EPTGOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 91
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Eko200
United States101 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:44 floor exercise wrote: Calling people who travel around the world and give up their life to play SC2 amateur prize hunters = good For the love of god that was a mistranslation used by CryingPoo who didn't bother checking the source for its validity. Do your homework if you're going to say something. | ||
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z0nk
27 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:38 turamn wrote: You can voice your concern all you want, but you must at least be aware that people will attempt to respond to said c oncern with whatever they feel is nessicary. In regards to 'blacking out unpleasant situations', yeah, I find it much easier, because there is absolutely nothing I can do to change it either way. GOM will make their decision and whether or not I pitch a fit and threaten to refund my ticket or not. It's much easier to not concern yourself with it either way I feel our conversation is going into a direction of how to deal with unpleasant situations, which diverges from the original topic. I wish (for real), I could get a piece of your pragmatic attitude. But on the other hand I wish you would also consider regaining some idealism. After all, although "it's much easier to not concern yourself with it either way", we are both concerned in one or another way, as otherwise we wouldn't be posting on TL. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:49 turamn wrote: Are you completelyobvlious to the entire world? This is how every thing works, all of the time. Whether or not it is right is debatable, but the reality is this is normal. I am afraid that your perception of how the real world works is very inaccurate. I am sad to say that you will be in for a rough awakening when you realize you can't just walk around and do whatever you want because you feel like it. 6 Pool - Yeah, It's better. At least he can play it off as a legitimate attempt to win a game. Fooling the audience - What are you talking about? It cannot be helped if a community memeber mis-interprets a language he does not fully understand. GOM made all of the statments public with information available as soon as they could. Interpret rules however - Yes, this is reality. Some rules are left intentionally vague on purpose to allow for the rule maker to gain leverage. Part of my job duties are "Other duties as assigned" which basically means, whatever the fuck they want, whenever they want it. It's life. People will try to gain an advantage wherever they can. Take revenge on players? Are you kidding me? I don't see any measure of revenge here. He broke a rule, whether it was fair or not. Punishment was levied. I am sure no one will make that mistake again. Sack players that don't play along? I don't think so. Again, he broke a rule, whether the rule was fair or not. it was within their rights. It is their league. If they want to present a certain image, it is fully with in their right. Players need to understand that if they are privleged enough to play in this league, that they need to present themselves in a certain manner. He's talking about how its dishonest of the players to not always play to win. Players admit to not giving a shit about such games thus they don't put much effort into winning. If you were on a losing team you wouldn't have the same confidence and you would be pulling stupid shit or not showing the same effort to win. Real world applications bud. It's lip service. That's part of tomfoolery as well. If your rules are vague then they aren't very good rules. That's why other sports organizations have entire books dedicated to them. Even then, we were told that GOM used no rule and thank God they came out and said that because the rule that people were shopping around was flat out terrible and every player would be in disgust because audience and opponent alike could take advantage of such a rule no matter what the scenario. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:47 Jameser wrote: so basically anyone who doesn't conform to this arbitrary korean culture where everyone seems to think they're a samurai and honor bound to do pointless shit for the sake of nothing will be removed from the GSL seed that they earned in a proper contest environment that actually mattered? not acceptable for me personally I'm affraid. To do pointless shit for the sake of nothing, huh? However you may feel, the fact of the matter is that cultural differences will arise many times in a sport that is global. You're trying to make it sounds like the Koreans are some evil corporate entity and they asked Naniwa to submit to their will and give them his soul. As far as earning anything, it is still unclear as to how he "earned" anything. If it is as truly stated, he was given a Code S seed because of a foreign invite system, not because of the League Exchange program. This is still open to debate, but regardless, it is not to be taken for granted. | ||
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Diizzy
United States828 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:55 Diizzy wrote: purposely losing no matter what reason should always be prohibited. Then there would be a crap load of more players being punished. Formats and incentives have to be revised. Cannot force players. | ||
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dejvo
Sweden20 Posts
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:47 Jameser wrote: so basically anyone who doesn't conform to this arbitrary korean culture where everyone seems to think they're a samurai and honor bound to do pointless shit for the sake of nothing will be removed from the GSL seed that they earned in a proper contest environment that actually mattered? not acceptable for me personally I'm affraid. Next time your boss tells you to do a seemingly pointless assignment, probe rush him and accuse him of treating you like a "samurai korean." | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:51 StarStruck wrote: He's talking about how its dishonest of the players to not always play to win. Players admit to not giving a shit about such games thus they don't put much effort into winning. If you were on a losing team you wouldn't have the same confidence and you would be pulling stupid shit or not showing the same effort to win. Real world applications bud. It's lip service. That's part of tomfoolery as well. If your rules are vague then they aren't very good rules. That's why other sports organizations have entire books dedicated to them. Even then, we were told that GOM used no rule and thank God they came out and said that because the rule that people were shopping around was flat out terrible and every player would be in disgust because audience and opponent alike could take advantage of such a rule no matter what the scenario. I don't disagree with the sentiment that they aren't good rules, however, it is likely that GOM did not plan for anything like this and that is why there are no rules for such an instance. I would not be surprised if they have some peopel feverishly typing away trying to come up with some more solid rules after this debacle. As far as the other guy, I may have misinterpreted, because it did not look like that was what he was stating to me. | ||
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dormer
United States1314 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:50 Telcontar wrote: For the love of god that was a mistranslation used by CryingPoo who didn't bother checking the source for its validity. Do your homework if you're going to say something. It was a mistranslation, but I also think it highlights one of the ways in which Gom could have handled this better. They should have released an English statement before / at the same time as they made the announcement on the Korean stream. There was a lot of misinformation about what had happened (the supposed insults about Naniwa, the rule under which Naniwa was being punished) that lead to a lot of heated emotions that just boiled for a good twelve hours until the official statement came. If they had released their statement sooner there'd have been (presumably) less misunderstanding and I think it would be easier for people to accept their decision; the initial picture of what had happened was a fair bit worse than Gom's real / current stance. | ||
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Trizzen
Norway74 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:02 dejvo wrote: Don't know why you can't play the game how you want... so stupid to ban him. I don't know why anyone would watch players dick around in one of the most prestigious tournaments in the world. | ||
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:53 turamn wrote: To do pointless shit for the sake of nothing, huh? However you may feel, the fact of the matter is that cultural differences will arise many times in a sport that is global. ... for this reason all decisions from a supposedly global organization should be motivated by an already established rule, and as gom themselves clearly said, naniwa did not break any rules. at no point was it stated that forfeiting a game would be punished by disqualification from code S. There was no way for naniwa to know he would be punished for what he did. This affects the legitimacy of the entire community. | ||
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gTank
Austria2610 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:02 dejvo wrote: Don't know why you can't play the game how you want... so stupid to ban him. epic fist post /facepalm i suggest everyone here should read this blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=295222 | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:50 Telcontar wrote: For the love of god that was a mistranslation used by CryingPoo who didn't bother checking the source for its validity. Do your homework if you're going to say something. Dude read the GOM statement again. They pretty much say precisely that but in a "smarter" way. | ||
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:02 bubblegumbo wrote: Next time your boss tells you to do a seemingly pointless assignment, probe rush him and accuse him of treating you like a "samurai korean." in that case I have a very clear motivation for doing what he tells me; he is my boss and it is my job the GSL is not naniwa's boss or employer, they host a tournament that he participates in. And what's more, even if they were naniwa's employers, they never told him to play the match out. also the two tournaments, blizz cup and GSL code S, are not even related by anything other than they are both hosted by gom. they are separate tournaments with separate qualifiers and separate prize pools etc.etc.etc. I don't see how actions in one tournament can disqualify you from another | ||
Chill
Calgary25998 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:48 Eko200 wrote: Does anyone else feel like both Naniwa and Gomtv have stooped to a new low? Naniwa's actions were hotheaded as always but in a "I should know better" kind of way. While Gom isn't making one big glaring mistake regarding this, a bunch of other mistakes they made including tournament format and succumbing to fan pressure have culminated to some of the worst foreign press reactions. They also need to change the rules to state players can't act in the way Naniwa did before they hand out punishments for a rule that isn't even in the books. Nope. Naniwa made a quick mistake feuled by emotion and has admitted his mistake and will live with it. I can forgive that GOM, on the other hand, had time to write their explanation of their policy and came up with this solution which still seems to me like they're trying to rewrite history and establish a league based on subjectivity. This does indeed have shades of KeSPA to me where they don't admit when they're wrong. Naniwa comes out ahead in my eyes. | ||
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Diizzy
United States828 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:58 StarStruck wrote: Then there would be a crap load of more players being punished. Formats and incentives have to be revised. Cannot force players. actually tournaments can force players. | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:37 ViTaLiTy17 wrote: It's simple. If you wanna act like an amateur in Korea, you will be treated like an amateur. I agree. I think gomtv's statement was well explained. It is their tournament, they can do whatever they want with it. What is always a bit confusing to me is how fast people forget or simply ignore the machinery that is behind projects like gom and mlg. There might be a good amount of bureaucratic involved, yes, but you can be damn sure that there are passionate people that work their asses of to create something great. Yes gom is not on the same level as a OGN Starleague, but each and every passionate SC2 fan and player out here should consider himself damn lucky that there are sponsors out there pushing money into the scene and good people who build up a platform for progamers to compete in. How about you ask boxer or xellos under what conditions they started with progaming? Living on a minimum, following their dreams because they wanted to compete! Not just money. It was the hope and vision of kids and young adults to build something that some here these days seem to take for granted. I don't expect Starcraft 2 pros to be lambs. But I expect them to respect their surroundings and realize that they are part of something greater. And one day, we might push things to BW professionalism and hopefully way beyond. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On December 16 2011 00:08 Jameser wrote: for this reason all decisions from a supposedly global organization should be motivated by an already established rule, and as gom themselves clearly said, naniwa did not break any rules. at no point was it stated that forfeiting a game would be punished by disqualification from code S. There was no way for naniwa to know he would be punished for what he did. This affects the legitimacy of the entire community. How is that even relevant? It does not have to be stated. There was already precedent for this. Rain forfeited Code S games and was banned, for even longer than Naniwa. The only difference is Naniwa showed up and then threw the game. Rain didn't even bother to show, which is likely why his punishment was more severe. On top of that, a player needs to understand that when doing something like this, not only is it going to upset the league, but it is also going to upset the sponsors. I would not be surprised at all if GOM had its sponsor's breathign down it's neck, asking "Why did your best of the best all star player cop out and throw the game like a child?" This is not behavior that is going to make sponsors happy. | ||
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