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GOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 72
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MuATaran
Canada231 Posts
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Elfian
United States28 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:03 Shortynut wrote: Proof is hard to come by unless there's a copied & pasted version on another site BEFORE the changes, but yet i actually read the first article and it mentioned the comments about "money hunter" and "unprofessional". They were retracted several hours afterwards when the extreme amount of backlash became too overwhelming. If GOM had admittedly changed their statement and shown themselves to back down, they would've been backed into a corner and forced to change their decision. There is also the fact that on the Live stream during the Ro.6 on Wednesday (i will try to be as accurate as possible) Tastosis (Tasteless specifically) announced that "GSL have decided that Naniwa's Code S seed has been revoked for the start of GSL 2012 and he will no longer be allowed to compete in February". That isn't word for word because I honestly didn't expect such a massive shitstorm from a divided community and therefore did not even try to remember it, but you MIGHT be able to find it on some tube sight or even in the VODS from Wednesday night. I think their statement will validate GOM's initial response. You actually read an article that said that huh? Hours ago the person who translated the said "article" admitted it was his mistake and he took it from a third source. | ||
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ellirc
Sweden3286 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:15 DYEAlabaster wrote: I still feel that Idra and Sen are nowhere near the level of tournament achievement that Naniwa is. But I guess there are no more deserving foreigners after Nani. This is a bit of a harsh slap on the wrists though. It's just my opinion, but I still think they should let him play. "In 2012 the GSL will have 2 Code S sponsor seeds. These seeds will be determined by outstanding results in international tournaments." I agree with you. Just spend a few minutes on LP and you will find that Gom should just confess that they want popular players from the foreign scene in order to keep the interest for GSL up. That's counting all MLG's, DH's, IPL's, NASL's. | ||
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dzogchengrey
4 Posts
As for their analogy to other professional sport and points others have made in regards to comparing esports to regular sports. There is a huge difference in my mind. This is a tournament...you are paid prize money to win. In other professional sports you are paid a salary to compete. I am focusing purely on GSL winnings, not any money players may be making streaming or through endorsements of any kind. When a NFL player takes the field he is being paid guaranteed money to play the game to his highest ability. Regardless of his teams placement in the standings, playoff hopes, whatever, he is being compensated. This is not the case in the GSL. You can say the players want to play to the best of their ability at all times...but let's be honest. If we removed the prize money would GSL be anything like it is today? As competitive? Would people uproot their lives and move to Korea just to compete on stage when they could easily show their skills to the world over a stream? If GOM wants to have their "athletes" perform to the best of their ability at all times for the audience they need to rework their system. There needs to be incentive to play at your best at all times. Either by paying these guys a salary (which will not happen), or changing the format so situations like this do not occur again. In my mind Naniwa did us a favor. He shed light on a flawed system...and hopefully now things can change. People like to mention the cultural aspect a lot. I lived in Hawaii for the majority of my life...80% of my friends growing up were Asian, (usually Japanese) and many of them were first generation. I think I have a pretty good grasp of Asian culture. Did Naniwa show disrespect? Yes. However I feel GOM is hiding behind this idea that we somehow are too ignorant to understand just how badly he "offended" them because we don't understand their culture. What it boils down to is he basically called his boss out on a national stage. Showed everyone their system is broken, which many have realized for quite a while. That in my mind is the clear reason behind their decision. What sucks how it went down...and Naniwa lost his spot because of it. But hopefully things can now change for the better. I know myself I find no joy in watching games where players "fake" it. If everyone else wants to wear rose colored glasses, say that they tried, and enjoy those games more power to them. But it is clear to me when players feel their games are meaningless, and the match quality suffers. I just hope GOM will do something to rectify this situation now so that in the future meaningless games like this do not occur in the first place. So in conclusion...both Naniwa and GOM need to grow up. But I personally expect more coming from a large corporation with 24hrs to calmly assess the situation and present a fair and CLEAR explanation behind their reasoning (e.g. not making up random rules / or changing how mlg players seed...but not sharing that info till today), than from some frustrated player who happened to make a bad brash decision. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:03 Shortynut wrote: Proof is hard to come by unless there's a copied & pasted version on another site BEFORE the changes, but yet i actually read the first article and it mentioned the comments about "money hunter" and "unprofessional". They were retracted several hours afterwards when the extreme amount of backlash became too overwhelming. If GOM had admittedly changed their statement and shown themselves to back down, they would've been backed into a corner and forced to change their decision. There is also the fact that on the Live stream during the Ro.6 on Wednesday (i will try to be as accurate as possible) Tastosis (Tasteless specifically) announced that "GSL have decided that Naniwa's Code S seed has been revoked for the start of GSL 2012 and he will no longer be allowed to compete in February". That isn't word for word because I honestly didn't expect such a massive shitstorm from a divided community and therefore did not even try to remember it, but you MIGHT be able to find it on some tube sight or even in the VODS from Wednesday night. I think their statement will validate GOM's initial response. The 'money hunter' stuff was outed as being a mistranslation of what they said. The person who posted it admitted as much and apologized profusely at least three times, and Liquid Nazgul even chimed in saying they need to look into this sort of reporting as an issue, entirely because of the shitstorm it caused. In other words, everyone was getting bent out of shape over something that was never said. | ||
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BlindSight754
Canada156 Posts
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sleigh bells
United States358 Posts
it's the nature of this league's format, which no one complained about beforehand for having the potential to create some meaningless games. of course if gom lied about not giving him a code s spot, that sucks too. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:19 z0nk wrote: However, I still believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that it is still up to the team or athletes to decide whether they want to perform good or bad, whether they want to play their A-Game or go easy on it or even withdraw. Regardless of what you believe, that's not how it works in the real world. Probe rushing is not performing good or bad, it's just spitting in the face of your opponent/tournament. http://www.mirror.co.uk/mobile/topsport/2011/11/11/jon-daly-is-banned-from-australian-golf-after-storming-off-course-115875-23552996/ | ||
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marcmtlca
Canada15 Posts
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quickclickz
United States81 Posts
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/naniwas-ascension/ I'm so happy MLG and GOMTV are on the same page. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:07 Sawofhackness wrote: Why are people still attacking this decision? Naniwa has accepted it and apologised. Basically the player who created this storm in a teacup has admitted he shouldn't have acted like that and has accepted the GOM/GSL decision. Because it's one step closer to kespa and they're allowed to get away with it. If it wasn't Naniwa and someone else, which it easily could have been, GOM would have gotten much more shit. | ||
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mufin
United States616 Posts
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:19 z0nk wrote: Sure it is great, if you try as hard as you can even if there is nothing to gain. Nobody has challenged the appreciation of such a noble gesture. However, you miss my point. You say they get called out. And that is also true. They get called out e.g. by the fans, e.g. by the sponsors. And sure, if you refuse to play a scheduled game, you get banned from the league. However, if you just perform very poorly or show no good results, there won't be additional punishment besides your future ladder placement and results (unless there is the suspicion of match-fixing). As you may recall, Naniwa did show up. He performed poorly. Therefore he ended up winning zero games and therefore making last place in the tournament. But that does not justify an additional penalty! (remember: GomTV did not even slightly accuse him of match fixing). However, I still believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that it is still up to the team or athletes to decide whether they want to perform good or bad, whether they want to play their A-Game or go easy on it or even withdraw. If Usain Bolt decides to run in zik-zak lines on the 100 m parcour, do you think he would get banned for the next olympic games? You are not allowed to throw a game He threw the game, he said it himself. Showing up in the booth and staring at the monitor is not legitimately playing. | ||
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_Depression
United States251 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:19 z0nk wrote: Sure it is great, if you try as hard as you can even if there is nothing to gain. Nobody has challenged the appreciation of such a noble gesture. However, you miss my point. You say they get called out. And that is also true. They get called out e.g. by the fans, e.g. by the sponsors. And sure, if you refuse to play a scheduled game, you get banned from the league. However, if you just perform very poorly or show no good results, there won't be additional punishment besides your future ladder placement and results (unless there is the suspicion of match-fixing). As you may recall, Naniwa did show up. He performed poorly. Therefore he ended up winning zero games and therefore making last place in the tournament. But that does not justify an additional penalty! (remember: GomTV did not even slightly accuse him of match fixing). However, I still believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that it is still up to the team or athletes to decide whether they want to perform good or bad, whether they want to play their A-Game or go easy on it or even withdraw. If Usain Bolt decides to run in zik-zak lines on the 100 m parcour, do you think he would get banned for the next olympic games? I can't agree with this point at all. There's a difference between "performing poorly" and "not trying", and what Naniwa did is certainly the latter. If I were to use baseball for my analogy again: Performing poorly could be a combination of many things. The team is out of the playoff contention, and a lot of times you'll see a team playing just to get the game over with. They play their positions, take their at-bats, but they still play. If they win, that's great, but they don't care if they lose. Hell, you'll even see teams bring up Minor League players at the end of the season, either to reward them for good play or to seriously see what talent they have. On the other hand, a team could just not try at all. Players running half-heartedly after fly balls; batters jogging down to first base or not running at all when they put the ball in play. They don't want to win, they don't even want to play. They just want to get off the field as quickly as possible. If the latter were to happen, you can expect there would be a hell of a lot of criticism both from fans and the media. I wouldn't put it past the MLB or even the team's front office to lay down some punishments. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:28 Tyrant0 wrote: Because it's one step closer to kespa and they're allowed to get away with it. If it wasn't Naniwa and someone else, which it easily could have been, GOM would have gotten much more shit. No they wouldn't. They're getting so much shit because Naniwa is the current foreign darling, and don't even attempt to pretend that he's not. A lot of the bitching is going on from people blatantly upset that their favourite player isn't going to be in Code S. If it had been... oh I don't know... Polt, hardly anyone would have cared because he's not very popular. | ||
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ellirc
Sweden3286 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:25 sleigh bells wrote: i don't know about other countries but in the US, most leagues have teams play some "meaningless games." teams might not try their absolute hardest but they still play the damn game. because people are still paying to watch. because they still need practice (like naniwa has better practice partners than nestea lol). maybe because they just like playing. even when they have an incentive to actually lose (the draft). it's the nature of this league's format, which no one complained about beforehand for having the potential to create some meaningless games. of course if gom lied about not giving him a code s spot, that sucks too. The "meaningless games" you are talking about cannot be compared to this situation at all. In football(US or EU) and hockey the matches are based on time, there is literally no way to cheese or worker rush. If there was a time limit in SC2 this whole situation would never happen at all. The nature of this league is unprecedented since for example up and down matches are never played if they bear no meaning as to who moves up or down... | ||
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Shortynut
Australia78 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:08 diophan wrote: No, they weren't retracted, it was mistranslated. The translator himself apologized. They were retracted AFTER the misinterpretation was realised DUE to the foreign community's rage at those remarks. If nobody had actually cared they probably wouldn't have gone as far as to correct it and formally apologise, but people were cut. | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On December 15 2011 13:31 ellirc wrote: The "meaningless games" you are talking about cannot be compared to this situation at all. In football(US or EU) and hockey the matches are based on time, there is literally no way to cheese or worker rush. If there was a time limit in SC2 this whole situation would never happen at all. The nature of this league is unprecedented since for example up and down matches are never played if they bear no meaning as to who moves up or down... So you think if there was an option in hockey for a team to just give up immediately, or within 5 seconds, all the fans with season tickets, everyone else who went to the game, everyone watching on television, all the sponsors, etc. would be okay with this? It has nothing to do with time... it's all about people paying to see both sides honestly compete. | ||
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[AUS]Spirit
Australia37 Posts
We are not punishing him for the action, just removing him from the top of the list (ie: taking away his code S seed) and that was the only factor to it... And also: We didnt ever explain out international seed rule (edit: so we made them up...?) What a load of crock. Naniwa is an extremely exciting foreign powerhouse and if GSL wants to be the best league in the world, then denying that player a chance that he earned is ridiculous. -1 paying viewer | ||
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