|
On December 15 2011 12:30 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:23 bobohobo wrote:
GOM never released a statement saying that Naniwa got code S, it was always MLG that said it. People should stop crapping on GOM for what MLG said. We need to wait for MLG's official position on this matter to get the whole picture. It is entirely possible that there was miscommunication between GOM and MLG.
Second, GOM released their new GSL format back in OCTOBER which clearly indicates two international seed invites. Nowhere does it mention the exchange program with MLG. In any case, I'm leaning towards GOM and MLG not communication this well enough to the community rather than GOM lying about it. lol you helpless fools. if Naniwa never really had Code S status, then why did GOM stealth change some of their previous announcements just hours ago? Huh? huh? Yeah I thought so.
Was there any proof of this ever happening? Huh? huh?
Cuz I haven't seen any yet. Screenshots would be nice.
|
On December 15 2011 12:13 DrunkenTemplar wrote:
I agree with Jinro in that Naniwa should have been docked some of the money he got paid to play in the Blizzard Cup, not punished in an unrelated tournament. I also have a problem with the fact that if Naniwa instead did a two gate proxy at nestea's ramp or a retarded cannon rush which he then put no effort in and failed, then gg'd, nothing would have happened. His intent would have been the same, he just would have hidden it or "lied" better as Tyler put it. So basically at the end of the day Naniwa is being punished for not being subtle. There are plenty of other examples at other tournaments where it's fairly obvious players aren't putting in 100% and doing stupid things in dead rubber matches (including Nestea), but they manage to put in a bare minimum of effort and they get away with it.
So basically yeah what Naniwa did was wrong, but the reaction of GOMTV didn't fit the crime imo and they have to take even a *small* modicum of responsibility for putting those players in that situation. Frankly those comments by Mr Chae were pretty unprofessional as well and just made the whole thing worse.
Also deamau, stop being a prat. Anyone who disagrees with me is uneducated? Wtf man.
You are absolutely right that nothing would have happened if Naniwa actually did a terrible two gate proxy that's guaranteed to fail. What's important is it's not always about what you do, but rather how you do it. It's the same thing with Coca incident. If you are going to pull any stunts like that, then at least do it smartly and discreetly.
I'm sure Naniwa will learn from this and become a better progamer in the future. He is still young and he will have a lot more opportunities coming his way.
|
On December 15 2011 12:41 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:30 niwhsa wrote:
I think GOM went easy on Naniwa. This is professional gaming, for professional. If Naniwa has a problem with the trounament, he should either work it out with GOM ahead of time or play like a professional or deal with it later. That is a professional way of dealing with it, not acting like kid and demanding everything go his way. Acting like that in the middle of the tournament is very disrespectful to GOM and Nestea too. Also, the sponsor and team is paying him to play games and entertain the masses. They do not pay him to entertain himself. A simple example would be working at a fast food restaurant; you are paid to work and make burger, but because Naniwa did not feel like it, he just stands next to grill, not even putting an effort. It was interesting to see that Quantic did not take any action but rather defended him (I personally have not read their statement, but noticed while reading threads), which in contrast to the Asian counterpart, personally took Coca out of Code S. Since Quantic did not step up, GOM had to. Also, I gained more respect for Boxer's and Slayer's leadership in the way they handled their situation.
Also, if you are to play in Asia, you have to understand their culture, not the other way around. Its absurd to say its unreasonable to expect professionals to behave in an appropriate manner when they are a guest at another country. Asian culture value respectful behavior which Naniwa did not display. Overall, I do not think that GOM over reacted but Naniwa should not be pursued like a witch either. Everyone makes mistake; he must learn from his mistake and make a better professional gamer out of himself.
You have got to be kidding me. You think not playing a meaningless match is comparable to not flipping burgers when you are hired as a burger flipper? This is clearly inaccurate, and biased.
Nani might think it's meaningless, but it's not meaningless to those who paid to see him play against Nestea.
|
This is an unacceptable announcement. Why was MLG reporting code S to naniwa? Why was GOM's site edited recently?
Ugh GOM is ending up looking far worse than naniwa with this type of corruption and flat out 'cover up' attempts. What happened to integrity? IF you want to boot him from his EARNED code S spot just do it, don't try and hide it and come out with lame excuses or responses that don't make any sense.
|
On December 15 2011 12:30 Slusher wrote:
People complaining about GOM charging money and them protecting the quality of the very games they are selling you in the same post is melting my brain.
LOL, pretty much sums up what I'm thinking.
|
On December 15 2011 12:38 J.E.G. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:
Not only progamers, but professional athletes in every sports prove and showcase their skill through the game and by doing so entertain their fans. Since professional athletes do this for a living, competing in tournaments is a means to make money in order to sustain themselves. While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete. This spirit entails the will to improve, work hard and try one's best no matter what. It also encompasses a mutual respect between those who share the title of professional athlete, which consequently leads to a certain code of professional conduct. It is this underlying competitive spirit, which goes beyond and is unrelated to any amount of prize money, of every professional athlete that touches and entertains many fans. We believe that the reason why so many people are such avid fans of baseball, soccer or e-sports has next to nothing to do with money. Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities. This argument is irrelevant and invalid, yet seems to be that basis of GOMtv's decision to eject Naniwa from the first Code S season of 2012. Athletes get paid significantly more money that pro-gamers and are not punished nearly as severely as Naniwa has been. Professional athletes get paid exponentially more money than any sc2 pro-gamer does (i say sc2 b/c Flash is balling out of control), not only because of their skill level, but also to appear professional in regards to the tremendous amount of media exposure they endure during both the season and off-season of said sport. Imagine being any player that has to go into the press room after a close loss to a rival and give a speech about why they lost, what it means for the team, do they suck now, etc. The reason these professional athletes can usually keep there cool and address the criticism being thrown into their face by reporters and fans is that they get paid millions of dollars to do it. It is not some unwritten rule that all professional athletes must be gentlemen and sportsmanlike... its in their contract to be so. Naniwa has earned $57,910. When one of these athletes loses there cool and goes off on a reporter, does something flagrant on the court/field, or publicly insults someone, the punishment comes in the form of a fine and some backlash from the media and fan base, which is essentially a slap on the wrist, and is totally ok. The athlete makes an apology, and life goes on. Only in the case of physically breaking the rules, such as a purposeful flagrant foul in basketball, or some illegal hits in football, do players get suspended from the actual game. Naniwa deserves a slap on the wrist for his brash behavior and nothing more. Taking away his chances at competing in Code S, which is now a multiple month long tournament, is like suspending an NBA player for half a season for cussing out a ref, except in this case Naniwa didn't cuss out anyone. He probe rushed to get out of a meaningless game. Unless it is expressly written out in a contract that for Naniwa to be eligible to win the amount of money being competed for in Blizzcup that he must be professional and play any meaningless games, even if its a result of going 0-3 in a tournament he has been training extremely hard for, he should not be revoked that chance based on conceding the game. As far as professionalism goes, GOMtv deciding to just now come out with some new rule about Code S being invite-only, and that Naniwa had not earned his Code S placement, but had rather been invited to participate, is very unprofessional and shows GOM, as a business, lacks transparency in the ways it deals with its players. If I were a korean player competing for spot on Code S, or if I felt I should've been invited to Blizzcup over Naniwa, I would be frustrated about Naniwa's decision making, sure, but I would be very skeptical of any future business dealings with GOMtv.
So basically what you are saying, is that if you get paid more money you should then act more professional, but if you get paid less you have a right to spit in the face of the corporation who's event you are participating in then? I implore you to go down to McDonalds right now and tell the people working minimum wage that they don't have to be nice to customers and act professionally because they get paid so little that it doesn't matter if they act professionally.
Great argument.
|
On December 15 2011 12:43 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:38 J.E.G. wrote:On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:
Not only progamers, but professional athletes in every sports prove and showcase their skill through the game and by doing so entertain their fans. Since professional athletes do this for a living, competing in tournaments is a means to make money in order to sustain themselves. While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete. This spirit entails the will to improve, work hard and try one's best no matter what. It also encompasses a mutual respect between those who share the title of professional athlete, which consequently leads to a certain code of professional conduct. It is this underlying competitive spirit, which goes beyond and is unrelated to any amount of prize money, of every professional athlete that touches and entertains many fans. We believe that the reason why so many people are such avid fans of baseball, soccer or e-sports has next to nothing to do with money. Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities. This argument is irrelevant and invalid, yet seems to be that basis of GOMtv's decision to eject Naniwa from the first Code S season of 2012. Athletes get paid significantly more money that pro-gamers and are not punished nearly as severely as Naniwa has been. Professional athletes get paid exponentially more money than any sc2 pro-gamer does (i say sc2 b/c Flash is balling out of control), not only because of their skill level, but also to appear professional in regards to the tremendous amount of media exposure they endure during both the season and off-season of said sport. Imagine being any player that has to go into the press room after a close loss to a rival and give a speech about why they lost, what it means for the team, do they suck now, etc. Explain to me exactly how much money someone has to be be paid to do what they're paid to do. Also cussing out a ref is not at all the same as throwing a game.
It's also pretty odd. Didn't some MMA fighter get fired for saying something stupid on twitter recently?
What about the example of the golfer who just went onto the course and launched all his balls into water because his match was 'meaningless' and the PGA promptly banned him?
Gom are setting standards. If they want to be the premiere SC2 tournament, that's what they need to do, and that's why they've done this. They murdered SlayersCoCa when he threw a match (though that was worse, yes), they punished Choya for doing something that was only peripherally related to the GSL and they banned Rain just because he didn't turn up to an event when he was meant to.
Is SC2 an e-sport, or just a silly videogame people happen to get paid money for?
|
Yeah I think GOM would be better off taking money from naniwa instead of kicking him out of code S. A lot of people still want to watch him play and we all know he wont do this again.
|
On December 15 2011 12:45 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:41 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 12:30 niwhsa wrote:
I think GOM went easy on Naniwa. This is professional gaming, for professional. If Naniwa has a problem with the trounament, he should either work it out with GOM ahead of time or play like a professional or deal with it later. That is a professional way of dealing with it, not acting like kid and demanding everything go his way. Acting like that in the middle of the tournament is very disrespectful to GOM and Nestea too. Also, the sponsor and team is paying him to play games and entertain the masses. They do not pay him to entertain himself. A simple example would be working at a fast food restaurant; you are paid to work and make burger, but because Naniwa did not feel like it, he just stands next to grill, not even putting an effort. It was interesting to see that Quantic did not take any action but rather defended him (I personally have not read their statement, but noticed while reading threads), which in contrast to the Asian counterpart, personally took Coca out of Code S. Since Quantic did not step up, GOM had to. Also, I gained more respect for Boxer's and Slayer's leadership in the way they handled their situation.
Also, if you are to play in Asia, you have to understand their culture, not the other way around. Its absurd to say its unreasonable to expect professionals to behave in an appropriate manner when they are a guest at another country. Asian culture value respectful behavior which Naniwa did not display. Overall, I do not think that GOM over reacted but Naniwa should not be pursued like a witch either. Everyone makes mistake; he must learn from his mistake and make a better professional gamer out of himself.
You have got to be kidding me. You think not playing a meaningless match is comparable to not flipping burgers when you are hired as a burger flipper? This is clearly inaccurate, and biased. Nani might think it's meaningless, but it's not meaningless to those who paid to see him play against Nestea.
You mean its not meaningless to you? A lot of people thought it was meaningless, and a lot of his fans understand where hes coming from. But a couple of people who DONT care to see his games want his head on a pike because he offended the hypersensitive koreans, therefore he should be banned from GSL.
|
Funny how Naniwa would still be in Code S had he just nexus first... funny how politically correct Starcraft tries to be.
|
On December 15 2011 12:48 Share_The_Land wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:38 J.E.G. wrote:On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Not only progamers, but professional athletes in every sports prove and showcase their skill through the game and by doing so entertain their fans. Since professional athletes do this for a living, competing in tournaments is a means to make money in order to sustain themselves. While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete. This spirit entails the will to improve, work hard and try one's best no matter what. It also encompasses a mutual respect between those who share the title of professional athlete, which consequently leads to a certain code of professional conduct. It is this underlying competitive spirit, which goes beyond and is unrelated to any amount of prize money, of every professional athlete that touches and entertains many fans. We believe that the reason why so many people are such avid fans of baseball, soccer or e-sports has next to nothing to do with money. Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities. This argument is irrelevant and invalid, yet seems to be that basis of GOMtv's decision to eject Naniwa from the first Code S season of 2012. Athletes get paid significantly more money that pro-gamers and are not punished nearly as severely as Naniwa has been. Professional athletes get paid exponentially more money than any sc2 pro-gamer does (i say sc2 b/c Flash is balling out of control), not only because of their skill level, but also to appear professional in regards to the tremendous amount of media exposure they endure during both the season and off-season of said sport. Imagine being any player that has to go into the press room after a close loss to a rival and give a speech about why they lost, what it means for the team, do they suck now, etc. The reason these professional athletes can usually keep there cool and address the criticism being thrown into their face by reporters and fans is that they get paid millions of dollars to do it. It is not some unwritten rule that all professional athletes must be gentlemen and sportsmanlike... its in their contract to be so. Naniwa has earned $57,910. When one of these athletes loses there cool and goes off on a reporter, does something flagrant on the court/field, or publicly insults someone, the punishment comes in the form of a fine and some backlash from the media and fan base, which is essentially a slap on the wrist, and is totally ok. The athlete makes an apology, and life goes on. Only in the case of physically breaking the rules, such as a purposeful flagrant foul in basketball, or some illegal hits in football, do players get suspended from the actual game. Naniwa deserves a slap on the wrist for his brash behavior and nothing more. Taking away his chances at competing in Code S, which is now a multiple month long tournament, is like suspending an NBA player for half a season for cussing out a ref, except in this case Naniwa didn't cuss out anyone. He probe rushed to get out of a meaningless game. Unless it is expressly written out in a contract that for Naniwa to be eligible to win the amount of money being competed for in Blizzcup that he must be professional and play any meaningless games, even if its a result of going 0-3 in a tournament he has been training extremely hard for, he should not be revoked that chance based on conceding the game. As far as professionalism goes, GOMtv deciding to just now come out with some new rule about Code S being invite-only, and that Naniwa had not earned his Code S placement, but had rather been invited to participate, is very unprofessional and shows GOM, as a business, lacks transparency in the ways it deals with its players. If I were a korean player competing for spot on Code S, or if I felt I should've been invited to Blizzcup over Naniwa, I would be frustrated about Naniwa's decision making, sure, but I would be very skeptical of any future business dealings with GOMtv. So basically what you are saying, is that if you get paid more money you should then act more professional, but if you get paid less you have a right to spit in the face of the corporation who's event you are participating in then? I implore you to go down to McDonalds right now and tell the people working minimum wage that they don't have to be nice to customers and act professionally because they get paid so little that it doesn't matter if they act professionally. Great argument.
No, what I am saying is that a part of the enormous salaries that professional athletes gets paid is EXPRESSLY written out to make them act professionally in the eyes of the media. Unless that has been written into any contracts Naniwa has entered with GOM, acting unprofessional should not be punishable by the tournament. I'm sure something similar exists in his contract with Quantic, hence his apology, which seems to be authentic and transparent.
Edited for quotes/spoiler tags. Also, try reading the whole post before reducing it into some basic form you want the other side to have so you can argue better.
|
So naniwa didnt earn his spot from providence now? I don't appreciate this at all gom, and will no longer be buying ur tickets. I'm glad i refrained from buying a yearly pass. This shows how little respect you have for your players, which make the bussienss you run.
|
On December 15 2011 12:50 Tyrant0 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:45 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 12:41 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 12:30 niwhsa wrote:
I think GOM went easy on Naniwa. This is professional gaming, for professional. If Naniwa has a problem with the trounament, he should either work it out with GOM ahead of time or play like a professional or deal with it later. That is a professional way of dealing with it, not acting like kid and demanding everything go his way. Acting like that in the middle of the tournament is very disrespectful to GOM and Nestea too. Also, the sponsor and team is paying him to play games and entertain the masses. They do not pay him to entertain himself. A simple example would be working at a fast food restaurant; you are paid to work and make burger, but because Naniwa did not feel like it, he just stands next to grill, not even putting an effort. It was interesting to see that Quantic did not take any action but rather defended him (I personally have not read their statement, but noticed while reading threads), which in contrast to the Asian counterpart, personally took Coca out of Code S. Since Quantic did not step up, GOM had to. Also, I gained more respect for Boxer's and Slayer's leadership in the way they handled their situation.
Also, if you are to play in Asia, you have to understand their culture, not the other way around. Its absurd to say its unreasonable to expect professionals to behave in an appropriate manner when they are a guest at another country. Asian culture value respectful behavior which Naniwa did not display. Overall, I do not think that GOM over reacted but Naniwa should not be pursued like a witch either. Everyone makes mistake; he must learn from his mistake and make a better professional gamer out of himself.
You have got to be kidding me. You think not playing a meaningless match is comparable to not flipping burgers when you are hired as a burger flipper? This is clearly inaccurate, and biased. Nani might think it's meaningless, but it's not meaningless to those who paid to see him play against Nestea. You mean its not meaningless to you? A lot of people thought it was meaningless, and a lot of his fans understand where hes coming from. But a couple of people who DONT care to see his games want his head on a pike because he offended the hypersensitive koreans, therefore he should be banned from GSL.
You seem to have missed that the community is about 50/50 split on this issue. It's not a couple of people at all, and tons of people were incredibly pissed in the LR thread, with dozens of comments about them having stayed up late JUST to watch Naniwa vs Nestea.
|
On December 15 2011 12:50 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:43 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 12:38 J.E.G. wrote:On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Not only progamers, but professional athletes in every sports prove and showcase their skill through the game and by doing so entertain their fans. Since professional athletes do this for a living, competing in tournaments is a means to make money in order to sustain themselves. While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete. This spirit entails the will to improve, work hard and try one's best no matter what. It also encompasses a mutual respect between those who share the title of professional athlete, which consequently leads to a certain code of professional conduct. It is this underlying competitive spirit, which goes beyond and is unrelated to any amount of prize money, of every professional athlete that touches and entertains many fans. We believe that the reason why so many people are such avid fans of baseball, soccer or e-sports has next to nothing to do with money. Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities.
This argument is irrelevant and invalid, yet seems to be that basis of GOMtv's decision to eject Naniwa from the first Code S season of 2012. Athletes get paid significantly more money that pro-gamers and are not punished nearly as severely as Naniwa has been. Professional athletes get paid exponentially more money than any sc2 pro-gamer does (i say sc2 b/c Flash is balling out of control), not only because of their skill level, but also to appear professional in regards to the tremendous amount of media exposure they endure during both the season and off-season of said sport. Imagine being any player that has to go into the press room after a close loss to a rival and give a speech about why they lost, what it means for the team, do they suck now, etc. Explain to me exactly how much money someone has to be be paid to do what they're paid to do. Also cussing out a ref is not at all the same as throwing a game. It's also pretty odd. Didn't some MMA fighter get fired for saying something stupid on twitter recently? What about the example of the golfer who just went onto the course and launched all his balls into water because his match was 'meaningless' and the PGA promptly banned him?Gom are setting standards. If they want to be the premiere SC2 tournament, that's what they need to do, and that's why they've done this. They murdered SlayersCoCa when he threw a match (though that was worse, yes), they punished Choya for doing something that was only peripherally related to the GSL and they banned Rain just because he didn't turn up to an event when he was meant to. Is SC2 an e-sport, or just a silly videogame people happen to get paid money for?
The golf analogy is bad because they are still competing for cash down even if they are very far out of first place. Most of the guys at the bottom aren't making dick for money don't go in with hopes of winning the thing, only to get crushed.
EDIT: Misread your post, however, keep in mind Naniwa asked permission to forfeit and was refused this request. I'm sure if this golfer had requested, the tournament organizers would have obliged him.
|
lol @ the drama queens trying to keep this story going by slinging mud at Gom. It's like you're in denial that the official announcements made your earlier drama look retarded, and now you're trying to legitimize that drama by fishing for new "issues." People are using the words corruption, liar, etc all based on something they heard which is that Gom changed its website. Let's see if we can think of anything else we recently heard that turned out not to be true. Oh, that's right - Mr. Chae's supposed quote ending with "money hunting amateur." If you really are calling GOM corrupt and dishonest given the information available to you, you're not smart. There, I said it. Someone needed to.
|
Naniwa's gesture was genuine. GomTV answer seems false. The world is false.
Now I say: sometime I prefer a genuine shitty game, than a false simulated game.
Naniwa was punished for his genuineness, in one single match that was useless for Naniwa and Nestea, and for most fans too. A lot of players said that it was a not big deal, SC2 should to remain mainly a game, and that particular game was not so important because Naniwa and Nestea are both out of the games.
Maybe for GomTV SC2 is not a game, but surely it's a great business, and when they say: "While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete.". Nice Words, but sincere?
Well. I can say, for sure, Naniwa has a sincere competitive spirit, and he is a professional athlete and for sure is one of the best player in Europe. The reaction of GOM was exagerated in that circumstance, but it will be difficult they admit their mistakes.
|
On December 15 2011 12:54 J.E.G. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:50 iamthedave wrote:On December 15 2011 12:43 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 12:38 J.E.G. wrote:On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Not only progamers, but professional athletes in every sports prove and showcase their skill through the game and by doing so entertain their fans. Since professional athletes do this for a living, competing in tournaments is a means to make money in order to sustain themselves. While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete. This spirit entails the will to improve, work hard and try one's best no matter what. It also encompasses a mutual respect between those who share the title of professional athlete, which consequently leads to a certain code of professional conduct. It is this underlying competitive spirit, which goes beyond and is unrelated to any amount of prize money, of every professional athlete that touches and entertains many fans. We believe that the reason why so many people are such avid fans of baseball, soccer or e-sports has next to nothing to do with money. Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities.
This argument is irrelevant and invalid, yet seems to be that basis of GOMtv's decision to eject Naniwa from the first Code S season of 2012. Athletes get paid significantly more money that pro-gamers and are not punished nearly as severely as Naniwa has been. Professional athletes get paid exponentially more money than any sc2 pro-gamer does (i say sc2 b/c Flash is balling out of control), not only because of their skill level, but also to appear professional in regards to the tremendous amount of media exposure they endure during both the season and off-season of said sport. Imagine being any player that has to go into the press room after a close loss to a rival and give a speech about why they lost, what it means for the team, do they suck now, etc. Explain to me exactly how much money someone has to be be paid to do what they're paid to do. Also cussing out a ref is not at all the same as throwing a game. It's also pretty odd. Didn't some MMA fighter get fired for saying something stupid on twitter recently? What about the example of the golfer who just went onto the course and launched all his balls into water because his match was 'meaningless' and the PGA promptly banned him?Gom are setting standards. If they want to be the premiere SC2 tournament, that's what they need to do, and that's why they've done this. They murdered SlayersCoCa when he threw a match (though that was worse, yes), they punished Choya for doing something that was only peripherally related to the GSL and they banned Rain just because he didn't turn up to an event when he was meant to. Is SC2 an e-sport, or just a silly videogame people happen to get paid money for? The golf analogy is bad because they are still competing for cash down even if they are very far out of first place. Most of the guys at the bottom aren't making dick for money don't go in with hopes of winning the thing, only to get crushed. EDIT: Misread your post, however, keep in mind Naniwa asked permission to forfeit and was refused this request. I'm sure if this golfer had requested, the tournament organizers would have obliged him
But Naniwa is still getting paid. It's not like he was in the position where he gets no money unless he gets out of his group. Or are we now saying it's acceptable for players to do the bare minimum they need to in order to get paid and can phone in literally everything that doesn't directly result in money?
And how does that make the golfing analogy bad? Surely if the guy was playing for money him choosing to lose is punishment enough, right? He wiill earn less, those who choose to play will earn more. Why is it necessary to ban him?
Their reason is identical to Gom's. That's not the sort of play they want to promote on their tour.
Edit: Incorrect. Naniwa was asked by JP directly on Live on Three if he asked to forfeit the match and Naniwa said he never did. He never approached anybody from Gom at any point.
|
We're not smart because we realize GOMtv trying to look like the good guy?
GOM.tv doesn't want to say they punished Naniwa for his action by taking his code S spot away. This clearly would've pissed off other while made others happy.. none some of their viewers. Instead they opted to say "he's moved down the list." They are once again trying to be politically correct and take the middle path by saying they aren't directly punishing Naniwa but merely a slap on the wrist by saying he never earned his code S spot, when everyone at MLG thought he did (and by everyone I mean the staff... not the viewers).
I really hate how starcraft has to be so fucking politically correct. It's stupid
|
On December 15 2011 12:56 GodZo wrote:
Naniwa's gesture was genuine. GomTV answer seems false. The world is false.
Now I say: sometime I prefer a genuine shitty game, than a false simulated game.
Naniwa was punished for his genuineness, in one single match that was useless for Naniwa and Nestea, and for most fans too. A lot of players said that it was a not big deal, SC2 should to remain mainly a game, and that particular game was not so important because Naniwa and Nestea are both out of the games.
Maybe for GomTV SC2 is not a game, but surely it's a great business, and when they say: "While money is an essential factor in a professional athlete’s life, it is the sincere competitive spirit that enables a mere athlete to become a professional athlete.". Nice Words, but sincere?
Well. I can say, for sure, Naniwa has a sincere competitive spirit, and he is a professional athlete and for sure is one of the best player in Europe. The reaction of GOM was exagerated in that circumstance, but it will be difficult they admit their mistakes.
You do realize that it is not all about Naniwa, right? His actions affected other people in a negative way.
|
On December 15 2011 12:52 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:50 Tyrant0 wrote:On December 15 2011 12:45 diophan wrote:On December 15 2011 12:41 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 12:30 niwhsa wrote:
I think GOM went easy on Naniwa. This is professional gaming, for professional. If Naniwa has a problem with the trounament, he should either work it out with GOM ahead of time or play like a professional or deal with it later. That is a professional way of dealing with it, not acting like kid and demanding everything go his way. Acting like that in the middle of the tournament is very disrespectful to GOM and Nestea too. Also, the sponsor and team is paying him to play games and entertain the masses. They do not pay him to entertain himself. A simple example would be working at a fast food restaurant; you are paid to work and make burger, but because Naniwa did not feel like it, he just stands next to grill, not even putting an effort. It was interesting to see that Quantic did not take any action but rather defended him (I personally have not read their statement, but noticed while reading threads), which in contrast to the Asian counterpart, personally took Coca out of Code S. Since Quantic did not step up, GOM had to. Also, I gained more respect for Boxer's and Slayer's leadership in the way they handled their situation.
Also, if you are to play in Asia, you have to understand their culture, not the other way around. Its absurd to say its unreasonable to expect professionals to behave in an appropriate manner when they are a guest at another country. Asian culture value respectful behavior which Naniwa did not display. Overall, I do not think that GOM over reacted but Naniwa should not be pursued like a witch either. Everyone makes mistake; he must learn from his mistake and make a better professional gamer out of himself.
You have got to be kidding me. You think not playing a meaningless match is comparable to not flipping burgers when you are hired as a burger flipper? This is clearly inaccurate, and biased. Nani might think it's meaningless, but it's not meaningless to those who paid to see him play against Nestea. You mean its not meaningless to you? A lot of people thought it was meaningless, and a lot of his fans understand where hes coming from. But a couple of people who DONT care to see his games want his head on a pike because he offended the hypersensitive koreans, therefore he should be banned from GSL. You seem to have missed that the community is about 50/50 split on this issue. It's not a couple of people at all, and tons of people were incredibly pissed in the LR thread, with dozens of comments about them having stayed up late JUST to watch Naniwa vs Nestea.
The community is split 50/50 on "Was Naniwa wrong?"
The 50% that think that Naniwa was wrong, were split into many categories. "He was wrong, but GOM is too harsh for a first offense.", "He was wrong, but it was emotional, he should apologise and it will not happen again." "Yes, BAN HIM! PITCHFORK!"
So, no, it's not 50/50 on "Is the punishement too harsh?"... more like "75/25"... Well, at least it was not in the poll that I saw.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
