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Kettchup
United States1911 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:23 Velr wrote: It's still true. The outrage wasn't nearly as big (but there was one) and the punishments were harder. Considering the actions were in a tiny tourney that almost no one actually watched, I'd say the outrage was pretty damn huge for that situation. So no, the accusation of racism is not true. | ||
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purpose
Sweden1017 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:32 FallDownMarigold wrote: Fallacy. Game was not important -- that was not the reason for his punishment. If you haven't gotten that by now, just get out with the trolling/blindsupport. We get it, you're from Sweden, you like Naniwa, but please respect the facts here. So all swedes just blindly defend Naniwa? I am from Sweden and I am the first to say that what he did was childis and not the best way to handle it. But still people get so freaking wind up over such a small issue. People say that Naniwa did wrong in not trying and what he should have done is PRETEND TO TRY. I mean wtf is up with that. its wrong not to try but its ok to go out and pretend that you care when in fact you dont. All in all the situation is stupied. Naniwa did a bad thing, he should have 4 gated. It was INAPROPRIATE, but thats about it. A statement from Gomtv would have been enough, maybe a smaller fine but nothing more. Just because he is Naniwa this got way out of hand. What if this would have been White-Ra, Ret, Tyler, Huk etc. No way would it have been such a huge thing. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:37 purpose wrote: So all swedes just blindly defend Naniwa? Nope. Regarding the rest of your post, you'll find discussion covering all of your concerns here in this thread. Read & then you won't even have to hold such incorrect opinions on the situation | ||
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Focuspants
Canada780 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:37 purpose wrote: So all swedes just blindly defend Naniwa? I am from Sweden and I am the first to say that what he did was childis and not the best way to handle it. But still people get so freaking wind up over such a small issue. People say that Naniwa did wrong in not trying and what he should have done is PRETEND TO TRY. I mean wtf is up with that. its wrong not to try but its ok to go out and pretend that you care when in fact you dont. All in all the situation is stupied. Naniwa did a bad thing, he should have 4 gated. It was INAPROPRIATE, but thats about it. A statement from Gomtv would have been enough, maybe a smaller fine but nothing more. Just because he is Naniwa this got way out of hand. What if this would have been White-Ra, Ret, Tyler, Huk etc. No way would it have been such a huge thing. What you dont realize, is that his punishment was LESS THAN A FINE. His only "punishment" was not getting a gift, they were going to give him. They technically didnt take away anything that was his. A fine would have taken away money that was his. All GOM did was decide to invite someone different. The outrage against his actions is that "meaningless game" doesnt exist in a televised professional event. You are representing more than just yourself. He didnt present the product he was representing. Thus he didnt get a gift from the organization he misrepresented. This is an extremely reasonable response. | ||
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kcbgoku
Poland156 Posts
GOM created stupid situation Naniwa made a stupid decision in this situation So if anyone says this is entirely fault of one of them is wrong, because there was fault on both sides. Both sides were unprofessional here. So GOM overreacted with this, nothing should've changed with Naniwa's code s situation. Either he had it or almost had it, I lost track of this. They should've given him a warning and made sure there will be no meaningless matches in a future. End of story. | ||
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Durin
Sweden9 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:39 mordk wrote: Great statement from GOM. It's pretty clear they've been reading TL forums closely hahaha, they pretty much dealt with every point that arose in this forum. If they are reading the forum why not go out and say he is consider for a code S seed but its not a given becuse im sure you go back and check the threads about MLG you will find text saying naniwa earned a code S spot | ||
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The Void
Germany428 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:14 iky43210 wrote: alot of sports have pointless games, but you don't see anyone sitting or quitting a game trying to prove a point what? let me correct you: alot of pointless games get quitted in alot of sports. + Show Spoiler + i don't have to study sport science, which i do, to know that | ||
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The Void
Germany428 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:42 kcbgoku wrote: Here is what happened: GOM created stupid situation Naniwa made a stupid decision in this situation So if anyone says this is entirely fault of one of them is wrong, because there was fault on both sides. Both sides were unprofessional here. So GOM overreacted with this, nothing should've changed with Naniwa's code s situation. Either he had it or almost had it, I lost track of this. They should've given him a warning and made sure there will be no meaningless matches in a future. End of story. Thank you, sir! That's it! + in addision they have to apologize to Naniwa and to the community for their overreaction. | ||
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purpose
Sweden1017 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:41 Focuspants wrote: What you dont realize, is that his punishment was LESS THAN A FINE. His only "punishment" was not getting a gift, they were going to give him. They technically didnt take away anything that was his. A fine would have taken away money that was his. All GOM did was decide to invite someone different. The outrage against his actions is that "meaningless game" doesnt exist in a televised professional event. You are representing more than just yourself. He didnt present the product he was representing. Thus he didnt get a gift from the organization he misrepresented. This is an extremely reasonable response. I agree that it is a good point but still the entire thing exploaded to much. If GOMTV would have just made a statement that Naniwas game was not appropriate and that he would recive no money for the tourney etc then this would not have been a huge deal. To take away his chance to get seeded blew this up way out of proportion and that hurt both GOMTV / esport and Naniwa. | ||
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gTank
Austria2610 Posts
first naniwa does the proberush and obviously lots of ppl are either shocked, outraged, disappointed -> nah, he didnt do anything wrong next, as consequence to that behaviour he loses his Code S seed -> nah, he didnt do anything wrong after that, even his team and himself apologize for his actions, explaining why he did that and how he realized it was a bad thing -> nah, he didnt do anything wrong finally, GOMTV explained why they revoked the seed, explained why they reacted to this -> nah, he didnt anything wrong its a huge and mature step to admitt he did something wrong and i respect him for apologizing, not for the bs he has done though. he might have not known about the consequences but not knowing makes you not immune to punishment, he is of full age ffs! what the hell do you expect GOMTV should have done? kindly talk to him and say "hey bro, we respect your opinion on not liking our tournament, but pretty please would you possible be so kind as to not disrespect our tournament in future? ok" | ||
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Durin
Sweden9 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:41 Focuspants wrote: What you dont realize, is that his punishment was LESS THAN A FINE. His only "punishment" was not getting a gift, they were going to give him. They technically didnt take away anything that was his. A fine would have taken away money that was his. All GOM did was decide to invite someone different. The outrage against his actions is that "meaningless game" doesnt exist in a televised professional event. You are representing more than just yourself. He didnt present the product he was representing. Thus he didnt get a gift from the organization he misrepresented. This is an extremely reasonable response. My problem with this whole thing is in the fact GOMTV played along with everything letting everyone belive naniwa earned a code S spot(3 weeks to clear it up but done first after they decide the dont want naniwa in code s). I dont disagree with it not being withen there right to punish a player for breaking whatever wierd worded rule they got but to claim something was a diffrent way a long time after the fact? is just sad and is what is making me upset To be honest i much rather seen them ban him from GSL jan 2012 and give the code S seed to someone else then to do this silly attempt at mindgame that is just pure insult for anyone able to read. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
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CmdBash
Australia38 Posts
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purpose
Sweden1017 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:49 gTank wrote: seriously, i cant believe Naniwa fans anymore... first naniwa does the proberush and obviously lots of ppl are either shocked, outraged, disappointed -> nah, he didnt do anything wrong next, as consequence to that behaviour he loses his Code S seed -> nah, he didnt do anything wrong after that, even his team and himself apologize for his actions, explaining why he did that and how he realized it was a bad thing -> nah, he didnt do anything wrong finally, GOMTV explained why they revoked the seed, explained why they reacted to this -> nah, he didnt anything wrong its a huge and mature step to admitt he did something wrong and i respect him for apologizing, not for the bs he has done though. he might have not known about the consequences but not knowing makes you not immune to punishment, he is of full age ffs! what the hell do you expect GOMTV should have done? kindly talk to him and say "hey bro, we respect your opinion on not liking our tournament, but pretty please would you possible be so kind as to not disrespect our tournament in future? ok" First of all, that quantic and naniwa goes out and explain does not mean they agree that he did something wrong. In this situation they probably figured the best way to get this over with was to do this to calm all the crybabies down. Second naniwa fans do not al say that he did not do anything wrong, but they do think that the punishment was wrong and that this was not such a huge deal that GOMTV and haters made it. This was vage rule that is hard to read and naniwa did a childish thing. I daubt that he understod how big it would blow up. If he would have he surely would have 4 gated. So Naniwa took a bad decision...yes, but is the effect of this correct....FUCK NO!!! GOMTV still screwed up, they still have a shti format and they still could have handled this 1000times better. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:07 bobohobo wrote: People stop quoting MLG articles and press releases as an authority on Naniwa's code S spot that he never had. MLG didn't go through with their end of the exhange for Providence. The 4 GSL players that were there: MC, MMA, Bomber, MVP, were there because of their accumulated MLG points and attended the event based on their past MLG performance, not because of the GSL-MLG exchange program. Even if it was part of the exchange program, MLG messed up because according to the terms of the exchange program, all 4 Korean invites were supposed to be seeded directly to the championship bracket, but MVP had to fight his way through the open bracket. Either the exchange didn't apply for Providence or MLG messed up the exchange. Either way, that means GOM doesn't have to give a code S seed to the top finishing player who is not already in code S. The obvious hole in that argument is, that if GOM didn't accept that MLG upheld their end of the bargain, why didn't they contact MLG/TL/Naniwa/his team to point out that naniwa did not qualify for a code S spot, contrary to what was written on the MLG-site, was reported on all major news-sites and was believed by EVERYONE in the western SC2 scene? Why wouldn't GOM clear up the confusion, if they had looked at what happened at Providence and decided that it didn't fulfill MLGs obligations? Instead, if we are to believe that story, they choose to say nothing, thus allowing Naniwa to establish himself in S Korea under the false impression that he was qualified for a code S spot. That makes no sense, unless you're ready to ascribe some pretty terrible behavior to GOM. | ||
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Focuspants
Canada780 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:49 purpose wrote: I agree that it is a good point but still the entire thing exploaded to much. If GOMTV would have just made a statement that Naniwas game was not appropriate and that he would recive no money for the tourney etc then this would not have been a huge deal. To take away his chance to get seeded blew this up way out of proportion and that hurt both GOMTV / esport and Naniwa. No, Naniwas fans, deicding what happened, and what the consequences should be, blew this out of proportion. Wait for a press release. Period. You agrred that my point is a good one. If people would have waited instead of raging, this wouldnt have happened. | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:55 purpose wrote: First of all, that quantic and naniwa goes out and explain does not mean they agree that he did something wrong. In this situation they probably figured the best way to get this over with was to do this to calm all the crybabies down. So you're saying maybe Naniwa wasn't sincere in the apology -- maybe they MADE him do it! Honestly, what's the point in this type of conspiracy/conjecture? Hmm...maybe aliens made Naniwa apologize. I can prove/know that about as certainly as you can prove/know that "they probably figured the best way to get this over with was to do this to calm all the crybabies". Logic fail. Second naniwa fans do not al say that he did not do anything wrong, but they do think that the punishment was wrong and that this was not such a huge deal that GOMTV and haters made it. That's ok. It's fine for fans to have supportive opinions during negative/tough times. Totally fine. This was vage rule that is hard to read and naniwa did a childish thing. I daubt that he understod how big it would blow up. If he would have he surely would have 4 gated. That's your opinion. Great. So Naniwa took a bad decision...yes, but is the effect of this correct....FUCK NO!!! GOMTV still screwed up, they still have a shti format and they still could have handled this 1000times better. In your opinion...BUT, the trajectory of this thread and its discussion leaves me thinking you are a minority in holding that opinion, just so you know. | ||
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gTank
Austria2610 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:55 purpose wrote: First of all, that quantic and naniwa goes out and explain does not mean they agree that he did something wrong. In this situation they probably figured the best way to get this over with was to do this to calm all the crybabies down. Second naniwa fans do not al say that he did not do anything wrong, but they do think that the punishment was wrong and that this was not such a huge deal that GOMTV and haters made it. This was vage rule that is hard to read and naniwa did a childish thing. I daubt that he understod how big it would blow up. If he would have he surely would have 4 gated. So Naniwa took a bad decision...yes, but is the effect of this correct....FUCK NO!!! GOMTV still screwed up, they still have a shti format and they still could have handled this 1000times better. lol who is crying here, obvously only ppl that think he didnt something wrong and this ist not the right punishment for what he did. and did you even read the official letter from quantic?!?!? This is why we feel it both necessary and appropriate, as a team, and as a family, to sincerely and deeply apologize for the events that occurred during NaNiwa’s final match against NesTea on Day 2 of the Blizzcup 2011 Invitational Tournament, hosted at the GOM Studio in Seoul, South Korea. apologizing is the way to agree that he did something wrong... please think about it without too much emotion | ||
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Durin
Sweden9 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:01 FallDownMarigold wrote: So you're saying maybe Naniwa wasn't sincere in the apology -- maybe they MADE him do it! That's ok. It's fine for fans to have supportive opinions during negative/tough times. Totally fine. That's your opinion. Great. In your opinion...BUT, the trajectory of this thread and its discussion leaves me thinking you are a minority in holding that opinion, just so you know. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294711 Sorry to link to a closed topic but the only one with decent amount of people voting on the fact they dont give naniwa a code S spot. Miniority with 54% thinking they did wrong? Sure it can be stated its a before everything was on table but if thats the problem should we not see if can get a poll on it to see what people actouly think becuse posts will never come near to reflecting what most people think. neither will poll but it will be closer. | ||
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