player cop out and throw the game like a child?" This is not behavior that is going to make sponsors happy. 1. the GSL rules clearly state that you will be disqualified if you fail to show up to a game. How is that even relevant? It does not have to be stated. There was already precedent for this. Rain forfeited Code S games and was banned, for even longer than Naniwa. The only difference is Naniwa showed up and then threw the game. Rain didn't even bother to show, which is likely why his punishment was more severe. On top of that, a player needs to understand that when doing something like this, not only is it going to upset the league, but 2. he wasn't even playing in code S, the blizz cup is a separate tournament and is only linked to code S in that they are both hosted by gom. 3. "he should have known" is a fail argument. How can you possibly expect naniwa, who's been in korea for just a few months, to be able to predict the actions of an organization based on a culture system he has never been exposed to before in a country he's never been in before? I'll tell you right now this is not the reaction you would from a swedish tournament host... yeah right, how can you expect Naniwa to know that he should play like a professional sc2 player on a tournament.... oh wait! he got kicked out of other tournaments as well so he has experience with this.... and what has this to do with swedish tournament hosts anyway?! obviously he knows he is expected to be respectful to other players and so on. but to be disqualified from a completely different tournament based on not trying to win a match that has no meaning in a trounament he already lost? that's completely different ... How are they going to get their point across by punishing him in a tournament he's already lost and made himself look like a complete tool in? They aren't. They are going to use the leverage they have to get their point across. this is not professional conduct That's your opinion. So what. IMO gom responded reasonably, given the circumstances and given their perspective. If you don't think it was reasonable -- fine -- but don't waste time trying to sell your point to people who don't hold your values/ opinion. " don't post your oppinion in a public relations thread from an organization" makes sense bro, good post
"this is not professional conduct" was his argumentative response, which in no way rebutted what the guy had said in any meaningful way. hence my response. i guess you don't understand that bro, good post
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On December 16 2011 00:57 Jameser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:55 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:51 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:34 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:27 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:25 gTank wrote:On December 16 2011 00:22 Jameser wrote:On December 16 2011 00:14 turamn wrote:On December 16 2011 00:08 Jameser wrote:On December 15 2011 23:53 turamn wrote:
[quote]
To do pointless shit for the sake of nothing, huh? However you may feel, the fact of the matter is that cultural differences will arise many times in a sport that is global. ... for this reason all decisions from a supposedly global organization should be motivated by an already established rule, and as gom themselves clearly said, naniwa did not break any rules. at no point was it stated that forfeiting a game would be punished by disqualification from code S. There was no way for naniwa to know he would be punished for what he did. This affects the legitimacy of the entire community. it is also going to upset the sponsors. I would not be surprised at all if GOM had its sponsor's breathign down it's neck, asking "Why did your best of the best all star player cop out and throw the game like a child?" This is not behavior that is going to make sponsors happy. 1. the GSL rules clearly state that you will be disqualified if you fail to show up to a game. How is that even relevant? It does not have to be stated. There was already precedent for this. Rain forfeited Code S games and was banned, for even longer than Naniwa. The only difference is Naniwa showed up and then threw the game. Rain didn't even bother to show, which is likely why his punishment was more severe. On top of that, a player needs to understand that when doing something like this, not only is it going to upset the league, but 2. he wasn't even playing in code S, the blizz cup is a separate tournament and is only linked to code S in that they are both hosted by gom. 3. "he should have known" is a fail argument. How can you possibly expect naniwa, who's been in korea for just a few months, to be able to predict the actions of an organization based on a culture system he has never been exposed to before in a country he's never been in before? I'll tell you right now this is not the reaction you would from a swedish tournament host... yeah right, how can you expect Naniwa to know that he should play like a professional sc2 player on a tournament.... oh wait! he got kicked out of other tournaments as well so he has experience with this.... and what has this to do with swedish tournament hosts anyway?! obviously he knows he is expected to be respectful to other players and so on. but to be disqualified from a completely different tournament based on not trying to win a match that has no meaning in a trounament he already lost? that's completely different ... How are they going to get their point across by punishing him in a tournament he's already lost and made himself look like a complete tool in? They aren't. They are going to use the leverage they have to get their point across. this is not professional conduct No shit? The reality, though, is that he needs to be punished, one way or another. None of the parties involved in this situation handled it correctly. nope he does not need to be punished, why does he need to be punished? gom needs to announce that they do not accept this behaviour, and write a rule that reflects this with clearly defined punishments, but there is absolutely no need for naniwa to be punished
Because he made a mockery of their league and their sponsors. He consistently mocks tournaments he plays in and will continue until someone puts him in his place. GOM had the balls to do it.
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On December 16 2011 00:55 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:45 Hrrrrm wrote:On December 16 2011 00:29 jspark703 wrote:
in what culture is "intentionally throwing a game in a professional event" accepted? i dont understand why people talk about korean culture not accepting naniwa's action. naniwa's action must be discouraged in whatever culture you are in and it has got nothing to do with rules. You must not follow any sports at all for something like this to come out of your mouth. Organizations as a whole give up ALL THE TIME, through benching their best players to minimize injury, trading their average players to other teams once they have no chance of making the playoffs in hopes of next season getting lucky through draft picks, and players just don't go 110% on the field. The ONLY reason players show up to games that are "meaningless" in real sports is "country/team pride" which is mostly for the Olympics and because showing up on the field is what pays the bills(contractually obligated). Games sell tickets and those tickets pay their salary and television contracts. If players weren't contractually obligated to show up to meaningless games and go through the motions NO ONE would show up. Players give up all the time in games, they just don't scream it out of the roof tops because no one likes "a quitter" no matter how meaningless the game. All Naniwa did was not pretend as well as he should have about the game like the rest of the players do in that EXACT situation. then what about her0? he went 0-4 in a way more honorable way imo and to lots of fans... and how is games sell tickets in other sports different to GOM trying to present high quality gaming?
What is it with you people and 'honor' .. I wonder how many people looks at the way GOM handled this situation as a decrease in honor as opposed to an increase. Besides, to use 'honor' as a reason to rewoke someone from a tournament is not fit in the modern (western) world, its silly. Akwardly so (read: Samurai)
Such a culture clash, this
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Because he made a mockery of their league and their sponsors. He consistently mocks tournaments he plays in and will continue until someone puts him in his place. GOM had the balls to do it.
Implying you know what he's going to do in the future...
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On December 16 2011 00:39 ch72105 wrote:
I really think this is just cultural differences.
Outside of Korea, Naniwa would have been thought of as the owner of his performance in that game, and he can do absolutely whatever he wants with it as long as he isn't cheating.
And things that are considered disrespectful in Korea are thought of as more fun and jokey outside of Korea. Like players talking to each other during the early stages of a game, or trash talking each other during interviews.
These things are just part of the entertainment for us outside of Korea.
If Naniwa did this in an MLG or an IEM, Tastosis wouldn't think of it as an incident at all. They would just commentate on Naniwa's mental state, they'd take it as an expression of Naniwa's frustration with his performance, an expression of resignation and disappointment, etc.
It'd never be something that'd cost him a Code S seed, or require the intervention of a referee or anything like that.
Why people kept talking about culture. GSL isn't like any other league like MLG, IEM or WCG where players can do whatever they want. GSL is for highly skilled pro-gamers. In GSL, a player will be disqualified for even chatting and this is how serious GOM thinks about GSL. NaNiwa already regretted and said that there's no such thing as a meaningless game in eSports.
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On December 16 2011 01:03 Luigy wrote:Show nested quote +
Because he made a mockery of their league and their sponsors. He consistently mocks tournaments he plays in and will continue until someone puts him in his place. GOM had the balls to do it.
Implying you know what he's going to do in the future...
If I steal a loaf of bread every time I go to the grocery store, what's going to stop me from doing it the next time until someone does something about it? Patterns of behavior exist.
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If I steal a loaf of bread every time I go to the grocery store, what's going to stop me from doing it the next time until someone does something about it? Patterns of behavior exist.
You can assume he would continue but you cannot state it. That is the difference.
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On December 16 2011 01:02 BBMorti wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 00:55 gTank wrote:On December 16 2011 00:45 Hrrrrm wrote:On December 16 2011 00:29 jspark703 wrote:
in what culture is "intentionally throwing a game in a professional event" accepted? i dont understand why people talk about korean culture not accepting naniwa's action. naniwa's action must be discouraged in whatever culture you are in and it has got nothing to do with rules. You must not follow any sports at all for something like this to come out of your mouth. Organizations as a whole give up ALL THE TIME, through benching their best players to minimize injury, trading their average players to other teams once they have no chance of making the playoffs in hopes of next season getting lucky through draft picks, and players just don't go 110% on the field. The ONLY reason players show up to games that are "meaningless" in real sports is "country/team pride" which is mostly for the Olympics and because showing up on the field is what pays the bills(contractually obligated). Games sell tickets and those tickets pay their salary and television contracts. If players weren't contractually obligated to show up to meaningless games and go through the motions NO ONE would show up. Players give up all the time in games, they just don't scream it out of the roof tops because no one likes "a quitter" no matter how meaningless the game. All Naniwa did was not pretend as well as he should have about the game like the rest of the players do in that EXACT situation. then what about her0? he went 0-4 in a way more honorable way imo and to lots of fans... and how is games sell tickets in other sports different to GOM trying to present high quality gaming? What is it with you people and 'honor' .. I wonder how many people looks at the way GOM handled this situation as a decrease in honor as opposed to an increase. Besides, to use 'honor' as a reason to rewoke someone from a tournament is not fit in the modern (western) world, its silly. Akwardly so (read: Samurai) Such a culture clash, this
this has nothing to do with a culture clash, no one likes to see crybabies and poor losers in a televised tournament like that...
not even swedish ppl, im sure of that
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On December 16 2011 01:05 Luigy wrote:Show nested quote +
If I steal a loaf of bread every time I go to the grocery store, what's going to stop me from doing it the next time until someone does something about it? Patterns of behavior exist.
You can assume he would continue but you cannot state it. That is the difference.
Right, and until proven otherwise, there is no reason not to assume that it will continue.
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Right, and until proven otherwise, there is no reason not to assume that it will continue.
You may assume if you will. Doesn't change the fact that you earlier stated that he would continue tho you should have phrased it as an assumption.
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On December 16 2011 01:06 gTank wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 01:02 BBMorti wrote:On December 16 2011 00:55 gTank wrote:On December 16 2011 00:45 Hrrrrm wrote:On December 16 2011 00:29 jspark703 wrote:
in what culture is "intentionally throwing a game in a professional event" accepted? i dont understand why people talk about korean culture not accepting naniwa's action. naniwa's action must be discouraged in whatever culture you are in and it has got nothing to do with rules. You must not follow any sports at all for something like this to come out of your mouth. Organizations as a whole give up ALL THE TIME, through benching their best players to minimize injury, trading their average players to other teams once they have no chance of making the playoffs in hopes of next season getting lucky through draft picks, and players just don't go 110% on the field. The ONLY reason players show up to games that are "meaningless" in real sports is "country/team pride" which is mostly for the Olympics and because showing up on the field is what pays the bills(contractually obligated). Games sell tickets and those tickets pay their salary and television contracts. If players weren't contractually obligated to show up to meaningless games and go through the motions NO ONE would show up. Players give up all the time in games, they just don't scream it out of the roof tops because no one likes "a quitter" no matter how meaningless the game. All Naniwa did was not pretend as well as he should have about the game like the rest of the players do in that EXACT situation. then what about her0? he went 0-4 in a way more honorable way imo and to lots of fans... and how is games sell tickets in other sports different to GOM trying to present high quality gaming? What is it with you people and 'honor' .. I wonder how many people looks at the way GOM handled this situation as a decrease in honor as opposed to an increase. Besides, to use 'honor' as a reason to rewoke someone from a tournament is not fit in the modern (western) world, its silly. Akwardly so (read: Samurai) Such a culture clash, this this has nothing to do with a culture clash, no one likes to see crybabies and poor losers in a televised tournament like that... not even swedish ppl, im sure of that
Someone from Sweden will be able to see the difference between "not liking to see crybabies" and the kind of reaction GOM had to this.. as well as all the Korean fans and professional gamers with their professional statements in reaction to this, im sure of that.
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EPT
