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On December 15 2011 14:05 dormer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 13:59 Crisco wrote:On December 15 2011 13:54 dormer wrote:On December 15 2011 13:51 Biane wrote:On December 15 2011 13:49 Kryptic.610 wrote:On December 15 2011 10:50 OhYess wrote:On December 15 2011 06:43 Gin-san wrote:
That's actually a pretty lame response, just like i expected it. They think they're 100% correct and only blame NaNiwa. Hopefully Blizzard won't give the next SC2 contract to you but to KeSPA. If it was KeSPA who Naniwa did this too, his punishment would be MUCH more severe. KeSPA takes e-sports extremely seriously, and punish ruthlessly. Which I do like in a way. Wrong, Naniwa wouldn't have a chance to do this to KeSPA because they would actually have a proper ruleset and tournament structure. Having a bunch of rules doesn't mean a player won't decide to break them on a temporary whim/emotion outbreak. And knowing Naniwa's history of doing things, he has a higher chances than most people in doing so. Yes, he does, but he specifically said that he didn't think about it beforehand and didn't realize at the time how it would upset people. If there had been a clear rule, he would have had to decide to break it, and then there'd be a clear reason to punish him -- he broke a rule. That makes everything much simpler and would avoid a lot of the drama here. you can't write a rule for everything.. nor can you prepare a rule for everything That's true. But you can't expect players to follow a certain code of conduct if you don't communicate it to them (for example, with rules).
i think a partial problem may be a cultural difference. Koreans generally know what is expected of them and the backlash that may occur if they dont follow through. As a korean, I already figured something like this would happen when Naniwa did that move. He's unlucky in that he's not used to those expectations and paid for it but he's also lucky in that he's probably being let off easier than a korean player would.
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On December 15 2011 14:08 aviator116 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 14:07 latan wrote:
talk about showing disrespect to the fans and viewers by blatantly "retconning" and lying to the fanbase. So naniwas arguable disrespect gets severely punished and GOM responds to the backlash with lies and more disresoect. 'retconning'? 'disreoect'? what in the hell is that? tell me where GOM lied. and Naniwa started all this, go blame him.
Did you read my recap point few posts up? If you did, you will realize that while they might not be lying, there is a huge disconnect between what GOM says and what MLG said.
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On December 15 2011 14:00 Shortynut wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 13:55 teamsolid wrote:On December 15 2011 13:52 Shortynut wrote:On December 15 2011 13:38 teamsolid wrote:On December 15 2011 13:33 Shortynut wrote:On December 15 2011 13:08 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 13:03 Shortynut wrote:On December 15 2011 12:44 teamsolid wrote:On December 15 2011 12:30 Golgotha wrote:On December 15 2011 12:23 bobohobo wrote:
GOM never released a statement saying that Naniwa got code S, it was always MLG that said it. People should stop crapping on GOM for what MLG said. We need to wait for MLG's official position on this matter to get the whole picture. It is entirely possible that there was miscommunication between GOM and MLG.
Second, GOM released their new GSL format back in OCTOBER which clearly indicates two international seed invites. Nowhere does it mention the exchange program with MLG. In any case, I'm leaning towards GOM and MLG not communication this well enough to the community rather than GOM lying about it. lol you helpless fools. if Naniwa never really had Code S status, then why did GOM stealth change some of their previous announcements just hours ago? Huh? huh? Yeah I thought so. Was there any proof of this ever happening? Huh? huh? Cuz I haven't seen any yet. Screenshots would be nice. Proof is hard to come by unless there's a copied & pasted version on another site BEFORE the changes, but yet i actually read the first article and it mentioned the comments about "money hunter" and "unprofessional". They were retracted several hours afterwards when the extreme amount of backlash became too overwhelming. If GOM had admittedly changed their statement and shown themselves to back down, they would've been backed into a corner and forced to change their decision. There is also the fact that on the Live stream during the Ro.6 on Wednesday (i will try to be as accurate as possible) Tastosis (Tasteless specifically) announced that "GSL have decided that Naniwa's Code S seed has been revoked for the start of GSL 2012 and he will no longer be allowed to compete in February". That isn't word for word because I honestly didn't expect such a massive shitstorm from a divided community and therefore did not even try to remember it, but you MIGHT be able to find it on some tube sight or even in the VODS from Wednesday night. I think their statement will validate GOM's initial response. No, they weren't retracted, it was mistranslated. The translator himself apologized. They were retracted AFTER the misinterpretation was realised DUE to the foreign community's rage at those remarks. If nobody had actually cared they probably wouldn't have gone as far as to correct it and formally apologise, but people were cut. Okay, now I know you're just making shit up to cause drama. GOM never translated anything, it was just another random guy from TL who made the mistranslation and apologized for it below: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294943 ok clearly you are too ignorant to understand my point. I am not talking about any article currently or previously on TL.net. I am referring to the statement released by GOM after the incident BEFORE the 'Announcement regarding NaNiwa" thread which is currently up. If you didn't read it, be quiet about what was said in it! because you honestly don't know what you are talking about. Okay, then clearly you're the only person on this planet that seems to know about this "secret" article that was posted on GOM. In that case, are you going to release this mysterious "statement" so we can all be as "informed" as you? Or are you just full of shit still. Clearly everybody came running straight to TL.net to get the news and see if anyone had started hate threads. I can understand why the moderators are being stricter than usual so i won't go any further on it, ill have to sit alone on this one.
Uh huh, yea, that settles it. Everyone else had their blinders on and no one was smart enough to actually visit GOM TV's site... except of course you.
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On December 15 2011 14:07 aviator116 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 07:12 KAkos MAgos wrote:
ok here i got a question. why idra and sen ? i mean puma, stephano are better in results then the one GSL has chosen. why not take them ? or some other european guys ? ...they have better GSL points than all the other europeans  plus puma already tried for Code A, and stephano had only one big tournament, whereas Idra has placed very highly at MLG, DH, and IEM. Sen just tears apart all Pacific/Asian players on the Eastern servers that aren't top level koreans
Puma isn't a foreigner and, at least if you believe GOM's version of the story, the seed is for foreigners. Further Stephano has said he doesn't want to play in the GSL.
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On December 15 2011 14:05 Crisco wrote:
i dont even know why gomtv had to argue whether or not he was supposed to be given a Code S spot at all. They have the power and the justification to punish Naniwa by removing his Code S spot, for his actions.
That's highly debatable, hence the hundreds and hundreds of posts on TL in which people are debating whether they are justified in revoking his Code S seed. There's a difference between Naniwa earning a Code S spot and having it taken away for doing something he didn't know was wrong that isn't technically against the rules and Gom deciding that his attitude just isn't appropriate for this pair of invites. Their point in the OP is that they aren't really punishing him by taking something that he earned away, it's just that the incident has lowered their opinion of him and they're therefore choosing to invite someone else. It's much more mild than taking away a hard-earned Code S seed over what was basically an unfortunate misunderstanding.
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I like how they are always right. There i said it. Both cultures are very different from one another, but i do belive western is more open to accept other culture than they are. This is a historical issue and probably will never be fixed. I just wish a foreign would win GSL, i would pay 300 dollars just to watch it.
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On December 15 2011 14:10 moonmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 14:08 aviator116 wrote:On December 15 2011 14:07 latan wrote:
talk about showing disrespect to the fans and viewers by blatantly "retconning" and lying to the fanbase. So naniwas arguable disrespect gets severely punished and GOM responds to the backlash with lies and more disresoect. 'retconning'? 'disreoect'? what in the hell is that? tell me where GOM lied. and Naniwa started all this, go blame him. Did you read my recap point few posts up? If you did, you will realize that while they might not be lying, there is a huge disconnect between what GOM says and what MLG said.
okay, i'll still take the longest running competitive Starcraft tournament over MLG any day of the week. especially since it was GOM's tournament.
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The controversy at this point is not what was said about naniwa in the Korean broadcast. That was due to a mistranslation. But that does not leave GOM beyond reproach. One problem is, that GOM is insisting on never having given a birth to code S to naniwa in the first place, and thus not having punished naniwa by revoking/banning him from code S january. This despite the fact that, since MLG Providence, it was everyones belief that naniwa had qualified for code S. Him, his team, MLG and the foreign community as a whole. GOM never took any steps to correct this belief, until the day after the match between naniwa and nestea took place.
Even more damning, 1) GOM originally called it a ban on twitter (until later removed), 2) according to some it was stated on their homepage (until later removed) 3) it was referred to as such by Tastosis 4) the rules for their cooperation with MLG implies it 5) Naniwa uncorrected referred to his spot on the media day at the blizzard cup.
For GOM to ask us to believe that Naniwa was never actually qualified for code S is to ask us to suspend all disbelief. It simply makes no sense. GOM themselves, and people working for and with them, referred to a birth spot up until one day after the match between naniwa and nestea, at which point the story was changed, and tweets (and maybe, but hard to prove, homepage-posts) were deleted. To call it anything other than a punishment is disingenuous and embarrassing.
Naniwa has owned up to his mistake. It's time for GOM to do the same.
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On December 15 2011 14:06 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 14:03 Biane wrote:On December 15 2011 14:00 iamthedave wrote:On December 15 2011 13:41 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 15 2011 13:31 iamthedave wrote:On December 15 2011 13:28 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 15 2011 13:07 Sawofhackness wrote:
Why are people still attacking this decision?
Naniwa has accepted it and apologised.
Basically the player who created this storm in a teacup has admitted he shouldn't have acted like that and has accepted the GOM/GSL decision.
Because it's one step closer to kespa and they're allowed to get away with it. If it wasn't Naniwa and someone else, which it easily could have been, GOM would have gotten much more shit. No they wouldn't. They're getting so much shit because Naniwa is the current foreign darling, and don't even attempt to pretend that he's not. A lot of the bitching is going on from people blatantly upset that their favourite player isn't going to be in Code S. If it had been... oh I don't know... Polt, hardly anyone would have cared because he's not very popular. You accuse people criticizing gom of bias when this statement in itself reeks of bias. It's ridiculous to claim that if 'any other player' had this happen to them then Gom would be getting MORE shit. This is because Naniwa is popular. If this was done to an unpopular or just a player people had no care about, nobody would give a crap. So in other words you're saying, this drama is here/so huge primarily not because GOM made a "shifty" decision (depending on your opinion) though of course this is still one of the arguing points, but because their favourite player is under fire (fan boyism whatever). It's so HUGE because of that, yes. It would be here in some form anyway, but it wouldn't be half as big. Naniwa's the big foreigner of doom right now because of his MLG performance and lots of people are hyped to see how he does in Code S. I don't think it's coincidental that almost every poster from Sweden is angry over this and there are tons of posts about how this is a slap in the face to 'the entire foreigner community' despite the fact GOM bend over backwards to make foreigners' lives easier when they go to Korea. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 14:05 Tyrant0 wrote:
No one would give a crap because GOM wouldn't be able to do it without a backlash. Community is already divided over Naniwa. Imagine if it happened to someone less controversial. Actually no, they could do it, BECAUSE NO-ONE WOULD CARE. If this was a Korean who wasn't huge in the foreigner community - like Polt or Rain or someone who's never really made an impact - there'd be tons of posts along the lines of 'seems harsh but I don't care to see him play anyway'. The foreign community would not weigh in heavily for an unpopular Korean, the way they will for a popular - though controversial - foreigner who has the complete backing of the Swedish SC2 population (by the looks of things, at least).
That's moot though. If there was a controversial disciplinary action on a foreigner in an MLG I doubt korea would give as much of a shit either. And it still doesn't justify their over the top punishments, nor is it even relevant.
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On December 15 2011 14:15 m0ck wrote:
The controversy at this point is not what was said about naniwa in the Korean broadcast. That was due to a mistranslation. But that does not leave GOM beyond reproach. One problem is, that GOM is insisting on never having given a birth to code S to naniwa in the first place, and thus not having punished naniwa by revoking/banning him from code S january. This despite the fact that, since MLG Providence, it was everyones belief that naniwa had qualified for code S. Him, his team, MLG and the foreign community as a whole. GOM never took any steps to correct this belief, until the day after the match between naniwa and nestea took place.
Even more damning, 1) GOM originally called it a ban on twitter (until later removed), 2) according to some it was stated on their homepage (until later removed) 3) it was referred to as such by Tastosis 4) the rules for their cooperation with MLG implies it 5) Naniwa uncorrected referred to his spot on the media day at the blizzard cup.
For GOM to ask us to believe that Naniwa was never actually qualified for code S is to ask us to suspend all disbelief. It simply makes no sense. GOM themselves, and people working for and with them, referred to a birth spot up until one day after the match between naniwa and nestea, at which point the story was changed, and tweets (and maybe, but hard to prove, homepage-posts) were deleted. To call it anything other than a punishment is disingenuous and embarrassing.
Naniwa has owned up to his mistake. It's time for GOM to do the same.
I agree that GOM has been shifty in its perceptions on GSL, but id rather trust GOM than Naniwa.
and it IS punishment. well-deserved punishment.
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On December 15 2011 14:08 aviator116 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 14:07 latan wrote:
talk about showing disrespect to the fans and viewers by blatantly "retconning" and lying to the fanbase. So naniwas arguable disrespect gets severely punished and GOM responds to the backlash with lies and more disresoect. 'retconning'? 'disreoect'? what in the hell is that? tell me where GOM lied. and Naniwa started all this, go blame him.
Naniwa had a code S spot and everyone understood this as such.
They take his earned spot away for breaking unwritten rules with unstated consequences.
Then they claim first sentence was not true all along after shitstorm happens.
Everyone but people wanting a crucifixion can see all this clearly. Nothing else to say.
For me this is a lot more disrespectful to the fans than what Naniwa did. It is also a lot more unprofessional since it rearranges spots for a tournament based on sympathy and not on performance.
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On December 15 2011 14:10 moonmeh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 14:08 aviator116 wrote:On December 15 2011 14:07 latan wrote:
talk about showing disrespect to the fans and viewers by blatantly "retconning" and lying to the fanbase. So naniwas arguable disrespect gets severely punished and GOM responds to the backlash with lies and more disresoect. 'retconning'? 'disreoect'? what in the hell is that? tell me where GOM lied. and Naniwa started all this, go blame him. Did you read my recap point few posts up? If you did, you will realize that while they might not be lying, there is a huge disconnect between what GOM says and what MLG said.
Well you kind of missed that even Naniwa said Gom never told him he got a code S spot, it was all MLG. Meanwhile Idra was told about his code S spot last week before any of this even happened. You're right that there's a disconnect and mis-communication somewhere but GOM never retconned anything. Heck, even if you're to look at the whole MLG-GSL exchange thing, MLG didn't hold up all of their end for Providence either so it seems like the exchange wasn't fully in effect if at all. (MMA, MC & Bomber were seeded based on their own MLG points and MVP had to fight through the open bracket. Some are also claiming Quantic paid for MVP going not MLG)
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On December 15 2011 14:11 Rexking wrote:
I like how they are always right. There i said it. Both cultures are very different from one another, but i do belive western is more open to accept other culture than they are. This is a historical issue and probably will never be fixed. I just wish a foreign would win GSL, i would pay 300 dollars just to watch it.
Gom has been more than accommodating to foreigners. This has nothing to do with accepting cultures or not. You're in Korea, playing in a Korean tournament. You're in a tournament to win 50,000 fucken dollars. If you can't show some professionalism and act like a grown up, then why the hell should you be allowed to compete? You've got a potential 50k on the line, perhaps you should act like someone deserving of that?
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did mlg pay and send 4 koreans directly into the championship bracket for MLG providence? If not, then why would naniwa get a code s spot?
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On December 15 2011 14:15 m0ck wrote:
For GOM to ask us to believe that Naniwa was never actually qualified for code S is to ask us to suspend all disbelief. It simply makes no sense. GOM themselves, and people working for and with them, referred to a birth spot up until one day after the match between naniwa and nestea, at which point the story was changed, and tweets (and maybe, but hard to prove, homepage-posts) were deleted. To call it anything other than a punishment is disingenuous and embarrassing.
It makes perfect sense because MLG didn't seed korean players directly in the championship bracket which is one of the conditions of the MLG/GSL exchange program.
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Not even an appology for having called Naniwa an "amateur prize money hunter," even though Nani appologized for his own actions.
Disgusting. Screw you Mr. Chae.
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i have a gut feeling that you carefully worded your way into blaming the loss of his seed on candidacy of a new format when really I truely believe he gained his seed from MLG. I am still against the loss of Naniwa's seed as it was "what i believe" because of pride of Gomtv taking away his rightfully earned seed. I may be wrong yes but there are just holes in this explanation of yours Gom.
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On December 15 2011 14:24 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 14:15 m0ck wrote:
For GOM to ask us to believe that Naniwa was never actually qualified for code S is to ask us to suspend all disbelief. It simply makes no sense. GOM themselves, and people working for and with them, referred to a birth spot up until one day after the match between naniwa and nestea, at which point the story was changed, and tweets (and maybe, but hard to prove, homepage-posts) were deleted. To call it anything other than a punishment is disingenuous and embarrassing. It makes perfect sends because MLG didn't seed korean players directly in the championship bracket which is one of the conditions of the MLG/GSL exchange program.
you are brilliant. i didn't think of that
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Like i said somewhere else, what would you expect gom to do? Naniwa admitted that it was disrespectful to blatantly throw a game away. Do you think a fine would be enough for gom? Giving a message that throwing games and disrespecting us can be settled with money..... Or are u guys gonna be like fked up gom format so it's their fault again? I really do not know what else could gom do to ensure it is pertinant that you do not throw games away.
Admittedly i think it's an error from both side, with a crap format and disrespectful behaviour but the least naniwa could do was to play it out standard like what destiny said
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On December 15 2011 14:24 zanmat0 wrote:
Not even an appology for having called Naniwa an "amateur prize money hunter," even though Nani appologized for his own actions.
Disgusting. Screw you Mr. Chae.
Wasn't it a mistranslation?
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EPT
