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GuoJing
France30 Posts
When I read something like "people anticipated a good match"... Seriously ? BO1 (bo1 for this kind of tournament, gg) match with 2 players already eliminated, and I am supposed to anticipate an epic match ? i'm not. gomtv disappointed me so much these days : bo1 format + naniwa thing... | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:37 GuoJing wrote: what I see is that gomtv is a little hypocrite. When I read something like "people anticipated a good match"... Seriously ? BO1 (bo1 for this kind of tournament, gg) match with 2 players already eliminated, and I am supposed to anticipate an epic match ? i'm not. gomtv disappointed me so much these days : bo1 format + naniwa thing... Well i am pretty sure that Naniwa/Nestea would have been one of the most anticipated matches of the day with the whole MLG thing so yea, people expected at least a decent match. | ||
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z0nk
27 Posts
half-hearted game = good / only playing if you can deliver your A-Game = bad fooling the audience = good / truth and honesty = bad interpret fishy rules however it suits you best = good arbitrary rules = good not giving a **** about the widespread but wrong assumptions about CodeS situation = either bad information policy or arrogance = good force players to put a smily face and play a game just to please the audience = good hire players as pure audience entertainers/clowns = good sack players because they don't play along = good / authentic players, staying true to their values bad react huffy and easily offended = taking revenge on players = good GOM did so much for esports, please do not challenge them, where would we be without GOM? = good What weird world are we living in? If this is what getting "professional" looks like I'd rather prefer esports not to grow bigger. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:45 z0nk wrote: 6 pool = good / probe rush = bad half-hearted game = good / only playing if you can deliver your A-Game = bad fooling the audience = good / truth and honesty = bad interpret fishy rules however it suits you best = good arbitrary rules = good not giving a **** about the widespread but wrong assumptions about CodeS situation = either bad information policy or arrogance = good force players to put a smily face and play a game just to please the audience = good hire players as pure audience entertainers/clowns = good sack players because they don't play along = good / authentic players, staying true to their values bad react huffy and easily offended = taking revenge on players = good GOM did so much for esports, please do not challenge them, where would we be without GOM? = good What weird world are we living in? If this is what getting "professional" looks like I'd rather prefer esports not to grow bigger. Are you completelyobvlious to the entire world? This is how every thing works, all of the time. Whether or not it is right is debatable, but the reality is this is normal. I am afraid that your perception of how the real world works is very inaccurate. I am sad to say that you will be in for a rough awakening when you realize you can't just walk around and do whatever you want because you feel like it. 6 Pool - Yeah, It's better. At least he can play it off as a legitimate attempt to win a game. Fooling the audience - What are you talking about? It cannot be helped if a community memeber mis-interprets a language he does not fully understand. GOM made all of the statments public with information available as soon as they could. Interpret rules however - Yes, this is reality. Some rules are left intentionally vague on purpose to allow for the rule maker to gain leverage. Part of my job duties are "Other duties as assigned" which basically means, whatever the fuck they want, whenever they want it. It's life. People will try to gain an advantage wherever they can. Take revenge on players? Are you kidding me? I don't see any measure of revenge here. He broke a rule, whether it was fair or not. Punishment was levied. I am sure no one will make that mistake again. Sack players that don't play along? I don't think so. Again, he broke a rule, whether the rule was fair or not. it was within their rights. It is their league. If they want to present a certain image, it is fully with in their right. Players need to understand that if they are privleged enough to play in this league, that they need to present themselves in a certain manner. | ||
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hmsrenown
Canada1263 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:08 turamn wrote: PROTIP: Whining or arguing about whether or not GOMTV or Naniwa was right or wrong will not solve anything. The decision is made and over with. Time to move on! The perceived problem is really not about this decision but HOW GOM came about to have this decision. It is clear that they did not establish the rules for punishing a player for such behaviour, and vastly stretched their pre-existing rule to give a marginal reason for this discipline. Edit: The poster above me need to reread the arguments posted. The perception of how "real world" works has no relation to how a competitive tournament should handle itself. | ||
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Focuspants
Canada780 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:40 Fjodorov wrote: Have you not read what Naniwa has said? He clearly states that he he felt he would be letting is fans down by giving them a half hearted game in which he couldnt stay true to himself and he thinks they deserve better than that. He thougth that it would be better to forget about this meaningless game and wait for a real oppurtunity to give the fans something special. To bad so many ppl only see business and dollars and fail to see the beautiful gesture this actually is to real sc2 fans. You are so delusional, it isnt even funny. Did you choose to not read this from him: "For a long time, I never really played this game for anyone else other than myself. Now, I realize that it involves so much more than that. I’m not alone playing from my home anymore; there are so many people watching my every game, and wanting to see me perform at my best. I don’t just play for myself anymore, but for all the fans of StarCraft 2 and eSports. Clearly, being a pro-gamer involves a lot more than I initially thought" | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:50 hmsrenown wrote: The perceived problem is really not about this decision but HOW GOM came about to have this decision. It is clear that they did not establish the rules for punishing a player for such behaviour, and vastly stretched their pre-existing rule to give a marginal reason for this discipline. Edit: The poster above me need to reread the arguments posted. The perception of how "real world" works has no relation to how a competitive tournament should handle itself. That statement was in regards to the interpretation of th rules. The rules are left vague in an attempt to gain leverage in any situation that they could. It is a very common practice. I don't know how this is news to anyone. If GOM or any organization wants to leave their rules vague, they allow them selves to enforce them in a manner of which they could not normally do with more specific rules. This lets them make decisions on situations that may not be directly defined in their ruleset. I don't see how this doesn't apply to a real world situation, as it is an extremely common practice. I was merely pointing out that the poster needs to understand this. While you may not think that this is an acceptable practice, the reality is that this happens on regular basis. This is nothing new. | ||
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justinpal
United States3810 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:49 turamn wrote: Are you completelyobvlious to the entire world? This is how every thing works, all of the time. Whether or not it is right is debatable, but the reality is this is normal. I am afraid that your perception of how the real world works is very inaccurate. I am sad to say that you will be in for a rough awakening when you realize you can't just walk around and do whatever you want because you feel like it. Um, the real world works in a lot of ways. The term professional can't really be applied to GOM, who makes up rules interprets them uniquely with each situation. That's the point he is making, he's not saying "how can we accept GOM's decision in this PERFECT world we live in." I don't know why you are worried for his perception of the "real world" because he seems to have a good grasp on the situation. He is appalled by the fact that GOM is throwing around the word "professional" when they don't hold themselves to that standard. We may be idealists if we want eSports to uphold agreements and standards, but why should we help grow it? We want professionalism, not another commercial industry that hides behinds ideals that they don't even come close to attempting to uphold. | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
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Deadlyeye
Germany14 Posts
Naniwa is a pro player, the match was without effect whatsoever, like a BO5 where u play the 5th game at a score of 3:1... the community has to grow out of the idea that a professional player is an entertainer! if u get payed to play for 5 hours straight, well u play the time, but if we want a performance oriented league system this needs to stop. a player needs to play the tournament, the casters need to make the (sometimes boring, sometimes rush/cheese) games fun. theres not a single sport (i watch) wheres only topnotch matches, sometimes one dominates, somtimes both just play bad, thats true for basketball, football and all the others, why should starcraft be the only exception. yes, i would have liked a epic match between nani and nestea, but both where out, why should a pro put all his effort into a match that doesent count anything, its not like he gets payed for more... well maybee from his sponsors, but thats another point. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:01 justinpal wrote: Um, the real world works in a lot of ways. The term professional can't really be applied to GOM, who makes up rules interprets them uniquely with each situation. That's the point he is making, he's not saying "how can we accept GOM's decision in this PERFECT world we live in." I don't know why you are worried for his perception of the "real world" because he seems to have a good grasp on the situation. He is appalled by the fact that GOM is throwing around the word "professional" when they don't hold themselves to that standard. We may be idealists if we want eSports to uphold agreements and standards, but why should we help grow it? We want professionalism, not another commercial industry that hides behinds ideals that they don't even come close to attempting to uphold. How are they unprofessional? Because they chose to interpret a rule in a way that you don't approve of? Again, I don't see how this is a big deal. If you're claiming that they are attempting to present a farse in which they come off as professional, I do not think that is the reality. They are setting a precedent for professional behavior. Whether you like how they used a loosely defined rule to justify their decision, the reality is that they are well within their right. Again, rules are defined in such a manner to allow for these types of things to occur. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:10 Deadlyeye wrote: tbh, i think that revoking a earned spot is out of line, a pro that cant count on the spot in code s that he won and pays a lot of money to come to korea for it... bad example. Naniwa is a pro player, the match was without effect whatsoever, like a BO5 where u play the 5th game at a score of 3:1... the community has to grow out of the idea that a professional player is an entertainer! if u get payed to play for 5 hours straight, well u play the time, but if we want a performance oriented league system this needs to stop. a player needs to play the tournament, the casters need to make the (sometimes boring, sometimes rush/cheese) games fun. theres not a single sport (i watch) wheres only topnotch matches, sometimes one dominates, somtimes both just play bad, thats true for basketball, football and all the others, why should starcraft be the only exception. yes, i would have liked a epic match between nani and nestea, but both where out, why should a pro put all his effort into a match that doesent count anything, its not like he gets payed for more... well maybee from his sponsors, but thats another point. Yes, because nobody watches sports for entertainment. It is completely unrealistic for people to want to take enjoyment from such a thing. Here's a better question: why shouldn't a pro put all his effort into every televised match he plays? He has sponsors' names written on those little badges all over his shirt, sponsors who are greatly responsible for that pro being where he is and doing what he's doing. Do those sponsors want their representative half-assing it? I'm no mind-reader, but I'd guess the answer is no. | ||
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Xalorian
Canada433 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:34 turamn wrote: Their return policy is three days. If you are within that time frame, i am sure they will be happy to refund it. Otherwise, good luck. I really don't understand why people think that this decision entitles them to a refund. I payed for Starcraft 2, but Blizzard removed Void Ray speed...better get a refund because I don't like it. Must suck to be worried about 100 bucks  GOMTV refund Policy "Ticket Policy Refund is possible within 3 days of the ticket purchase, only if you do not have any history of using the VODs or the HQ Live stream service. Besides the case of a problem related with the service provision of GOMTV.net, the transaction fee will be deducted from the amount of the refund given When cancelling a premium subscription you will not able to purchase a premium subscription ticket again for one month. Common Policy Refund requests will usually be processed within 5 days after the request has been made. The live broadcast schedule may change due to various unforeseeable reasons. This may not be used as grounds for a refund request. Ill-mannered behavior such as trying to abuse the refund system is prohibited and will be penalized by denying refunds and future purchases. Live broadcast or VOD service problems due to equipment malfunction caused by natural disasters are not eligible grounds for a refund request. Upon receiving a refund due to our services not being fully available in your region, further purchases of our premium services may be restricted until our service issues are fully resolved in your region." I'm pretty sure that you would get a refund anyway, tho. If they don't want to, just send a mail to them and their sponsors, saying that the season has not yet started, therefore that they should give you a refund, and that it's pretty much a scam. | ||
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z0nk
27 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:49 turamn wrote: Are you completelyobvlious to the entire world? This is how every thing works, all of the time. Whether or not it is right is debatable, but the reality is this is normal. I am afraid that your perception of how the real world works is very inaccurate. I am sad to say that you will be in for a rough awakening when you realize you can't just walk around and do whatever you want because you feel like it. [...] Yeah. You're right. The world is messed up. Just deal with it. Let's not try to change things, because this is just "how things work". Great attitude. I give you both thumbs up for that. Just because I'm pointing out some misconception does not mean I'm oblivious. Unfortunately I'm experienced enough to have given up to change things either (whether this is good or not is debateable). However, I do not get why you offend people for pointing out the shady sides of things? Voicing some concerns, although having no real means to change things should still be allowed, hm? If you decide to black out unpleasant situations just because this is "how things work" it is you who closes both eyes and being oblivious? Only good thing about the whole controversy: At least Naniwa loses his delusions. edit: thanks justinpal for the assistance. That is exactly what I wanted to say. | ||
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Turage
Romania6 Posts
I know I would not be as supporting as some of the people are in this threads. | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:22 z0nk wrote: Yeah. You're right. The world is messed up. Just deal with it. Let's not try to change things, because this is just "how things work". Great attitude. I give you both thumbs up for that. Just because I'm pointing out some misconception does not mean I'm oblivious. Unfortunately I'm experienced enough to have given up to change things either (whether this is good or not is debateable). However, I do not get why you offend people for pointing out the shady sides of things? Voicing some concerns, although having no real means to change things should still be allowed, hm? If you decide to black out unpleasant situations just because this is "how things work" it is you who closes both eyes and being oblivious? Only good thing about the whole controversy: At least Naniwa loses his delusions. edit: thanks justinpal for the assistance. That is exactly what I wanted to say. You can voice your concern all you want, but you must at least be aware that people will attempt to respond to said c oncern with whatever they feel is nessicary. In regards to 'blacking out unpleasant situations', yeah, I find it much easier, because there is absolutely nothing I can do to change it either way. GOM will make their decision and whether or not I pitch a fit and threaten to refund my ticket or not. It's much easier to not concern yourself with it either way | ||
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Swwww
Switzerland812 Posts
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On December 15 2011 22:45 z0nk wrote: 6 pool = good / probe rush = bad half-hearted game = good / only playing if you can deliver your A-Game = bad fooling the audience = good / truth and honesty = bad interpret fishy rules however it suits you best = good arbitrary rules = good not giving a **** about the widespread but wrong assumptions about CodeS situation = either bad information policy or arrogance = good force players to put a smily face and play a game just to please the audience = good hire players as pure audience entertainers/clowns = good sack players because they don't play along = good / authentic players, staying true to their values bad react huffy and easily offended = taking revenge on players = good GOM did so much for esports, please do not challenge them, where would we be without GOM? = good What weird world are we living in? If this is what getting "professional" looks like I'd rather prefer esports not to grow bigger. Calling people who travel around the world and give up their life to play SC2 amateur prize hunters = good | ||
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turamn
United States1374 Posts
On December 15 2011 23:44 floor exercise wrote: Calling people who travel around the world and give up their life to play SC2 amateur prize hunters = good Continuing to beat into the ground a quote that was already taken as a mistranslation and cleared up = good. | ||
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Jameser
Sweden951 Posts
It is true that NaNiWa has not taken actions that break any explicit rules, like for example using a cheat to gain an unfair advantage. NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match. This behavior does not match with the definition of a progamer as laid out in the paragraph above. so basically anyone who doesn't conform to this arbitrary korean culture where everyone seems to think they're a samurai and honor bound to do pointless shit for the sake of nothing will be removed from the GSL seed that they earned in a proper contest environment that actually mattered? not acceptable for me personally I'm affraid. | ||
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